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2009-06-04, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
SpoilerThog Hug Camo Man!
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2009-06-04, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Kind of already spoofed in #0024, though not exactly about potions. So, you may be on to something; Jirix having those potions in the first place might be a continuation of that same sort of joke about monsters and NPC's having loot solely for the PC's benefit.
Though, then again, Jirix may have already drank a potion or healed himself off-panel, though it does leave the question as to why O-Chul took him down so easily. So maybe the joke about NPC's being too stupid to use their own items is a better explanation.
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2009-06-04, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-04, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Nope, not at all. The D&D rules merely add clarity to how weird the situation is. We can describe the scene without using D&D rules at all.
V is badly damaged by spell X, and is then damaged some more, enough that one questions whether she is even still alive. He proves functional, tho obviously extremely hurt as Xykon badly damages O-Chul with the same spell. A second spell knocks O-Chul out.
V now feeds him some potions that removes part, but only part of the damage. So now they are both badly damaged and hit by that same powerful spell that has always delivered boatloads of damage before, and they apparently aren't hurt a bit.
This is simply the villain firing a full clip at point blank range at the hero and missing every time.
We never saw V drink a potion at all [and he remains as damaged as ever], and we saw them do only a partial cure, not enough to save O-Chul.
Originally Posted by motub
Originally Posted by motub
Originally Posted by motub
Originally Posted by motub
Originally Posted by Shatteredtower
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2009-06-04, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
If a writer uses a "special rule" enough, as with Control Weather, Xykon's special version of Force Cage, the dismemberment of an eye of fear and flame to make it portable for Belkar, Shojo's version of the Mark of Justice, Pokeballs, and so on, will it really have to be mentioned every time a new one comes up?
I say thee nay!
Besides, I've already demonstrated a perfectly plausible, strictly by-the-rules (save where V is shown delivering two potions simultaneously to O-Chul, which gets a pass by virtue of being shown) means by which both of them could have survived the attack. Four attacks causing 6d6 hp of fire damage each are reduced to an average of 4 hp of damage by Resist Energy (fire) cast at 7th level of ability. As for the bludgeoning damage, maybe Xykon couldn't be bothered to make attack rolls, figuring the overkill a waste of effort on his part.
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2009-06-04, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Good god!!!
More complaining about the comic not being believable!!
NEW FLASH! This just in!!
ITS A COMIC!
A FANTASY comic to boot.
If its so damn unbelievable, stop reading it! Its quite simple! Just take a break, come back in a month or so, by then this arc will be over and you can find all new reasons to hate the comic! Geez!
Besides, I think Rich puts stuff like this in on purpose, just to taste your tears.Last edited by Nevadie; 2009-06-04 at 03:10 PM.
***DISCLAIMER***
When I talk about a theory, belief, or any other way of thinking. This does not mean in any way that I believe in said theory, it also does not mean in any way that I am trying to make you believe it.
I am simply bringing up it has a possible way to look at things. Because when a person decides what to believe, they should be aware of all sides of the subject. I don't care if you believe a giant pink rabbit created the universe, just be educated in making that decision.
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2009-06-04, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
The main problem is V, since he didn't seem to drink any potions himself.
Still it would have been better if there was some hint in comic. It's gotten a bit repetitive and unbelievable how many times in a row they are brought to the brink of death. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just mildly annoying. For all we know V might have drunk a strange potion too or whatever. I just think the strip was missing something. They seemed too near death not to die
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2009-06-04, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
This reminds me of a movie I watched yesterday, 2012:Doomsday.
Absolutely HORRIBLE movie, badly written, horribly acting, and horrible graphics.
You know what I did? I stopped watching it and put on a different movie.
Its THAT simple...***DISCLAIMER***
When I talk about a theory, belief, or any other way of thinking. This does not mean in any way that I believe in said theory, it also does not mean in any way that I am trying to make you believe it.
I am simply bringing up it has a possible way to look at things. Because when a person decides what to believe, they should be aware of all sides of the subject. I don't care if you believe a giant pink rabbit created the universe, just be educated in making that decision.
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2009-06-04, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
I actually have to agree with David Argall on this one. I still really like the comic, but right now it's confusing me. I'm hoping that it some of it might be cleared up next comic, but truthfully? I doubt it. I don't think that V or O-Chul should have survived that meteor swarm, but it doesn't bother me as much as V no longer choking. V's windpipe was crushed, and now she appears to be fine. What's going on there?
Still love the comic, but this particular strip just bugs me.
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2009-06-04, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
True, though I look at it this way: if V can pour two potions at a time down O-Chul's throat, three wouldn't be a stretch either, suggesting that the empty bottle we see in the wizard's hand might not have been given to the paladin.
There's no proof of that, of course.
I think it could have benefitted from tighter pacing, sure. One too many visits to the brink start to make the trip a lot less exciting in the long run.
I think you're only assuming that to be the case. The sound effect we see coincides with the slash marks across V's gut, which weren't there in previous panels.Last edited by Shatteredtower; 2009-06-04 at 03:36 PM.
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2009-06-04, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
So if the movie had an official forum and you happened to visit it all you'd see would be comments that the movie was great because those who thought it sucked would not post at all.
And we're not talking about something so extreme anyway. We're talking about a mild annoyance at one small part of a movie. When you discuss the movie in a forum it is going to get mentioned along with all the good stuff about it.
So no, your line of reasoning doesn't have much merit. You basically just told a bunch of people to shod off. Why are people so ill equipped to handle challenges to their world-views? Oh yeah, the human condition. Never mind then...
BTW I think V's windpipe was not crushed. Xykon started doing it, but didn't get to finish it all the way. That's what you get for doing things slowlyLast edited by Simanos; 2009-06-04 at 03:42 PM.
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2009-06-04, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Perhaps one of those potions was the protection from energy so many have guessed at. That would have absorbed all of the damage. And V could have been protected by a couple readied move actions, with the trigger "I feel like it." It would clear the radius by 20ft even if we go with the normal DnD radius. Hmm... looks like almost no damage. In fact 28 average. Less than the average healed.
On the crushed windpipe. Really? Lets chalk it up to DnD silliness and HP totals. Or Rich's ignorence from watching too many movies.
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2009-06-04, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
The explanation I prefer is... Xykon has already made it clear that he wanted both of them to remain alive to see all the unimaginable ways he can hurt them. Ergo, he wasn't trying to hit with that Meteor Swarm (supported by the fact that he was making O-Chul an offer at the time) and he wasn't trying to crush V's windpipe merely seconds after threatening him with all kinds of pain.
Although, granted, the fact that it took O-Chul some impressive acrobatics and elf-tossing to escape the Meteor Swarm damage is a slight flaw in that idea... But I think the explanation is as good as any, anyway.
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2009-06-04, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-04, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
This post may contain sarcasm.
DeviantArt
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2009-06-04, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
A "crushed" windpipe needn't stay crushed, provided the hyoid bone isn't broken. Most of the trachea is held open by cartilage, which is rather elastic, rather than brittle bone. Nor does the larynx need to be crushed to render someone unable to talk, as stopping airflow also prevents speech.
Unlike those of living, meaty hands, Xykon's skeletal fingers are pencil-thin: he could easily have squeezed V's neck without snapping the hyoid or damaging vir larynx. It's not as if he were an assassin, with professional expertise at the best way of strangling people; he just grabbed vir neck too low.Last edited by Rotipher; 2009-06-04 at 05:32 PM.
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2009-06-04, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
... and, since O-Chul tossed hir (meaning that shi didn't "dodge" under hir own power at all, but at his choice of speed and direction), doesn't that effectively make V "covered" (sheltered) by O-Chul's Reflex save, rather than hir own (in the same way that the phylactery might have been an "attended object", as it were)?
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2009-06-04, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-04, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Xykon might've taken a grip that would kill V slowly rather than quickly, but it's pretty clear he wants vir to die. O-Chul's the one he intends to torture some more, but even so, I doubt he'd be pulling punches while the phylactery is still at risk.
Although, granted, the fact that it took O-Chul some impressive acrobatics and elf-tossing to escape the Meteor Swarm damage is a slight flaw in that idea...
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2009-06-04, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Wow! I sure hope Blackwing doesn't start getting all "not-gonna-do-stuff for you..." It would take some kinda loyalty to fly up next to that rift, knowing the Snarl's propensity for grabbing/killing stuff that comes too close. Given the evidence we have of the strength of the master/servant bond between these two, I don't think Blackwing's going for it. By the way, isn't Blackwing a great name for a familiar? just the sort of thing I'd come up with when I realized that my just-made cool-elf-wizard character sheet doesn't actually have one; it does a magnificent job of evoking that sort of last minute I-don't-give-a-**** feeling you get with familiars.
Last edited by Mr. Pin; 2009-06-04 at 06:19 PM.
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2009-06-04, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
"That's not right, that's not even wrong."
"This is not an idea to be tossed aside lightly, it should be thrown with great force."
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2009-06-04, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-04, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Surviving a meteor swarm is less annoying to me than being asked to believe V didn't prep fly (after being asked/told to believe he got to instantly select his spells from memory off panel, before laughing like a maniac). V is in such a hurry he doesn't want to wait 10 minutes for Roy to come back, forsaking the chance to show off to his team mates... he clearly has a good idea the splice is running out... but we are asked (under this new retrofit explanation) to believe that a guy with a minimum of 8 lvl 3 spell slots (remember, he has a ring of wizardry), didn't prep fly with any of them, knowing the splice was running out v.soon. I guess he needed some extra attack spells, given how logical it is that they'd be useful if the 3 splices failed him against the dragon...
Last edited by JeptCloak; 2009-06-04 at 07:45 PM.
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2009-06-04, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Hey David and Jept, you know what? I'm convinced, you are absolutely right. What's happened in these comics recently could not have possibly happened - it's all a horrible sham. My suspension of disbelief is shattered, and I can no longer read on. I cannot believe how naive I was before. O what a terrible story. Thanks for showing me the light.
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2009-06-04, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Jept actually makes some good arguments. He just has really low tolerance for plot holes concerning V.
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2009-06-04, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Agreed. I for one find it more annoying that some people immediately yell at Jept without examining his argument, than the fact that Jept points out all the plot holes.
I just don't understand the argument that V swapped out his spells for new ones at the moment of the splice. I mean, when would this have happened? Even if the energies from the splice allowed V to speed up the process, it should have taken conscious thought at least, right?
Plot holes don't ruin my enjoyment of the strip, but denying they exist doesn't do any good.
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2009-06-04, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-06-04, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
This is all correct, but this is also the very point of the story line
V is being stupid, he's being arrogant, bull headed, and an all around jerk. He’s completely assured of his own magical supremacy that he never considers that ultimate arcane power does not mean undefeatable. When did he forget to bring a fly spell? It looks to me like he’s been flying the whole time from the moment the soul splice went into action. (Remember Rich has a tendency for having characters use up specific spell off screen for the sake of allowing a specific plot point to be plausible.)
edit: I just checked again and V never did cast fly (meaning one of the casters had it naturally?) which only furthers my point in the fact that V was being overly arrogant in the assurance of arcane power, which is the whole point of this arc
Jept has hit the nail squarely on the head. It defies all common logic to do it, but that is PRECISELY why it had to happen. This is a V character development arc. That means that V’s dogged pursuit of the arcane, which has been going on since the end of the Azure battle, had to be completely shattered. V put his total faith in the arcane and it bit his butt hard.
#658 is showing how V can succeed, despite all odds, when his mind begins to explore options outside the arcane. He goes out on a limb and searches the lieutenant and finds the potions (which, again, is completely within the realm of reason when you consider the fact that they are constantly having to worry about the resistance attacking randomly, for a high ranking official to be NOT be carrying some kind of healing object, be is potion, scroll, or otherwise, makes no sense). He saves O-chu and O-chu rescues him from choking to death and from taking full damage (or perhaps any damage) from the meteor swarm (which I would like to point out has killed zero people in all the times Xy has cast it over this comic).
This all makes perfect and logical sense based on the rules of the universe Rich has created as well as what we know about the individual people themselves.Last edited by abishur; 2009-06-04 at 08:57 PM.
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2009-06-04, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Twin2; 2009-06-04 at 08:55 PM.
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2009-06-04, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread
Let's see, in 3 of the 5 cases, it was mentioned, and the Pokeballs are pretty much plot neutral. So the answer seems to be yes.
Potions are routinely created at the minimum level, 3rd in this case, and we do not see V drinking any potions at all. Then we have that neither resist nor protection allow you to choose when damage is suffered. So we have about a 4/5 chance the potion is useless. In essence, this is plausible only in the sense it is plausible that Xykon rolled 4 one's to hit. It may be physically possible, but it is so bloody unlikely it is not at all plausible.
That is called really reaching. If it was worth the bother of a ninth level spell, it was worth the trouble of aiming.
Originally Posted by Kaytara
Originally Posted by Kaytara
Originally Posted by Kaytara
Originally Posted by motub