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2010-07-06, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
There will almost always be someone who will, even without knowing, break the character - player knowledge barrier, this is an unfortunate truth of RP's, and this is the only concern I have with the "community must know everything".
Also, what if someone wants to keep something between only himself and another player for later?I'll top the bill, I'll earn the kill, I have to find the will to carry on, with the show, with the show.
(thanks Prime for awesum avatar, and thank you to all of the original BleachItP cast, it was great RP'ing with you)
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2010-07-06, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-06, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I understand the concern, but that's the consequences.
The biggest issue is that if you have only one or two people examining a powerset, you have a greater risk of something overpowered slipping through. That's the whole point of everyone looking things over.
If people can't inject the necessary surprise...*shrugs*
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2010-07-06, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Riccaru brought up a good point: we have a set of kinda-moderators chosen. Running powers through us is a possibility, but I'm afraid such will turn out to be real slow in practice.
Otherwise, I bring things up with people who are involved, if I deem such is necessary. Sometimes, like when extrapolating a new skill from existing powers, I don't do that - I just explain what the character does. Example would be Hannibal throwing a rock with enough force to hurt an Arrancar in the Episode - a canon example would be Ichigo swinging Getsuga Tenshou with his blade.
Unfortunately, I must revisit my argument of IC time Vs. OOC time - there are ways to both bring a character up and down within the game. If someone pulls a devastating secret technique out of the blue, we have two options: either we can tell the player "please don't use that again" and play an in-story justification for why the power can't be used as such anymore, or we spend pages of OOC fine-tuning each and every character ability.
At the point of character creation, OOC adjustments are natural, and serve enough other purposes than just 'balancing the game' to be tolerable. But, with such varied powers at our characters' use, there are bound to be broken combinations that probably won't be noticed until they are used. Trying to extrapolate each abuse beforehand is waste of time - we just have to trust other players and give them some leeway, otherwise we'll stall.
Finally, some of us like player surprise. We don't want complete information. That's like someone telling who did the murder before the mystery novel has even begun, and how, to boot.
Again, I stand by my opinion that many issues can and should be worked in-game, in contrast to OOC. If you firmly believe there are elements that should be alltogether banned, compiling them to a short, easy-to-read list would serve the game better than sorting everything case-by-case basis.Last edited by Frozen_Feet; 2010-07-06 at 06:48 PM.
"It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2010-07-06, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I think that Central 5 and anyone who is directly involved in the reveal need to be informed. If those people believe the power to be imbalanced or to need further discussion before it can be allowed, then it should be brought directly to the OoC. This should be done at least two weeks before you expect to enter the situation in which the reveal will occur, to provide everyone with enough time to consider it.
If the character's power set will involve someone else or you foresee it involving someone else, then you should pass it by those people ahead of the reveal as well. For example, a Vizardification would probably involve the people close to said character, or the development of a Bankai may want to be passed by the superior officer of your Division. Characters whose response may have an effect are also a consideration. People playing close friends or family members of your character may be worthy of consulting before you reveal any game-changing powers.
Obviously, when consulting these people it is advisable that you ask them if they want to know anything before you send it to them, as some people may not want to hear about it.
Once the power is revealed, you must post it to the OoC in a spoiler. For example, the post after my character uses their Segunda Etapa for the first time, I must post the description of its powers in the OoC in a spoiler. That way, if the 6 people who looked at it before missed anything, the prying eyes of the OoC will have a moment to catch it before anything major occurs. Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't want to read the exact powers of my new power level don't have to. Doing this will keep the reveal of said powers more of a surprise while still allowing everyone to balance power sets should said balancing be necessary.
If you, personally, wish to have it passed by the OoC, that is alright too. I assume no one is opposed to seeing a power set laid out in the OoC.
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2010-07-06, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
As a Central member, I object to this as a hard rule mainly because I don't think it will work.
This is just to clarify and give an example of what I meant of solving things in-game:
The word 'reveal' is the key here. If it is somehow paramount character's intentions and training stay off-stage until the reveal, then running it through relevant people in private beforehand is the 'right way' to do it. This is a matter of when / how of developing a powerset, and what the actual reveal is.
See, the underlined things are something that I think could as well be done in-game. If a character goes and asks a superior officer for vacation for 'unspecified reasons' (to train Bankai etc.), it serves as introduction of character intent just fine, and potentially adds a layer to the plot that wouldn't otherwise be there. Same with informing family members - the character can go and say it to them. If it's only the end result, ie. exact powerset that must stay in secret, I think settling on it could as well be done technically after the character has reached the powers, when it comes time for him to use them.
This I agree with, if the power will become a mainstay of the character's abilities. If something is introduced and explained as a one-shot tactic, I see no reason to post nitty gritty details of said power in OOC."It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2010-07-06, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-06, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I'm thinking of possible Bankai's for Suzume, but since her shikai is purely a fighting type I have no clue what to do. I was thinking a great ax on a chain that causes middling sized explosions on contact, or something like that. Any ideas to help me? I won't actually need one for a long while.
Edit: A tactic using already seen powers should just be talked out like any other part of a fight could be. If they already have the powers, they should be able to use them any way they'd like with or without showing people before hand. (Unless it's pretty game breaking)Last edited by riccaru; 2010-07-06 at 07:34 PM.
Sir Dan Avatar by Mrgone!
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2010-07-06, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I'm of the opinion that tactics are not powers unless I require an explicitly new power to use them. For example, if my character can create blades of ice, I don't need to explain later if he figures out how to create a giant ice throwing star and throws it at someone, because that's not really a new power, that's him creating some number of ice blades and fusing them together. I suppose there are better examples, but that's the one I came up with just now.
As for Central 5...honestly, that's what they're there for, at least in my opinion. We need Central 5 for the purposes of moderating the game. If anyone thinks they can't do that, then they should probably not be a member of Central 5.
Also, I suppose Draken should be included as he's basically in charge of Hueco Mundo.
Edit: Some reveals can't be solved IC. For example, if I theoretically wanted my high-powered Arrancar character to reveal the fact that they had a Segunda Etapa and had not used it previously in combat before, there's not much IC that can be said about my character having a power that they chose not to use or reveal up until now. I'm not talking "My character acquired this power," I'm talking "My character had this power the whole time and just didn't reveal it." If I wanted it to be secret, but I wanted it to be balanced, then I would have to talk to someone outside of game, and it would probably be a small group of people to whom the revealing of said power matters. And there's not much IC that can be done.
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2010-07-06, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I fail to see why you think it wouldn't work. Perhaps the time frame tgva proposed wouldn't work, if it's some spur of the moment thing (though I don't think that such upgrades should be), but requiring that they go through some initial vetting before being seen at all is not unreasonable.
My Unitarian Jihad name is Brother Rail Gun of Sweet Reason. Get yours!
Thanks to Cealocanth and PersonalSavior for my avatars!Spoiler
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2010-07-06, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Also, by "2 weeks ahead of the event" I meant "2 weeks before any of the fight begins." If the fight has started and no one has contacted any members of Central 5 about any power-ups, then no unrevealed power ups should be occurring in that fight. I think that's fair, because you should at least know 2 weeks ahead of a fight whether a reveal should be occurring in that fight.
That time limit can be changed at any time at Central 5's choice, as well. That time frame is just a random baseline I came up with in order to get my idea across.
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2010-07-06, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Main reasons I don't think it'd work would be PM bloat and time - if people start dedicatedly checking powers through us, there's a distinct risk of messages not reaching intended recipients fast enough, if at all. 100 message total is not much. After watching how slow our communication is, I'm not convinced people should dedicatedly run powers through us. Chances are, people will not be recieving a consensus of all five (or six) anyway.
Because of this, I don't think it's reasonable to demand Central 5s (or 6s, if Draken's included) opinion as a group, or making such a hard rule. If someone sends me a powerset, I'll be happy to provide advice, but I'm not keen on corresponding with 6 people to settle such matters.
We were chosen mainly to moderate Seireitei, to make sure Captains and their players are doing their job - likewise, Draken watches over the looser Las Noches. Is it really appropriate to involve us if a Quincy develops a trick shot, or someone of Enclave comes up with a new glyph?
Also, doing this puts more power to our hands, possibly more than Zarah intended in his original proposal. Are you sure you want to give us that? In the end, I believe any six people can provide enough reasonable adive to tell whether a powerset needs to be run through public OOC or not."It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2010-07-06, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Then run it by the OOC.
The issue is that at least some of the people looking things over need to be detached. That is, they need to not be involved in the character and/or the story bit around them; if they are, their judgment of the powerset might be more clouded "because it's cool". And while "cool" is good, it's also a poor judgment of powerset. After all, Shunsui's shikai is pretty cool; it's also hella broken.
The issue is that, in some way or another, there needs to be impartial oversight. That way, the powers can be properly evaluated, as relates to the game as a whole, as well as various characters (to make sure there's not too much overlap).
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2010-07-06, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Maybe send it to a few people besides those involved that you trust to give you constructive criticism? If an issue comes up the people you send it to can come in and say "Yes, I did look at this character." Kind of thing? There could be a set number of people that need to look at it and agree? I'm not sure if this would work due to personal bias, but it might work out. Or a few people can volunteer to look at character powerups? This might work better. If people are chosen to do this then anything they look at should be ok?
Sir Dan Avatar by Mrgone!
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2010-07-06, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Or "run it through people involved, plus three other random players". Running things through OOC is default already, and there should be a "dramatic alternative" for when it's needed.
"It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2010-07-06, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
We can elect a group of people to perform that duty if we really want. I agree that if we do this, we should have at least three people who are not at all invested in the character or their interactions view sudden power advancements ahead of time.
So basically what Frozen suggested, except less random and more "players who can provide viable feedback," because not all players may be able to do so due to time or what have you.
And honestly, my only understanding of Central 5 is to settle disputes/arguments and make sure that no one does anything incredibly drastic that causes the world to end or something like that.
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2010-07-06, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I think FF has said a great deal of what's really important in this discussion, and seeing as KD agreed to it (no offense meant, but he always seems to be the most conservative when it comes to many things), we have, at the very least, a good baseline to work with.
The glaringly obvious need not be said - no character power upgrade should extrapolate the limits presented by the setting. No Vizard Segunda Etapa or anything like that.
In addition:
I'm of the opinion that tactics are not powers unless I require an explicitly new power to use them. For example, if my character can create blades of ice, I don't need to explain later if he figures out how to create a giant ice throwing star and throws it at someone, because that's not really a new power, that's him creating some number of ice blades and fusing them together. I suppose there are better examples, but that's the one I came up with just now.
As someone who has a character whose shikai consists of a weapon that changes into 108 others, and whom is shown as training diligently, I fully expect to be able to use a tactic of a similar vein. If the nature of the powerset itself is unchanged, there should be relatively little need to notify people ahead of time. Slowly breaking previously imposed limits is also something that happens constantly in fighting animes (the easiest example in Bleach would be not using incantations for Hadõ) - key word here being slowly. If someone who could barely use Kidõ up to level 22 is shown as suddenly casting level 60 Kidõ without incantation, some explanation had better follow. Preferrably in the form of a reveal such as "I was ashamed to use Kidõ" (hello, Yumichika) rather than something like "I had a chat with my Zanpakutou's spirit and now I'm stronger" (Ichigo).
Anyway, my point is. Small leaps in ability are fine. They shouldn't be done constantly, and they shouldn't add up too quickly or too high. By following that, we ensure that character power reveals remain at least somewhat balanced and power creep doesn't happen.
Though I'll be honest, I am surprised that such a point was not discussed in the previous game.The Void, the Cold Steel, the Just Sword courtesy of Prime32.
AWSUM
This one's new.Spoiler
I met a girl with a really pensive look. I walk up to her, put a fifty cent coin in her hand, "For your thoughts. I know the going rate is supposed to be one, but I figure you play hardball."
She gave it back, "Keep it. Pretty sure a guy with your charm can find a way to have them for free anyway."
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2010-07-06, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)JadakissGuest in the Playground
Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
My character!
SpoilerName: Landa~Ora
Rank: Fraccion to the Septima.
Gender: Female
Age: 276 (Looks 17)
Height: 4'11"
Weight: 89 lbs.
Speech color: Plum
Reiatsu: Ivory, feels like snowflakes, and the temperature in the atmosphere drops slightly.
Zanpakuto: Blade Of Light. A straight edge katana with no guard. The weapon is very simple, with a velvet soft purple wrapping on the hilt. The letters LO are inscribed in her hand on the flat of the blade 2'' from the tip.
Resurreccion: Magnificent radiance, Espada de Luz!
after her release command, Landa's eyes immediately roll back and put off a bright purple light. Within a second she becomes completely engulfed in purple light. The radiant flash is blinding to any who see it, leaving Landa's enemies momentarily awestruck. When the light is gone, Landa is standing, mostly herself though with a purple striped white tail, that of a bengal tiger. She also has purple markings on her mask, framing the eyes. The purple light when she releases encompasses the viewer(s), making them haggard and numbing the muscles, thus slowing the enemy slightly. This effect lasts until she suppresses her power or is incapacitated. Although it's difficult to time, the light can be avoided if the Enemy covers their eyes before Landa uses this power.
She retains her Zanpakuto in this form. Her speed and strength are increased greatly in her resurrecion, with minor increases to her bala and cero.
Apperance: Landa~Ora is small, almost child-sized. Purple is her color. Piercing purple eyes, that seem to look straight through anyone or anything. A button nose, gingerly placed under a simple white mask, that outlines Landa's eyes. Cropped purple hair falls at her ears, with bangs gently pushed to the side, and her lips remain pursed into a sweet smile. Her slender face leads to a thin neck, wrapped with a necklace, a simple gold chain with a purple stone pendant. Landa~Ora has thin shoulders, draped with a white laced cover that hides her deep purple corset (which hides her hollow hole in her left ribcage.) The corset falls just low enough to tease the eyes with her medium bust. Her shoulders blossom out to two lanky arms, garnished with bangles. Small hands are to follow, wielding her Zanpakuto. Landa's thighs are covered by a tight, short, white leather skirt. Short legs lead to delicate feet, dressed in white sandles.
Personality: The smile that's been stamped onto the mouth of the lovely Landa~Ora isn't for show, she is a very bubbly, cheerful person. Although she is sweet, Landa is very cunning. Taking advantage of her Resurreccion to attack while the enemy is stunned, and using her appealing looks as an asset in dealing with others.
Abilities:
Cero: Landa fires a purple cero from either hand. It is of average power though travels slightly faster than average.
Bala: Landa's bala is also purple, though otherwise unremarkable. She uses her bala more than cero.
Pasquisa: Very non precise. Landa uses it in order to not be jumped during a fight, as it is otherwise weak. It is capable of keeping track of multiple opponents though not with pinpoint accuracy.
Unarmed: Used less often than her sword, her unarmed attacks are still a force to be reckoned with. Sereg has taught her personally to fight unarmed, stating that it could save her life.
Sword: Landa mostly uses her sword while fighting, as she rather likes seeing her enemy bleed. She uses fast and brutal attacks, often ignoring her own safety in order to get the upper hand. She is extremely adept at fighting one on one.
Garganta: Average for her level. She often uses her garganta to transport Sereg.
Sonido: Faster than average, she can only use it a few times in succession, saving her energy for fighting or following Sereg.
Hierro: Slightly below average, able to block the attacks of most unseated or low seated shinigami. She is able to localize it on her skin, though not as much as Sereg.
Regeneration: Landa kept her regeneration, though it is slightly weaker than average. She can easily heal over time, though most of the time she cannot heal during a fight.
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2010-07-06, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
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2010-07-06, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
In that case, we might as well go with:
If you need advice, contact three of the following:
- Callos_DeTerran
- Sucrose
- Zarah
- Kasanip
- Frozen_Feet
- Draken
- Edge
- strawberryman
- KnightDisciple
Ie. faction leaders, + KD because he's closest thing to Enclave leader I can think of who wasn't already on the list.Last edited by Frozen_Feet; 2010-07-06 at 08:25 PM.
"It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2010-07-06, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
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2010-07-06, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I'd be willing to look at characters as well, if you RP'ers would be willing to trust me.
Edit: Next OOC should we have the list Frozen suggested? Just to keep it easily findable?Last edited by riccaru; 2010-07-06 at 08:28 PM.
Sir Dan Avatar by Mrgone!
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2010-07-06, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Returned from the pre-mentioned (a looong time ago) weekish long absence.
You can imagine the groan when I discovered that things were booting up a few days before I was to leave.
Also considering trying my hand at a mortal character... The actual plawt looks like it's about ready to gear up, so I'll still be able to get in fast before the hammer drops should all go well.
I'm going to run through the bios for the various mortal characters again to make sure I avoid any abilities that have already been taken. I've got a few ideas, but I want to be sure I'm not stepping on anyone's toes.
That said, anything specific the OOC thinks I should keep in mind?Warning! Random Encounter™ detected!
The Eternal Game Nightmære Stuff
It doesn't matter whether you win or lose, just how awesome you look doing it.
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2010-07-06, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
Last edited by Frozen_Feet; 2010-07-06 at 08:29 PM.
"It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2010-07-06, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
People should offer to be on the list. If anyone doesn't want to be on the list, they should be allowed. Someone looking to contact members of the list doesn't need to contact everyone anyways.
I'm not sure about Zarah only because Zarah expressed not being super-involved with this game for a while. So it might be better to contact more active players.
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2010-07-06, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-06, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
I suppose that the modified proposal is all right by me, so long as we accept that this process doesn't imply total acceptance, but provides the opportunity to at least reveal it in the IC threads prior to the required OoC acceptance.
In other news,
Welcome to the game. For the most part, I like Landa. The only real complaint I have is this:
The radiant flash is blinding to any who see it, leaving Landa's enemies momentarily awestruck.
This keeps the same idea, but leaves the other characters' players the opportunity to decide whether their characters are blinded or not. I'm guessing this is a minor distinction, but it's nonetheless somewhat significant, in my opinion.
Edit: I can maintain the go-to list.Last edited by Sucrose; 2010-07-06 at 08:34 PM.
My Unitarian Jihad name is Brother Rail Gun of Sweet Reason. Get yours!
Thanks to Cealocanth and PersonalSavior for my avatars!Spoiler
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2010-07-06, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-06, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9
My Unitarian Jihad name is Brother Rail Gun of Sweet Reason. Get yours!
Thanks to Cealocanth and PersonalSavior for my avatars!Spoiler
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2010-07-06, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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