Erfworld 61 - Page 55

[SteveMB]

This business with leveling is presumably the reason hit and run tactics are uncommon in Erfworld, and why it was so unexpected: if warlords are as important as we suppose, it is crucial to have them level up during a campaign.

In other words, this Erfworld way of war (focus on the technical victories, since they are important) is not just because of abstract victory ratings or whatever, but the tradition has an actual practical reason for existing.

Good point. Finding out that what initially looked like total stupidity is actually based on some foundation, albeit one that probably shouldn't be the guiding factor in the current situation, makes the characters more believable. (The same point occurred to me when the issue of "upkeep cost" was raised -- Stanley's reluctance to spend the full 500k and empty the treasury was more rational in that light.)

In real life, people don't present their successes in such a back handed way. But for conveying the story to us, it was fun to draw out and entangle the delivery so much.

I can see Parson doing it, though -- caught up in the moment, and probably influenced by longtime habits where gaming bragging rights (which are enhanced by drawing out the story for maximum drama) are the one big payoff in his life.

Wanda gave Parson that *warn* look after he started; perhaps she realized what he was doing and thought it was a foolish risk (which is true, really, but he did get away with it).

[Alex Star]

Why on erf is everyone calling Parson a Sith Lord? That makes no sense at all.. if this was to be comparable to the Star Wars Universe Parson would be a heck of a lot closer to being a Jedi than anything else.

Parsons tactics so far have been to eliminate his enemies ability to wage war, not eliminate his enemies themselves.

Up to this point Parson seems to be a rather caring individual compared to the rest of the Erfworld Society. Up until this point he has treated everyone as an equal.

Furthermore we are assuming that Stanley is on the "Evil" side, Parson assumed that as well. And everyone seems ready to just assume that since Stanley is a jerk that he's the bad guy. The inhabitants of Gobwin Knob seem to be a heck of a lot closer to the "Rebel Alliance" than the Coalition of All the Armed Forces in the World which are being led by a Ansom who resents the fact that Stanley even has his position since he wasn't born into it. That screams "Evil Empire".

You can't even make the statement that "Undead" Have anything to do with being good or evil since they are present on both sides of the battle.

For now I think Parsons actions are not only justified but Good Aligned as well. Bad guys fire at their opponents hearts... good guys shoot the gun out of the bad guys hand.

[Scientivore]

I wonder whether Battle Bears are siege units or whether the dwagons destroyed about 50 towers, catapults etc...

1. We haven't seen any catapults (have we) which would be vital when you want to breach GK's walls (unless you have titanium elementals ).

2. In that battle scene with Webinar on his "Scouting/Rescuing Mission" the Battle Bears throw rocks. They could be some kind of "short range artillery".

So "about 50 siege units" might also include the Battle Bears. Otherwise, Parson would have talked about "siege engines" or "machines".

Opinions on that?

Yes, I thought that the Cloth Golems might be some kind of artillery when they first appeared because of their baskets full of boulders, not exactly normal ammo. Then, when Parson sent the dwagons after the towers and the bears, it seemed pretty clear that they were some of the siege units that his plan was targeting.

[erewhon]

"For an opener."


Heeheehee!


Parson has nearly perfect battlespace awareness. Ansom is mired in the fog of war.

Parson has powerful combat units with HUGE movement potential, both in quality and quantity(lots of flight). Ansom has weaker units, that are either strong in combat or fast in movement, not both.

Parson has perfect command, control, and communications! (HOLY COW) Ansom...doesn't.


Parson is going to hang his "Dwagon Death Star" out over the trees, moving it between turns, and he is going to grind and grind and grind and grind at Anson's forces.

He can keep that up essentially forever, thanks to the Dwagon's toughness and the "heal back to full every day" rule.

Ansom's only move is to rush the walls and try to surge through, taking out the city and stopping Parson that way. THAT is why losing all that seige is so huge.

I doubt anybody realizes this yet, not even Wanda or Vinnie.

Well, Parson realizes it. :D Time to reduce your foe in detail.

Oh, this is gonna be good. What is Jillian gonna do when Parson starts eating Ansom's lunch for him? What is Wanda gonna do when she realizes just what is going on? What is Charlie gonna do when he realizes exactly what he just signed up to face? What is Vinnie gonna do when he realizes Ansom is in deep, deep trouble? What is the coalition gonna do when they realize they're getting annihilated to no gain?

What is Stanly gonna do when he realizes just what Parson really is?

What is Parson gonna do?

Squeee!!! I can't wait! :D

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Why on erf is everyone calling Parson a Sith Lord? That makes no sense at all.. if this was to be comparable to the Star Wars Universe Parson would be a heck of a lot closer to being a Jedi than anything else.

Parsons tactics so far have been to eliminate his enemies ability to wage war, not eliminate his enemies themselves.

Up to this point Parson seems to be a rather caring individual compared to the rest of the Erfworld Society. Up until this point he has treated everyone as an equal.

Furthermore we are assuming that Stanley is on the "Evil" side, Parson assumed that as well. And everyone seems ready to just assume that since Stanley is a jerk that he's the bad guy. The inhabitants of Gobwin Knob seem to be a heck of a lot closer to the "Rebel Alliance" than the Coalition of All the Armed Forces in the World which are being led by a Ansom who resents the fact that Stanley even has his position since he wasn't born into it. That screams "Evil Empire".

You can't even make the statement that "Undead" Have anything to do with being good or evil since they are present on both sides of the battle.

For now I think Parsons actions are not only justified but Good Aligned as well. Bad guys fire at their opponents hearts... good guys shoot the gun out of the bad guys hand.

There are no undead on ansom side. They have healers...
oh, and everyone in the world has collided into jetstone alliance to stop stanley from conquering the arkentools, and the rest of the world after it. Oh, and Stanley is not only a jerk, but an overlord through regicide.
Geez... read the comic...

thought, is true that the sith lord comparison is unappropiate.

oh, and as far as we have been shown, ansom's troops don't go into battle with a big evil smile like warlords and dwagons

edit: oh, and as someone mentioned, i think that to get experience for your warlords you don't only need to croack some units, but to win the engagement. Guess that not only parson's side didn't win any experience through withdrawl but ansom's did't because they didn't croak a unit (if there was any unit capable of earning experience in the first place, as mentioned before).

[jindra34]

Oh, this is gonna be good. What is Jillian gonna do when Parson starts eating Ansom's lunch for him? What is Wanda gonna do when she realizes just what is going on? What is Charlie gonna do when he realizes exactly what he just signed up to face? What is Vinnie gonna do when he realizes Ansom is in deep, deep trouble? What is the coalition gonna do when they realize they're getting annihilated to no gain?

What is Stanly gonna do when he realizes just what Parson really is?

What is Parson gonna do?

1.Nothing out of the ordinary.
2.Its sinking in.
3.Nothing he can do.
4.He has realized that.
5.Break the alliance... maybe
6.Do a happy dance.
7.Kick Ansom's proud little ass.

[Kanthalion]

Stanley is not one to worry about a subordinate being too competent, or else he would would have disbanded Wanda already. He likes competent staff that handle things for him. Because he's a big picture man in search of the Arkentools, not just some ordinary ruler like everyone else.

I think Wanda's continued existence is due less to Stanley's preference for competent staff than it is to her ability to convince him that her ideas are his ideas.

Oh yeah--and her...uh..."other" skills. ^_<

[Alex Star]

There are no undead on ansom side. They have healers...

Right... so the uhh... Vampire... that's like his top advisor... what's his name.. oh yeah Vinnie.. Not surprised if you hadn't noticed him. Umm.. Vampires are undead.

[jindra34]

Right... so the uhh... Vampire... that's like his top advisor... what's his name.. oh yeah Vinnie.. Not surprised if you hadn't noticed him. Umm.. Vampires are undead.

Dude Vinnie looks like a Vampire but does not have most of the other qualities (such as not being able to go into the sunlight) so if he is one then it is obviously different from a traditional one and therefore may not be an undead... The forum already went over this...

[SteveMB]

I think Wanda's continued existence is due less to Stanley's preference for competent staff than it is to her ability to convince him that her ideas are his ideas.

Oh yeah--and her...uh..."other" skills. ^_<

I think it's mostly the former; the latter seemed to me to be a measure taken in extremis. Not that I think Wanda has anything against using sex to manipulate people (there was a clear erotic element, if not actual sexual activity, in her psychological work-over of Jillian), but giving sexual favors to Stanley risks creating a precedent for a situation she will have difficulty controlling (i.e. if he gets the idea that she's available to him, she'll have to either give him what he wants whenever he wants it or expend some of her manipulative ability fending him off).

[Reutan]

Awesome. I'm getting the feeling that Parson and Ansom are on entirely different levels, btw. Like Ansom's a commander in BF2...and Parson's the General of Command And Conquer.

Ansom can direct them and such, but he only sees as far as his people go, and as long as his people last.

Parson sees all, and can control all, commanding all parts of the battlefield at once.

[nooblade]

There are no undead on ansom side. They have healers...
oh, and everyone in the world has collided into jetstone alliance to stop stanley from conquering the arkentools, and the rest of the world after it. Oh, and Stanley is not only a jerk, but an overlord through regicide.
Geez... read the comic...

thought, is true that the sith lord comparison is unappropiate.

oh, and as far as we have been shown, ansom's troops don't go into battle with a big evil smile like warlords and dwagons

edit: oh, and as someone mentioned, i think that to get experience for your warlords you don't only need to croack some units, but to win the engagement. Guess that not only parson's side didn't win any experience through withdrawl but ansom's did't because they didn't croak a unit (if there was any unit capable of earning experience in the first place, as mentioned before).

More Star Wars references might be inappropriate, but there were a lot more, cheaper Tie fighters than the well-designed X-wings, sort of like Ansom's forces vs Stanley's. And anyone who purposefully pursues a living out of fighting would want to enjoy it every once in a while. I think I would grin as I went into a battle on top of a huge dragon just because it would be a big rush.

I don't get the impression that Stanley's a jerk just because Wanda had to cast the special spell or Sizemore is usually berated, that's just somewhat inhumane resource management due to lofty aspirations. Nobody ever said that Stanley wanted to croak everyone once he got all the Arkentools, either. Isn't a little tyranny behind every RTS game? Its not like the units can veto a suicidal move.

They're just two players in a game, neither of them are good or evil. That's a lot more interesting than things as they roll in D&D, for some purposes.

[Caledonian]

I love Sizemore leaning over to get a view of the game table. He can't quite grasp what Parson's done either - it's just too huge.

And there's more...

Ooh, the quality of these updates is why we get so impatient when they're delayed. This is just awesome.

[Shadowdweller]

BTW, on the artwork:
Love the blue glow reflecting off various characters' faces.

[Gez]

Vampires are undead.

Not necessarily. It's the most common trope, but vampires are fantasy creatures* and as such can be whatever the author wants them to be. I've seen vampirism-as-a-disease** and vampire-as-a-different-race before. Zombies, lichs, and wights (to take other "usual undead") are quite often not undead: zombies as brainwashed drugged-up slaves (inspired by Haitian zombies), lichs as immortals (notably in Ars Magica), wights as monsters of unknown origin (the word, after all, is just old english for "being")...

* The real-world people who inspired the takes about vampires, such as the Countess Bathory or Vlad Tepes, were definitely not undead.
** Even "undead vampires" can usually be healed and become living again. Even in settings like White Wolf's World of Darkness where resurrection is not possible.

[fractal]

So, it does seem that Parson made a wise move in not waiting on Stanley. Even if Stanley would have been otherwise amenable to following a plan of Parson's, he would have wanted to modify it. In this case, he would have probably insisted on fighting each battle to the end, in order to gain experience for the warlords. That would have resulted in either losses, the defeat of far fewer siege units, or both.

Hopefully this victory will convince Stanley to hold off on meddling in future plans.

[SteveMB]

Hopefully this victory will convince Stanley to hold off on meddling in future plans.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that, but a continued pattern might give Stanley the idea that, if he's angry at Parson over something, there might be something else he needs to know that makes it all good. If so, Parson will have come up with (intentionally or otherwise) his own way of manipulating the Tool.

[TheTurnipKing]

You did not get it... too competent and Stanley may disband Parson for fear of him overthrowing Stanley...

I get it, but I don't know if overthrowing your leader is actually possible according to the physics of Erfworld.

Consider Wanda, who is eminently competent. If he's not afraid of her, why would be be afraid of Parson?

[SteveMB]

I get it, but I don't know if overthrowing your leader is actually possible according to the physics of Erfworld.

Stanley evidently did so, via "sorta" regicide (whatever that is, exactly).

Consider Wanda, who is eminently competent. If he's not afraid of her, why would be be afraid of Parson?

Perhaps because Wanda convinces him that whatever he ends up doing at her suggestion was really his idea all along. From that point of view, Wanda would seem to be an utterly loyal and unambitious administrator.

[(name here)]

I don't get all the people saying Stanly's warlords were incompetent. They just couldn't beat ansoms material advantage. They appernently did well before jetstone attacked them.

[SteveMB]

I don't get all the people saying Stanly's warlords were incompetent. They just couldn't beat ansoms material advantage. They appernently did well before jetstone attacked them.

It could be that the earlier warlords were focused on tactical victories -- winning battles but losing the war.

[Maerok]

I think Parson has definitely earned his keep.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

I don't get all the people saying Stanly's warlords were incompetent. They just couldn't beat ansoms material advantage. They appernently did well before jetstone attacked them.

re-read the comic. wanda said she was not going to advance another warlord for looks instead of being good at the job. And also, it is implied that Ansom started the crusade against Stanley after he started losing battles.

[Bilgore]

Stanley evidently did so, via "sorta" regicide (whatever that is, exactly).

This implies only that the king was killed--not that Stanley was involved in the king's death. For all we know, the king fell in battle.


Maybe Rob and Jamie will give us the full story on that one of these days.

[Monan]

From the stress on the "did" I think that it was shock at his accomplishment.

Agreed.

I love Stanley in his Hugh Hefner robe. Nice look Jaime! The pop culture references afre great.

BTW I also like how this strip explained some of the confusion on if the battle sequence in a previous strip was the entire turn or a small example of what happened through out the turn.

[ErikZ]

For like the past 10 or so comics. Maybe more. We have been waiting for _this moment_. The moment that Stanly is just floored by Parson's performance.

Yes. FINALLY.

What makes it better is that even Wanda looks stunned.

[Flakey]

I don't get all the people saying Stanley's warlords were incompetent. They just couldn't beat ansoms material advantage. They appernently did well before jetstone attacked them.

Well if not incompetent, they are at BEST not more than competent. Look at What Parsons has already achieved, compared to the warlords, that had the units Parsons did, and 11 cities to work with.

I loved the "For openers". I had a chill run through me from that panel. Can not wait to find out about it.

Not sure if its my age or what, but I am not impressed with the watch. I can do almost as good as the watch with a pen and paper and in similar times (Partly due to the small buttons. I can reduce the time using a standard calculator), and not just small amounts. I am talking about 5, or more, digit BODMAS configurations.

[gatitcz]

I loved the "For openers". I had a chill run through me from that panel. Can not wait to find out about it.

It's probably just the dragon ambush. Many people have said this. It looks like the original plan was just to have high-move dragons hit-and-run this turn, but that would use up their move and prevent them returning to the city in the same turn. So the dragons with less mobility for attack were supposed to hang around to defend the ones which would get wounded, act as a deterrent, and on the next turn all the dragons would return, hitting targets of opportunity. But since Ansom doesn't know that fresh dragons are lying in wait, he's going to try to chase them instead of leaving them alone, or at least suffer serious ambush penalties he wouldn't have if he would have chased after them knowing they were there. There could be more to it, but just that's going to cause a lot of damage and use up a lot of Ansom's turn.

Not sure if its my age or what, but I am not impressed with the watch. I can do almost as good as the watch with a pen and paper and in similar times (Partly due to the small buttons. I can reduce the time using a standard calculator), and not just small amounts. I am talking about 5, or more, digit BODMAS configurations.

We don't know how "the watch" works yet. It's just a crappy timepiece/calculator on Earth, but in Erf Parson might just say, "What are the odds of success?" and have it show up immediately, no button mashing needed. It might do complete breakdowns of various scenarios. We haven't seen any mathomancy yet, so we don't know if it goes beyond statistical probability in our world or not (though since Erf has clearly defined rules, it's probably a lot more accurate than anything in our world).

[InfernusTribble]

Why on erf is everyone calling Parson a Sith Lord? That makes no sense at all.. if this was to be comparable to the Star Wars Universe Parson would be a heck of a lot closer to being a Jedi than anything else.

It was the lighting in the final panel and the way Parson says "For openers" that made me think of it but our OP, Moik, said it as well

Either that or I was reading up on too much star wars on wikipedi last night

[BFJT]

Dude Vinnie looks like a Vampire but does not have most of the other qualities (such as not being able to go into the sunlight) so if he is one then it is obviously different from a traditional one and therefore may not be an undead... The forum already went over this...

I think someone brought up the visual fact of "half vampire" due to his one fang and one pointed ear, but I don't know if that was settled as "good observation" or "bad art blunder"