Bibliography II

[HalfTangible]

Get well soon, Elagune. You too, HalfTangible.

...
No.
Just no.

Better than staying human and getting phased into a permanent background fixture. The sanguine codex has been mentioned already so it'll probably show up in SOME form or fashion. Then there's the thirst for blood thing, it was just too good of a set up

[EternalMelon]

Better than staying human and getting phased into a permanent background fixture. The sanguine codex has been mentioned already so it'll probably show up in SOME form or fashion. Then there's the thirst for blood thing, it was just too good of a set up

I never said she couldn't be a page or WBW holder, just that I expressed my opinion of jumping on the vampire band wagon.

Oh, and get well soon. Both of you.

[HalfTangible]

I never said she couldn't be a page or WBW holder, just that I expressed my opinion of jumping on the vampire band wagon.

I didn't mean sparkly!

Oh, and get well soon. Both of you.

*seething* Just. Elagune.

I. Am. FINE.

[Fable Wright]

I didn't mean sparkly!

*seething* Just. Elagune.

I. Am. FINE.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Even if she wasn't a 'sparkly' vampire, what type would she be?

Following vampire mythos, she would still have to belong to a bloodline, probably, and have codex duties for the particular subsection of the Vampire codex that recruited her. Vampires are almost always supposed to be loyal to those higher up (possibly a codex drawback, along with blood dependency), which is why intrigue/espionage is big in vampire stories; you need to keep climbing the social ladder if you want a semblance of free will. If she would join the vampire codex, following this train of logic, she would get less and less screen time, having to carry out missions for the patriarchs of whatever bloodline she was recruited into.

Either that, or she's a 'sparkly vampire'. Either way, I don't think it would be good for Satomi to be a vampire. Much better that she just becomes a librarian.

[Revlid]

Page 17

New page up.

Been delayed a bit.

...
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I had the Character Concept thread on auto-update, but that particular forum-function is schizophrenic as all hell. This is the first notice I had of one of my characters being accepted.
I don't believe I can articulate my feelings regarding this turn of events without paraphrasing Knives Chau when talking about Mr. Pilgrim.
No doubt Garnie is using the cover offered by his fringe to busily ogle the anonymous owner of the breasticles dominating the top panel.

EDIT: Holy shotglass, I've missed a bit. This is beyond awesome. Officially.
I like the evil Mickey.

[HalfTangible]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Oh so because my idea is weird to you, i'm sick and/or crazy?

I'M NOT CRAZY! YOU'RE CRAZY!! ESPECIALLY YOU NAPPA!!!!!

Even if she wasn't a 'sparkly' vampire, what type would she be?

Following vampire mythos, she would still have to belong to a bloodline, probably, and have codex duties for the particular subsection of the Vampire codex that recruited her. Vampires are almost always supposed to be loyal to those higher up (possibly a codex drawback, along with blood dependency), which is why intrigue/espionage is big in vampire stories; you need to keep climbing the social ladder if you want a semblance of free will. If she would join the vampire codex, following this train of logic, she would get less and less screen time, having to carry out missions for the patriarchs of whatever bloodline she was recruited into.

Either that, or she's a 'sparkly vampire'. Either way, I don't think it would be good for Satomi to be a vampire. Much better that she just becomes a librarian.

The patriarch stuff would be cultural, something Satomi wouldn't need to get into =/ Also: she seems like she'd climb quickly even if weren't a choice

I'm not sure how well Satomi being a librarian would fit in here =/ Maybe it's just me but i got the impression Ben would be the only librarian of the group.

Different idea: Satomi could be a different kind of Pageiverse thing (besides librarians, abyssals and pages) we have yet to see.

[Fable Wright]

Oh so because my idea is weird to you, i'm sick and/or crazy?

I'M NOT CRAZY! YOU'RE CRAZY!! ESPECIALLY YOU NAPPA!!!!!

...Someone's in denial.

The patriarch stuff would be cultural, something Satomi wouldn't need to get into =/ Also: she seems like she'd climb quickly even if weren't a choice

Perhaps I used the wrong word. Either way... in vampire mythos, almost everyone agrees on the point that newly made vampires are completely loyal to the vampire that made them. So, what happens when those loyal underlings make more vampires? Those minions are loyal to the vampire who created them, but moreover loyal to the vampire above the vampire who made them. If you keep going up in each lineage, you run into a single figure that has complete control over an entire clan of vampires. They are (at least in my experience) known as "Patriarchs"; the ones who control an entire clan of vampires. That patriarch runs the whole clan. This vampire is usually incredibly old and powerful, and needs to be in order to manage the clan. If the patriarch dies, then each vampire directly loyal to him becomes free, and starts their own clan. As the patriarch has to survive alot of assassination attempts by his underlings, he has to have a large amount of experience in combat and other survival techniques. This figure is, after a time, usually left alone. In addition, they make it a point to limit the number of underlings underneath them that would stand to gain directly from his death; otherwise, the secondary lords might all gang up on him. However, limiting it to two or three underlings gives him an advantage, as the underlings below them do not stand to directly gain from the patriarch's death, and in fact stand to lose the patriarch's protection. Thus, the patriarch assigns the whole mess a hierarchy, with him having 2-3 lieutenants, each of them having 2-4 underlings, each of them having 3-5 underlings etc. until you have the rank and file. Low-ranking vampires have to obey the commands of nearly every other vampire in the clan, an so they assume higher rank. If a vampire's master is killed, most likely, the vampire above the master has forced the minions to obey him in the case of the master's death, and so the minions are forced into the service of the next vampire up. This vampire also subdivides his troops, to keep them trying to kill each other rather than try to kill him. That head vampire usually makes the minions directly under him the most powerful of all his minions, so that his direct underlings cannot manipulate the more powerful vampire into killing him. When the vampire is directly under him, he can at least force the vampire to not attack him, whereas the vampire below him cannot give contradictory orders to the vampire, and allow more loopholes to be exploited. This causes the more powerful vampires to sift to the top in societies. Also, due to orders made so that vampires cannot kill the ones above them, underlings are often used as pawns for the more powerful vampires to use in their games for supremacy. Thus, vampires are usually locked into internal power games, either being used as pawns, or using pawns. Satomi would begin at the bottom of the line, and would have to work her way up. She wouldn't have any free time, as she is almost definitely going to be used, and will be sucked up into vampire politics, limiting her appearances throughout the series. To advance to the point where she has free time in the series, she would have to take out alot of powerful vampires in increasingly elaborate schemes in order to have any face time in the series.

To recap: Patriarchy, in this case, is not a cultural thing. It is a very real part of who the vampires are, and their utter lack of free time. It would take her a long time to regain a role in the series (assuming Elagune sticks to this as a general outline of vampire politics). It is impossible to climb quickly, as you have dozens of peers who want you out of the way of their plots, and dozens of underlings who want you dead. Satomi probably won't be a vampire.

However, this is just the general mythos of vampires in my experience, and may be changed or completely disregarded by Elagune, as he sees fit.

I'm not sure how well Satomi being a librarian would fit in here =/ Maybe it's just me but i got the impression Ben would be the only librarian of the group.

Different idea: Satomi could be a different kind of Pageiverse thing (besides librarians, abyssals and pages) we have yet to see.

Maybe. Possibly she remains human, but doesn't get a whitebox weapon or a codex. And somehow, through training, amasses enough power to deal damage to pages/librarians.

[HalfTangible]

...Someone's in denial.

So first i'm sick, then i'm crazy, now i'm secretly in love? What, am i a super-intelligent toilet seat that nobody left down too?

Perhaps I used the wrong word. Either way... in vampire mythos, almost everyone agrees on the point that newly made vampires are completely loyal to the vampire that made them. So, what happens when those loyal underlings make more vampires? Those minions are loyal to the vampire who created them, but moreover loyal to the vampire above the vampire who made them. If you keep going up in each lineage, you run into a single figure that has complete control over an entire clan of vampires. They are (at least in my experience) known as "Patriarchs"; the ones who control an entire clan of vampires. That patriarch runs the whole clan. This vampire is usually incredibly old and powerful, and needs to be in order to manage the clan. If the patriarch dies, then each vampire directly loyal to him becomes free, and starts their own clan. As the patriarch has to survive alot of assassination attempts by his underlings, he has to have a large amount of experience in combat and other survival techniques. This figure is, after a time, usually left alone. In addition, they make it a point to limit the number of underlings underneath them that would stand to gain directly from his death; otherwise, the secondary lords might all gang up on him. However, limiting it to two or three underlings gives him an advantage, as the underlings below them do not stand to directly gain from the patriarch's death, and in fact stand to lose the patriarch's protection. Thus, the patriarch assigns the whole mess a hierarchy, with him having 2-3 lieutenants, each of them having 2-4 underlings, each of them having 3-5 underlings etc. until you have the rank and file. Low-ranking vampires have to obey the commands of nearly every other vampire in the clan, an so they assume higher rank. If a vampire's master is killed, most likely, the vampire above the master has forced the minions to obey him in the case of the master's death, and so the minions are forced into the service of the next vampire up. This vampire also subdivides his troops, to keep them trying to kill each other rather than try to kill him. That head vampire usually makes the minions directly under him the most powerful of all his minions, so that his direct underlings cannot manipulate the more powerful vampire into killing him. When the vampire is directly under him, he can at least force the vampire to not attack him, whereas the vampire below him cannot give contradictory orders to the vampire, and allow more loopholes to be exploited. This causes the more powerful vampires to sift to the top in societies. Also, due to orders made so that vampires cannot kill the ones above them, underlings are often used as pawns for the more powerful vampires to use in their games for supremacy. Thus, vampires are usually locked into internal power games, either being used as pawns, or using pawns. Satomi would begin at the bottom of the line, and would have to work her way up. She wouldn't have any free time, as she is almost definitely going to be used, and will be sucked up into vampire politics, limiting her appearances throughout the series. To advance to the point where she has free time in the series, she would have to take out alot of powerful vampires in increasingly elaborate schemes in order to have any face time in the series.

To recap: Patriarchy, in this case, is not a cultural thing. It is a very real part of who the vampires are, and their utter lack of free time. It would take her a long time to regain a role in the series (assuming Elagune sticks to this as a general outline of vampire politics). It is impossible to climb quickly, as you have dozens of peers who want you out of the way of their plots, and dozens of underlings who want you dead. Satomi probably won't be a vampire.

The problem with this way of looking at it is that Vampires in this Mythos don't make more vampires, the codex does. So if such a hierarchy exists it has to be either cultural or stereotyped.

Maybe. Possibly she remains human, but doesn't get a whitebox weapon or a codex. And somehow, through training, amasses enough power to deal damage to pages/librarians.

I was thinking an experiment on artifical pages or-

... wow. I just realized two things about that statement: one is how incredibly stupid it is, and the other is that i wasn't actually thinking it before i started typing it up.

My actual idea was a sort of Aura Nullifier - someone who can negate the spells of a page, at least enough for the person to survive =/ Either through personal aura resistance or something like one of those veil artifacts.

[Fable Wright]

So first i'm sick, then i'm crazy, now i'm secretly in love? What, am i a super-intelligent toilet seat that nobody left down too?

You're denying the madness. Denial is just part of any negative affliction. Like grief, madness, love, etc.

The problem with this way of looking at it is that Vampires in this Mythos don't make more vampires, the codex does. So if such a hierarchy exists it has to be either cultural or stereotyped.

Simple adaptation: Once a vampire drains blood from a human, their aura is changed, and they are allowed to join the vampire codex. Unless you are fit to join the codex, this bite drains you all the way. If you survive, the vampire brings you to the codex, and after you join, you are forced to obey your recruiter. Hence, you join the system.

Again, this may or may not be how it works. But it may explain why vampires are described as attractive; they need to be in order to get people to join their codex under them.

I was thinking an experiment on artifical pages or-

... wow. I just realized two things about that statement: one is how incredibly stupid it is, and the other is that i wasn't actually thinking it before i started typing it up.

My actual idea was a sort of Aura Nullifier - someone who can negate the spells of a page, at least enough for the person to survive =/ Either through personal aura resistance or something like one of those veil artifacts.

Ben's weapon = nullifies page powers. And then shoot the powers back. Satomi is overshadowed by Ben, if that is that case.

[Jokasti]

Satomi is eclipsed by Ben, if that is that case.

groan
Couldn't have said overshadowed or something?

[Fable Wright]

groan
Couldn't have said overshadowed or something?

...*facepalm*
I'll go fix that... rest assured, pun not intended.

[Jokasti]

Did some quick fanart cause I'm tired and remembered I promised some earlier.
Warning: NSFW:

Spoiler

Show

I call it "Winter" to contrast with Elagune's "Summer"

Spoiler

Show

It's funny because Canada is covered in 50 inches of snow year-round, eh?
I'll do a more serious thing... sometime.

[Creed]

Did some quick fanart cause I'm tired and remembered I promised some earlier.
Warning: NSFW:

Spoiler

Show

I call it "Winter" to contrast with Elagune's "Summer"

Spoiler

Show

It's funny because Canada is covered in 50 inches of snow year-round, eh?
I'll do a more serious thing... sometime.

WIN!

[Prime32]

Or maybe Satomi becomes a martial artist who can make people explode by touching them?

[HalfTangible]

You're denying the madness. Denial is just part of any negative affliction. Like grief, madness, love, etc.

I have never been so tempted in my entire life to smash my computer screen.

Simple adaptation: Once a vampire drains blood from a human, their aura is changed, and they are allowed to join the vampire codex. Unless you are fit to join the codex, this bite drains you all the way. If you survive, the vampire brings you to the codex, and after you join, you are forced to obey your recruiter. Hence, you join the system.

Again, this may or may not be how it works. But it may explain why vampires are described as attractive; they need to be in order to get people to join their codex under them.

From the looks of it, the only thing you really need to do to join a codex is to meet the spirit of said codex and have it say 'okay'. There wouldn't be any recruiters in that case, so there'd be nobody to serve.

Also: i was JOKING

Ben's weapon = nullifies page powers. And then shoot the powers back. Satomi is overshadowed by Ben, if that is that case.

Good point. Something else, then.

[rocketpony]

/fanart

WAIT
Off to the left in that picture, standing a little behind Eve

IS THAT OPAL :O

I THINK THAT'S OPAL :D :D :D

[Owrtho]

DMofDarkness, you seem to have an extremely limited view of vampires from what I can tell. Specifically, your knowledge of them seems to extend about as far as Bram Stoker, but sounds more like Hollywood Vampires. Dracula was horribly inaccurate when compared to the various vampire mythologies. Most didn't even spread through being attacked by another vampire, but rather various other things, making ech vampire an entity unto itself. Vampires usually were the result of things like having a cat jump over your corpse, being buried the wrong way, someone cursing you, demons, sinning, etc. While there were some that spread by vampire attack, they were not the only way (and likely were less than half). Also the whole 'vampires subservant to the one who made them' thing seems to have been started by Dracula as well, though I may be wrong on that part.

Owrtho

[Maximum Zersk]

Did some quick fanart cause I'm tired and remembered I promised some earlier.
Warning: NSFW:

Spoiler

Show

I call it "Winter" to contrast with Elagune's "Summer"

Spoiler

Show

-Picture has been covered in snow-

It's funny because Canada is covered in 50 inches of snow year-round, eh?
I'll do a more serious thing... sometime.

Call that snowy? In Canada, during the summer we get at least that amount of snow on the warm days! During our cold days, we have made a fortress out of the compact snow, one that is controlled by Canadian Physics! And we used it to CONQUER THE WORLD!

Be vary wary, for we are always watching.

[licoot]

@ Owtho, I wouldn't say DMofDarkness has a limited view of vampires, since pop culture has changed vampires to the way we see them today, so you really thing werewolves have always been depicted as they are now, or mermen, they are all simply stories which are changed and morphed over time, depictions in modern films and books are just one of those steps, in 300 years time, it's entirely possible that someone would pick up a vampire book from today, and think that their modern version was small minded

EDIT: also, yay Dwarf Fortress

[HalfTangible]

@ Owtho, I wouldn't say DMofDarkness has a limited view of vampires, since pop culture has changed vampires to the way we see them today, so you really thing werewolves have always been depicted as they are now, or mermen, they are all simply stories which are changed and morphed over time, depictions in modern films and books are just one of those steps, in 300 years time, it's entirely possible that someone would pick up a vampire book from today, and think that their modern version was small minded

EDIT: also, yay Dwarf Fortress

He's treating his idea of vampires as the only possible thing to adapt a story from. That's a limited view, whether or not it's changed to become wider in the past 300 years.

[Maximum Zersk]

But if vampires are shown, they must have something to do with squash. And feet-licking. And stuff like that.

Some vampire myths are weird.

EDIT: also, yay Dwarf Fortress

[Fable Wright]

DMofDarkness, you seem to have an extremely limited view of vampires from what I can tell. Specifically, your knowledge of them seems to extend about as far as Bram Stoker, but sounds more like Hollywood Vampires. Dracula was horribly inaccurate when compared to the various vampire mythologies. Most didn't even spread through being attacked by another vampire, but rather various other things, making ech vampire an entity unto itself. Vampires usually were the result of things like having a cat jump over your corpse, being buried the wrong way, someone cursing you, demons, sinning, etc. While there were some that spread by vampire attack, they were not the only way (and likely were less than half). Also the whole 'vampires subservant to the one who made them' thing seems to have been started by Dracula as well, though I may be wrong on that part.

Owrtho

Yes, I agree that my view of vampires is not all-inclusive. I know that there were a bunch of different myths that varied from culture to culture. However, if we base all of our assumptions on all of the various different vampire myths, then we don't get a unified answer. As described in the series, it claims that there are a huge variety of legends and myths to describe a single event. One, none, or all could be right. It all depends on where you come from. If we look at the public's current views on vampires, you'll probably get alot of responses that differentiate based on who you're asking. Ask one person, you get twilight vampires. Ask another, you get the mindless bloodsucking fiends. Ask a stereotypical RPG nerd, and you would probably get a similar answer to the one I gave. I did note that this was my opinions on vampire based off my experience, in the way that they might make an interesting subplot and not be mindless killers. I admit, I may well be wrong about how the vampires are portrayed in bibliography. I just presented a logical version of non-sparkly vampires that might fit with the plot, with some possible leads to go off of that might make for an interesting part of the storyline, that would cover various different flaws for the vampires to portray. I agree, my view was one of many, but I chose to share my view which I feel might mesh with the plot. Again, I admit I may be wrong about them.

@ Owtho, I wouldn't say DMofDarkness has a limited view of vampires, since pop culture has changed vampires to the way we see them today, so you really thing werewolves have always been depicted as they are now, or mermen, they are all simply stories which are changed and morphed over time, depictions in modern films and books are just one of those steps, in 300 years time, it's entirely possible that someone would pick up a vampire book from today, and think that their modern version was small minded

I agree. Ask people from different time periods, and they'll all give you different views on vampires. Again, I stated that my view might not be how they were portrayed, but I felt that, to me, that was the most plausible explanation that might mesh with the story.

He's treating his idea of vampires as the only possible thing to adapt a story from. That's a limited view, whether or not it's changed to become wider in the past 300 years.

No. I'm not. I'm displaying what I feel might be a good/logical way for them to be represented. The intrigues of the vampire races/houses/courts has inspired many roleplaying games, plots, and subplots over the years, and so I felt that it might be a good source of inspiration for Elagune's representation of vampires in the series; it certainly makes for an interesting and entertaining one, so I felt that it would be the best view to be expressed. I understand if it doesn't fit with your views on vampires. It's just my opinion. It is my no means the only possible mythos for vampires. Sorry if I offended you, but it's how I view them is a storyline/setting.

[ref]

Well, HalfTanglible... you said you were getting sick.

[EternalMelon]

Awww... since Elangune is sick we don't get an awesome Thanks-Giving picture of Eve devouring a whole turkey

[Owrtho]

Yes, ... story.

While you did mention that it was just your own idea of how it might work, the way you responded with it made it sound as if other ideas were unlikely (even if that was not your intent). Also, while it is true that vampire myths are not unified, it seems that given how the myths are based on the Pages, the codex would be closer to traditional vampire myths than to Hollywood vampires, or other modern spins on them. Also there quite possibly could be more than one 'vampire' codex, given that the term vampire refers to a wide range of creatures linked mainly by their manner of gaining sustenance by draining humans (for example succubi/incubi and ghuls have been considered vampires as have rakshas).

No. I'm not. I'm displaying what I feel might be a good/logical way for them to be represented. The intrigues of the vampire races/houses/courts has inspired many roleplaying games, plots, and subplots over the years, and so I felt that it might be a good source of inspiration for Elagune's representation of vampires in the series; it certainly makes for an interesting and entertaining one, so I felt that it would be the best view to be expressed. I understand if it doesn't fit with your views on vampires. It's just my opinion. It is my no means the only possible mythos for vampires. Sorry if I offended you, but it's how I view them is a storyline/setting.

While it might be true that it can form interesting stories, it is also one that would likely take more than just a subplot. Hence why they usually have stories of their own, rather than just being a side facet.

Owrtho

[Jokasti]

Awww... since Elangune is sick we don't get an awesome Thanks-Giving picture of Eve devouring a whole turkey

Thanksgiving is on the fourth Tuesday of November....
Which calendar are you using?

[Maximum Zersk]

The Canadian one maybe? Over here, Thanksgiving is tomorrow, or something.

[chionophile]

Thanksgiving is on the fourth Tuesday of November....
Which calendar are you using?

It's the fourth Thursday of November in America and the second Monday in October in Canada. Canadians are weird. Srsly.

[Jokasti]

It's the fourth Thursday of November in America and the second Monday in October in Canada. Canadians are weird. Srsly.

You're right, my b.

[Maximum Zersk]

Canadians are weird. Srsly.

Took you long enough to figure out.