Test of Spite [3.5]

[olelia]

So..uh..er...Coup De Grace to myself!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So..uh..er...Coup De Grace to myself!

Oh, no... wrong fight. That was the Infinite Archer build who failed a will save on Death Urge...

[Ysul]

Empathetic feedback honestly seem kinda weaksauce. 20 returned damage isn't a ton, but I can see how it would add up with the others quickly.

Actually, maybe that is a ton, I'm not used to working with level 13 characters.

I was reading through more matches and I'm pretty curious about something:

1. Pheonixrivers- How do you get fluffy immune to Non-lethal damage? I understand the trollform->Energy Immunity (Fire + Acid) combo, But I cannot figure out the last remaining step. If possible, could you give the feat/item/ability/whatever's source?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Empathetic feedback honestly seem kinda weaksauce. 20 returned damage isn't a ton, but I can see how it would add up with the others quickly.

Actually, maybe that is a ton, I'm not used to working with level 13 characters.

I was reading through more matches and I'm pretty curious about something:

1. Pheonixrivers- How do you get fluffy immune to Non-lethal damage? I understand the trollform->Energy Immunity (Fire + Acid) combo, But I cannot figure out the last remaining step. If possible, could you give the feat/item/ability/whatever's source?

Half-Golem does the trick...

There's a few spells which duplicate that particular benefit as well.

And the thing about Empathic Feedback is that it is per hit. Against TWF spam-attackers, this hurts. A lot.

The other thing about Empathic Feedback is Action Economy. I don't need to do anything (once the buff is cast) to inflict damage. It happens automatically when my opponent hits me. This is a high degree of efficiency of both action and PP, since it will likely return more damage than anything else over a combat scene.

And also it's a stacking benefit as well. First, you take damage from Empathic Feedback. Then, you take more damage, and I heal, from Empathic Transfer, Hostile. It's a two-for-one deal at the bargain basement damage output store!

[Ysul]

Wow, Now I'm starting to get the potential of Empathetic feedback. The only problem is, if a big strong melee guy manages to get that many attacks off on you in the first place, chances are that you wont be alive long enough to remove your damage with Empathetic Transfer, Hostile.

I kind of want to participate in this thing. I'm not the best optimizer, but I think I can manage in the lower tiers. Would anyone be willing to do a practice exhibition with me when I create a character?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wow, Now I'm starting to get the potential of Empathetic feedback. The only problem is, if a big strong melee guy manages to get that many attacks off on you in the first place, chances are that you wont be alive long enough to remove your damage with Empathetic Transfer, Hostile.

There's a solution for that as well.

5 * 20 = 100 temporary hit points. Not able to stand up to Cindy, by any means, but usually able to last one round against a melee guy.

Oh, and here's the other fun part against multiple opponents...

Check the augmentation on the Empathic Transfer, Hostile...

No, not the damage cap increase, the other one...

Will save half for all opponents within 30'.

And you heal the amount of damage you deal...

So if you are hurt for 150, and you deal 50 damage to 3 targets, you're back up to full.

So not only are they all eating a bunch of damage with every hit, but then all of them end up eating even more damage. Not one of them, all of them. And it's more average damage than any non-metamagic'd blastomancy spell in Core.

So say you start off with around 100 hps. You double that with Vigor. Empathic Feedback + Empathic Transfer, Hostile = swath of dead folk

[Ysul]

Have you considered adding things like Karmic Strike and Combat Reflexes? So you smack them around, then when it's their turn to hit you, you beat them around some more. And then you deliver their own hurt back at them.(with postage, as you said :))

Maybe it's counter inuitive, but I think you might be able to make it work.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Have you considered adding things like Karmic Strike and Combat Reflexes? So you smack them around, then when it's their turn to hit you, you beat them around some more. And then you deliver their own hurt back at them.(with postage, as you said :))

Maybe it's counter inuitive, but I think you might be able to make it work.

That would also go well, yes. However, it is a particularly feat-starved build, so shaking them loose may be difficult at best.

You will, for example, wish to have the feat Martial Study (Setting Sun) Counter Charge, to keep Uberchargers from one-hit-KO'ing you.

[Claudius Maximus]

I'm pretty sure Empathic Transfer got nerfed in CPsi. You should look in there when building a psionic character, since a few powers got changed (including Astral Construct and Energy Stun, also popular powers).

You're welcome to participate, Ysul. Things have been a bit slow recently, but I'm sure you can find someone willing to have a match against you.

[Ysul]

You're welcome to participate, Ysul. Things have been a bit slow recently, but I'm sure you can find someone willing to have a match against you.

That's great! I'm trying to come up with a character to use, but it's difficult to find the balance between offense and defense while remaining effective. Who are the leaders? I assume yourself and Doc Roc, are there any others?

What is the difference between exhibitions and the other fights? How often are dungeons hosted?

[sofawall]

I'm officially a top banana, but Doc Roc does al the bannings, and Claudius does most of the refereeing stuff. I tend to help out with either, sometimes, and help with a side project of Doc Roc's.

[Claudius Maximus]

I'll also note that ImperialSpectre is a DM too.

The difference between an exhibition and a qualifier is that an exhibition does not "really" happen and can not qualify you for entry into a dungeon. There are no repercussions for winning or losing an exhibition. Losing a qualifier will probably have your character die and his/her/its corpse looted.

Dungeons are started when they're started. There's no schedule and it's overall pretty rare. Unfortunately most seem to have died by now. I'm thinking of starting a new one up soon, which will hopefully result in a few more matches.

[Doc Roc]

Exhibitions form the bulk of the matches, with qualifiers being used to settle scores or debates while we try to secure some better way of running the dungeons. Unfortunately, we've had relatively little luck lining up dungeon masters, considering the wildly variant optimization ranges that are brought to bear.

However, we're working on a set of changes that will help eliminate that, and maybe make it more accessible to new players like yourself in the process. The gist of it is that the unofficial tier system we're currently using as a sort of gentlefolk's guidelines is going to be made official and used to adjudicate who can fight who. Much the same way that boxing rarely matches a heavyweight against a welterweight, this should help insure that you know exactly what you are getting into, and why.

[Ysul]

Thanks for all the information everyone. I'm a little dissappointed that this seems to be slowing down, as it's been going strong for so long.

I've got a character in mind, I will probably be using the knight class. (Mostly because it isn't widely represented it, and I want to see what I can do with it. Sort of like what Shneeky did with the samurai.) I should probably start off with one of the lower tiers, and work my way up to tier 3 (If I can make the Knight viable, of course.)

Should I have any of you higher ups review him once I'm done?

@Sofawall: Your cube build is shown as being tier 0.5, but I've only been able to find one exhibition with it being used. It basicaly went like this:

Vop Monk: I attack where I think you are.
You: No dice. Make 7 saves.
Vop Monk: O.O ...I concede.

How exactly does the build work? I understand you use prismatic wall, but how do you shape it as a cube, and how can you make it move with you?

[Claudius Maximus]

Submit the character to the link on the first page's first post. Someone will check it and contact you about any issues they find before approving it.

[Doc Roc]

Actually, there's a submission link up front in the first post that will drop it into a shared gmail account. I should really make that sucker more obvious somehow.

[Ysul]

Sounds good, I'll get to work.

[Doc Roc]

Welcome aboard!

[Olo Demonsbane]

@Sofawall: Your cube build is shown as being tier 0.5, but I've only been able to find one exhibition with it being used. It basicaly went like this:

Vop Monk: I attack where I think you are.
You: No dice. Make 7 saves.
Vop Monk: O.O ...I concede.

How exactly does the build work? I understand you use prismatic wall, but how do you shape it as a cube, and how can you make it move with you?

That VoP monk/paladin I believe was mine. No idea why I made it, but it turned out somewhat decent for something with THAT build.

The Cube uses Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. Which is now, unsurprisingly, banned.

Also, welcome to the ToS! It's a great experience and a great way to learn optimizing.



I was planning on running a dungeon sometime around now, but one of my players got banned, and the other I don't think ever won a qualifier. Anyone here now interested?

I've been itching to optimize recently, though, so I may have a new build or two sometime this week.

[sofawall]

Once I get the new Legend document from ImperialSpecter, I may just make a Barbadin to try it out.

[Ysul]

Hey, if someone bought off 2 LA as soon as they could, would they be level 11 or 12 for this competition? It's kind of hard to calculate, does anyone else have the numbers?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Hey, if someone bought off 2 LA as soon as they could, would they be level 11 or 12 for this competition? It's kind of hard to calculate, does anyone else have the numbers?

Pretty sure that would make them 12th.

[Ysul]

Is the 'Insectile Creature' template allowed from savage species?

[Doc Roc]

Pretty much no. As a general rule, savage species is one of the only books we allow almost no material from.

[Ysul]

Aw. I knew it was approval-only, but this particular race seemed pretty balanced. Could you reconsider or is that set in stone?

I only ask again because I'm not sure if you actually looked at the template and weighed it, or just blanket banned the book.

[Olo Demonsbane]

The only exploit I can think of with it off the top of my head is using all six arms on one weapon to get a +3.5*Str bonus on your weapon. And that is honestly not THAT powerful, especially compared to the other things one can do with +2 LA.

[Ysul]

That was my train of thought too. Compare it to something like saint. You get two sets of arms that have severely limited uses, and negilible ability score boni.

[Doc Roc]

Hmm, okay, hit it up!

My primary worry was that it does change your type, which is perennially problematic.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I whipped up a Favored Soul. He's about ToS Tier 2, I'd say. Any takers?

[Doc Roc]

He returns!