Erfworld 154 - tBfGK - 141

[Chocowatte]

I really like the "purple haze" effect... and the thought of breaking more and more rules until the world is completely different...

I'm VERY excited for the future...

Sincerely,
Chocowatte

[Killer Angel]

"Because if he breaks things enough, there may be peace in Erfworld after all."
mmm...
I don't follow Janis, here. She's referring to the War that Will End All the Wars?
If so, it's a dangerous illusion. At least, on the Earth, it didn't never work; on erfworld, who knows? But I'm very skeptical.

Anyway, a great strip, very well drawn and with a great character development for Sizemore. "Chief butcher"... very bitter.
Also, I'm glad to see Wanda is recovering.

[factotum]

The plot thickens! One begins to wonder if the Magic Kingdom had an ulterior motive in giving Wanda that warlord summoning spell...given that Janis, a Hippiemancer, seems to be a leader of sorts, they could have an entire long-term strategy to bring about a lasting peace in Erfworld.

[Welf]

I admit, I have no idea how breaking the rules can end war on erfworld.

Except we're talking about real basic rules, like obedience and loyalty, or the auto-attack rule.

[Amplify]

Somewhat offtopic, but is there a story where this actually happened, and was considered a good thing? Y'know instead of either the unification failing miserably after much death, or the resulting world government becoming a force of pure evil?

Code Geass season 2

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Though this would imply that something would happen to Parson at the end.

[Lord of Rapture]

Code Geass season 2

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Though this would imply that something would happen to Parson at the end.

Ugh, don't remind me. It totally broke any respect I had left for the show's second season and Sunrise, because it was so contrived.

[OverWilliam]

Heh-- check it out. Purple haze.

[Justyn]

Heh-- check it out. Purple haze.

I have to ask here: does the fact that there are hippies with a haze around them mean what I think it means? A simple yes or no will do.

[greywords]

and apparently the link didn't gain them any XP, since sizemore only leveled twice in battle (the same amount as bogroll did when he took down ansom) so either he's a VERY high level unit, or the deaths caused by the volcano aren't notches on his bedpost.

Or maybe the XP for killing a Chief Warlord in single combat are astronomical. If there were no other chief warlords (I'm guessing no), then the combined XP of all the other units might only just barely add up (including Sizemore's attack on the normal warlords).

As for peace making, "perfect weapon" never seems to act as a deterrent to war in general (see the invention of TNT, the atom bomb, and, as mentioned by another poster, machine guns) but does change the nature of combat. Janis may be referring to this, or, more likely in my mind, a sea change in Erfworld where units are popped not to be soldiers of some variety in the overlords army but rather something like trade between sides, scientific research, entertainment of other units, etc. There would still be armies and wars, just that such wouldn't be the only purpose of existence anymore.

[Moechi_Vill]

Hey there... I just registered tonight, after being a lurker/reader for months, simply because I had to post how completely awesome Erfworld is becoming

As to Sizemore: He wants peace, and dislikes killing.

When Parson was using manuever to avoid direct combat, Sizemore liked that. When Parson began having volcanoes detonated to kill thousands, Sizemore hated that.

Janis just let on that "The Perfect Warlord" is probably the best route to lasting peace for Erfworld... by making the continuation of the traditional war so hideously horrible, that it's no longer seen as a desireable passtime by whomever survives whatever Parson does next.

I'm not sure if Sizemore really believes her, but he should. She has the right idea.

Or by breaking the underlying rules of the universe. Or by world domination.

[Goshen]

I agree with you... Parson will most definately break the culture there. Just like machine-guns on Earth broke the whole culture of dashing cavalry charges, and inbred monarchs declaring war on their cousins over petty squabbles.

As for valueing life and freedom... I don't think Parson does yet, because (a) this is still a game to him, and (b) because he swore to his friends back on Earth that he would give up his entire life and everything he knew... just for the chance to be a real-life Warlord leading battles.

Sizemore is the one who values life and freedom: If given a choice, he'd gladly give up being a caster in Erfworld, in order to work at a Kinko's photocpy place on Earth.

Good points. Ever since Parson entered Erfworld, I've been fascinated by a dichotomy in the way he treats people. He treats those closest to him with affection and sensitivity, although he does use them as he must for the war. He was pretty sad when Misty died.

Anyone else is just a game piece, whose lives he spent gladly. This is clearly shown in the tragic horrible deaths of Webinar and Dora and a couple of unknown enemy troops, all while Parson works out silly word games.

This kind of dichotomy (my friends are human, everyone else is walking meat) is a depressingly common condition. A form of basic tribalism, which makes a lot of very bad behavior possible. Perhaps part of Parson's journey will be to value all life, with Sizemore being his conscience. That makes Sizemore a perfect contrast with Wanda, for whom horror, pain, and (above all) dominance are always personal--and delicious. She is a walking Id.

Wow! I really am enjoying my little theory!

Maggie and Bogroll round out the cast of external representations of Parson's character. Maggie representing cold logic and ruthless efficiency, Bogroll representing innocence -- which just died.

[Moechi_Vill]

"Because if he breaks things enough, there may be peace in Erfworld after all."
mmm...
I don't follow Janis, here. She's referring to the War that Will End All the Wars?
If so, it's a dangerous illusion. At least, on the Earth, it didn't never work; on erfworld, who knows? But I'm very skeptical.

Anyway, a great strip, very well drawn and with a great character development for Sizemore. "Chief butcher"... very bitter.
Also, I'm glad to see Wanda is recovering.

The game is moderately balanced towards continuing forever with countries splitting up when they become bigger. But what would happen if in just one scenario one conquers all? The mechanics might not cover that.
The real world is far better balanced, but even here it is possible to eliminate crimes and wars. Currently this would have to happen through a police state or centuries of social and perhaps even genetic engineering.

[BLANDCorporatio]

The plot thickens! One begins to wonder if the Magic Kingdom had an ulterior motive in giving Wanda that warlord summoning spell...given that Janis, a Hippiemancer, seems to be a leader of sorts, they could have an entire long-term strategy to bring about a lasting peace in Erfworld.

Oh yes, that would be the

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Ozymandias from Watchmen

strategy.

But it does not sound very Hippie-like.

Maggie and Bogroll round out the cast of external representations of Parson's character. Maggie representing cold logic and ruthless efficiency, Bogroll representing innocence -- which just died.

Ya know, sometimes a Bogroll is just a Bogroll ... but that interpretation of yours is sufficiently awesome that I kinda like it!

As for me, I'll rejoice when we see Stanley again, finally. He's been criminally underused for the last thousand strips.

And it would also be nice if a certain somebody (<<-) would make an appearance in non-crispy and non-cindery form.

[Moechi_Vill]

Ugh, don't remind me. It totally broke any respect I had left for the show's second season and Sunrise, because it was so contrived.

Yeah, 'All Hail Lelouch' was a much kewler concept.

Orange-kun and the girl had a nice ending though. :D ^^

[BLANDCorporatio]

Yeah, 'All Hail Lelouch' was a much kewler concept.

Orange-kun and the girl had a nice ending though. :D ^^

I didn't watch that show, but somehow I found out about the STORMS OF LOYALTY! What the h?

[hewhosaysfish]

This kind of dichotomy (my friends are human, everyone else is walking meat) is a depressingly common condition. A form of basic tribalism, which makes a lot of very bad behavior possible.

Are you familiar with the idea of Dunbar's number? (See also Monkeysphere.)

[Moechi_Vill]

Or maybe the XP for killing a Chief Warlord in single combat are astronomical. If there were no other chief warlords (I'm guessing no), then the combined XP of all the other units might only just barely add up (including Sizemore's attack on the normal warlords).

As for peace making, "perfect weapon" never seems to act as a deterrent to war in general (see the invention of TNT, the atom bomb, and, as mentioned by another poster, machine guns) but does change the nature of combat. Janis may be referring to this, or, more likely in my mind, a sea change in Erfworld where units are popped not to be soldiers of some variety in the overlords army but rather something like trade between sides, scientific research, entertainment of other units, etc. There would still be armies and wars, just that such wouldn't be the only purpose of existence anymore.

He has to share all that xp with two other casters.

I didn't watch that show, but somehow I found out about the STORMS OF LOYALTY! What the h?

Yes, it is awesome (style-wise) isn't it! ^^

[HandofShadows]

So Parson might able stop the continual wars on Erfworld? He may be able to reduce the number, but end them? Right now they seem to fight because the rules of the world say so. If Parson is able to break that rules and make it stick, he will have to make a new set of rules and have something to replace fighting (for the most part). Erf does seem to have been created as a "living wargame" by the Titans (or maybe the Titans are mearly part of the world and didn't actually make it) and sooner if not later those powers are going to be confronted in some way. I am starting to think more and more that maybe Charlie created the world and is useing it for kicks and an ego boost (he never looses).

Janice is a smart and cagey character. It's clear that she knew what happened at Gobwin Knob and understands it much better than Sizemore does. I thought it odd that Janice (with Spock in tow no less) just happened to show up at the Portal Park just after Parson arrived. I really think she had been watching what had been going on. Had she been keeping track of Sizemore or Parson though? Did Janis (and/or others that feel like she does) have a hand in the spell that brought Parson to Erf?

And I don't think that this (Grand Abby) Janis is based very much on Janis Joplin as has been suggested. Janis was not really a hippy (and could be downright violent at times, like she clonked Jim Morrison over the head with a bottle of Southern Comfort) also she was much thinner (being a Heroin addict) and dressed VERY colorfully. This Janis has a lot of meat on her bones and dresses more plainly.

[Kreistor]

He has to share all that xp with two other casters.

I personally don't think he gained any exp from the volcano. If you retreat, you don't get ep, and they retreated before the volcano did much.

[Subtext]

Somewhat offtopic, but is there a story where this actually happened, and was considered a good thing? Y'know instead of either the unification failing miserably after much death, or the resulting world government becoming a force of pure evil?

What about the Alliance in the Firefly Series?

[greywords]

I personally don't think he gained any exp from the volcano. If you retreat, you don't get ep, and they retreated before the volcano did much.

That's a good point. One other thought, somewhat related- would Parson have gotten any experience from the battle, besides his direct slaying of the weiner-rammer? He was serving in his function as chief warlord, after all. Do we have any insight as to when and how XP is earned in this comic's system besides via direct kills?

[MattR]

Maybe the fact that the volcano was specifically called out as a trap is a why he didng get a bazillino xp =/ traps just dont give xp like regular combat?

Maybe Parson gets a percentage of experience gained by units under his command in the hex. Kind of like raid experience in mmorgs.

[greywords]

What about the Alliance in the Firefly Series?

I think most folks would agree they turned into a force of oppression and tyranny. I certainly wouldn't want to live under their rule given

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their experiments that created the reavers.

[Helgraf]

God-Emperor of Dune. Granted, the resulting galactic government was a force of pure evil from the get got, but it was a good force of pure evil. Humanity expanded and survived because it didn't want another tyrant like that one.

Ahh yes ... Muad'Dib's golden path. Where he openly acknowledges man will hate him _and that's an intrinsic part of the plan_ to ensure humanity's continuation as, well, humanity.

[Sebastian]

[...]
Wow! I really am enjoying my little theory!

Maggie and Bogroll round out the cast of external representations of Parson's character. Maggie representing cold logic and ruthless efficiency, Bogroll representing innocence -- which just died.

Interesting theory, even if it make more probable that Erfworld is just some kind of dream, with all the characters as projection of parts of Parson personality.

[luxgladius]

I have to say I'm surprised he only leveled twice. Bogroll leveled twice for killing one Warlord, albeit the highest ranking of them all. Sizemore probably killed at least 10, and thousands of infantry. Granted, he had to split the XP 3 ways with the rest of the link, and Parson probably got his share (though without stats, maybe not), but still... Not to mention that even before the big finish, he was still royally kicking ass.

[rosebud]

Parson really isn't one of the bad guys, it's just he's a good strategist. Maybe even the best the game world has ever seen. I mean, he did beat Charlie.

Nah, that was a draw. Charlie's still alive.

Just like machine-guns on Earth broke the whole culture of dashing cavalry charges

Then they changed the cavalry. Change begets countering change.

As for valuing life and freedom... I don't think Parson does yet, because (a) this is still a game to him,

To paraphrase the Bard, "All the world's a game, and all the men and women are merely players." I don't see how (a) fails to imply that it's not "real", something he does realize. But Parson, unlike Sizemore, also cares for self-preservation. And both are compelled towards a certain loyalty to the cause.

Funny how plot lines converge. Both Parson and V are going to spend a fair amount of time atoning for the bad things they have done recently.

I don't entirely follow.

Somewhat offtopic, but is there a story where this actually happened, and was considered a good thing? Y'know instead of either the unification failing miserably after much death, or the resulting world government becoming a force of pure evil?

After much bloodshed, the Britains did seem to like being Romans. And they didn't like it when the Romans left.

Erfworld where units are popped not to be soldiers of some variety in the overlords army but rather something like trade between sides, scientific research, entertainment of other units, etc. There would still be armies and wars, just that such wouldn't be the only purpose of existence anymore.

Neat idea. Banhammer is an interesting one in that he didn't want war but failed in that objective.

And even the Barbarian, Jillian, had some peaceful desires, too.

I am curious where Wanda fits with all this. She does not seem to be a lover of peace, so to speak.

Anyone else is just a game piece, whose lives he spent gladly.

I think you're being unfair. He did appreciate self preservation. Operas are what they are because of the tragedy. And to make a leap from his appreciation of the tragedy of Missy to the greater tragedy is not an impossible stretch. Nor is an unsustainable peace a great virtue.

Perhaps part of Parson's journey will be to value all life, with Sizemore being his conscience. That makes Sizemore a perfect contrast with Wanda, for whom horror, pain, and (above all) dominance are always personal--and delicious. She is a walking Id.

Perhaps this is exactly what you are saying. I still wonder about Wanda, though. Her vulnerability implies more.

Maggie and Bogroll round out the cast of external representations of Parson's character. Maggie representing cold logic and ruthless efficiency, Bogroll representing innocence -- which just died.

Interesting -- I like your ideas. :) Maggie is, in fairness, not a complete cold fish, though. She has a depth that I'm appreciating. I like when she feigned fatigue when the topic of backlash came up. :)

I don't follow Janis, here. She's referring to the War that Will End All the Wars?

Interesting supposition.

If you look at the other parties, what do we have?

Ansom, the embodiment of Pure Nobility and Natural Law, is dead. That's pretty much what happened with World War I, too.

For me, I take it as an evolution, though.

The game is moderately balanced towards continuing forever with countries splitting up when they become bigger. But what would happen if in just one scenario one conquers all? The mechanics might not cover that.

Nah, inevitably when one power threatens all (as was the case before the Coalition), other powers gang up and break it. Charlie and Parson are both strong personalities, so I don't see it a simple thing with a fun single government. Different views and evaluations of risk and reward may happen. But, heck, I'm also along for the ride. I really liked this strip. Almost no action, yet so much happening!

[DevilDan]

Sizemore was angry at Parson since before the battle in the tunnels under GK. It is a hypocritical sense of outrage, however, given how everything in Erf, including every single jewel he helped dig and every golem he created, is devoted to warfare.

I wonder if Janis thinks that Parson can do more than introduce new ideas and cause a change of culture: I wonder if she think he can change the Rules themselves, somehow. It shouldn't surprise us that Hippiemancers can dream big--that's actually the point of her current lesson for Sizemore.

So Spock is a hippiemancer. Guess that explains his non-lethal martial arts.

[chaoschristian]

I have to say I'm surprised he only leveled twice. Bogroll leveled twice for killing one Warlord, albeit the highest ranking of them all. Sizemore probably killed at least 10, and thousands of infantry. Granted, he had to split the XP 3 ways with the rest of the link, and Parson probably got his share (though without stats, maybe not), but still... Not to mention that even before the big finish, he was still royally kicking ass.

Sizemore's already a master dirtamancer, yes? Perhaps the xp thresholds are simply too large at that point to level more than a couple of times.

Bogroll on the other hand was a lowly garrison unit. I'm surprised he only leveled twice.

[chaoschristian]

Or by breaking the underlying rules of the universe. Or by world domination.

Pax Parsonum?