Help me build a Paladin (Vengeance)

[FoxDropz]

Hello guys,

I need help building a Half-elf Paladin (Oath of Vengeance).
I've played a few times before with my friends, but Im really bad at creating characters. So I got a few questions, hope you can help me!
I wanna build a combat strong and useful paladin. I dont wanna multi-class.
The DM said we should grab stuff mostly from the PHB.

I'm trying to follow these 2 guides:
Good is Not Nice, A paladin's guide by EvilAnagram
My Word is My Sword: The Paladin Guide by GladiusLegis


1. The Race is going to be Half-elf and the Oath will be Vengeance.

2. Attributes:
DM is going to be Standard Array (15-14-13-12-10-8).
Im gonna go for the STR-based Paladin.
Should I go STR>CHA>CON>WIS>DEX>INT or STR>CHA>CON>DEX>WIS>INT?

3. Which skills should I take?

4. Backgrounds, any suggestions that synergize with the Oath of Vengeance?

5. Which Feats are the best to take?

6. What about spells?

7. What about weapons and gear?
Should I go Greatsword, Polearm, sword and shield?

Thanks a lot for the help! Every piece of knowledge you give me will be awesome!
If there is more information you need, let me know!

[Finney]

If you are dead set on not multi-classing and your dungeon master will allow you to pick feats from XGtE, I would go dexterity > strength as a half-elf for two reasons:

1. Your character will have a way to generate advantage at-will via Vow of Emnity, with channel divinity recharging on a short rest - always a bonus, in my opinion.

2. Vow of Emnity synergizes with Elven Accuracy (which doesn't work with strength attacks) to help you score critical hits, which then lets you unload with massive Divine Smites.

[EvilAnagram]

I'm glad you liked my guide.

1. Good choice.

2. Wis>Dex for sure.

3. Athletics enables you to effectively grapple enemies, which can be extremely debilitating for them, as I can attest as a DM. Aside from that, a charisma skill of some kind. Intimidation is thematic

4. Acolyte if you're a religious assassin, criminal if you're trying to reform, hermit if you're just a weirdo.

5. I have nothing to add that my guide doesnt cover. shrug

6. You get to switch spells every day. Take Bless and any three other spells, and you'll be fine. Switch them out as you go until you figure out what you like.

7. Sword and shield have ancillary uses other than damage (Shield Master, ftw!) but the other two are basically fine. Polearms are better if you have Polearm Master, but otherwise both are fine. Don't sweat it.

[Specter]

2. In general, WIS over DEX. In heavy armor, your stealth is gone to hell, anyway.

3. Athletics, and the rest according to your character's story.

4. Whichever. You should take a background based on your character's story. None of them are bad.

5. For Vengeance, Great Weapon Master is good, because you can use Vow of Enmity to have advantage against one enemy. Polearm Master is another good one.

6. Your oath spells are great, to the point where you don't have to worry too much about the regular ones. Pick a smite spell for strategy (like Branding Smite), Shield of Faith for uber AC and Revivify if you have the cash. The rest will depend on the situation.

7.Vengeance gets damaging spells and advantage through Channel Divinity, so I say favor big hitters. But nothing wrong with sword-and-board, especially with Shield Master.

[sithlordnergal]

Without multiclassing I would as a Half Elf I would suggest:

Spoiler: Ability Scores

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Strength: 15 +1 from Half elf to make it 16

Dex: 8

Con: 13 +1 from Half Elf to make it 14

Int: 10

Wis: 12

Cha: 14 +2 from half elf to make it 16

Spoiler: Fighting Style/Weapons

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Your fighting style will majorly influence what gear you use. That said, I highly suggest the Defense Fighting Style mixed with a sword and shield. While +1 to AC may not seem like much,
it's essentially acting as a free +1 piece of armor. So once you get plate armor and a shield, you'll be rocking a 21 AC, and can boost it to 23 with Shield of Faith. You'll be a hard nut to crack for sure.

That said, ask your DM if he'd allow Tunnel Fighter from Unearthed Arcana. If he does, take it, Sentinel, and Pole Arm Mastery, drop the shield, and have so much fun.

Spoiler: Feats

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There are really only 3 feats I can suggest:
Sentinel

Pole Arm Mastery

Magic Initiate

Sentinel and Pole Arm Mastery go very well together, though Sentinel works just as well on it's own with a sword and shield user. Pole Arm Mastery just gives you a chance to make that attack of opportunity sooner rather then later. Again though, if your DM allows you to take Tunnel Fighter, you really want to get Sentinel AND Pole Arm Mastery for the unlimited Attacks of Opportunity and reach.

Magic Initiate is really there to give access to cantrips for decent ranged attacks. If taken, I suggest Chill Touch and Eldritch Blast from the Warlock spell list. Eldritch Blast is one of the best cantrips for a reason. Even in it's vanilla, non-Invocation boost form it's better then Fire Bolt. Chill Touch makes for a great back up. It can be fired just as far as Eldritch Blast, it deals necrotic damage which is rarely resisted, and it has not one, but two amazing riders. Hell, when fighting Undead, Chill Touch is better then Vicious Mockery because the undead have disadvantage on all attack rolls against you. As for why you should take both ranged attack cantrips, it's simple. Few things resist force damage, few things resist necrotic necrotic damage, I can't think of anything that resists Force and Necrotic damage at once.

Spoiler: Skills

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Honestly, the biggest skills you should 100% try to get are Athletics, Perception, and Medicine. Other then that, take what you want

Spoiler: Background

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This really depends on what sort of flavor you want to make your paladin. Holy Assassin for the Church, like Alexander Anderson from Hellsing? Make him an Acolyte. Killer out to save the World and save as many people as possible by killing off the bad guys? Outlander or Criminal. Anything works really.

Spoiler

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Spells are a bit complicated. You have to remember you can only concentrate one on spell at a time, and all your smite spells require concentration. Not to mention, smiting takes up spell slots so you want the biggest bang for your buck. As a Paladin player, I generally keep these spells ready at all times:

---1st Level Spells---

Command: Use it on flying creatues and command them to Grovel

Wrathful Smite: A lesser version of the Fear Spell. deals a nice 1d6 psychic damage, then it forces the target hit by it to make a Wisdom save. If they fail, they are now Frightened. But that's not the best part. The best part is how they end it. In order to break free of the spell, they have to use their action, that's right, their ACTION, to make a Wisdom check, again you saw that correctly, they make a Wisdom CHECK, vs. your Spell DC to end it. If there is a warlock who uses Hex, and gives disadvantage to Wisdom checks, they have disadvantage because it is a check. If there is a Lore Bard, they can use Cutting Words on this because it is a check, not a save

Shield of Faith: Mix this with the Defense Fighting Style for +3 to AC. You now nearly have the effects of the Shield spell up now. You're gonna be very hard to hit

---2nd Level Spells---

Branding Smite: This is the only smite spell that can be upcast and it makes any invisible creature hit by it visible. Which is so very good you have no idea.

EDIT: Heh, had to swap from my phone to a computer, so posted before this was done.

[FoxDropz]

your dungeon master will allow you to pick feats from XGtE.

Nah, he said only PHB

[FoxDropz]

I'm glad you liked my guide.

I did man! Its awesome and thanks for the tips!! =D

[sithlordnergal]

Nah, he said only PHB

Take Sentinel or Magic Initiate. You'll get a lot of run time with both of those.

[FoxDropz]

Also thanks Specter and sithlordnergal. Great info =D

[FoxDropz]

Take Sentinel or Magic Initiate. You'll get a lot of run time with both of those.

Hmm.. could explain me better the run time benefit? (sry for noobness)

[Specter]

Hmm.. could explain me better the run time benefit? (sry for noobness)

Magic Initiate can give you a ranged attack option, along with anything else you may want from a low-level caster. Sentinel is to make bad guys want to target you instead of frailer companions.

[sithlordnergal]

Hmm.. could explain me better the run time benefit? (sry for noobness)

As Spectre said, Magic Initiate will give you a ranged attack option, while Sentinel will make bad guys want to target you.

More specifically, you can use Magic Initiate to take Eldritch Blast and Chill Touch. Both of these cantrips can be snagged off the Warlock spell list, so you'll be able to use Charisma to cast them. They also do a respectable amount of damage, and Chill Touch has two excellent effects.

For comparison: A strength based Paladin's normal ranged attack are Javelins. These deal 1d6+Str mod, and have a range of 30/120. Meaning you have to be within 30 feet of a target to use them without disadvantage.

Eldritch Blast and Chill Touch have a range of 120. Eldritch Blast deals 1d10 Force damage while Chill Touch deals 1d8 Necrotic as you level up. At level 5, you can fire two bolts of Eldritch Blast, each doing 1d10 for a total of 2d10, and Chill Touch starts dealing 2d8.

Finally, you might be wondering why I say take Chill Touch and Eldritch Blast, even though it does less damage. Chill Touch has two rider effects: First, it prevents a target hit by it from healing for an entire turn. This may not come up often, but when it does you'll be glad to have it. Second, if you hit an undead with Chill Touch, they can't heal that turn and all their attacks against you have disadvantage.

Both of those give you a highly reliable pair of ranged attacks that will scale with character level, keeping them relevant for your entire carrier as a Paladin. The +1 spell is basically a bonus. Since you can only cast it once a day, I'd find something that lasts multiple days like Find Familiar.

---

As for Sentinel, you can use it to become a literal wall. If you get an attack of oppertunity on something trying to slip past you or run away, you will stop them in their tracks if you hit with your attack of oppertunity. If your allies get targeted by a attack, you can take an attack of oppertunity to remind the baddie that you're there and want to be smacked. And finally, if your DM likes to use disengage a lot to avoid those attacks of oppertunity, well Sentinel gets around this.

[FoxDropz]

As Spectre said, Magic Initiate will give you a ranged attack option, while Sentinel will make bad guys want to target you.

More specifically, you can use Magic Initiate to take Eldritch Blast and Chill Touch. Both of these cantrips can be snagged off the Warlock spell list, so you'll be able to use Charisma to cast them. They also do a respectable amount of damage, and Chill Touch has two excellent effects.

For comparison: A strength based Paladin's normal ranged attack are Javelins. These deal 1d6+Str mod, and have a range of 30/120. Meaning you have to be within 30 feet of a target to use them without disadvantage.

Eldritch Blast and Chill Touch have a range of 120. Eldritch Blast deals 1d10 Force damage while Chill Touch deals 1d8 Necrotic as you level up. At level 5, you can fire two bolts of Eldritch Blast, each doing 1d10 for a total of 2d10, and Chill Touch starts dealing 2d8.

Finally, you might be wondering why I say take Chill Touch and Eldritch Blast, even though it does less damage. Chill Touch has two rider effects: First, it prevents a target hit by it from healing for an entire turn. This may not come up often, but when it does you'll be glad to have it. Second, if you hit an undead with Chill Touch, they can't heal that turn and all their attacks against you have disadvantage.

Both of those give you a highly reliable pair of ranged attacks that will scale with character level, keeping them relevant for your entire carrier as a Paladin. The +1 spell is basically a bonus. Since you can only cast it once a day, I'd find something that lasts multiple days like Find Familiar.

---

As for Sentinel, you can use it to become a literal wall. If you get an attack of oppertunity on something trying to slip past you or run away, you will stop them in their tracks if you hit with your attack of oppertunity. If your allies get targeted by a attack, you can take an attack of oppertunity to remind the baddie that you're there and want to be smacked. And finally, if your DM likes to use disengage a lot to avoid those attacks of oppertunity, well Sentinel gets around this.

Thats really interesting. but do I need to multiclass to get the warlock spells?

[EvilAnagram]

Thats really interesting. but do I need to multiclass to get the warlock spells?

Magic Initiate gives you the spells

[FoxDropz]

Magic Initiate gives you the spells

ooh.. got it! That seems really useful! is it newbie-friendly during the game? I mean, the whole group is kinda noob.. only the GM plays regularly.

[sithlordnergal]

Yes, it is newbie friendly. ^_^ Once you take the feat you get to choose two cantrips and one first level spell that you can cast once per day. The only thing is that all the spells have to be from the same spell list, but Warlock can have you covered.

[FoxDropz]

Yes, it is newbie friendly. ^_^ Once you take the feat you get to choose two cantrips and one first level spell that you can cast once per day. The only thing is that all the spells have to be from the same spell list, but Warlock can have you covered.

awesome! thanks for the help

[FoxDropz]

Guys!

Im really stuck between Fighting Style/Weapons/Feats!!
Cant decide if I go for Great Weapon, Polearm or Shield Master!
The DM will stick to the book RAW, and only use the basic ones like PHB.
Could you guys explain me a little be more about the Pros and Cons of those styles? And which one do you recommend?

[coyote_sly]

Another feat that's really, really good for paladins is Resilient (CON). With CON proficiency, 16 CON, and the CHA mod to saves you can get auto successes on standard concentration checks, which is a godsend once you get big spells you want to keep up all fight like Aura of Vitality.

[FoxDropz]

Another feat that's really, really good for paladins is Resilient (CON). With CON proficiency, 16 CON, and the CHA mod to saves you can get auto successes on standard concentration checks, which is a godsend once you get big spells you want to keep up all fight like Aura of Vitality.

That would be like a higher level feat right? level 12 and beyond?

[Blood of Gaea]

Guys!

Im really stuck between Fighting Style/Weapons/Feats!!
Cant decide if I go for Great Weapon, Polearm or Shield Master!
The DM will stick to the book RAW, and only use the basic ones like PHB.
Could you guys explain me a little be more about the Pros and Cons of those styles? And which one do you recommend?

• +2 Strength: You'll gain +1 Accuracy and damage to every attack you make, your Athletics check also raises +1, which is good if you do any grappling, swimming, climbing, jumping, etc.
• +2 Cha: A bunch of Paladin abilities ping off this, the Aura of Protection is the most notable of them, benefiting both you and your party. Also bumps up social stats, which are extremely valuable, especially if no one else in the party is the "face".
• Polearm Master: The reliable bonus action attack is great, stacking on extra damage and potentially giving you a third smite in a turn, for those times when you need to lay down the hurt fast. The second abilities also let you get more AoO on average, so that will boost your damage over time a bit too.
• Great Weapon Master: -5 to hit +10 to damage is great, and combines well with the Vengeance Paladins ability to get advantage vs a creature. That said, at lower levels the -5 to hit hurts a lot more, and missing an attack means no chance to smite, which can really hurt. The bonus action actions shouldn't be discounted, but PAM will trigger it much more reliably.
• Sentinal: Grants you a good bit of control, so long as the current encounter has few creatures with minimal or no ranged attacks. The secondary and tertiary abilities also mean you'll trigger reaction attacks more often.