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2019-07-10, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
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- East Coast USA
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Okay, I've been thinking, and I think I understand something now. Specifically, why does a God who challenges a soul's disposition get to enter Hel's domain uninvited? And then I realized: the souls go to her by default. If the judgement were made beforehand by some impartial mediator, there would be no excuse for trespassing.
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2019-07-10, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
If the judgement was made beforehand by an impartial mediator she would have nearly no souls, as no one who is impartial exists that would be acceptable to Hel, Thor, or Loki, and Hel would have next to no chance of finding someone partial to her... only the worst of the worst stagnant bums or monstrous cowards would be hers.
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2019-07-10, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- Reading, England
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Next time, have an adjudication process with an independent adjudicator at set times so people can't barge in repeating arguments over definitions and contract terms. Mind you, I am impressed she knows the deaths of those two souls.
Matthew Greet
My purpose in life is to play games.
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2019-07-10, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Vancouver, BC, Canada
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2019-07-10, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
I barely log into this forum, but I had to do so to say:
This update is great!
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2019-07-10, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Loki set up this entire scenario, if he thought this would hurt him (and sending people who don't die honorably automatically to Hel hurts him, because people who go to him aren't usually honorable) he wouldn't set this up. We don't really know what he wanted from it, but I think Hilgya will go to him, she's his cleric and so he most likely set this up to make dwarves like her go to him (because doing this as a prank on Thor wouldn't explain how it helps him).
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2019-07-10, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Get rekt, Hel.
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2019-07-10, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
She literally states she intends to kill Durkon while the other gods are distracted from watching her. By being in visual contact with her they prevent this. Which allows Durkon and his family to continue.
Hence "Divine Diversion" applies to the gods supposedly being distracted by Dvalin, but also Thor and Loki distracting Hel.
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2019-07-10, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2018
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- NJ (right next to philly)
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-07-10, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Germany
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
I just realized Hel's repeating the same mistake that led to her agreeing to the bet in the first place.
She's too focused on the big price, utterly discarding smaller scale wins.
First she gives up the right to have priests- basically PR-people and recruiters for her cause- for default dominion over the dwarves, and now she gives up the souls that got her- uncontested -for the chance to get all living dwarves if the world goes badaboom.
Even better, when things inevitably blow up in her face she blames everyone else.
And immediately does it again.
Huh. Would Hinjo fall for pulling an Azurite Prince scam?
I mean it would be fighting evil."If it lives it can be killed.
If it is dead it can be eaten."
Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
(Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")
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2019-07-10, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Ummm
I wonder
Will hel be so distracted she just gives up any soul they ask for
And as a result *Grontor and all the dwarven vampires are resurrected or suffer true death as the imprisoned soul is released'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"
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2019-07-10, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Man, Hel is really putting her blinders on. She just established precedent for a whole year's worth of deaths to be classified as "honorable."
"Bobby Exampleshield clearly died with honor!"
"He did not! He was fleeing a kobold raiding party and got shot in the back!"
"The same thing happened to Regin Greenhammer, but you agreed that was honorable. Are you seriously trying to contend that an arrow shot by an orc is somehow materially different from one shot by a kobold?"
Even if she wises up to the scam before Loki says another word, just how many future Dedications did she just cost herself? (Yes, she's assuming she's going to triumph here, but she evidently hasn't heard the mortal proverb regarding eggs and baskets.)
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2019-07-10, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"
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2019-07-10, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Becoming a vampire seems to be a separate process and has nothing to do with the The Bet. Durkon died with honor (as evidenced that he got offered the Valhalla retirement package), but that question was rendered (temporarily) moot by the vampirism, which prevents the soul from passing on to any afterlife.
Last edited by Grey Watcher; 2019-07-10 at 06:23 PM.
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2019-07-10, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-07-10 at 06:21 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-07-10, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-07-10 at 06:22 PM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-07-10, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
I think it's pretty obvious that Thor has been subverting the system and cheating Hel for a looong time. The mummy rot incident might not be persuasive on its own, but we've seen Thor argue that dying from infection after fighting a tree counts as honorable death in combat, even though we know Thor thinks the dwarves are loonies for their beliefs about trees. And if that wasn't enough, we know that dying of alcohol-related illnesses counts as honorable. I mean.
Even though Hel was busy here and she had a good reason to want to get rid of Thor ASAP, I think we just saw a glimpse of how Thor managed to subvert the system to such an extent. She's not strong-willed enough.ungelic is us
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2019-07-10, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- My own private Nogero
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Curated Thread: Gazetteer of the Stick
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2019-07-10, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Also, color me completely wrong on the "I don't think any gods will be looking in on the vote."
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-07-10, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
So, takeaway is, Thor could have contested these dwarves' souls, but chose not to. Either because he felt it was a futile exercise not worth his time, or because he deliberately sacrificed them in order to have a chip in a situation like this. Either way, not a good look.
Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2019-07-10 at 07:21 PM.
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2019-07-10, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
And here we see Loki at his mythological best; saving the other deities of his pantheon from their own agreements by using the letter and/or spirit of those agreements as a razor sharp edge.
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2019-07-10, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Brazil
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
A more generous interpretation would claim that it was futile and that, now, it is not. He didn't foresee the usefulness of that, but now it presents itself in the form of Hel being completely willing to relinquish them all to him, just so she can get to cheat the system by causing a heart attack.
But, of course, the simple fact that the bet happened in the first place makes it very clear how little value the dwarves have to the gods.
On a side note...
"Hi, Pumpkin!"
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2019-07-10, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
No? He's clearly stretching the idea of "honor" to a ridiculous extent, what he is currently doing is twofold, slowing down Hel by distracting her, and saving the souls of these dwarves from certain torture. Normally Hel wouldn't give in because dying of pneumonia while hiding a sheet isn't honorable by any stretch of the term, he's using helping the souls of current dwarves to help the souls of dead, which is a great look on him.
EDIT: Ninja'd by The_WierdoLast edited by Schroeswald; 2019-07-10 at 07:20 PM.
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2019-07-10, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-07-10, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2019-07-10, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2019-07-10, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Brazil
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Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
Hey, I happened to make a reasonable point there. And I did point out that the gods do not value dwarves on account of how they behave WRT the bet.
Besides, you've agreed with me in several aspects, at several times, on several matters.
As for it being acceptable to only contest the souls he thinks he can save, you may have a point there...
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2019-07-10, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2019-07-10, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Brazil
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2019-07-10, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
Re: OOTS #1170 - The Discussion Thread
... seriously?
Thor has been shown to argue on the flimsiest of excuses several times. Sometimes there's just absolutely no way you're going to win, and you just give the other side more ammo to reject you ALL the time.
Hell, that's not even looking at the language here that suggests that he only gets one try at disputing a soul's destination, which suggests holding on to the lost causes until some miraculous circumstances occur that let you press an advantage - like the other side being desperate to get rid of you.
Everything he's done here has been capital G Good, and you're complaining that he's not doing it right.