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2008-10-08, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
"As I recall, the albatrose was a sign of good luck until some fool went and shot it." -Malcolm Reynolds
Bad move, V.Half-Orc Scout by Magioth
Founder of the Therkla Fanclub
My Exalted Characters
Spoiler
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2008-10-08, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
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2008-10-08, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Four right words:
I have enough. Disintegrate.
To the right being
Qarr
At the right time
Still thinking about it
For all the wrong reasons
Imp will just slow me down, I need to be alone
(as opposed to: Gosh, an Imp just came for assistance... maybe I'm evil)
EDIT: I agree with others: "Have a nice trip" is the best line by Elan in a very long time. Elan is becoming a much more interesting character who has a heart and *gosh* a brain.Last edited by Jan Mattys; 2008-10-08 at 01:17 PM.
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2008-10-08, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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2008-10-08, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Yes. There's absolutely no way that I would have come to that conclusion prior to the benefit of hindsight, especially not with Mr. Burlew going so far as to have Durkon attempt to work with V only to get really badly rebuffed. Cooperation and coordination was an idea alien to me until approximately six hours ago when, in a desperate scramble to find things to dislike about a character, I decided it was necessary to criticize something at random. This was, in no way, my immediate reaction on reading whatever strip it was that the Pit Fiend showed up in. You have me pegged so perfectly that I should call you MC Pegmeister Peggy, Esquire.
Alternate theory: It doesn't take hindsight to realize that coordination is most useful when fighting an overwhelming force. The Battle of Rorke's Drift wouldn't have been worth a breath in history if everyone there had decided to just start running out and attacking willy-nilly, leaving every man to fight for himself.Last edited by AstralFire; 2008-10-08 at 01:26 PM.
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2008-10-08, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
I dunno. Ask someone that thinks V doesn't have a familiar. (and the last time he was seen was http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html )
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2008-10-08, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
I couldn't read 7 pages of comments so if someone already posted this sorry. Here's what I think will happen:
Spoiler
The Imp wants to go into the ship:
"And here I thought the hardest part would be getting back abord a ship with two paladins".
Imps have alternte form:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#imp
So the imp will disguise as V so he can be in the boat freely.
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2008-10-08, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
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2008-10-08, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- Roma
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
I just remind a thing from Vaarsuvius... "I blame Cerebus".
Ah, the irony...
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2008-10-08, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Epic Wrong.
If you need to know what the dictionary definition of that would be, it would point to the above.
We already have had about 40 pages of "It's Murder!" and queries about "Why now and not then?".
And we have chewed the fat and pretty much got to a conclusion that that wasn't a threat meant AS "I'm going to kill you" in rather the same way as when you were thirteen and you were grounded for swearing at your mum and you said "I'm gonna KILL YOU". (Or Ballmer was going to really kill Google).
Unless you really HAVE killed your parents in an adolescent fit of rage...
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2008-10-08, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Brazil
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
...but c'mon! We need ye!
And yet I see no reason why I still need ye.
You.
That made me laugh
But yeah, the group is splitting even more now... V's obssession is getting the better of him. Or her.
Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
"In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
"Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."
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2008-10-08, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
I'd forgotten about 440. Last I remembered was after the bandit camp. Which made it of *some* sense that a few had been going on about Quar was going to be V's familiar 'cos he needed one.
Maybe you meant Quar would *replace* Blackwing, but I think that still costs the caster 1CON point.
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2008-10-08, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-08, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- KC
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2008-10-08, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
I've been thinking that V has been going down the road of the bad guy recently, however, now I am thinking something else.
600 might show that V still has morals. Qarr will offer V unlimited power in return for his soul or something along that vein and V will go "how about no" and zap him - just to show us that while V may not be the moral compass of the party, he certainly isn't a villian just yet.
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2008-10-08, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Hm...clever, but not possible by RAW. Not that that's ever stopped The Giant before.
SpoilerNo possible imp alternate forms even remotely resemble an elf, jokes about how V's health aside.
This is also outside the RAW, but to combine your theory with a couple of others:SpoilerOne possible alternate form for an imp is a raven. If V were to somehow switch out Blackwing for Quar(which V would probably do if the offer doesn't cause V to realize that V is turning evil, considering how much V is always bitching about it), then Quar could impersonate Blackwing in an attempt to disguise just how bad V has gotten from Haley.
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2008-10-08, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2004
Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
A number of readers have taken issue with my criticism of the tale's drift from the main plot, operating under the assumption that this grievance meant I wanted the story to be shorter. It's a flawed assumption; the story could have kept the Order from reaching their goal for the same amount of storytelling without having to take them off course for so long.
With strip #599, there is again the suggestion of moving toward the goal and toward foreshadowed character-defining events, and it's being handled in a fashion that creates obstacles for the party (the further sundering of the group) while still moving at least one of them in the direction of their goal. This was well done, and I wish we'd seen more of (what will be) the fourth book's events to date handled in similar fashion. Not all of them, please understand -- not everything can or should be tied to the gate quest -- but more of them.
(For example, it wouldn't have been hard to link Kubota to the gates: portrayed as he was, it's somewhat hard to believe that he wouldn't have sent ninja to learn what Hinjo had been trying to keep out of Xykon's hands, then done his best to learn more of the other two gates, seeking a bargaining chip that might both get his city back and discredit Hinjo. Knowing Xykon, Kubota might have plenty of cause to regret such a deal. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have risked it, considering the prize at stake.)
There are a few more things I like about this strip. First, V's physical condition clearly refutes the claim for not needing rest. I'm puzzled on one point, however: how is the elf recovering spells without resting? The possible rendezvous with Quarr also has potential -- even if it does delay a reunion between V and Haley, the imp would be very interested in opportunities offered by the gates.
Finally, I loved everything about Elan's handling of the situation. The quick, neutral farewell, followed by a very to-the-point remark displayed maturity and possibly the closest thing to leadership this trio has right now. It was then followed by an expression of doubt that echoes remarks we saw in strip #596 ("I guess--I guess it's for the best."), though with a bit more certainty ("I think -- I think it's for the best," and then, "It's probably for the best.") His opinion may be horribly wrong, if Quarr has anything to say about it, but there's plenty to indicate that talking V into staying might be the wrong thing to do as far as everyone is concerned (or at least for Hinjo, Elan, and V).
I also like how Elan suggested to V that he'd tell Hinjo the truth, then appeared to change his mind at the last moment. It was worth seeing how easily the lie unravelled as well (even if Hinjo isn't going to press the issue further), since lying was V's suggestion. I don't know if I've ever seen Elan lose his temper quite like this before either. (Anger at his brother came out a bit different, and anger at V over the multi-class-to-wizard fiasco seem to have come out in very different style.)
Back to V, though -- or rather, to Quarr:
SpoilerImps can assume two animal forms, with raven being one of the more popular choices (according to the MM listing -- gamers may have another opinion on the subject). Anyone else wondering if he might try to pass himself off as Blackwing or another familiar? It should be easy enough to uncover the ruse -- the lack of an empathic link alone ought to be a dead giveaway -- but I'm not sure V's faculties are reliable enough to work through whatever pretext the Giant might offer Quarr.
Please note that I find this highly unlikely. I only mention it because the raven link has entertaining possibilities, whether or not V could see through the facade.
As for whether or not Blackwing is still around, their final appearance does have a sort of "last straw" feeling for both of them.
My only complaint about the strip is with its title, but that's only because I've got a Journey song stuck in my head now.
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2008-10-08, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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2008-10-08, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Hm...clever, but not possible by RAW. Not that that's ever stopped The Giant before.
However....
SpoilerQuar is not a simple "out of the book" imp. He probably has class levels of some sort, most likely a caster class. Thus he could easily have another way to change his form...
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2008-10-08, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
SpoilerProud Activist of The Goblinoid Sub-Type
Originally Posted by The TygreOriginally Posted by RowsenOriginally Posted by Sir Dar
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2008-10-08, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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2008-10-08, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
So exactly how was cooperation going to help? The "aerial livery service" idea wasn't even feasible, unless V's plans for achieving ultimate arcane power have involved raising his strength score heavily. Durkon suggested that he heal V, and V countered with a suggestion to lower the fiends saves (a tactic which directly resulted in its defeat.)
And as long as we're talking about it, Therkla left halfway through the fight, was probably significantly lower level than the PCs, and wasn't in a position to sudden strike. Hinjo is 12th level or so, but was taking some hurt by then, and his dog was out of the picture. Lien is even lower level, and was having trouble beating the devil's DR. Elan isn't terribly good at melee even at the best of times, and probably wasn't packing a silver rapier. Durkon is a healer, not CoDzilla. So it wasn't a pack of 15th level characters going after a CR 20. Additionally, the reason the CR system seems a bit low is because most PCs optimize their characters significantly more than the Gimbles and Jozans the system assumes. THis isn't true with the Order. So really, the best option against a single overwhelmingly difficult opponent IS to lower its saves and throw save-or-dies.
As for the AC battle, consider what would have happened if either side hadn't had their high level characters. Without Redcloaks summons, the walls would have held much longer. V would have been free to blast the hobbos all day long without the Death Knight, and his enchanced soldiers could have kept killing. Xykon wouldn't have wiped out the occupants of the keep.
On the other hand, Xykon has DR enough so that the common soldiers can't touch him. He could have bombarded the soldiers from his dragon (that they can't hurt with arrows either) until he runs out of spells, then land and make touch attacks until he re-dies of boredom. Without the hoards of ghosts in the throne room, he and Redcloak would have been virtually unopposed.When in doubt, light something on fire.
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2008-10-08, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-08, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
This is a cliffhanger if I've ever seen one, and three things can happen.
1. It can be played straight, Qarr persuades V to team up and V's slippery slope becomes 30 degrees more steep.
2. It can be played straight, Qarr offers his services, but V refuses and zaps him.
3. It can be averted with V completely ignoring Qarr, or even Qarr not being able to catch up to V's fly speed.
Unfortunately, my gut says 1 is the most likely option.
EDIT: Crackpot idea
4. The comic switches suddenly to Haley/Xykon/LG, and we don't find out what happens for at least 20-30 strips.Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2008-10-08 at 02:00 PM.
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2008-10-08, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Please don't jump into an argument where one person (me) is taking on about 3 or 4 and not read past posts; it leads to more typing and ring-around-rosie debating than necessary:
Originally Posted by MeAnd as long as we're talking about it, Therkla left halfway through the fight, was probably significantly lower level than the PCs, and wasn't in a position to sudden strike.
Hinjo is 12th level or so, but was taking some hurt by then, and his dog was out of the picture.
Lien is even lower level, and was having trouble beating the devil's DR.
Elan isn't terribly good at melee even at the best of times, and probably wasn't packing a silver rapier.
Durkon is a healer, not CoDzilla.
As for the AC battle, consider what would have happened if either side hadn't had their high level characters. Without Redcloaks summons, the walls would have held much longer. V would have been free to blast the hobbos all day long without the Death Knight, and his enchanced soldiers could have kept killing. Xykon wouldn't have wiped out the occupants of the keep.
On the other hand, Xykon has DR enough so that the common soldiers can't touch him. He could have bombarded the soldiers from his dragon (that they can't hurt with arrows either) until he runs out of spells, then land and make touch attacks until he re-dies of boredom. Without the hoards of ghosts in the throne room, he and Redcloak would have been virtually unopposed.Last edited by AstralFire; 2008-10-08 at 02:07 PM.
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2008-10-08, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-08, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Not good. . . good comic, though, giant. I think 600 is going to have the imp making an alliance with V, now. Also, have changed Sig. to have new fav quote: They were Dire Half-Dragon Bone-Eating Werepirannas, Okay?!?!?:Elan:
Avatar by neoseph7. Avatar hosted here.
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2008-10-08, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
I was surprised to see V just up and leave, but in retrospect, I guess I shouldn't have been. The same statement applies to Durkon looking sad over V's departure. Good ol' Durkon.
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2008-10-08, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, I'm sure the ruler of Azure city will happily abdicate his thrne in favour of the nobles in his cities hour of need inrder to go wandering round dungeons with the order
I don't see why. Here's why they split up:
Haley's player (lets call her Harriet) can't make it to the thursday evening d&d sessions for a while 'cos she's doing an evening class, or some other regular thing. Eventually she'll finish them, but for now it's decided she'll game on a wedsday instead. Bob (belkar's player) and maybe roy's player, Rob, (taking over Celia) decide to play on wednesdays for a while, but everyone else is as normal, and the dm runs 2 sessions a week. While this is going on, Leslie (V's player) drops out of the group, meaning the DM takes over as V.
Ta da!
(and to join in the mass prediction making, I reckon #600 will see us switch over to Haley.)Spoiler
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2008-10-08, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread
... or else report that Elan was right. Elan did say "bone-eating" piranhas, not "metal-eating" piranhas.
It's weird: I used to hate Elan, and now I'm starting to like him. He's helping to find Haley in the only way he can: wishing Vaarsuvius luck.
The first couple of frames in the second page are an interesting turn around from the last strip. Elan tries to let Vaarsuvius know that he'll be telling Hinjo the truth, but is not understood because Vaarsuvius isn't listening. Then because he didn't get through to Vaarsuvius, he isn't up to following through.