The LA-assignment thread

[TotallyNotEvil]

+2 With buy-off doesn't sound that bad to me.

With that many attacks, right off the bat, damage will be easy to pile up with any precision damage or even a straight forward STR focus.

They are a CR 3 monster with only 2 HD, it has a lot of goodies. +1 is the minimum, IMO.

[Malimar]

That DR means it'll be just no-selling most monster attacks for the first several levels, but nothing else it gets is all that impressive. Climb speed is nice but not great, 5 weak natural attacks is good for a rogue but not much else.

I agree that the grick is a bit strong at +1 but a bit weak at +2; I'd lean towards +1.

(It occurs to me to wonder whether taking 3 additional levels of Aberration to get Large would be worth it. Almost certainly not; there are much cheaper ways to be Large, such as Half-Ogre or Psychic Warrior. But it's not very often that question is even on the table.)

[ZamielVanWeber]

+2 With buy-off doesn't sound that bad to me

With buyoff you would remove the first level at ECL 11, which hurts. +1 seems good since by the time that the grick goodies fall behind you can buyoff the LA at least.

[Daedroth]

I agrre with +1 LA, we already have discused about buy-off and Inevitability already said that doesn't consider LA-buyoff a standard rule, so LA+2 is totally out of question here.


DR 10/Magic is nice at this level, but it will be negated soon, anyways, that for me gives it his LA are his nice physical ability scores (+4 Str, +4 Dex, not THAT huge, but very nice) and his 4 tentacle attacks for his small amount HD (Making focusing on precision damage quite nice, specially with a mouthpick weapon), these two are his main reasons for LA, the rest being just added goddies. It can make a nice rogue (Too bad his int is so low).

[Troacctid]

What is all this about mouthpick weapons? Why exactly do you need one?

[Tiri]

What is all this about mouthpick weapons? Why exactly do you need one?

Probably because gricks don't have hands, and it's nice to use weapons sometimes.

[Troacctid]

You can just use armor spikes for your iteratives. Don't need hands for those.

[Tiri]

You can just use armor spikes for your iteratives. Don't need hands for those.

Well, I'm not saying you have to use mouthpick weapons, but they're a way to get iteratives, and some people like them for various reasons, like the fact that they have more variety than armor spikes.

[TotallyNotEvil]

You can just use armor spikes for your iteratives. Don't need hands for those.

... That image is just too great. Grick all clad in armour, twitching around in what is later revealed to be precise Kung-fu moves.

[Flickerdart]

... That image is just too great. Grick all clad in armour, twitching around in what is later revealed to be precise Kung-fu moves.

Imagine a ballroom dance, except instead of graceful spinning skirts, there are deadly spikes of death.

[Zancloufer]

Well, I'm not saying you have to use mouthpick weapons, but they're a way to get iteratives, and some people like them for various reasons, like the fact that they have more variety than armor spikes.

The Grick has 4 PRIMARY ATTACKS. In a Full attack routine they can make 4 natural attacks all at full BaB. Iteratives are useless if you have 4 primary attacks already.

[Troacctid]

You can still make iteratives and use all your natural weapons. Your primary attacks simply become secondary.

[Flickerdart]

You can still make iteratives and use all your natural weapons. Your primary attacks simply become secondary.

You can do that with an unarmed strike, too.

[Inevitability]

Imagine a ballroom dance, except instead of graceful spinning skirts, there are deadly spikes of death.

I'm going to ask to sig this before anyone else does.

[Flickerdart]

I'm going to ask to sig this before anyone else does.

Sure, and if you see anyone else sigging it, go ahead and spike 'em.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Go ahead and try.

[Hurnn]

I think +1 is fine.

2 mediocre racial hit dice and a brutal Int penalty. Your 5 natural attacks is good but they are pretty weak. I would take multi attack as my first feat though. Even with a sneak attack build the damage wont be impressive for all that long. The Dr will stop being relevant in a few levels and even at level 3 vs weapon using opponents, and stronger monsters will just blast through it.

I suppose you could make an interesting cleric build but you will turn/rebuke terribly. Druid could be pretty sweet too, but you are going to be a full spell level behind the rest of the party.

An LA +2 would pretty much make the grick unplayable, 2 RHD and a class level in a level 5 party no thanks.

[TotallyNotEvil]

I think +1 is fine.

2 mediocre racial hit dice and a brutal Int penalty. Your 5 natural attacks is good but they are pretty weak. I would take multi attack as my first feat though. Even with a sneak attack build the damage wont be impressive for all that long. The Dr will stop being relevant in a few levels and even at level 3 vs weapon using opponents, and stronger monsters will just blast through it.

I suppose you could make an interesting cleric build but you will turn/rebuke terribly. Druid could be pretty sweet too, but you are going to be a full spell level behind the rest of the party.

An LA +2 would pretty much make the grick unplayable, 2 RHD and a class level in a level 5 party no thanks.

Really? I think that this many attacks, before any TWF shenanigans, paired with some Sneak Attack of your choice, will trivially blenderize most of anything that can't splat you in one hit.

[Inevitability]

Griffon

Griffons are yet another magical beast, but they're surprisingly useful. Built-in Pounce, good physical stats, large size (though admittedly without reach), two free rake attacks on every charge, a fast fly speed... Not bad at all.

However, a LA seems out of the question. Not only will the party casters be summoning celestial griffo's in two levels, their lack of reach and dependency on mouthpick weapons don't particularly help either. That leaves a simple question: +0 or -0?

I think +0 may actually be in order here. Griffons are spared from the obligatory barbarian level so many melee builds are forced to take, and their damage output is more than reasonable. Feedback is welcome and all that jazz.


Next time: grimlocks, followed by guardinals. These should be more interesting to rate.

[WhamBamSam]

Magical Beast type means you can take Rapidstrike (as an aside, can you take Rapidstrike for Rakes as well as claws?), and not being locked into Barbarian alignment makes unarmed strikes slightly more attractive as a non-Mouthpick means of achieving iteratives. A Griffon certainly isn't a -0. Spread out its abilities over 7 levels, and it measures up just fine against most non-initiator mundanes.

[Hurnn]

Really? I think that this many attacks, before any TWF shenanigans, paired with some Sneak Attack of your choice, will trivially blenderize most of anything that can't splat you in one hit.

Your BAB would be 1 in a 5th level party. Even if you juiced your strength to 18 which is not unreasonable with your racial +4 you are now a +5 to hit. Your parties what ever flavor Full BAB melee is in the +9-10 range. You hit for 1d4+4+1d6 on a sneak attack.

I started clicking monsters at random in the SRD and wear-bear was the first one I found at CR 5. AC 17 so with flanking half your tentacle attacks hit. Average damage per hit is 10. Bite does less and hits way less unless you grabbed multi attack so 1d3+2+1d6 even assuming you took multi attack hits 40% of the time so for simplicity in math lets call that 6 and then multiply by .4 and we get 2.4 damage from bite per round so your average round of damage is 22.4 not great but not bad. Here comes the caveat DR 10 silver. You now did exactly 0 damage. Even with out the DR it would only be 1/3 of it's hp and its return attack could just drop you in one shot. You would have 2D8+1d6+con hp with a 16 con and figuring average HP you are looking at 25 hp.

[Hurnn]

Griffons are yet another magical beast, but they're surprisingly useful. Built-in Pounce, good physical stats, large size (though admittedly without reach), two free rake attacks on every charge, a fast fly speed... Not bad at all.

However, a LA seems out of the question. Not only will the party casters be summoning celestial griffon's in two levels, their lack of reach and dependency on mouthpick weapons don't particularly help either. That leaves a simple question: +0 or -0?

I think +0 may actually be in order here. Griffons are spared from the obligatory barbarian level so many melee builds are forced to take, and their damage output is more than reasonable. Feedback is welcome and all that jazz.

I'm not sure +0 is right here. I lean towards +1.

I think it is a given you will be a BSF type. your stats are amazing for it +8 STR +4 DEX +6 CON. You have a fairly fast innate flight ability. You also get built in pounce. 2 Vision modes and scent also.

So with a 32 point buy I'd do 16,14,16,10,12,8 which would end up as 24,18,22,4,14,6 not so great on the mental half but the physical end is great. So naked that's a not unreasonable 19 ac, and 82 HP. I'm not sure why you would bother with a mouthpick weapon on a griffon, just pony up for a permanencied magic fang at 2960 gp leaving 24000 to spend(or greater magic fang if your DM would allow it, but it is expensive.) I think I would just grab double improved natural weapon and multi attack as my starter feats so now I'd be hitting at +15,+12,+12, for 2d8+8, and 1d6+4 twice, and another 2 attacks at +12 at 1d6+4 on a charge that seems ok at level 8.

Also for my next 2 levels I think Fighter is in order that gets 3 feats and puts shock trooper into the mix.

[Inevitability]

Grimlock

Grimlocks have two monstrous humanoid HD, which is decent enough. The natural armor and ability bonuses are neat. Furthermore, immunity to gaze attacks and illusions is quite useful.

Less useful is their racial blindness. The blindsight gained in return has its uses, though note that it can be negated rather easily.

Are grimlocks a bad race? Probably not. Blindsight has its uses, and the chassis is reasonable for a melee character. Do they deserve a LA, though? I think not.

+0 LA for now.

[Daedroth]

Grimlock

Grimlocks have two monstrous humanoid HD, which is decent enough. The natural armor and ability bonuses are neat. Furthermore, immunity to gaze attacks and illusions is quite useful.

Less useful is their racial blindness. The blindsight gained in return has its uses, though note that it can be negated rather easily.

Are grimlocks a bad race? Probably not. Blindsight has its uses, and the chassis is reasonable for a melee character. Do they deserve a LA, though? I think not.

+0 LA for now.

+4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Dex, -2 Wis, -4 Cha
Quite similar to a Water Orc

+4 NA is quite nice on a melee character

Racial blindness/Blindisght is a mixed blessing (Nice in dungeons, terrible outdoors), and Scent is a bit redundant here.

+10 Hide on rocky terrain is quite handy, but pretty situational.

Proficency with battleaxe is nearly useless, as the Grimlock is probably gona get martial proficency anyways (I could see a case for a Int based gish Abjurant Champion but a martial dip is better than these two RHD).

Monstruous Humanoid has better RHD than humanoid, though.

To me, its on the lower end of LA+0, but i'd play it at LA+0, positively not at LA+1

[Hurnn]

LA 0 is fine for grimlocks. Also while you are right you can counter blindsight on the flip side it can be abused too, anything that can repeatedly or magical darkness is great for you, you get to ignore the concealment while whatever you are fighting suffers.

[Thurbane]

I can't help but feel the ability to shape-change into a huge construct dinosaur is overpowered for LA +0. :P

[danielxcutter]

I can't help but feel the ability to shape-change into a huge construct dinosaur is overpowered for LA +0. :P

Eh... What?

[JBarca]

Eh... What?

A quick Google search revealed this to me. They were being moderately clever, is all.

[Celestia]

I can't help but feel the ability to shape-change into a huge construct dinosaur is overpowered for LA +0. :P

Ha! Nice.

[danielxcutter]

Oh, I get it!