[d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

[Fax Celestis]

Upon taking the first level of a class, the player chooses a number of "skill sets" for that class. This skill set determines the class skills for the class and cannot be changed at a later time.

All classes treat the Profession and Craft skills as a class skills, regardless of skill sets.

A character who receives a skill from more than one skill set (or as a bonus skill from their class) receives a +1 synergy bonus for each skill set beyond the first that provides that skill.

For instance, a character who selects the Adventurer, Athlete, and Explorer skill sets will have the following set of class skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Awareness, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Geography, History, Nature), Perform, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Survival.

He will also get synergy bonuses to the following skills: Athletics (+1), Awareness (+2), Handle Animal (+1), Heal (+1), Ride (+1), Survival (+1)

Skill Sets
Adventurer
Athletics, Awareness, Gather Information, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering, History), Sense Motive, Survival

Artist
Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering, History, Local), Perform, Profession

Athlete
Acrobatics, Athletics, Awareness, Concentration, Handle Animal, Perform, Ride

Bard
Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local, History, Nobility and Royalty), Perform, Spellcraft

Bodyguard
Awareness, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Sense Motive, Stealth

Diplomat
Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local, Nobility and Royalty), Sense Motive, Speak Language

Druid
Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Ride, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival

Explorer
Awareness, Decipher Script, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Geography, Nature), Ride, Search, Speak Language, Survival

Guard
Awareness, Concentration, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Ride, Sense Motive

Lawman
Awareness, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Search, Sense Motive

Mage
Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana, The Planes), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Merchant
Appraise, Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering, Local), Profession, Speak Language, Spellcraft

Psion
Autohypnosis, Concentration, Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, Use Psionic Device

Priest
Concentration, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (Religion, The Planes), Sense Motive, Spellcraft

Sage
Appraise, Cartomancy, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Knowledge (All), Speak Language, Spellcraft

Socialite
Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Perform, Sense Motive, Speak Language

Spy
Awareness, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Disguise, Gather Information, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Legerdemain, Search, Stealth

Thief
Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Disable Device, Disguise, Legerdemain, Search, Stealth, Use Magic Device

Tinker
Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Knowledge (Arcana, Architecture and Engineering), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Trapper
Acrobatics, Awareness, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Knowledge (Nature), Legerdemain, Search, Survival

[WaterTengu]

interesting idea, so you could even have a fighter who is basd on survival and such things by skills alone.

[Fax Celestis]

interesting idea, so you could even have a fighter who is basd on survival and such things by skills alone.

Exactly. It makes for more flexibility within classes while still providing a limiting factor on skill selection.

[WaterTengu]

fun, will their still be certain things that a class can not take/has to take, such as a druid taking druid skill sets.

[UserClone]

I'd go one step further and allow, say, any one (or maybe two) skill(s) from your set to be swapped out with one (or two) from a different set, as an option to further customize.

So, for example, a Cartomancer with the Socialite set, who could still have Cartomancy and Spellcraft - WAIT!


What about giving each class two (or so) automatic Class skills, then you let them select a skill set on top of those. Any Class Skills that overlap get a +1 unnamed bonus. This has the side effect of subtly encouraging you to select a set that matches the archetype of the class, while simultaneously not unduly penalizing you if you want to explore something else. I like it!

[Fax Celestis]

I'd go one step further and allow, say, any one (or maybe two) skill(s) from your set to be swapped out with one (or two) from a different set, as an option to further customize.

So, for example, a Cartomancer with the Socialite set, who could still have Cartomancy and Spellcraft - WAIT!


What about giving each class two (or so) automatic Class skills, then you let them select a skill set on top of those. Any Class Skills that overlap get a +1 unnamed bonus. This has the side effect of subtly encouraging you to select a set that matches the archetype of the class, while simultaneously not unduly penalizing you if you want to explore something else. I like it!

That's kinda how I'm doing it now. See:

Skills: A rogue chooses four skill sets. 8 + Int skill points per level, x4 at first level.

The cartomancer has a statement in theirs saying they always treat cartomancy as a class skill.

But I hadn't considered overlap. Perhaps a +1 synergy (?) bonus for overlapping skills from separate sets?

[UserClone]

Absolutely, if the goal is, as I stated above, to slightly encourage synergistic/archetypal skills, without stepping on the toes of the player who wants the character with unusual skills for a given class.

[Zeful]

I'd go one step further and allow, say, any one (or maybe two) skill(s) from your set to be swapped out with one (or two) from a different set, as an option to further customize.

So, for example, a Cartomancer with the Socialite set, who could still have Cartomancy and Spellcraft - WAIT!


What about giving each class two (or so) automatic Class skills, then you let them select a skill set on top of those. Any Class Skills that overlap get a +1 unnamed bonus. This has the side effect of subtly encouraging you to select a set that matches the archetype of the class, while simultaneously not unduly penalizing you if you want to explore something else. I like it!

Ironically that would end up looking much like the 4e skill system.

Still a good idea.

[UserClone]

Well, that makes sense, and I actually thought that same thing as I was typing that post, strangely enough.

[Fax Celestis]

Synergy bonus and example added. May add more skill sets soon.

[UserClone]

What about Craft? All the base classes have it, IIRC...

Sheesh, if only it was this easy to get WoTC to listen to reasonable suggestions.

(Seriously Fax, great idea. It's another winner)

[Fax Celestis]

What about Craft? All the base classes have it, IIRC...

Sheesh, if only it was this easy to get WoTC to listen to reasonable suggestions.

(Seriously Fax, great idea. It's another winner)

Hmm... Yeah, okay, I'll group Craft in with Profession as a "universal skill". Also added Psion skill set.

[UserClone]

Do you plan to include any obscure and/or outdated skills such as Iaijutsu Focus, Truenaming (fixed, of course), or Martial Lore, or would they fall under the "supplemental" material?

[Fax Celestis]

Do you plan to include any obscure and/or outdated skills such as Iaijutsu Focus, Truenaming (fixed, of course), or Martial Lore, or would they fall under the "supplemental" material?

They'd fall under "Non-OGL" material, and as such I'm not touching them. Also, added Tinker and Bodyguard.

[Shadow_Elf]

I don't play 3.Xe, but since this is supposed to sorta be the middle ground between 4e and 3e, I figured I might be able to lend a hand (plus, I'm bored )

Does this work?

Bard
Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local, History, Nobility and Royalty), Perform, Spellcraft

[Fax Celestis]

Yes it does. *adds*

[UserClone]

How about each character class gets half the number of skill sets that the class currently grants class skills (i.e., 2 sets for a Druid, 1 set for a Wizard, 4 for a Rogue)

[Fax Celestis]

How about each character class gets half the number of skill sets that the class currently grants class skills (i.e., 2 sets for a Druid, 1 set for a Wizard, 4 for a Rogue)

The classes actually state how many they get, though that's pretty much the general rule I'm using.

[UserClone]

very cool. *thumbs up*

[Shadow_Elf]

I thought of another one!

Lawbringer
Awareness, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Search, Sense Motive, Spot

This would be Policemen (i.e. Purple Dragon Knights in FR's Cormyr) or perhaps a character who was a vigilante, or who helped the local authorities maintain the law.

[strawberryman]

I love it, I always disliked the limitation on skill sets, this definitely adds some more selection to the mix.

[Shadow_Elf]

Here comes another!

Street Fighter
Awareness, Acrobatics, Athletics, Concentration, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Gather Information, Survival

[Devils_Advocate]

Ooh, like weapon groups, but for skills. Me likey.

Come to think of it, the whole basic idea of a bunch of related abilities being packaged together seems like a good concept in general. You could probably do something similar with magic.

That's actually how clerics worked in AD&D, with spell spheres, right? Why the hell did they narrow that down to domains, and give every cleric that weird bag of healing, blessings, curses, buffs, and utility spells that often isn't thematically appropriate to the cleric and deity in question? (It's not inherently nonsensical, but it's a bit overpowering and a bit bland.)

You could group together related combat style abilities, too. Like the Ranger's options, but maybe more flexible?

Anyway, something to think about.

[UserClone]

I second the Weapon Groups and spell spheres-esque grouping of spells, as well, FWIW. Good job on the skills so far, IMO.

[Pramxnim]

I love the skill sets system, incomplete though it is (I'm referring to the description of the skills that are meant to replace core skills). I'm dying to create a character based on the Luckthief/Tarot Trickster class made by you and Lord_Gareth respectively, but I'd like to use core skills while still adapting the skill sets system. What is the conversion between your new skills and the old skill system, if I might ask?

[Fax Celestis]

I love the skill sets system, incomplete though it is (I'm referring to the description of the skills that are meant to replace core skills). I'm dying to create a character based on the Luckthief/Tarot Trickster class made by you and Lord_Gareth respectively, but I'd like to use core skills while still adapting the skill sets system. What is the conversion between your new skills and the old skill system, if I might ask?

Check the conversion basis here. I've not done an official write-up yet on what skills do what, but it's pretty simple to figure out.

[Superglucose]

This is remarkable and bookmarked.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Were you going to have some sort of Investing for skills as well? I seem to remember such, but haven't seen anything on it yet.

[Ziegander]

I just had a very similar idea this morning, of course also calling it Skill Sets. I like the ideas you have here, but you are moving in other directions with it than I will when I get to my implementation. So, if you see me come out with my own Skill Sets thread now you know that I'm not trying to copy you.

Anyway, I like what I see here. Skill flexibility is always a plus in my book, and the way that you've come up with to add synergy bonuses is a great one.

[bue52]

One question, when a character levels up, he/she still gains skill points right? So she/he simply improves the skills that are within the skill set. Right?