Warhammer 40K Tactics

[SolkaTruesilver]

For H2H-armies, how fearsome is an IG command squad with 4-5 Flamethrowers?

[Kane]

Well, played my first game with my tau. Kinda.

Since none of us have a complete army assmebled, but my friend Bomb, who plays Nids, has a lot more than Matthias or me, we set up a fairly unbalanced map; about four feet by two feet, about 1.5 SM tactical squads and my rag-tag group of Tau I've assembled from my megaforce (wanna get magnets before assembling crisis/Hammerhead, and want to learn how to paint it before I assemble the devilfish. (want to leave it's burst cannon turret mobile)

Anyway, it turned out to be rather unbalanced (it seemed). His nids looked a lot less when actually put out on the table and compared to our force rather than grouped on the shelf.

Tactics: Basically, the SMs and I were holding the line, and the tyranids were charging. (Should have had objectives, but created the scenario off the top of my head, and forgot). I used my markerlight to light up Bomb's biovore, and Matthias' missle launcher nailed it. (can ML bonuses pass over to allies, and can other races use the +1 to BS thing from it?)

I tried to keep some distance between the SMs and my FW squads, as I assumed that once we defeated the Tyranids, the alliance would fall apart. The game was interrupted before we could finish, however.

For stealthsuits, their burst cannons are labeled as "Assault 3". Does this mean that they can fire three shots in shooting phase, and three if assaulted? Also, do they sacrifice thier burst-cannon attack to use the markerlight? (Newb! First game! Please forgive!)

[The Gunslinger]

Assault X means that you may fire X shots and still assault if you can and want to. What direction will you be taking your Tau in? I've fought Tau for about 7 years now, and can give you some advice.

[The Gunslinger]

4-5 flamethrowers isn't too bad, as I play Black Templars, but against Orks or Nids? Devastating.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Hehe..

So, what should I do if I am playing against very tough units? Heavy Artillery? Heavy Gun points? Assassins? Lascannons? Mortars?

What's a good IG's attitude when facing superhumans?

[The Gunslinger]

Plasma weapons are a good plan, however, a Vindicare assassin may be a better plan, if possible. Pinning, a variety of rounds, and all of the other assassin magic tricks could prevent some units from coming close. A Callidus would be even better, as you could Polymorphine her directly in front of the foremost enemy unit, forcing your enemy to fight her with everything, or walk around under an ordnnace barrage.

In hand-to-hand, try power weapons, and swamping them with attacks helps. A Leman Russ is a solid deterrent as well. The guard shouldn't despair because they lack a close-combat "punch", if you'll forgive a pun. Effective use of tanks, deepstriking Stormtroopers, and even the odd heavy bolter compensate for more than you'd believe.

But it's best not to let Chaos, Necrons, or Marines come close. After all, hellguns and flamers can only do so much.

[turkishproverb]

But it's best not to let Chaos, Necrons, or Marines come close. After all, hellguns and flamers can only do so much.

In this situation, adding heavy flamers and Ogryns to your army helps alot. SO do DAEMONhunter allies.

[Zorg]

I used my markerlight to light up Bomb's biovore, and Matthias' missle launcher nailed it. (can ML bonuses pass over to allies, and can other races use the +1 to BS thing from it?)

'fraid not, only Tau and Vrspid with an active Strain Leader can use markerlight counters (no Kroot either).

For stealthsuits, their burst cannons are labeled as "Assault 3". Does this mean that they can fire three shots in shooting phase, and three if assaulted? Also, do they sacrifice thier burst-cannon attack to use the markerlight? (Newb! First game! Please forgive!)

As mentioned three shots in the shooting, Stealth suits get two attacks if assaulted, and if the team leader fires his markerlight the other suits can fire their burst cannons, but it must be at the same target as the markerlight (and they couldn't gain a benefit from the markerlight unless it was a network markerlight, which I think only sniper teams can get).

To answer Solka, against Marines I wouldn't count on pinning, as I almost always feild a commander HQ so everyone on the board has a Ld10.

Autocannons are good as they have good range, two shots and can knock out most marine vehicles. You'd be wanting to blast as many rhino's as possible i'd imagine before they get too close.

A Leman Russ or two could provide some good heavy support, and battle cannons are lethal to marines. High volume of fire will bring them down, so groups of heavy bolters and missile launchers (massed frags will probably score some kills) could be a good bet.

I've found that without good vehicular support Marines on the move lack any ranged anti-armour (nothing over 12" on foot). Even then the vehicles can't be going more that 6" so unless a marine wants to trade shots with a guard army there'll probably be a turn or two of relatively unmolested fire.

[Kane]

Thanks for the answers.

I'm liking the idea of mechanized tau because that would let me stick lots of vehicles in it, and I'd be able to get around the map quickly; the best way to hold objectives, it seems to me, is to move your FWs there ASAP so they can shoot at advancing enemies before they've come very far. Devilfishes seem to be the way to do that.

They're expensive, however...

[hamishspence]

on the plus side, the scouts rule works with pathfinders and vehicles again: you can come on in a vehicle.

Not sure if it works for possessed who roll scouts: i'd personally say if you have chosen to put them in reserve, and you roll for them at start, you can immediately say, Because they are scouts, when they come on, they will come on This Way.

[Rayzin]

The tactic of my plaugebearers getting closer to the enemy, then deep striking the bloodletters work. I get 30 S5, WS5 attacks, the enemy space marines or chaos space marines are instantly killed, my bloodletters doing 12-14 wounds.

But because i'm supposed to choose which half of the reserve i want then roll what which side i get how do i win if i get my Bloodletters from Turn 1? Over the next five turns i have my force slowly decreased as he continuously fires at me with his Heavy bolter, and plasma guns. How do i win?

[The Gunslinger]

If you get your more fragile troops first, maximize cover. Try to bait your opponent, inflicting casualties that way. Then, hope the Plague Marines show up soon.

[The Gunslinger]

In this situation, adding heavy flamers and Ogryns to your army helps alot. SO do DAEMONhunter allies.

The Ogryns, yes. but you only get so many, and they're kind of specialized. The heavy flamers? Not such a good idea. They're hell on earth for daemons, maybe, but power armour has a way of screwing up battle plans. Go heavy bolters instead- keep the foe at arms length.

As for the Daemonhunters, I'd say that, while effective against Chaos, they defeat the purpose of a GUARD army. The advice has merit, as I've worked with the Daemonhunters before, and they're rock hard, but more shiny Grey Knights means less tanks, weakening the IG line. One bad deepstrike, and you're going to die. So, likely a bad idea.

Field more bodies, more guns to rain death from a distance, and maybe it is a good plan to keep a group of Ogryns near your line to deal with deepstrikes, or a unit that gets too close.

[Selrahc]

But because i'm supposed to choose which half of the reserve i want then roll what which side i get how do i win if i get my Bloodletters from Turn 1? Over the next five turns i have my force slowly decreased as he continuously fires at me with his Heavy bolter, and plasma guns. How do i win?

You're a bit screwed over really. In a higher points game you can put some tougher guys in your second force, just in case, but for a low points game it really is a death knell.

Use cover, and hope that good luck follows in future turns.

[Rayzin]

I need some more help...
How can i defeat a terminator lord w/ chainfist and lighting claw(even legal? dunno) and 4 terminators w/reaper autogun on one, and combi weapons on the rest. All of them have a powerweapon to i think.

[hamishspence]

Not sure about ordinary marines but for CSM's, not legal. You can swap out power weapon for one other melee weapon, including lightning claw, or powerfist, but you cannot swap twin bolter for anything but combi-weapon, UNLESS, you are going double claws.

3.5 ed CSM codex, however, would have allowed it.

[The Gunslinger]

For normal marines, that's legal, unfortunately. Terminator armour comes witrh nothing, as far as I know, and a lightning claw and chainfist are legal. At least, they are in 4th. I refuse to "upgrade" to 5th, and maybe your opponent did too. As for your problem, just shoot him, and if he deepstrikes, throw an obliterator cult at him. The squad can't be given arbitrary combi-weapons, as they aren't characters.

[Selrahc]

I need some more help...
How can i defeat a terminator lord w/ chainfist and lighting claw(even legal? dunno) and 4 terminators w/reaper autogun on one, and combi weapons on the rest. All of them have a powerweapon to i think.

Um.. easily? In close combat you are much better than terminators, even with just bloodletters. Bloodletters on the charge should slaughter terminators, despite being less than half the cost! Terminator armour is nearly useless against power weapons, and his power weapons are going to be nearly entirely useless against anyone in your army. Terminators are in fact, not too great against demons.

[Wraith]

I agree - there's a large amount of things you could throw at this guy and all of them would feed him is own legs in a humorously short amount of time.

Firstly, pick up the model and pull one of it's arms off - either will do, so take whichever looks like it took the most effort to paint.
As previously mentioned, CHAOS Space Marine Lords cannot have both a Lightning Claw and a Power Fist - if it's not got a PAIR of Lightning Claws, they MUST have one close combat weapon and one ranged weapon. Your opponent, according to the most recent Codex, has been cheating.

Failing that, take your pick from the following list:

# Your own Terminators with Power WEAPONS (Not fists) and/or Lightning Claws, and the Mark of Slaanesh. Fight fire with fire, and YOU get to go first in the Combat!
# Daemon Prince with a power weapon - Instant Death and he only gets his 5+ save. Give your guy Wings if you want to be sure of getting it done quickly.
# Chaos Dreadnought - Pound away with a Heavy Plasma Cannon, and then jump up and down on him with yet-more Instant Death Power Weapons.
# Obliterator Cult - Nothing says "I want you dead!" better than 3 Multi-Meltas to the face.
# 5-Man Havoc Squads - Optimum balance between Lascannon and plasma-guns, and "useless" guys with Bolters...
# Defiler or Vindicator - Instant Death, AP2 AND takes out his bodyguard at the same time.
# Several mobs of Chaos Raptors with the Mark of Slaanesh and as many Power Weapons and Plasma Pistols as you can scrounge together - a Basic 5 man squad gets you 16 attacks on the charge, all of which go before the Terminators and all of which wound on 2's and only allow their 5+ saves.

Or all of the above, just to be sure. A friend of mine has an army built around this list, simply because he hates my Wraithguard so much and it's the only thing he has that can reliably deal with them

[The Gunslinger]

That'd work.

[Selrahc]

Failing that, take your pick from the following list:

Well given that he seems to be playing a Chaos Daemons army rather than a Chaos Space Marines army, I don't think that list is as applicable as you may like

[The Gunslinger]

A Bloodthirster would raise a little hell.

[Wraith]

*blink*

For some reason, I misread "Plaguebearer" as "Plague Marines" and thought it was a mixed army. I apologise.

That doesn't make it any more difficult, however. Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes are probably your best bet, though if you're sure your opponent isn't going to bring his Chainfist with him then a Soulgrinder would be a perfectly good addition to consider.

[Kane]

Well, no tactics, but I hope nobody objects to noob questions... Between the rulebook I have and my codex, a lot of things are confusing me. (Oh, keep in mind I only have the Battle for MacCragge 4th ed rulebook)

1, Can you disperse a squad without it counting as moving (spread out to about 2 inches between each unit?)

2, What's with moving range? I.E., Firewarriors w/pulse rifle have the stats, 'rapid fire' and, 'range 30 inches'. If they move, how does this change?

3 I thought burst cannons, like the ones stealthsuits came with, got 5 shots. Not three. How do I figure out how many shots something gets?

4. Can someone explain how strenght effects damage? If something's strenght is x2 someones toughness, is this auto-kill? No armor save or something?

5. PLEASE explain CC! I don't effing get it!

~Confused n00b.

[The Gunslinger]

I'll answer your questions, according to 4th ed.


1, Can you disperse a squad without it counting as moving (spread out to about 2 inches between each unit?)

That's a good question. If even one model in a unit moves, the unit counts as having moved. It's dumb, but there it is.

2, What's with moving range? I.E., Firewarriors w/pulse rifle have the stats, 'rapid fire' and, 'range 30 inches'. If they move, how does this change?

Rapid fire weapons can fire one shot up to max. range, but if they move, it's one shot up to 12".

3 I thought burst cannons, like the ones stealthsuits came with, got 5 shots. Not three. How do I figure out how many shots something gets?

The weapon's profile will tell you how many shots it gets. For example, Assault 3 means 3 shots, and the model can assault if within range.

4. Can someone explain how strenght effects damage? If something's strenght is x2 someones toughness, is this auto-kill? No armor save or something?

Strength affects damage according to the chart (in the rulebook). If a weapon's strength is at least twice its target's toughness, then it has the potential to instantly kill its target. It does not necessarily ignore armour. For example, a krak missile (Str 8, AP 3) hits a Space Marine Captain (2 wounds) in power armour (3+ save). It wounds, and automatically wounds, as his armour is only 3+. Because this wound was inflicted at str 8, or double his toughness of 4, he is killed.

The same launcher fires at a terminator Captain (2 wounds, 2+ save), and wounds. Due to his 2+ save, he gets a chance to live, as the missile is only AP 3. If he fails, the missile will take out both wounds, killing him.

5. PLEASE explain CC! I don't effing get it!

CC works like this:

1/ Eligible unit charges (i.e. hasn't fired heavy or rapid fire weapons)
2/ CC is worked out in initiative order, highest fights first. Cover provides initiative 10, power fists/claws fight at initiative 1.
3/ Use the "To hit" chart to find out what you need to hit, and compare strength vs. toughness to roll to wound.
4/ Keep track of total wounds inflicted on each side, not just the dead.
5/ The player who inflicts more wounds wins the combat.
6/ Check the rulebook for modifiers (i.e. -1 for being below half strength, etc.)
7/ The "loser" rolls a leadership test, including the modifiers for casualties, being outnumbered, etc.; unless the unit is Fearless, or something similar.
8/ If passed, the winner piles guys in, and now there's a bloody mess. If failed, the loser falls back 2D6", if they're infantry, 3D6" for bikes and cavalry.
9/ If this occurs, the victors (unless terminators) can pursue 2D6" as infantry, or 3D6" as cavalry/bikes. If they catch the losers, the losers (unless they're space marines) are wiped out.

That's a general summary. I hope this all helps.

[Kane]

I'll answer your questions, according to 4th ed.


1, Can you disperse a squad without it counting as moving (spread out to about 2 inches between each unit?)

That's a good question. If even one model in a unit moves, the unit counts as having moved. It's dumb, but there it is.

Okay, thank you.

2, What's with moving range? I.E., Firewarriors w/pulse rifle have the stats, 'rapid fire' and, 'range 30 inches'. If they move, how does this change?

Rapid fire weapons can fire one shot up to max. range, but if they move, it's one shot up to 12".

Okay. Uh, for rapid fire, does it get numbers too? Can certain guns fire more than two shots when rapid firing? (I think I read somewhere that pulserifles get three shots on RF.)

3 I thought burst cannons, like the ones stealthsuits came with, got 5 shots. Not three. How do I figure out how many shots something gets?

The weapon's profile will tell you how many shots it gets. For example, Assault 3 means 3 shots, and the model can assault if within range.

Does Assault X mean that they can fire X many shots in assault, too?

4. Can someone explain how strenght effects damage? If something's strenght is x2 someones toughness, is this auto-kill? No armor save or something?

Strength affects damage according to the chart (in the rulebook). If a weapon's strength is at least twice its target's toughness, then it has the potential to instantly kill its target. It does not necessarily ignore armour. For example, a krak missile (Str 8, AP 3) hits a Space Marine Captain (2 wounds) in power armour (3+ save). It wounds, and automatically wounds, as his armour is only 3+. Because this wound was inflicted at str 8, or double his toughness of 4, he is killed.

The same launcher fires at a terminator Captain (2 wounds, 2+ save), and wounds. Due to his 2+ save, he gets a chance to live, as the missile is only AP 3. If he fails, the missile will take out both wounds, killing him.

Oh. Oh. I think some of this is making sense. The Armor rating is not a stat, but the value of the save (3+, 5+, 2+), and the A column is attacks, I think I remember. (I got really confused when trying to firgure out how melee worked.)

5. PLEASE explain CC! I don't effing get it!

CC works like this:

1/ Eligible unit charges (i.e. hasn't fired heavy or rapid fire weapons)
2/ CC is worked out in initiative order, highest fights first. Cover provides initiative 10, power fists/claws fight at initiative 1.
3/ Use the "To hit" chart to find out what you need to hit, and compare strength vs. toughness to roll to wound.
4/ Keep track of total wounds inflicted on each side, not just the dead.
5/ The player who inflicts more wounds wins the combat.
6/ Check the rulebook for modifiers (i.e. -1 for being below half strength, etc.)
7/ The "loser" rolls a leadership test, including the modifiers for casualties, being outnumbered, etc.; unless the unit is Fearless, or something similar.
8/ If passed, the winner piles guys in, and now there's a bloody mess. If failed, the loser falls back 2D6", if they're infantry, 3D6" for bikes and cavalry.
9/ If this occurs, the victors (unless terminators) can pursue 2D6" as infantry, or 3D6" as cavalry/bikes. If they catch the losers, the losers (unless they're space marines) are wiped out.

That's a general summary. I hope this all helps.

Thank you so much. This is infinitely more comprehensible than the gobbledygook the rule book seemed to be spewing. I think now that if I can just remember all pertinent information next time, I might actually have us playing a relatively legal game. (I seem to have been volunteered as the one to learn the rules and teach it to everyone else.)

[The Gunslinger]

You can't shoot in assault, as this would break the game. Rapid fire is 2 shots up to half range if the unit doesn't move. Having fought Tau for a long time, I can say that I think it's just 2 shots, even for pulse rifles. If you have any more questions, let me know. Good luck!

[SolkaTruesilver]

Hmm.. I am planning to do a Gue'Vera Guard unit, so fluff-wise, I wouldn't accept DaemonHunter's "reinforcement", I would have to go with Tau reinforcement. Do the Tau have good HtH units to stand against Space Marines? (I know the Tau are even more fragile than the IG in HtH, but maybe they got auxiliaries?)

[turkishproverb]

The Ogryns, yes. but you only get so many, and they're kind of specialized. The heavy flamers? Not such a good idea. They're hell on earth for daemons, maybe, but power armour has a way of screwing up battle plans. Go heavy bolters instead- keep the foe at arms length.

As for the Daemonhunters, I'd say that, while effective against Chaos, they defeat the purpose of a GUARD army. The advice has merit, as I've worked with the Daemonhunters before, and they're rock hard, but more shiny Grey Knights means less tanks, weakening the IG line. One bad deepstrike, and you're going to die. So, likely a bad idea.

Field more bodies, more guns to rain death from a distance, and maybe it is a good plan to keep a group of Ogryns near your line to deal with deepstrikes, or a unit that gets too close.

Huh. I used to build my guard armies virtually tankless. And win. Alot.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Huh. I used to build my guard armies virtually tankless. And win. Alot.

Clearly, it's a mean to gain the advantage of surprise. You are more clever than I thought.

Joke aside, I can see the attraction. The ennemy probably loaded up on anti-tank weapons, knowing he would fight an IG army, and thu wasted a lot of points while your Imperial Worms rushed him quicker than an Orc WAAAAGH!!!