LGBT people in the playground

[SDF]

So my question for you is: What am I? Transgendered, Transsexual, just a Cross-Dresser?

Well, you are not a label and really only you can decide who and what you are. But if you are confused (well more confused, I mean everyone is confused) and trying to figure it all out, have you talked to a psychologist? A good one can be really helpful with trying to understand yourself better.

[Catch]

So my question for you is: What am I? Transgendered, Transsexual, just a Cross-Dresser?

What're you askin' me for?

Seriously though, it's something you should be pondering yourself. If you've always felt uncomfortable or out of place as a male, like you've been born in the wrong body, you might be transgendered. If you could change genders, permanently and without looking back, would you? And as far as the gender that you're attracted to, that doesn't really dictate your own gender, I don't think. There's a difference between being a gay male and a straight MtF and there's a difference between being a straight male and a lesbian MtF.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on the subject, not by far, but I suggest you seek out someone who is. Talk to a psychologist, get a few things off your chest and see where you end up.

Best of luck to you.

[Lex-Kat]

Actually, while I was driving around hunting for food, I thought about my own question. And realized that it was very ridiculous.

I AM Lex-Kat (Bobbie to my friends). I would label myself Transsexual because I feel that I am a woman inside. I would change it, but I'll wait until they have perfected it so that a MtF can have babies just like a born Female.

Also, to all those who want to buy skirts & dresses, I suggest walking in with confidence, just as if you actually are buying these items for someone else, and buy them. Most clerks won't care or even wonder unless it's something a bit more intimate (underwear). Even then, they don't say anything to you aloud. At least they've never said anything to me.

[Catch]

Actually, while I was driving around hunting for food, I thought about my own question. And realized that it was very ridiculous.

I AM Lex-Kat (Bobbie to my friends). I would label myself Transsexual because I feel that I am a woman inside. I would change it, but I'll wait until they have perfected it so that a MtF can have babies just like a born Female.

Well, it's great that you've decided for yourself. We could use more girls on the internet.

As far as pregnancy is concerned, there's a procedure or two out there that I know of but you should probably ask SMEE. She knows way more about that sort of thing.

[AmberVael]

As far as pregnancy is concerned, there's a procedure or two out there that I know of but you should probably ask SMEE. She knows way more about that sort of thing.

They've advanced it that far?
I suppose I did less research than I thought...

[Rex Idiotarum]

Aparently O.o

[AmberVael]

Snopes claims it a hoax site.

Wikipedia gives some speculation on the subject, but says nothing definite yet.

[PhoeKun]

Lex-Kat: Thank you for sharing your story. You've been through a lot (and hugs for that ), so it's inspiring to see you here sharing it with us.

As far as pregnancy is concerned, I know that MtF transsexuals can donate sperm prior to transitioning so they can have a child with their own genetic material, but I'm not familiar with even an experimental procedure that would allow one to actually give birth... does anyone else know anything about this?

edit: Well, I'll be darned...

[SMEE]

There have been experimental procedures to implant a compatible womb in rats.
With some new drugs to avoid tissue rejection, it's possible to do such in a human and allow pregnancy to happen.
It has never been tested in humans before, though, and such pregnancy is quite risky.
There are other options where the fetus is grown outside a womb, the placenta would establish itself and would make intimate connections with surrounding vessels, which would make it's removal to too risky for the patient. Leaving it in place also would be troublesome.
The main problem with this approch is keeping the parent alive after delivering the baby.

Nevertheless, after I'm done with the SRS, I'll wait an year or so and try to find a doctor willing to study such procedures in humans. I'll offer myself as a guinea pig for it.
If it goes alright, many infertible women and post-op transwomen will be able to dream of pregnacy.

It's risky, but someone has to try it.

Lex-kat:
You got one interesting story. Hugs for you.

[PhoeKun]

SMEE... I don't really know what to say right now. Whether or not I want to caution you against doing something so dangerous, or to hug you for even considering something so... so brave.

I'm in awe. And, well...

[rubakhin]

Glad they're making headway on that, for you MtFs. Hopefully it'll come out within your lifetimes.

Sucks for FtMs. They can pass better than most of their male-assigned comrades, but there aren't decent options for surgery, and there don't seem to be any new procedures in development. I wonder if it's out of some kind of prejudice and/or lack of visibility, or if the surgery is just that much more difficult.

[Catch]

Snopes claims it a hoax site.

Probably. Then again, I have a certain distrust of Snopes.

[SMEE]

It is a hoax site. It's been up since 1999, if I recall correctly.

[Serpentine]

I have to say, from my perspective, people seem to be talking more about the cross-dressing type of transgender than anything else...
I don't know, maybe it just because of how I think. But seriously? Skirts? Dresses? Hose? How much do they really have to do with identifying as a woman?

How much does anything? What does anything have to do with identifying as a woman, as opposed to a man (aside from childbirth, of course)? I can't help but detect a hint of a kind of sexism in transexualism... the idea that this Other is somehow so different to the current self, somehow intrinsically different (and, apparently, superiour) to "ordinary people" (in this case, men). It seems to be reinforcing the innate difference and a sort of inequality between the sexes. In a way, one not certainly related to this (I'm not sure exactly what it is), I feel like my sex is being hijacked and somehow belittled by it all. BUT, as I've said before and no doubt will say again, I don't understand a mindset in which one's identity rests so profoundly on one's bits and/or a chromosome, and no doubt never will. On the other hand, I can see that if it matters so much these people that they're willing to undertake years (?) of treatment and medication and no doubt extremely painful surgery, it really must be a big deal to them. I must confess that I have little doubt that I'll be uncomfortable when I meed a transexual in real life, but due merely to a simple lack of contact with them (I'm uncomfortable around people of various disabilities, too, but that's because the only seriously disabled person I've spent any extended time with is my Down's syndrome cousin, and I have to reacclimatise every time we meet) and my lack of understanding. Of course, transexualism isn't any less vaguely amusing as red hair, and if I feel comfortable enough with someone to make fun of their hair, dagnabbit I'm gonna make fun of their gender/s.

Hm. I wonder who's gonna dislike me or take affront now...

SMEE, even with that procedure a C-section will still be needed, surely? The hips, the hips! Even wide female ones break sometimes, and I can't think the hormones can have that profound an effect on those >.<

edit: dagnabbit, I knew there was something specific I wanted to say. On the subject of crossdressing: The mentions of it I've seen have made me feel iffy for two reasons. First of all, the filching of other people's clothing without their knowledge. That is creepy. I would be very disturbed if I discovered someone trying on my clothes without my permission regardless of gender or species*. They're my clothes, a part of my identity. It's very wrong. Furthermore, you might stretch something. You would all know these people far better than I could, obviously, but it could be worth asking that friend or sister to dress you up. I think it'd be great fun (I'm still trying to get Conrad Poohs to try on my purple shiny pants again. Unfortunately, he's worried about people (read: girls) thinking he's gay), and there's an excellent chance that they would too.
Secondly, I think it's because I get an image of the idiots at the colleges or a bad drag queen. I don't think I have any real problem with the clothes themselves. It's that they're designed (theoretically at least) for the female body, which you do not have. I take infuriatingly ages just trying to find one thing that looks any good on me, and these things are (supposed to be) made for me. You will have to search at least as hard to find something that looks decent on you. Pleeeease go to the effort, or you'll just look silly, even in your own bedroom. I know two guys who pull it off very well (one had damn good legs for stockings, and the other's just gorgeous in a cocktail dress and high heels), so I know it's possible. I'm not exactly a fashion expert, but here's some points that might come in handy:
Short skirts make legs look longer. If you don't want to emphasise height, where longer bottoms.
A low-cut top won't look any good on a flat chest (and especially, especially not a hairy one), and a padded bra won't help good there.
There's these tops that seem to be popular at the moment, with shoulder straps, a short bodice that stops under the chest and a big skirty flowy thing at the bottom. They look like maternity wear on girls. I have no reason to think they'll look any better on guys.
If you're six feet tall, with a square jaw and a five o'clock shadow, you're probably just gonna look like a bad parody no matter what.
Stockings are really uncomfortable, no matter how good they look.
Long sleeves, long skirts and a high neck always look elegant (even on me =O). I think they'd be worth a try.

*Yeah, I dunno. I blame postmodernism.

[dehro]

People suck.

[Of course they do.

only if they are inclined that way

sorry... bad joke..not new either..just had to say it
if it's not an +18 joke I'll be sure to edit it out.

well.. it is now 4.00 in the morning. I got hooked on this thread I landed on whilst looking for something entirely different, but have about 14 pages yet to read. therefore I'll call it a day.
I'm 29yo, male and straight. I've had the occasional doubt both in a remote past and in more recent times.
I do not shy from thinking of someone he's handsome if I think he is. there is no underlying sexual desire in it.
obviously this is a simplified version... there is more to say, as there is for sexuality in all its shades and colors..but..04.00 a.m. , remember?
I'll just say that the debate and personal tales are mightily interesting and enriching, so I'll be sure to read the thread through. I do have some tales to tell, some issues(who hasn't?) and more than one question.
I am also curious, from a humanistic point of view more than from a personal one. so I guess I'll say something about myself at the next occasion, though it might all sound a bit dull, for most of you who have/have had to endure so much adversity.

respect

[AmberVael]

I don't understand a mindset in which one's identity rests so profoundly on one's bits and/or a chromosome, and no doubt never will.

I would be very disturbed if I discovered someone trying on my clothes without my permission regardless of gender or species*. They're my clothes, a part of my identity. It's very wrong.

And you're telling me you don't understand how identity rests in appearance?

Edit of the edited edit.
I can't decide how I want to phrase this... >.<

[Serpentine]

And you're telling me you don't understand how identity rests in appearance?

Is that all transexuals are doing? Changing their appearance? I know what you're getting at, but I wish I looked like other people I know. That doesn't mean I'm going to get plastic surgery to do so. So if that is all they're doing, no, I don't understand that.

Edit of the edited edit.
I can't decide how I want to phrase this... >.<

I look forward to it

[PhoeKun]

@Serpentine: On the front of borrowing clothes, I completely understand. At one point, I considered borrowing my sister's things, but... well, I creeped myself out. And I know that if she took anything of mine, I'd be equally disturbed (which is sort of an unrelated tangent, but you get my point. It works both/all ways).

But if you think about how having someone else wearing clothes makes you feel, you might get something of a better idea about why it is transsexuals place so much importance on gender. There are plenty of facets to who you are, but part of that is yourself as a girl, right? And part of expressing that is taking time to look nice/wear certain clothes, right? Well, I don't honestly know what causes transsexualism, but it's really the same thing. There's much more to anyone's identity than just gender, but it's a definite part of how we all see ourselves, and each other (for better or for worse). And it's not a part any of us can really change.

You hear more about gender from a transsexual because, for them (and me), it's a part of who we are that doesn't feel right. I can certainly understand you being uncomfortable with things you're unfamiliar with, but I hope that you can see nobody is really trying to hijack and belittle the female gender...

[Rex Idiotarum]

How much does anything? What does anything have to do with identifying as a woman, as opposed to a man (aside from childbirth, of course)? I can't help but detect a hint of a kind of sexism in transexualism... the idea that this Other is somehow so different to the current self, somehow intrinsically different (and, apparently, superiour) to "ordinary people" (in this case, men). It seems to be reinforcing the innate difference and a sort of inequality between the sexes. In a way, one not certainly related to this (I'm not sure exactly what it is), I feel like my sex is being hijacked and somehow belittled by it all. BUT, as I've said before and no doubt will say again, I don't understand a mindset in which one's identity rests so profoundly on one's bits and/or a chromosome, and no doubt never will. On the other hand, I can see that if it matters so much these people that they're willing to undertake years (?) of treatment and medication and no doubt extremely painful surgery, it really must be a big deal to them. I must confess that I have little doubt that I'll be uncomfortable when I meed a transexual in real life, but due merely to a simple lack of contact with them (I'm uncomfortable around people of various disabilities, too, but that's because the only seriously disabled person I've spent any extended time with is my Down's syndrome cousin, and I have to reacclimatise every time we meet) and my lack of understanding. Of course, transexualism isn't any less vaguely amusing as red hair, and if I feel comfortable enough with someone to make fun of their hair, dagnabbit I'm gonna make fun of their gender/s.

So, in this paragraph, you mention that it shouldn't matter what you wear, so long as you are comfortable.

They're my clothes, a part of my identity. It's very wrong. Furthermore, you might stretch something....I t ake infuriatingly ages just trying to find one thing that looks any good on me, and these things are (supposed to be) made for me.

And yet, you admit to identifying your clothes as part of your identity. I guess that's what I'm getting at.

Okay, news aside, I told a friend. He's bi, and has gone into detail on his relations to other guys. When he asked "Why does everyone do this to me." I calmly said vengeance. Afterwards, when he calmed down a bit, he mentioned, "Well, I always did say that you were a woman stuck in a man's body." And he's right. Maybe it's blatantly obvious to everyone around me. That I'm really only hiding from my self...

[Serpentine]

So, in this paragraph, you mention that it shouldn't matter what you wear, so long as you are comfortable.

And yet, you admit to identifying your clothes as part of your identity. I guess that's what I'm getting at.

Part of my identity. A very small part. More of a way express my identity on the outside. What I wear also reflects my mood, though I doubt anyone could really tell which is what. That's hardly the same as one's gender. It was just a throwaway line to try to get across why I don't like the idea of someone else wearing my clothes, nothing more. Could everyone please stop focusing on that measly little point that I'm pretty certain doesn't mean anything? The idea of someone going through my things behind my back is a much bigger part of it.

Okay, news aside, I told a friend. He's bi, and has gone into detail on his relations to other guys. When he asked "Why does everyone do this to me." I calmly said vengeance. Afterwards, when he calmed down a bit, he mentioned, "Well, I always did say that you were a woman stuck in a man's body." And he's right. Maybe it's blatantly obvious to everyone around me. That I'm really only hiding from my self...

From the sounds of it, that's a pretty common thing... Well done, anyway.

Phoe, I think it's mostly just discomfort from not knowing how to act, and frustration on thinking that I think there should be a way to act, and that I have to tiptoe around these things. In the specific example of my cousin, it's that I only see him maybe once a year and have no way of knowing what level he's at, so I'm afraid of patronising him or of going over his head. Once I'm around him for a while, and know approximately what his mental age is (last Christmas it was around 5 or 6, I think), I'm fine, but that changes again each time we meet. Any discomfort I have around, say, a transexual person will, I presume/hope, fade with familiarity.
For the record, "don't understand" isn't the same as "don't like". I don't really understand the need to "come out", but I really don't understand the people that despise the people for coming out, either. It just seems like a big fuss over something that doesn't make that much difference to a person... Of course, no doubt I'd feel a lot different if I was gay or transgendered or whatever.
Oh dear. I'm sidetracking the thread... In a world of baffling intolerance, I can certainly see the need for a place like this. Please, proceed?

[Rex Idiotarum]

Part of my identity. A very small part. More of a way express my identity on the outside. What I wear also reflects my mood, though I doubt anyone could really tell which is what. That's hardly the same as one's gender. It was just a throwaway line to try to get across why I don't like the idea of someone else wearing my clothes, nothing more. Could everyone please stop focusing on that measly little point that I'm pretty certain doesn't mean anything? The idea of someone going through my things behind my back is a much bigger part of it.

I agree, and have never tried on my mom's or my sister's clothing. That would be like stealing my brother's underwear.

Still, you say sometimes you feel like wearing a dress. I'm saying sometimes I feel like wearing one, too.

[Serpentine]

And I have no problem with you doing so. In fact, I'd love to go through my sister's clothing collection (literally. It's like her hobby) with you, and no doubt so would she.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Why the stuff about coming out? Well, not all reactions are the best, nor are they predictable, even upon people that hint about it and joke about it, like my friend did. Of course, I didn't make it a big deal. He was going on about how all his friends are bi or gay in some way, and, as the conversation winded down, I just said, "Well, who am I to comment? I'm wearing lady's underwear..." I knew it would be something of a big deal, as there is really nothing you can say to that.

[Serpentine]

Just a convenient example of a significant, uniquely LGBT, and sort of vaguely should-be-unneccessary event. Nice way to breach (?) the topic, there...

[SMEE]

* hugs Serpentine *

Yes, I'm aware of such facts. We, transsexuals, are kinda desperate people. We live with something that's completly alien to us. That's usually why we take gender and clothing sterotipes that high.

On a side note, it's damn hard to find proper clothing around here being 6'1...

And yes, a C-section is not only needed. It's the only option to deliver the baby.

[Quincunx]

Conversational hijack:

There are plenty of facets to who you are, but part of that is yourself as a girl, right? . . .

Primary. More than I'd like.

And part of expressing that is taking time to look nice/wear certain clothes, right?. . .

No. Clothes might change whether or not I'm more accepted among females, but they can't make me more or less female. For me, they're useless. For someone trying to be accepted into a new gender, or for someone for whom the opinions of others matters, clothes are probably very valuable. (That sentence sounded impartial to the point of rudeness--I'm sorry--but I am fumbling in my ignorance, trying to cut myself out of the statement.)

[Ceska]

No. Clothes might change whether or not I'm more accepted among females, but they can't make me more or less female.

No, but they can make you feel more or less female. It might be all in your head, but that's the most important part for a person, isn't it? How you perceive yourself and how you feel? If I feel more like a woman in stereotypical female clothing I am more female to myself.

I'd like to word this better, but I see I can't. I hope I could deliver the meaning of my post though.

[Alarra]

As for the borrowing others clothes thing...I mean, yes, it's better to ask first, but really, it depends on the person and I can see it being perfectly possible to borrow clothes from someone who you're close to without them caring at all. I know I've borrowed sweartshirts from my brother and any number of different clothes from my mom and it never really occurred to me to ask first, or that they would care at all.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Clothes do in fact make the man. In fact, I had this argument before in the context of Fable. Which is to say that if you're wearing something dark and gloomy, you're one way, and if you're wearing something bright and cheery, you're personality may change. If only slightly. I mean, take the most gothic kid you know, put him in a Polo Shirt and khakis, and he will seem somewhat different. Uncomfortable. You know?

Why? The cut or feel of the gothic clothes and the polo shirt don't differ too much, that should make no difference in self-perception, right? Wrong, because part of how you perceive yourself is how you feel others perceive you.

So yeah, wearing woman's clothing to increase your metaperception of being a woman seems only natural.

[PhoeKun]

No. Clothes might change whether or not I'm more accepted among females, but they can't make me more or less female. For me, they're useless. For someone trying to be accepted into a new gender, or for someone for whom the opinions of others matters, clothes are probably very valuable. (That sentence sounded impartial to the point of rudeness--I'm sorry--but I am fumbling in my ignorance, trying to cut myself out of the statement.)

Hm. I feel like I did a poor job of explaining myself. Do you believe that clothing can be used as a means of outwardly expressing various aspects of a person's personality and identity? You know, not that you become what you wear, but that clothing can in some way alter the perception of those around you, and even yourself? I think there's at least one thing for every person they would not feel comfortable wearing. And if that's true, then I'm sure for each one of those things, there is a person who loves them. I don't really know if I'm making any more sense than I was before, but I think this is about as close as I'm going to get...

@SMEE: At 6'2'', I feel your pain. Lousy above average height...