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2023-06-09, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I will bet two delicious fruit pies (one apple and one blueberry) that the potential for the Snarl to spare someone from an unpleasant afterlife by ending their existence entirely...
1. Will be explicitly brought up, but...
2. Will not actually happen to Xykon, Redcloak, or Vaarsuvius. (I'm not quite willing to bet on Belkar.)
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2023-06-09, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2023-06-09, 07:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I'll add a Hubig's Peach that only Belkar is actually subjected to that fate, though others may be threatened.
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2023-06-09, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I posted this one before, but will make a prediction here too.
Snarl threat will end by pacifying him, not eradicating or locking in more secure prison.
Author claims that no one is born evil, so why Snarl should be an exception? Isn't peace between those usually considered good and those considered evil was the main idea of the comic all along?
Another question is HOW to pacify him.
This is up to the author.Last edited by Edreyn; 2023-06-09 at 09:10 AM.
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2023-06-09, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2023-06-09, 09:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
No, Xykon is obviously evil and beyond redemption - it WAS his own choice. But we, as readers, never saw anything about Snarl directly, and not from words of others. So can't be sure about him.
We already know that Snarl or his "pocket dimension" is NOT void of pure non-existence, as we could expect from how gods describe him. Maybe his all consuming nature is also not really that... all consuming?Last edited by Edreyn; 2023-06-09 at 09:46 AM.
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2023-06-09, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
While I support every god-eating horror's right to confuse the alignment system by virtue of its alien nature, it's on-panel killing a few people for no reason other than being too close to a gate.
If it's irrational enough, there's an argument to make that it lacks moral agency and therefore can be destroyed or imprisoned without moral consequences.
OTOH, I'm not taking the bet.TinyMushroom drew my avatarSpoiler: A shaggy dog storyAn evil sorcerer in command of a dark cult is trying to unleash a god-killing abomination more real than the gods themselves. At his side, yellow eyes revealed a Haunter of the Dark. The evil sorcerer ordered it to kill.
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2023-06-09, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
If you look at how many millions of worlds which were made and subsequently destroyed - as Thor showed to Minrah and Durkon - the implication is that the Snarl is millions of years old. It potentially can learn. If what it learned was to imitate the various gods, then why could it not, eventually, figure out how to make its own little world? Plausible.
Author claims that no one is born evil, so why Snarl should be an exception?
Originally Posted by Thor
The Snarl's instinct is to lash out, and that is due to it being a manifestation of pointless conflict.
I find a useful parallelism there, thematically.
Another question is HOW to pacify him.
If it could be reasoned with, would not the gods have figured out how to do that after these many millenia?
I am reaching back into memory, but IIRC Rich seems to have gotten the initial idea for the Snarl from pointless arguments and conflict that happened at some of his RL gaming tables.
I am sure that our most erudite banana has a link. (I am not near my OotS books at the moment).
FWIW: I don't.
He's the BBEG, and genre conventions need to him to be defeated.
My bet is that Roy ends him, using his grandfather's sword.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2023-06-09 at 10:31 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2023-06-09, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
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2023-06-09, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
A few dozen of the least reasonable and able to negotiate characters in the comic figure out how to do something there's no indication they tried when they can't even agree to negotiate with the Dark One? I'd say no.
I am reaching back into memory, but IIRC Rich seems to have modeled the snarl around pointless arguments and conflict that happened at some of his RL gaming tables.
I think there is an excellent chance there will be no negotiation with the Snarl because the Snarl isn't actually sapient.
The Snarl's alignment.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2023-06-09, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
That's an open question, but if we take the Kyle Reese description of the Terminator (first move) as a model, it fits well enough.
FWIW, don't you have to be sapient to have emotions? That may not be answerable, as I am sure that opinions vary on that.
There are a variety of monsters in D&D (at least in previous editions, which Rich is familiar with) who are what Gary Gygax referred to as having "alignment, Hungry", (Can't remember if that was in Dragon Mag or the AD&D 1e DMG)
In this category the Snarl might fit, if we add "Angry" to "Hungry".Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2023-06-09 at 10:40 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2023-06-09, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Did anyone here read "The Ickabog" by Rowling? It's all about creature born with anger from conflicts of those around. Born cruel and evil, not by choice but because those creatures are born with emotions of those nearby. But even in this case, they can be helped. They will not really become good, but they can become not dangerous to others.
Last edited by Edreyn; 2023-06-09 at 10:39 AM.
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2023-06-09, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2023-06-09, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2023-06-09, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I stand corrected on Rich saying something along those lines.
I do not think that really has much to say about whether it will be reasoned with (in either direction), any more than Vaarsuvius' mass-murder having stood in for players who insist on the validity of racial morality, who are always with us, means that Vaarsuvius must go to their grave unwilling to acknowledge wrongness.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2023-06-09, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
V has already admitted to being wrong, and was - on screen - horrified at how very wrong that choice was.
V has also - on screen- indicated a desire, even if it's impossible or nearly so, of attempting to make restitution.
Which leaves me with: what was your aim in writing that?
As to 'you can't negotiate with the Snarl' ... given what has been shown on screen so far, that's a pretty safe bet, even if Belkar's point in strip 900 remains valid.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2023-06-09 at 11:27 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2023-06-09, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
So, goblins are not necessarily evil, beholders are not necessarily evil, lizardmen, dragons and so on, but snarls are?
How would you identify the difference?
Snarl killed innocents? So did Redcloak. He is just a mortal, but he caused death to countless people, even to his own.
You say Snarl can't control his actions because he is born from evil emotions, but Redcloak can - and he willingly chooses slaughter.
Kobolds become adventurers and join "not-evil-by-default-creatures" parties, vampires work as court advisors, bugbears are cruel to visitors but live far enough to not cause trouble, but goblins willingly choose to enslave and slaughter the whole huge city of humans!
But Redcloak isn't all this bad and deserves a chance, maybe through negotiations, but Snarl? No way, he is a bad guy, he must die!
No, where is the difference?
The Snarl is a unique creature, so much unique that he can't be compared to others?
If it is not judgement by race then what it is?
If one can negotiate with Redcloak, why negotiating with Snarl is impossible?
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2023-06-09, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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- Ottawa, Canada
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I’m don’t think the Snarl is sapient enough to be negotiated with, but I’d say there’s a decent probability that the resolution of the story will involve it being…un-Snarled in some fashion (whether that means it ceasing to exist or it no longer being destructive) rather than just being locked in a more secure cage.
I’d see it as more akin to a hurricane than a person.Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2023-06-09 at 11:20 AM.
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2023-06-09, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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- Israel
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2023-06-09, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2023-06-09 at 12:23 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2023-06-09, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
Xykons are not necessarily Evil, but you're not expecting anyone to try to negotiate with him. Not that characters in-comic haven't thought of it.
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2023-06-09, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
You might be interested in this:Your call how to apply "if it exists at all", of course.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2023-06-13, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
9 quatloos, 13 internets, and 666 gps in favor of the identity of The Vessel being the balor that Vaarsuvius stoned and Elan turned into Therkla's headstone. Hilarity ensues when Elan has to explain what the scar on the balor's chest means while attempting to keep it and The Artifact from turning them into Stone-Ground Adventurer Pulp, (made with Soylent Green.)
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2023-06-13, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
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2023-06-13, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
…partly, I assume, because there's, like, a 0% chance the island devil is a balor.
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2023-06-13, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
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2023-06-13, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
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2023-06-13, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
I seem to remember there being some general idea the island devil was a Pit Fiend, but I looked it up and Pit Fiends are only Large. Whatever that is is clearly much, much bigger.
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2023-06-13, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)
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2023-06-13, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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