Netherese arcanist

[j_spencer93]

Working on fleshing out a villain who is pulling the strings in my campaign and found this class which fits his lore but am confused with one of its requirements:
Spells: Able to cast 13th-level arcane spells.
since no spell in 3.5 exists above 9 (epic are considered 10th) how is this even possible?

[OldTrees1]

A Heightened x4 Summon Monster IX is a 13th level spell.
To cast such a spell you would need to take the Epic Feat: Improved Spell Capacity 4 times.

Alternatively you could take the non epic feats: Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Versatile Spellcaster and Sanctum Spell. This would reduce the cost to taking the Epic Feat: Improved Spell Capacity 1 time.

[j_spencer93]

oh ya forgot about that feat actually. Answer was so simple. Thanks.

[vhfforever]

If I'm not mistaken, in 3.0 you could purchase higher level spell slots for the purpose of memorizing spells with metamagic modifiers that took them above 9th level. This may have held over into 3.5 but my personal rules for Epic Spellcasting are vastly different than what is in the books; so I don't know for certain.

Found it, Improved Spell Capacity.

[Emperor Tippy]

Working on fleshing out a villain who is pulling the strings in my campaign and found this class which fits his lore but am confused with one of its requirements:
Spells: Able to cast 13th-level arcane spells.
since no spell in 3.5 exists above 9 (epic are considered 10th) who is this even possible?

Technically yet it is. You need 13th level spell slots (from being Epic and taking the Improved Spell Capacity feat 4 times) and the Heighten Spell metamagic feat.

If you heighten a spell to 13th level (well two because of the spells requirement) then you meet the requirements for the class.

[Sith_Happens]

As a side-note, I'd personally never even think about actually using the Netherese Arcanist PrC. Its benefits are trivial compared to the cost of banning entire seeds.

[j_spencer93]

Thanks for clarifying that, another question though. He is a Nethril Wizard that was trapped in the plane of shadows when the city of shade was sent to that dimension and only recently arrived back on the material plane, wielding the shadow weave and worshiping shar. He plans to kill Mystra's best followers to prove Shar's supremacy, this should bring him into conflict with my party (oddly all worship Mystra).
would you want to play a session based on this (missions in my house usually take around 6 hours.)

[j_spencer93]

the Prc is simply flavor wise, the NPC its being used for is originally supposed to be a powerful wizard from that era and i thought it fit pretty well.

[Zanos]

You also need improved heighten spell to heighten a spell past ninth, so the "intended" entry for the class is something like:


Wiz 20/Epic Wizard 7

The class requires the "Improved Spellcasting" feat, which i don't think exists.

Other than that you need Improved Spell Capacity x4, and Improved Metamagic x 1, so you could take your first level of the class at 28, using your HD feats at 21,24, and 27, and your wizard bonus feats at 23 and 26.

Not that I'd recommend that.

[j_spencer93]

side note: sweet pic zanos.
And i realize it is not entirely great but like the class flavor. My player's do not munchkin or optimize greatly so not to worried about a optimized villain.

[Emperor Tippy]

Thanks for clarifying that, another question though. He is a Nethril Wizard that was trapped in the plane of shadows when the city of shade was sent to that dimension and only recently arrived back on the material plane, wielding the shadow weave and worshiping shar. He plans to kill Mystra's best followers to prove Shar's supremacy, this should bring him into conflict with my party (oddly all worship Mystra).
would you want to play a session based on this (missions in my house usually take around 6 hours.)

Epic Caster combat of any sort is not single mission stuff, its "entire campaign adventure" stuff.

Netherese Arcanist also means a minimum of (assuming no tricks for earlier entry) a level thirty or so full arcane caster. This isn't "Oh, I'm going to kill a few followers to prove my gods superiority" but instead "I'm going to go and beat up (and bind) half a dozen Lesser Deities so that I can use their power to block Mystra from interacting with the material plane for a thousand years (or "So I can redirect all prayers offered to her to Shar", or something similarly extreme).

Dealing with the PC's is as trivial as taking Ignore Material Components and spending a week or so throwing out Ice Assassin's of the PC's to kill them. Can your party beat themselves twice over? How about three times over? Or Four?

[j_spencer93]

he will be opposed by numerous others around his level, for one any wizard using the weave and looks down upon or thinks the shadow weave is evil.
He is actually planning on something bigger, but im ironing out the details of that right now to see how it works, eventually he wishes to become lord of magic on the material plane (maybe ascend to godhood but i try to avoid this)
Edit: oh and he also is weakened greatly for the time being, he just awoke from a stasis like state.

[Zanos]

he will be opposed by numerous others around his level, for one any wizard using the weave and looks down upon or thinks the shadow weave is evil.
He is actually planning on something bigger, but im ironing out the details of that right now to see how it works, eventually he wishes to become lord of magic on the material plane (maybe ascend to godhood but i try to avoid this)

To be fair, the Shadow Weave is controlled by Shar, who is not a very nice person.

If he doesn't already have levels in it, that Shadow Adept prestige class is pretty good for shadow weave users.


I'm currently in a campaign where the city of shade is a pretty active component, and I'm actually playing a wizard who was a netherese arcanist, but was put into stasis by his contingencies when netheril fell.

It's good times.

[j_spencer93]

Its not like he just appeared and started this either, he was awakened by the players, caused a massive war to cover his covert acts on Faerun and now his power is rising again he is finding those most devote to Mystra and plans to use his mistresses magic (has a similar affection for shar as Thanos does for death, crazy devote to a flaw) to destroy them all until he regains his full might and aims for Elimenster. After clearing all Mystra powered wizards from the world, he plans to erect an empire dedicated to Shar on Faerun.

[j_spencer93]

lol very similar to my villain, also i know about Shar. And he has shadow adept, wish their more shadow weave feats and classes actually.

[Melcar]

Technically yet it is. You need 13th level spell slots (from being Epic and taking the Improved Spell Capacity feat 4 times) and the Heighten Spell metamagic feat.

If you heighten a spell to 13th level (well two because of the spells requirement) then you meet the requirements for the class.

Im pretty sure you dont need the Heighten Spell... you just need the 13th level slot.

[Khatoblepas]

Dealing with the PC's is as trivial as taking Ignore Material Components and spending a week or so throwing out Ice Assassin's of the PC's to kill them. Can your party beat themselves twice over? How about three times over? Or Four?

Okay, so, I'm curious: How are the PCs supposed to deal with that? Like put yourself in their position here. Do they do the same thing until the entire multiverse is filled with Ice Assassins and Gated Solars?

Like high magic is cool and all but it seems like it would just get very silly, or very boring quickly, with everyone spamming the same stuff until the end of time or until one party gets bored and leaves the setting entirely after having too many of their own Ice Assassin Astral Projected Duplicrulums destroyed.

[Emperor Tippy]

Okay, so, I'm curious: How are the PCs supposed to deal with that? Like put yourself in their position here. Do they do the same thing until the entire multiverse is filled with Ice Assassins and Gated Solars?

Like high magic is cool and all but it seems like it would just get very silly, or very boring quickly, with everyone spamming the same stuff until the end of time or until one party gets bored and leaves the setting entirely after having too many of their own Ice Assassin Astral Projected Duplicrulums destroyed.

The best way is deliberately leave critical weaknesses that are covered on yourself with gear or spells and then Mind Rape yourself to forget about those weaknesses and how exactly your items protect you against them before putting a Craft Contingent Wish on yourself to restore your Mind Raped memories in the event that you ever see a copy of yourself.

Then there is just carrying a few dozen (or hundred or even thousand) "objects" that are really creatures with lots of HD and are all loaded down with Craft Contingent spells to protect you.

Sure, you copied me but did you copy my robes that have every silk thread containing an Ice Assassin Great Wyrm Red Dragon that is positively dripping with contingencies?

Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

[Alleran]

Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

I would like to sig this, with your permission.

[Emperor Tippy]

I would like to sig this, with your permission.

Go right ahead.

[Melcar]

The best way is deliberately leave critical weaknesses that are covered on yourself with gear or spells and then Mind Rape yourself to forget about those weaknesses and how exactly your items protect you against them before putting a Craft Contingent Wish on yourself to restore your Mind Raped memories in the event that you ever see a copy of yourself.

Then there is just carrying a few dozen (or hundred or even thousand) "objects" that are really creatures with lots of HD and are all loaded down with Craft Contingent spells to protect you.

Sure, you copied me but did you copy my robes that have every silk thread containing an Ice Assassin Great Wyrm Red Dragon that is positively dripping with contingencies?

Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

You crazy...

[j_spencer93]

my players will only be lagging a few levels behind when they first meet, and one of my Pcs has outrageous magical items (lucky zelkuir death) and are quickly approaching epic and am wanting to bring my entire campaign to a close, so i think this guy is the BBEG. When they meet their party will be 3 epic casters that actually dont spam or use loop holes.

[Runestar]

From a villain perspective, I have a hard time seeing what value-add taking 5 lvx in netherese archaist brings over simply just going straight wizard.

[j_spencer93]

I honestly simply did it because of his story, also that class really does not add much at all that someone of the level required to take it prob would not already have or could get.

[icefractal]

Okay, so, I'm curious: How are the PCs supposed to deal with that? Like put yourself in their position here. Do they do the same thing until the entire multiverse is filled with Ice Assassins and Gated Solars?

That's one thing that always stumps me when I consider an epic, or even high-level high-op campaign. Once you open the pandora's box of Wish-loops, there's really no guideline for how far is logical for a given level.

Like - the 30th level Wizard can have clothes made of a multitude of minions. But - so can the 17th level Wizard (or lower, really). Or for that matter, and entire city where every cobblestone is a powerful minion. How do you even resolve two nigh-infinite forces fighting each-other?

I don't even think Epic Spellcasting is the dividing factor here, because while the lower-level Wizard can't get it directly, he can certainly create minions who are capable of doing so.

So - yeah, that's the question, actually. Is there anything a 30th-level Wizard can do, that a 17th-level one can't, once we open up Ice Assassin and such? Actually, is there anything said Wizard can do that a Commoner with a Candle of Invocation can't?

[j_spencer93]

I know my player's wont use any loop holes or cheese like that but honestly you have a point, in a game where players would use it, the game is kinda pointless.
Anyways i am hoping the upcoming fight actually tears up the area (keeping good track of this stuff for they actually effect the world).

[Sith_Happens]

I honestly simply did it because of his story, also that class really does not add much at all that someone of the level required to take it prob would not already have or could get.

Yeah, its abilities basically amount to maybe ten points of mitigation and a handful of saved money, at the cost of never being able to develop about a third of the spells you could otherwise.

[j_spencer93]

honestly if it had not been from flavor i wouldnt of even used it, after really paying attention to what it does i have to say this class is crap.