Results 1 to 30 of 38
-
2010-12-02, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- The summoning chamber
- Gender
[D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
So I am having trouble making this choice.
The character is an elven wizard with substitution level for 1st and the domain wizard ACF.
I am building toward the Incantrix class but having a tough time settling on a school to bar. I am focusing mostly on God style of play with heavy debuffs and control, with some party buffing as backup.
My first thought and most common leaning is to bar Evocation since there are not a lot of *must have* spells for that playstyle there and there are other ways to get some access to evo such as shadow evocation and such.
Just wanted to see what the playground thinks about this and if anyone has any points of view that I may have missed on this subject.A man who dies fighting with his principles intact dies in glory. To expect enemies to follow the same code of honor defiles that honor, reducing it to a set of arbitrary rules.
-
2010-12-02, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Evocation, definitely. If you've got access to Incantatrix, you've probably got access to Spell Compendium, and Conjuration spells can do everything Evocation can and more. Plus, if you really really need a specific Evocation spell, there's the Shadow lines as you mentioned.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
-
2010-12-02, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
For my Incantatrix build I am going to use for a game, I chose to ban Necromancy. Yeah, I know, Necromancy has the cool drain levels type spells that can do some serious damage, but it really doesn't have anything in the way of control or buffing. Now obviously with the more splat you add to the mix, the better the Necromancy spells you can get, but this is true with all the schools. Just my two cp.
-
2010-12-02, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
All the schools except Evocation. There's only so many different ways you can deal 1d6/level damage, and the school runs out pretty fast. Hence why it's probably the most economical to ban, since the only thing it does that can't be imitated is Contingency, and Craft Contingent Spell takes that away too.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
-
2010-12-02, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Agreed, Contingency is the only spell that's missed from Evocation by God. Necromancy has a ton of great debuffs, especially if you're good at ranged touch attacks (which I'm guessing you are as an elf).
If you can't bear to be without Contingency and you don't have access to the Craft Contingent Spell feat, you might also consider Enchantment. Unless you're the face of the group, Enchantment doesn't offer a whole lot. Don't get me wrong, it has a lot of neat tricks in it, but I've never found myself preparing an Enchantment spell that couldn't easily be replaced by another spell (again, don't get rid of Enchantment if you are the party face).
-
2010-12-02, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Department of Smiting
- Gender
-
2010-12-02, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
In Evocation's defense, Wind Wall, Wall of Force and Forcecage can provide some of the best battlefield control around.
Shadow Evocation is sort of nice but these spells in particular are multiple spell levels below the Shadow Evocation or Greater Shadow Evocation needed to cast them (wind wall four levels too late? wall of force six levels too late? Does this sound like a proper substitute?) and instead of "you lose, no save", they become "Will save every time they interact with it negates its effect", AKA garbage for the higher-level spell slots you're using to cast them.Last edited by FMArthur; 2010-12-02 at 09:19 PM.
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
-
2010-12-02, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Location
- The summoning chamber
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Yeah, contingency and a few nice gems like this was enough to make me think twice about banning evo, and just wanted to get some outside opinions. Going to have to see if I can find a good listing by level. Treantmonks post with comparisons of spells is great, but it is broken down by school and spread over many pages. A great resource, but tough to look at each level and compare options if a specific school is cut from the picture. And paging through like 5+ different books isn't much more complete of a picture, heh.
A man who dies fighting with his principles intact dies in glory. To expect enemies to follow the same code of honor defiles that honor, reducing it to a set of arbitrary rules.
-
2010-12-02, 10:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
There's a thread floating around on how evocation isn't actually that bad of a school, and there are some very worthwhile spells in it.
-
2010-12-02, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
The only one I know made by a poster with a good reputation is Treantmonklvl20's analysis of God's tools: http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...ls:_Gods_tools
Basically:
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
-
2010-12-02, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
I went focused specialist conjurer incantatrix and banned evocation, enchantment, illusion, and necromancy
Last edited by Defiant; 2010-12-02 at 11:14 PM.
-
2010-12-02, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
-
2010-12-03, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Incantatrix is the one that says, "You can still use spells from your banned school if you already knew them, you just can't learn more." Right?
If so, totally drop Necromancy. Just wait to enter the PrC until you already know Enervation. Necromancy has nothing at Level 5+ that you'll really miss.You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
-
2010-12-03, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
-
2010-12-03, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
I usually ban Evocation. If you REALLY need something from Evo, there's always that Faerun feat that lets you learn a single spell from a prohibited school. (Forcecage)
-
2010-12-03, 04:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
You can write spells in your spellbook that you can't cast yet. So writhe forcecage, wall of force and contingency, then go incantatrix and ban evocation.
-
2010-12-03, 05:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
I find that while Enchantment has wonderful effects, the whole mind affecting business makes it a very ban-worthy school, especially at higher levels.
Originally Posted by The Giant
-
2010-12-03, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Perhaps surprisingly, Abjuration is easy to drop. The only thing you'll really miss from there is Dispel Magic, which the party druid, cleric, or warlock can cover for.
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2010-12-03, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Gender
-
2010-12-03, 06:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Is Dragon Magazine material available?
Diversified Casting feat (Dragon #325): Pick three spells from a banned school and add them to your spell list.
This takes the sting out of evocation (contingency, sending, explosive runes) or necromancy (enervation, avasculate, necrotic skull bomb).Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
-
2010-12-03, 06:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
IF you really need certain Evocation spells, Shadow Evocation and it's improved versions can handle most of that.
Resident Vancian Apologist
-
2010-12-03, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2010-12-03, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Well, it depends highly on which level or levels you're going to be playing at. The notion that Enchantment is all-too-easily blocked by mental-immunity is simply not true at low levels. Then again, the notion that Evocation can be completely duplicated by the Shadow Evocation spell is really not true at low levels, either.
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2010-12-03, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
At low levels enchantment has other problems, notably creature-type mismatch and language barriers. Charm Person is useless against Ogres, and Suggestion is useless against Troglodytes (unless perhaps you're a wizard.)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2010-12-03, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
-
2010-12-03, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Somerville, MA
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Depends on the version. IIRC the 3.0 version (which is the less broken of the two) let you use already learned spells. The 3.5 one did not.
And yes, I agree that if this is the case, banning Necro after taking the good low level spells is an awesome choice. Otherwise, drop Evocation.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
-
2010-12-03, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Very, very poorly. Using higher level slots. Which, for the worthwhile Evocation spells, take an extra four or six Wizard levels to access. The only situation I can think of Shadow Evocation and its greater counterpart being at all worthwhile is Contingency, which is replicated earlier and better with a feat. If you're controlling the battlefield with it, Shadow Evocation's added clauses turn them into pure ineffective garbage. If you're blasting with it, what are you doing, man?
Real Evocations actually have some merit to them. Shadow Evocation is entirely worthless; don't spread misinformation. If you'd played a Wizard, banned Evocation and actually tried to substitute this line of spells (of which there are only two, at 5th level and 8th level) for any good Evocation spells you'd know how useless it is.
Yes, Evocation is easy to ban because good spells just aren't common enough on its list. But they do exist and you are giving up something when you ban it, it's not just a free pass where you trade nothing for something.Last edited by FMArthur; 2010-12-03 at 01:20 PM.
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
-
2010-12-03, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Location
- Iceland
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
On Craft Contingent Spell:
Do people actually use that one in-game?
The feat is utterly bat**** crazy. Having one, singular contingent spell is good enough to make people think twice about banning Evocation, that's how good the spell is.
CCS is better, by a multiplier equal to your level. And your party members serve as an additional multiplier.Halfling healer avatar by Akrim.elf.
My sarcasm is never blue.
Personal stuff: The Diablo 2 game (DMing), BBCode syntax highlighter for KDE
CharOp: Lists of Necessary Magic Items
Homebrew: My proudest achievement, a translation of vancian spellcasting to psionic mechanics. Other brew can be found in my Homebrewer's Extended Signature.
-
2010-12-03, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
-
2010-12-03, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Location
- Iceland
- Gender
Re: [D&D3.X] Incantrix, which school to bar?
Halfling healer avatar by Akrim.elf.
My sarcasm is never blue.
Personal stuff: The Diablo 2 game (DMing), BBCode syntax highlighter for KDE
CharOp: Lists of Necessary Magic Items
Homebrew: My proudest achievement, a translation of vancian spellcasting to psionic mechanics. Other brew can be found in my Homebrewer's Extended Signature.