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Thread: Wait Wait Wait
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2007-11-07, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
Fax, I'm going to say this once and once only:
1. Dragons can sense anyone who enters their lair, unless they're little ones. I doubt we're talking about a little one.
2. Dragons have a stride measured by the size of their BIG FREAKING LEGS.
3. Crushing Damage is not an attack roll. You seem to think it is.
4. Any DM who doesn't have the capacity of thought to portray Dragons in a manner that allows them to WALK or STAND or RUN or STEP ASIDE while some worthless magically imbued peon of a hors’dourves walk up to them without taking any actions needs to be immediately stripped of their DMG and thrown out onto the street by the local Dungeon Masters guild.
I did not once ever suggest to break the rules.The Order of the Sacred Order is on! Feel free to watch if you like! PM if you are interested in joining, I've moved my game away from these moderators -
Current DM: Me
Current Campaign: B2 Keep on the Borderlands :D
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2007-11-07, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
Do you know what I find amazing, sweetie?
That people on this board, and around the world managed to enjoy D&D before you came along and told us we were all doing it wrong. Somehow we deluded ourselves into believing that we were partaking in a group activity that we all enjoy without your decrees on how to roleplay, DM and live our lives.
Before you came along honey, my life... well... I don't think I could call it living. It was a mere shadow of an existence. I knew something was missing, that there was a gaping maw in my soul. I tried filling it with religion, women, drugs and partying, but none of them fit right. And now, with your hard & fast rules on what the right D&D experience is, your directions on how to play monsters right, your instructions on how to punish players, and what to punish them for, I finally feel that that void has been filled.
If only you had come along earlier with your condescending attitude, repetitive exclamations and tiresome attitude, then my life could have been complete years ago.
Thank you darling, thank you.Many thanks to JasonDoomsblade for the avatar.
Well done. You found this secret part of my signature. Does it make you feel like a big man?
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2007-11-07, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Or the appendix that was 1st edition psionics. "My attack type A can only be stopped by defense types E, C and on Tuesdays, Q! Oh my brain. I think that's why my group never encountered mind flayers, even in Spelljammer.
=edit=
How I handle the issue of wizards in comparison to the rest of the party in overshadowment:
I don't allow them. Voila. No risk taken.
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2007-11-07, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
The Order of the Sacred Order is on! Feel free to watch if you like! PM if you are interested in joining, I've moved my game away from these moderators -
Current DM: Me
Current Campaign: B2 Keep on the Borderlands :D
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2007-11-07, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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- Santa Monica, CA, US
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Yes?
..
uh..
oh.. oh other sweetie.
=edit=
Overlard. You're awesome.
That is all.
Where does it say that a dragon can sense everything in their lairs?
Most dragons of this ECL are... huge?
And there isn't just one 'puny' thing running up to them.Last edited by Reinboom; 2007-11-07 at 09:04 PM.
Avatar by Alarra
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2007-11-07, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2007-11-07, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
This assumes all classes start off balanced, that is a false statement and ergo, any dependent statements are not necessarily true.
Fear is what keeps you from cossing the middle of an intersection without looking both ways.
Fear is what keeps you from sticking your hand into the fire.
Fear is what keeps you alive.
Players forget to properly play fear. They think because it's just a piece of paper, there is no fear. They need to be reminded that they fear for the wellbeing of their character. By utilizing fear correctly, you can give your players a rush of enjoyment and satisfaction. It's clear however, you've never experienced this.
You just called me a tyrant for using fear in my campaigns, and then brag about "cherry picking" feats and forcing your players to follow a communistic chain of approvals to make their characters.
It isn't a sad state of affairs. That's how this game was handled from its very inception. If you want to be coddled and want to treat your players the same way, then that's your choice. But it's a choice that does break from even the very origin of Dungeons and Dragons, and in fact, all board games ever produced from ages 8 and up.
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2007-11-07, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
Any DM who doesn't design a Dragon who has protective wards or watchdog spells on his/her lair needs to have their badge taken from them and tossed to the side.
Wasn't council of wyrms translated into 3e? I seem to remember reading the 3e version at the game store.
They go into the rules of dragons and their lairs. I suggest people read it for more understanding.
When I read dragon descriptions in the 3e books they were not weak, and they seemed to be straight ports over to 3e from 2nd edition. They do have equiv spell abilities and do use magical items in their freakin hoard for the same reasons.The Order of the Sacred Order is on! Feel free to watch if you like! PM if you are interested in joining, I've moved my game away from these moderators -
Current DM: Me
Current Campaign: B2 Keep on the Borderlands :D
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2007-11-07, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
ARRGGG MY EYES MY EYES!
lol
You have your own style of DMing that relies on fear to keep your players in line. Some DMs instead keep their power by consent due to their players honestly enjoying the game. I await the day when your downtrodden players figure out that they don't have to tow your line of fear and "What I say goes" and find a DM where they can play other styles.
Edit: well, let me put it this way.. What a DM does say goes. But, I allow my players to protest, and talk and discuss and they even get backsies if they realize that a rule is going to cause a "problem" with their character.Last edited by Dalboz of Gurth; 2007-11-07 at 09:10 PM.
The Order of the Sacred Order is on! Feel free to watch if you like! PM if you are interested in joining, I've moved my game away from these moderators -
Current DM: Me
Current Campaign: B2 Keep on the Borderlands :D
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2007-11-07, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Have you ever played this game ever?
Wizards can fly just as fast as dragons.
Dragons have abysmally low touch ACs.
Dragons can pretty much only ever have one AoO which means a simple bit of teamwork means that any dragon with roughly 60-120 feet[fly speed]. That means that a wizard able to cast a maxmized shivering touch and overcome a dragons touch AC can kill any dragon that gets within 60-120 feet.
That isnt even dealing with things like quickened dimension door, or readied actions, or the various other things that a wizard can do to get a touch attack off.
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2007-11-07, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
This seems to be a houserule, because I found no mention of it in my 3.5 MM. Could you point me to this entry?
2. Dragons have a stride measured by the size of their BIG FREAKING LEGS.
3. Crushing Damage is not an attack roll. You seem to think it is.
4. Any DM who doesn't have the capacity of thought to portray Dragons in a manner that allows them to WALK or STAND or RUN or STEP ASIDE while some worthless magically imbued peon of a hors’dourves walk up to them without taking any actions needs to be immediately stripped of their DMG and thrown out onto the street by the local Dungeon Masters guild.
I did not once ever suggest to break the rules.
Beguiler, you just got served.
ALL hail DirtyTabs, creator of this wonderful UserClone TRONpony!
*sigh*
X Stat to Y Bonus
Quotes:
SpoilerOriginally Posted by BRC
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2007-11-07, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
Yeah, affection between men is really disgusting. Hilarious.
I think the whole "fear" thing is based on the fact that your approach to balancing overpowered classes is by punishing player's from using too powerful abilities, thus causing them to avoid using said abilities. It works, I guess, but I'd much prefer Fax's method.Last edited by Ozymandias; 2007-11-07 at 09:18 PM.
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2007-11-07, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Dragons have a move speed of 60'. The fly spell, a 3rd level spell, gives nearly anyone a fly speed of 60' with man of good. Unless the dragon can kill the party in one round, it is likely that they will be hit by a spell from someone. If the spell basically defeats the dragon then I fail to see how the DM has failed.
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2007-11-07, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
The wizard doesn't even need to be near the dragon with things like spectral hand or Reach Spell.
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d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class
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2007-11-07, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
I have and I've met players who thought they could outwit me and ate for breakfast using standard rules.
Wizards can fly just as fast as dragons.
Dragons have abysmally low touch ACs.
Touch is at most 3 feet. A dragon can just walk faster than a wizard on foot. And a wizard using a fly or haste spell is asking for a magically empowered dragon to rip them into small chewey bits and pieces..
Dragons can pretty much only ever have one AoO which means a simple bit of teamwork means that any dragon with roughly 60-120 feet[fly speed]. That means that a wizard able to cast a maxmized shivering touch and overcome a dragons touch AC can kill any dragon that gets within 60-120 feet.
That isnt even dealing with things like quickened dimension door, or readied actions, or the various other things that a wizard can do to get a touch attack off.
LOL
Dragon's don't collect treasure and magic items just to give them to players. They collect items they want and items THEY WILL USE. Only an idiot of a DM would create an encounter where a dragon can knowingly die in one hit, and then give that dragon masses of treasure. Dragons fight off entire kingdoms to keep their hoards.The Order of the Sacred Order is on! Feel free to watch if you like! PM if you are interested in joining, I've moved my game away from these moderators -
Current DM: Me
Current Campaign: B2 Keep on the Borderlands :D
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2007-11-07, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Dragons have blindsense 60'. Decent but not "Lair radar" it was implied to be. Heck, it isn't even blindsight.
They also have a crush attack that is reflex or be pinned, basically. A pinning dragon, FYI, loses its Dex bonus to attacks from outside the grapple. Smart dragon...
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2007-11-07, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Again, this is one of those all-or-nothing statements that, while it makes your posts amusing to read, it is probably laughter you don't want, as the amusement stems from pity.
I suggest people read it for more understanding
Beguiler, you just got served.
ALL hail DirtyTabs, creator of this wonderful UserClone TRONpony!
*sigh*
X Stat to Y Bonus
Quotes:
SpoilerOriginally Posted by BRC
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2007-11-07, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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2007-11-07, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Not really. Maximized reaching shivering touch: 18 Dexterity damage to one target within 30'. Invisibility, teleport or dimension door to get within range (or, if you feel like horseback, try phantom steed. 100'+ fly speed? Yes please). Dragon is now paralyzed. Kill immobile dragon.
Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class
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2007-11-07, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Ring of Counterspells - Dispel Magic. Common, core, item that many wizards have for a reason.
Then there's also the issue of --- who goes first? Overland flight is nearly always on. You dispel it - you've wasted your round. The wizard is still doing an awesome job in this situation. You can't dispel and then squish. Sorry. Reread the rules.
5 Feet*
Read the rules, for your own sake. Please.
And the dragon has more than just the wizard to worry about. The dimension door, teleporting, shivering touching, etc. etc. blah blah blah wizard. The wizard is just the primary power house.
Dragon approaches in order to 'chew'. Dragon is dead.
Not in everyone's campaign. Your way of playing isn't the end all be all.
Sure, they have access to their hoard. Fine. Even a good selection won't surpass a wizard's set up - unless you're exceeding the WBL recommendations. Mind: You better be fair with this.
Those kingdoms clearly didn't have wizards.Avatar by Alarra
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2007-11-07, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Dragons have horible caster level check modifiers and is unlikely to dispel the fly.
i see no reason why the dragon wouldn't cast Alarm on his lair though. Or Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound. That magic mouth spell. But well, its just another dungeon crawl then.My mother says: those on fire should roll.
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2007-11-07, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
If the best thing a dragon has to do is a targeted dispel on basically the safest spell in the SRD to have dispelled on you, then they arn't very smart.
IF YOU CAN GET WITHIN RANGE TO USE TOUCH.
Touch is at most 3 feet. A dragon can just walk faster than a wizard on foot. And a wizard using a fly or haste spell is asking for a magically empowered dragon to rip them into small chewey bits and pieces..Oh, please.
LOL
Dragon's don't collect treasure and magic items just to give them to players. They collect items they want and items THEY WILL USE. Only an idiot of a DM would create an encounter where a dragon can knowingly die in one hit, and then give that dragon masses of treasure. Dragons fight off entire kingdoms to keep their hoards.
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2007-11-07, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
You obviously don't understand. The dragon has an anti-phantom steed, anti-invisibility, dimensional locked lair. That's just good DMing. He also is immune to Dex damage. Really when making encounters you should not only try to make them as fear-inspiring as possible, but also make it so the party can't win. I bet you give your players treasure, too...noob! [/sarcasm]
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2007-11-07, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Wait Wait Wait
Jeez, a battle of wits. Thank god you're proficient at fighting unarmed, hun.
Dispell magic -- OOPS SORRY SQUISH
IF YOU CAN GET WITHIN RANGE TO USE TOUCH.
Touch is at most 3 feet. A dragon can just walk faster than a wizard on foot. And a wizard using a fly or haste spell is asking for a magically empowered dragon to rip them into small chewey bits and pieces..
Dragon's don't collect treasure and magic items just to give them to players. They collect items they want and items THEY WILL USE. Only an idiot of a DM would create an encounter where a dragon can knowingly die in one hit, and then give that dragon masses of treasure. Dragons fight off entire kingdoms to keep their hoards.Many thanks to JasonDoomsblade for the avatar.
Well done. You found this secret part of my signature. Does it make you feel like a big man?
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2007-11-07, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Connecticut
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Beguiler, you just got served.
ALL hail DirtyTabs, creator of this wonderful UserClone TRONpony!
*sigh*
X Stat to Y Bonus
Quotes:
SpoilerOriginally Posted by BRC
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2007-11-07, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
You do realize you then preceeded to list a whole bunch of non-standard rules right?
Dispell magic -- OOPS SORRY SQUISH
IF YOU CAN GET WITHIN RANGE TO USE TOUCH.
Touch is at most 3 feet. A dragon can just walk faster than a wizard on foot. And a wizard using a fly or haste spell is asking for a magically empowered dragon to rip them into small chewey bits and pieces..
Dragon's don't collect treasure and magic items just to give them to players. They collect items they want and items THEY WILL USE. Only an idiot of a DM would create an encounter where a dragon can knowingly die in one hit, and then give that dragon masses of treasure. Dragons fight off entire kingdoms to keep their hoards
Lets quote from the SRD
" Although goals and ideals vary among varieties, all dragons are covetous. They like to hoard wealth, collecting mounds of coins and gathering as many gems, jewels, and magic items as possible. Those with large hoards are loath to leave them for long, venturing out of their lairs only to patrol the immediate area or to get food. For dragons, there is no such thing as enough treasure. It’s pleasing to look at, and they bask in its radiance. Dragons like to make beds of their hoards, shaping nooks and mounds to fit their bodies. By the time a dragon matures to the age of great wyrm, hundreds of gems and coins may be imbedded in its hide. "
Here is a tip, stop digging, you wont make it to China.
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2007-11-07, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
hah, i did one better.
No prepared full casters and i still get to veto your spell choices.
We have a monk, swashbuckler, duskblade[the spellcaster], and Fighter. They are going to stay in a city most of the time, so its easy to buy resources, but still, its going to be awesome.
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2007-11-07, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Dragon's don't collect treasure and magic items just to give them to players. They collect items they want and items THEY WILL USE. Only an idiot of a DM would create an encounter where a dragon can knowingly die in one hit, and then give that dragon masses of treasure. Dragons fight off entire kingdoms to keep their hoardsReally, because by default most dragons cant use ANY treasure. In fact, core dragons have a horde because they are greedy and not because they are defending themselves. The horde also acts as a lure for food.
Lets quote from the SRD
" Although goals and ideals vary among varieties, all dragons are covetous. They like to hoard wealth, collecting mounds of coins and gathering as many gems, jewels, and magic items as possible. Those with large hoards are loath to leave them for long, venturing out of their lairs only to patrol the immediate area or to get food. For dragons, there is no such thing as enough treasure. It’s pleasing to look at, and they bask in its radiance. Dragons like to make beds of their hoards, shaping nooks and mounds to fit their bodies. By the time a dragon matures to the age of great wyrm, hundreds of gems and coins may be imbedded in its hide. "Last edited by UserClone; 2007-11-07 at 09:44 PM.
Beguiler, you just got served.
ALL hail DirtyTabs, creator of this wonderful UserClone TRONpony!
*sigh*
X Stat to Y Bonus
Quotes:
SpoilerOriginally Posted by BRC
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2007-11-07, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: Wait Wait Wait
Assuming you've managed to gather an army composed primarily of people with 5+ HD. And they've all got magic weapons. A dragon of Young Adult or older has Frightful Presence and DR 5/magic. It can easily scatter an entire army just by flying over it. If you want to try magic, well, congratulations- that's also the age category where they get spell resistance. They're a lot easier to fight if they're any younger than that, but you probably don't need to try and depend on natural 20s to take down a younger one.
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2007-11-07, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Santa Monica, CA, US
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