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2019-03-21, 03:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q63
An unchained synthetist summoner merged with her eidolon has her own weapon attacks count against the max number of eidolon attacks or do they add up?
Namely, a level 1 summoner with two weapons fighting and a serpentine eidolon can attacks with both her weapons and with two eidolon (secondary) natural attacks, to a total of 4, or is it limited to 3?
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2019-03-21, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A63: Strictly RAW speaking, you'd be limited to 3 attacks PERIOD.
...but it's a horribly thought out 'ability' and/or is poorly worded.
In my opinion, it should be worded more like "maximum number of attacks you can use per round". Carry/have as many as you want, but you can only use so many.
An example of the stupid: just about anything that can attack can make an Unarmed strike. You can Two Weapon Fight with Unarmed strikes (reminder that the first TWF Feat only removes to-hit penalities). Therefore a Level 1 Biped Eidolon is illegal, because it has 4 attacks (2 claw, 2 Unarmed) when the limit is 3. But the only penalty for over attack limit is you cannot Evolution more attacks. This means you would have to wait until level _19_ until you could add _1_ more Natural attack (iteratives kick in around the time the attack limit would increase, and it doesn't catch up until level 19).
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2019-03-21, 07:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
And which illusion are you using? Some don't mention concealment at all so you'd be left with GM adjudication.
Actually, even though you can TWF with Unarmed Strike, you still have just the one per character. It's an exception to the TWF rules.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2019-03-21, 07:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
EDIT: (removed previous reply)
"Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional attacks. Attacks made with weapons, including those granted by a high base attack bonus, are counted against this maximum."
No. It goes even dumber than that.
It doesn't care about source of attack (I have -a- sword), it cares about how many attacks you can make with it (Bab 6 means 2 sword attacks).
So it doesn't matter that you only have one unarmed attack. Your can still TWF with it, and that's an extra attack, and that's all it cares about.Last edited by grarrrg; 2019-03-21 at 08:39 AM.
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2019-03-21, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-21, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
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2019-03-21, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Last edited by Selion; 2019-03-21 at 11:29 AM.
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2019-03-21, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q 64 a "Scary Mary" is 11th level character who has the following abilities and feats:
- Ascetic Style (shuriken), Combat Style Master, Weapon Style Mastery and devastating touch.
- - Broken Dreams Style, Shattered Dream Strike and Nightmare Veil. Relevant RAW: "While in the broken dreams style, after making a successful unarmed strike empowered with your devastating touch, you can make a free Intimidate check against the target." "While in the broken dreams style, any target that is shaken treats you as concealed."
- - Chameleon Shift and four other shifting feats. Relevant RAW: "At 5 Shifting feats, you may attempt a Stealth check to hide even when observed."
- - Dazzling Gambit, a bunch of ranged combat feats, and arbitrarily high Intimidate and Stealth skill bonuses. Relevant RAW: "Whenever the privateer succeeds on a gambit, he can make an Intimidate check to demoralize all opponents within 30 feet as a free action, even if it isn’t his turn."
Mary sneaks up to a group of five enemies (none of them immune to fear), positioning herself so that all of them are within 30' of her. She then starts combat by initiating a gambit (swift action) after entering Ascetic Style and Broken Dreams Style (free action), followed by a ranged full attack with her shuriken. Assuming her first attack hits and her gambit succeeds, the five enemies are shaken and Mary gains concealment from them.
Question: After her first attack, Mary would normally no longer have total concealment as her attack causes her to lose the benefits of Stealth. But as she also has HiPS and gains concealment as part of this first attack, what happens?
- Mary can make a Stealth check immediately after her first and each subsequent attack in order to remain in Stealth, basically as if she was successfully taking the sniping action in the Stealth skill rules.
- Mary loses her total concealment after her first attack, and she cannot regain it unless she moves at least 5' (allowing her to make a Stealth check).
- Something else.
IOW, assuming Mary has no means to move after each attack she makes as part of her full attack, is it possible for her to complete her ranged full attack without ever breaking Stealth, never giving her enemies so much as the tiniest glimpse of herself or her position? Why or why not?
Q 64 b If Mary does not have Nightmare Veil which grants her concealment to shaken enemies, what changes, if anything? Why?Last edited by upho; 2019-03-21 at 03:18 PM.
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2019-03-21, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A 64a Okay, so a couple issues I see are as such:
1) Combat Style Master lets you switch your style as a free action, not start them as a free, that's still a swift. You can start in one because of it but your swift is going to be either to start your second style or initiating your gambit, not both.
2) All the gambits require at least a move action, typically a standard, to complete to trigger your ploy to shaken your enemies so you get concealment, so unless you have something else that turns one of them into a free, I don't know how you're getting a full attack here.
3) Sniping is after a single attack, not a full round, and requires its own dedicated move action, which, again, unless you have something that makes that faster, you're not getting a full attack.
So, you snuck up on these guys, so you have a Surprise round. You have a Swift as well as a Standard or Move. Use your Swift to get both styles going, Move in among them. Done.
Round 1, assuming you act before they do, you Swift to initiate your gambit (let's say Deadeye Gambit and you have Greater Called Shot for making a Called Shot as a Standard), you make your called shot and succeed, Demoralize the lot of them, so they're Shaken and you're concealed against them. You use your Move to Snipe and hide, so they have no idea where you are.
So really, to make this work, you need Surprise and to act before they do in combat. No full attacks are happening via this method if you want to keep stealthed so you maintain not only Total Concealment but them having no idea where you are. It's not that they never see you, it's that they catch a glimpse of something before fear takes over and its the last thing they ever see, presumably.
A 64b Without Nightmare Veil, you're not standing among them unseen, unless you have some other method of concealment like Blur or Haunted Gnome Shroud. Chameleon Shift grants HiPS but not Camouflage, so you need concealment or cover to snipe. You're gonna scare the hell out of them but they'll know where you are and where to run from or to.
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2019-03-22, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Oh, crap. I made a far too elaborate example, leading you to analyze things which actually aren't issues in this case. Sorry 'bout that. (And btw, you can certainly perform gambits with ranged full attacks - for example Flanker's or Pinhole Gambit work just fine.)
Let me try and simplify this. Assume:
- there's only a single enemy
- no surprise round, only a single regular combat turn for Mary
- Mary starts her turn successfully hidden and the enemy completely unaware of her existence, and she doesn't need to move in order to attack the enemy
- Mary is already in both her style stances
- Mary makes a ranged full attack (she doesn't use the sniping action or do anything else with her move and standard)
My question is what happens after Mary has made the first successful attack in her full attack, which grants her concealment at the same instant as she loses concealment due to having made an attack. For example, can she make a Stealth check at this precise instant in order to remain unseen? Does she need to? What if she can move at least 5' between each of her attacks, does that change anything? Why?
If she completes her full attack without moving and then takes a 5-foot step along with a successful Stealth check, what has the enemy seen of her and her position, if anything?
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2019-03-23, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
I did look at Flanker's and Pinhole but they both require an ally, which neither example indicates, as it sounds like you're completely alone, which leaves all the other gambits to consider that you can do by yourself. Keeping to a full attack, with Improved Called Shot, you can replace one of your attacks with a called shot, so you can succeed at the Deadeye gambit as part of a full attack and trigger your ploy.
Anyways, the fact you gain concealment from your actions doesn't change the fact that you broke stealth when you attacked. The exact clause from the CRB:Originally Posted by Core Rule Book, Stealth, Breaking StealthOriginally Posted by Core Rule Book, Stealth, Action
If you take either of those courses, since you broke Stealth, your target sees something but since you're reestablishing Stealth, they have absolutely no idea where you are without trying to seek you out. All they can really know is you're close by, they're scared and they saw glimpses of something that's trying to kill them.
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2019-03-23, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Thanks a ton!
Since I'm rather senile, let me just confirm I've understood what you're saying: a) the only way for Mary to never break Stealth and never reveal her position during a round in which she attacks is by taking the sniping action, and b) outside the sniping action the only way she can make a Stealth check to hide after attacking is by moving at least 5'. Correct?
If so, this thankfully confirms my own conclusions. But those darn Stealth rules... The best thing I can say about them is that they're suitably "stealthy".
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2019-03-24, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q65: Small debate at my table today when i tried to Sonic Thrust an enemy out of battle. So just wanted to confirm here.
What i thought: Sonic Thrust's range is listed as 400ft +40ft per level, so (if assuming minimum range) i could thrust a creature that's standing 10ft away from me as far as 390ft away, or a creature that's 390ft away from me as far as 10ft away.
What we realized / decided at the table: Sonic Thrust refers to the Telekinesis "Violent Thrust" which says the target is thrown 10ft per level. In hindsight, that makes a lot more sense.
So just to make sure for future reference: Q: Sonic Thrust only throws the target 10ft per level (max 150ft) away from you, correct?Avy by Thormag
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2019-03-24, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A 65 That's correct.
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2019-03-24, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
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2019-03-31, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q 66. Does the caster of Pyrotechnics needs to roll will saves or make a caster level check to avoid being blinded? (Fireworks option).
Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
http://d20evil.blogspot.com/
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2019-03-31, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A 66 If they're in the 120' burst, yes.
Last edited by Cieyrin; 2019-03-31 at 06:32 PM.
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2019-04-02, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A66 addendum A will save, to be specific.
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2019-04-04, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q67
hi all!
I have a question regarding natural attacks, I'm a tiefling with the maw or claw racial, I pick bite as the selected natural attack, so I understand that if it is my only natural attack the damage is Bite + 1 and 1/2 str, but if I use this natural attack as part of a full round action with manufactured weapons it becomes a secondary attack at -5. The question is, the damage remains as bite + 1 and 1/2 str or does it change to Bite + 1/2 str?
Thanks
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2019-04-04, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A67: Yes - once you combine any natural attack with manufactured weapons, that attack becomes secondary regardless of its original type. This includes the reduced 1/2 Str damage modifier.
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2019-04-04, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q 68: Do you roll for spell resistance for each instance of something on a spell? Like for each magic missile, for each scorching ray, for each target with in a fireball?
Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
http://d20evil.blogspot.com/
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2019-04-04, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A68: You roll per creature to be affected, so if those spells are hitting multiple subjects with SR you would roll for each one. If they're hitting a single foe you would roll once, even if that foe is getting hit by multiple missiles/rays.
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2019-04-05, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q 69
Can a character using Automatic Bonus Progression choose their magical rays / ranged touch attacks as their weapon to enhance? I guess not, but it doesn't hurt to ask
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2019-04-05, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A69: It says "weapon in your possession" which a ray wouldn't be - you're either casting it, or it doesn't exist.
With that said, you could argue for some permanent ability that gives you a ray qualifying, like Kinetic Blast or a Warlock Vigilante's Mystic Bolt.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2019-04-05, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q 70
Are there any rules for making the floor slippery with oil or similar substance?
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2019-04-05, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A70: The general rules are in two places: The Acrobatics skill, and the terrain rules. If the surface is greater than 3ft. wide, the base DC is 0, and then you start adding on the modifiers for slipperiness, your own speed, whether you're moving past an opponent etc. The terrain rules are what let you know that just about anything can make a surface slippery, including water or blood.
The rules for actually coating a surface with a substance, I'm having a bit more trouble finding, but that one might be judgmental anyway - you could say for example that a lantern or vial of oil should coat a 5ft square, but what about a bucket? That may need a ruling.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2019-04-05, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Last edited by unseenmage; 2019-04-05 at 02:22 PM.
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2019-04-08, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q71: Strong Jaw reads
Laying a hand upon an allied creature’s jaw, claws, tentacles, or other natural weapons, you enhance the power of that creature’s natural attacks. Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is. If the creature is already Gargantuan or Colossal-sized, double the amount of damage dealt by each of its natural attacks instead. This spell does not actually change the creature’s size; all of its statistics except the amount of damage dealt by its natural attacks remain unchanged.
RAW, this would give a large creature with a 2d6+15 a 4d6+15 bite attack and a colossal creature with a 4d6+15 bite attack an 8d6+30 bite attack. Is there any errata or clarification for this? Am I reading it correctly?
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2019-04-08, 03:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
A71: You only double the dice.
Doubling is (usually) exactly what happens with 2 size increases anyway.
There is a FAQ that goes over damage increases, Strong Jaw matches up.
https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t3f
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2019-04-09, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die
Q72
Can you use the "Treat Deadly Wounds" usage of the Heal skill on an Undead target?
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