So what about Uncle Myrtok?

[orrion]

"Myrtok" isn't an actual name, or even close to one, in any language I've ever heard of, which suggests that "Uncle Myrtok" probably isn't human. I'd assume he's not literally Roy's uncle, any more than Laurin is literally Nale's aunt.

And if he's, let's say, dwarf or gnome or halfling, his expected lifespan will be significantly longer than human. There's every chance he's still alive, somewhere.

Right, because "Xykon" is absolutely an actual name. Oh, and so is Hinjo, and Shojo.

I can also open up pretty much any fantasy story and find unusual human names. Take the Wheel of Time. Rhuarc? Moiraine? Rand? Aviendha? Elmindreda? Cadsuane? Sword of Truth - Zedd? Jagang? Darken? Shota?

A name in this setting is indicative of squat about language or race.

He's not Roy's uncle. He's just a family friend who gets the accolade. Happens all the time in real life.

[Scow2]

Eugene died, the last time, of old age.

If he ever had cancer, he had it for however long it took him to get a Cure Disease spell and no longer; let's not forget that this is a D&D-based world here.

"Cancer" is considered a disease in the modern day because every condition of the human body is a disease. It is extremely unlikely to be considered a 'disease' in the D&D sense of the word, which seems to apply only to contagious or otherwise externally-induced effects.

[Emanick]

This is definitely not the case in OotS, since Extra Strength Keoghtum can be used for cuts, burns, fractures, bruises, sprains, concussions, boils, warts, psoriasis, acne, gout, deafness, blindness, thin or patchy eyelashes, bacterial or viral infections, cancer, organ failure, varicose veins, mild incontinence, and all other diseases, ailments, or trauma (emphasis mine). However you choose to conceptualize the mechanics of D&D to relate to how the real world works is up to you, but it looks to me like a metaphysical part of the OotS universe stipulates that you die of "old age" itself, not from diseases that become more likely as you get older.

Perhaps death from old age is generally from heart attacks and strokes? Those are more or less instantaneous, so they arguably can't be "cured."

[The Giant]

Eugene literally died of old age. When a person reaches a certain age, the gods roll dice to see what his or her maximum lifespan is going to be, and when the person hits 12:01 on that birthday, they keel over dead from no apparent cause.

This is definitely true in the OOTS world, and probably true in many other fantasy worlds (except perhaps the birthday timing). The gods measuring the lifespan of every person has deep roots in mythology—the Fates, the Norns, etc. People don't die of cancer in a fantasy world, they die of having the thread of their existence severed by the personifications of Destiny.

Once you have fireballs and dragons, you have to accept that sometimes, things are exactly what they are described as being, science be damned.

[RMS Oceanic]

Eugene literally died of old age. When a person reaches a certain age, the gods roll dice to see what his or her maximum lifespan is going to be, and when the person hits 12:01 on that birthday, they keel over dead from no apparent cause.

This is definitely true in the OOTS world, and probably true in many other fantasy worlds (except perhaps the birthday timing). The gods measuring the lifespan of every person has deep roots in mythology—the Fates, the Norns, etc. People don't die of cancer in a fantasy world, they die of having the thread of their existence severed by the personifications of Destiny.

Once you have fireballs and dragons, you have to accept that sometimes, things are exactly what they are described as being, science be damned.

If you don't mind my asking, how does this mesh with Eugene's death? He announces to Roy that he's dying, but then takes another four years to actually die. I figure he knew when he'd die by casting a spell to find out what the Gods rolled for him, so that part makes sense. It just seems odd to me that for a man who never revisits projects unless forced to, he would make arrangements for the continuation of this project so far ahead of time.

[Cizak]

Eugene literally died of old age. When a person reaches a certain age, the gods roll dice to see what his or her maximum lifespan is going to be, and when the person hits 12:01 on that birthday, they keel over dead from no apparent cause.

If you don't mind me asking, how did Eugene know he was about to die? Of course he had the knowledge that he would not live forever, but why did he seek out Roy to tell him about his upcoming death when he did? How did he know he would be too late one year (EDIT: maybe more, i can't remember) later?

[Unisus]

If you don't mind me asking, how did Eugene know he was about to die? Of course he had the knowledge that he would not live forever, but why did he seek out Roy to tell him about his upcoming death when he did? How did he know he would be too late one year (EDIT: maybe more, i can't remember) later?

Very easy - he looked into the player's handbook and read something along "X+3d6 years" and decided that with being at age of X he probably would die soon.

[DaggerPen]

Right, because "Xykon" is absolutely an actual name. Oh, and so is Hinjo, and Shojo.

I can also open up pretty much any fantasy story and find unusual human names. Take the Wheel of Time. Rhuarc? Moiraine? Rand? Aviendha? Elmindreda? Cadsuane? Sword of Truth - Zedd? Jagang? Darken? Shota?

A name in this setting is indicative of squat about language or race.

He's not Roy's uncle. He's just a family friend who gets the accolade. Happens all the time in real life.

To nitpick this a bit - "Xykon" was a name Xykon made up to sound badass, and other characters in-comic have mentioned it sounding "made up." Shojo is an actual Japanese word (well, Shoujo, but I believe shojo is a reasonably acceptable romanization), albeit not one typically used as a name to the extent of my knowledge, and Hinjo was made up to sound similar to Shojo, and thus to sound Japanese. You're right that Myrtok is human and the name probably isn't really indicative of D&D species, but as nitpicks go, when someone says that a name isn't similar to a name from any language they've heard of, pointing to two names that are similar to those from a fairly well known language is perhaps not the best example.

Taking a page from Grey_Wolf's book and using grey text for pedantry.

[kgato503]

As far as Myrtok goes, unless we are told otherwise, I think that it is not unreasonable to think that he may still be alive. After all, two friends don't have to die at the same time. One could live to be 65, and the other could live to be 103. Even if Myrtok was older than Eugene, he does not necessarily have to be dead. For all we know, when the gods rolled for him, he might have gotten a max roll, while Eugene got a 2.

As for how/why Eugene knew he was dieing/needed to let someone know about the oath, my bet would be divination.

Spoiler: Theory and SoD

Show

In fact, this might explain why Eugene waited until that moment to go talk to Roy. Since the gods wait until a person hits a certain age before rolling for the length of the rest of their lifespan, Eugene may have only just been able to divine when he would die, because the gods had only just rolled the dice. As part of the divination, he might have been able to see that he would be bared from the afterlife until the oath was fulfilled. Due to his age, he wouldn't have the stamina/endurance to face half a million minions plus Xykon. He also would have problems getting a capable team together and finding Xykon before time ran out. So the only course of action he could see working would be to tell Roy everything so that when Julia was old enough she could use her considerable wizardry might to kill Xykon for him.

[orrion]

To nitpick this a bit - "Xykon" was a name Xykon made up to sound badass, and other characters in-comic have mentioned it sounding "made up." Shojo is an actual Japanese word (well, Shoujo, but I believe shojo is a reasonably acceptable romanization), albeit not one typically used as a name to the extent of my knowledge, and Hinjo was made up to sound similar to Shojo, and thus to sound Japanese. You're right that Myrtok is human and the name probably isn't really indicative of D&D species, but as nitpicks go, when someone says that a name isn't similar to a name from any language they've heard of, pointing to two names that are similar to those from a fairly well known language is perhaps not the best example.

Shoujo is a word or a name? And you yourself say Hinjo was "made up," which proves the point well enough. It's not as if those are the only examples, either - Hieronymus Grubwiggler is another, as is Dorukan.

[Bulldog Psion]

Shoujo is a word or a name? And you yourself say Hinjo was "made up," which proves the point well enough. It's not as if those are the only examples, either - Hieronymus Grubwiggler is another, as is Dorukan.

The Grubwiggler part I can get behind, but I think Hieronymus Bosch might raise an eyebrow over the first part of that appellation being made up.

[brionl]

Page 25 of SoD shows Eugene's whole party. In a voiceover Eugene explains he adventured with Juta the barbarian, Keeno the elf rogue, and Myrtok the cleric - and the panel shows him with an axe-weilding barbarian-looking lady, plus the two guys from the strip martianmister linked. Seems a pretty safe bet the bald guy is Myrtok.

The "bald guy" is Eugene. The guy with the bro-stache is probably Myrtok. He's too big to be a dwarf or halfling and non visible elf-ears. Probably human.

[DaggerPen]

Shoujo is a word or a name? And you yourself say Hinjo was "made up," which proves the point well enough. It's not as if those are the only examples, either - Hieronymus Grubwiggler is another, as is Dorukan.

It's a word; I don't know if it's also a name, because I'm not overly familiar with Japanese names; I just know enough to know that Shojo and Hinjo match up to the syllibaries. But the OP in question said that it didn't sound like it was from any language - being a made-up name that is clearly meant to sound like it's from a particular language isn't the same as one with no clear associated human language, like Myrtok.

Anyway, Dorukan and Hieronymus are great examples. I was just saying that with humans with names like those, Hinjo and Shojo are kind of weird examples.

[brionl]

OMG! Thanh looks just like Myrtok. Same bro-stache, same armor. Myrtok must be Thanh's father!

[denthor]

A little tangent from the recent discussion about Resurrecting Durkon: There's a noticeable dearth of still-living high-level clerics in the comic - that's high-level as in "capable of (probably) casting Resurrection". Most prominently, there's Redcloak, Durkon, the high priests of Odin and Thor, probably a high priest of Loki, possibly some elven high priests, and maybe the lizardfolk hired by the Oracle. There may be some more around in rival adventuring parties, but these seem to reside in the same limbo-like state as pre-Soul Splice Blackwing, only popping into existence when needed for a quick joke. However, I finally acquired the various prequel books a few weeks ago (international shipping is a nightmare), and I noticed something.

Do we actually have any idea if Uncle Myrtok is still around?

To elaborate a little, Myrtok was an adventuring buddy of Eugene Greenhilt. (SoD, page 25, fairly strongly implies the party was at least 9th level; a few levels below what is needed to be able to prepare Resurrection.) In Origin of PCs, there's a conversation between Roy and his father implies that implies Myrtok was still alive at the time, and was capable of raising the dead. (Or rather, Roy implies it, and Eugene doesn't contradict him.) It's wholly possible that he's dead by now; the conversation in question takes place "seven years ago", after all. He doesn't seem to show up in the afterlife, for what it's worth, which isn't much.

Still, I kinda have to wonder, now... do we ever learn anything definite about him? Am I obsessing too much over an extremely minor character? (Probably. But I am kinda curious now.)

I do not have an opinion on your topic I just wanted to say that your signature line with the six characters is so.........................WRONG I could not help myself with this post.

Will save mega fail take an extra 1d10 of wisdom damage. Since I only have 9 to begin with see my signature line. That could be nightmarish

[Flame of Anor]

If you don't mind my asking, how does this mesh with Eugene's death? He announces to Roy that he's dying, but then takes another four years to actually die.

If you don't mind me asking, how did Eugene know he was about to die? Of course he had the knowledge that he would not live forever, but why did he seek out Roy to tell him about his upcoming death when he did?

The Giant may have been oversimplifying in his post, because it's a classic trope in literature for someone who is dying of old age to know it. You know, the frail old greybeard who placidly tells his children or grandchildren that he won't see another winter. Or the wise village crone who tells her fresh-faced apprentice (the heroine, of course) where the secret herb grows, because she knows she isn't long for this world. And so on.

[Scow2]

He knew he was dying because he was almost 72 (As in, a few days), meaning he only has [Until his birthday]-[40] more years to live... and he probably wasn't banking on the 40.

[Khay]

Eugene literally died of old age. When a person reaches a certain age, the gods roll dice to see what his or her maximum lifespan is going to be, and when the person hits 12:01 on that birthday, they keel over dead from no apparent cause.

Ah, cool. Thanks for clearing that up! I imagine birthdays become somewhat scary once you reach Venerable age...

I do not have an opinion on your topic I just wanted to say that your signature line with the six characters is so.........................WRONG I could not help myself with this post.

I aim to please. Should probably tinker with the picture some more, but the world can never have too many Durkons.


So, regarding the original topic... I did some number crunching. I hope the numbers in question aren't too far off, though I might have missed a few things. Anyway. Word of Giant places the action in the year 1184. Origin of PCs states that Eugene Greenhilt was born in 1102. I'll assume that Myrtok is roughly the same age as Eugene - there's really no conclusive evidence one way or another. Myrtok is balding and has a Thanhstache in the one panel that shows him fully, but remember that Roy was going bald as early as college (and that terrible moustache decisions can happen at any age).

Now, to make sure the Order would have adequate time to find Myrtok (and because it's wholly possible that his birthday is January 1), I'm just gonna round up and say that Myrtok would need to live until 1186. That would mean rolling a maximum age of 84 years to guarantee he'll be alive for all of 1185 (where he'd be 83). This thing states that a human's maximum age is 70 + 2d20 years, so Myrtok would've needed to roll a 14 or better. The odds for this are... actually pretty good. 80.5%. If Myrtok is five years older than Eugene (I don't think he's much older than that), he'd need a 19 or better, which still gives him odds of 61.75%. If he's five years younger than Eugene, he would only need a 9 or better, which improves his odds to 93%.

Of course, there are two problems with this: One, aging is discrete in D&D - by a brutally literal interpretation of the rules, there is absolutely no difference between a 36-year-old and a 52-year-old, with all the aging effects taking place instantly at age 53. So, Eugene could be 36, barely Middle Age, and Myrtok could be 52, almost Old. That would mean that - again, being brutally literal - Myrtok could be 16 years older than Eugene with no visible effects, which would require a roll of 30 or better. He still has a shot at being up and running even at maximally uncharitable assumptions, but only a 16.5% one. Ouch. Still, under more reasonable assumptions, Myrtok is probably still alive.

(The second problem is, of course, that even a 93% chance isn't a guaranteed success and that plot overrides probability - but, y'know. )

[Jay R]

Eugene literally died of old age. When a person reaches a certain age, the gods roll dice to see what his or her maximum lifespan is going to be, and when the person hits 12:01 on that birthday, they keel over dead from no apparent cause.

12:01 on his birthday for a pre-Fated death? Belkar's going to have to savor his next birthday cake very, very quickly, then.

[orrion]

12:01 on his birthday for a pre-Fated death? Belkar's going to have to savor his next birthday cake very, very quickly, then.

Heh. That would be hilarious if Belkar were near the threshold for when halflings could die of old age.

[kgato503]

I like the idea of Myrtok being alive. For Roy, I feel like it would be a little better if his entire family, except his sister, wasn't dead. Even if that family is adoptive/not actually related, it would be really depressing if Roy had absolutely no older family members around, or that he could turn to if he needed. It would also be less than great for Julia if the only family member for her to look to was an older brother who is trying to lead his own life. I mean, how the heck would she spend her holidays? All alone at the school? Presumably there is some sort of family structure still remaining that allows for Roy to go off adventuring while leaving his younger sister behind. Yes, I know that assumes a lot, and whoever is fulfilling the role of guardian for Julia may not be Myrtok, and could even be extended family, however we know that both parents, another sibling, and their grandfather are all dead, and that their mother's family is as of yet unmentioned. Also, from a story stand point, the fact Myrtok has been mentioned before a few times by name makes me think that he may have a yet unknown role to play in the current story.

As far as what that role in the story is, I personally think that going to Myrtok may be in Roy's plans, if he is still alive (or was still alive the last time Roy heard from/about him). Since he calls Myrtok "Uncle", Roy obviously knows and most likely trusts him, so he may be an ideal candidate for resurrecting Durkon, if events favor a meeting.

What I mean by that is that Roy's first objective would be to get to the last gate and deal with that before dealing with a side quest. He may plan to go to the last gate and get Hojo's people to resurrect Durkon (most likely with a slight detour to the Dwarven Lands first )). I figure if events on the way to the gate leads to them being horribly off track in the human lands near where Myrtok lives and/or Durkon has bit the dust (so to speak), Roy may take the time to visit his uncle and get the resurrection done.

Or, you know, he could have no barring on the current plot, be a throw away character, and The Giant is sitting back with amusement watching us speculate wildly about someone who we know next to nothing about, and who will have no importance to the plot.

Sorry, really long post.

[JustIgnoreMe]

"Myrtok" isn't an actual name, or even close to one, in any language I've ever heard of,

I've always parsed it as a Fantasy Alternate Spelling* for Murdoch/Murdock/Murtagh/Muireadhach/Muirchertach/Muircheartach. It means "Mariner", apparently. Unusual for a personal name (as opposed to a family name), but not impossible.

*You know how some Fantasy Books/Settings don't have the name Michael, but will have Mykul, Maik, Mickel, M'kale? That's a Fantasy Alternate Spelling. So is Magyck and Vampyre.

[warrl]

I've always parsed it as a Fantasy Alternate Spelling* for Murdoch/Murdock/Murtagh/Muireadhach/Muirchertach/Muircheartach. It means "Mariner", apparently. Unusual for a personal name (as opposed to a family name), but not impossible.

There's no shortage of real-world-human cultures where one refers to pretty much everyone except one's spouse, one's children, and people one grew up with by their surname... unless they have a noble estate (in fact or by courtesy), in which case (depending on culture) the name of the estate is the preferred form of reference.

I have no problem with Horace referring to some of his adventuring partners by their surnames.

[Bulldog Psion]

We've got an entire other world here, with different geography, different cultures, where magic is possible, and some people are wondering if it's possible for a human character to have a name that isn't present on Earth?

Edit: I certainly hope that Julia and Roy aren't the sole survivors of their entire lineage. That would be a bit startling and ghastly.

[IW Judicator]

A little tangent from the recent discussion about Resurrecting Durkon: There's a noticeable dearth of still-living high-level clerics in the comic - that's high-level as in "capable of (probably) casting Resurrection". Most prominently, there's Redcloak, Durkon, the high priests of Odin and Thor, probably a high priest of Loki, possibly some elven high priests, and maybe the lizardfolk hired by the Oracle. There may be some more around in rival adventuring parties, but these seem to reside in the same limbo-like state as pre-Soul Splice Blackwing, only popping into existence when needed for a quick joke. However, I finally acquired the various prequel books a few weeks ago (international shipping is a nightmare), and I noticed something.

Do we actually have any idea if Uncle Myrtok is still around?

To elaborate a little, Myrtok was an adventuring buddy of Eugene Greenhilt. (SoD, page 25, fairly strongly implies the party was at least 9th level; a few levels below what is needed to be able to prepare Resurrection.) In Origin of PCs, there's a conversation between Roy and his father implies that implies Myrtok was still alive at the time, and was capable of raising the dead. (Or rather, Roy implies it, and Eugene doesn't contradict him.) It's wholly possible that he's dead by now; the conversation in question takes place "seven years ago", after all. He doesn't seem to show up in the afterlife, for what it's worth, which isn't much.

Still, I kinda have to wonder, now... do we ever learn anything definite about him? Am I obsessing too much over an extremely minor character? (Probably. But I am kinda curious now.)

Assuming he's still around:

The Class and Level Geeky thread pegs Eugene himself as at least level 11. By that same token, the Giant has stated there aren't many 9th-level illusions in core, there's conceptual room for one that is pretty heavy-hitting that would still be way above anything Eugene ever tried which suggests that Eugene didn't reach level 17 or higher, and by extension gain level 9 spells, giving us a relative range of 11 to 16. This is, overall, a bit less than what the Order averages out to (based on observations again found on the Geekery thread). This is further supported by Eugene admitting that Xykon was also significantly more powerful than himself (IIRC from SoD).

Now, while it's not a hard and fast rule (even within the Order itself), party members tend to be roughly around the same level in one way or another, so it wouldn't be too hard to slate Myrtok himself to have a similar potential Level Range (11 - 16). In fact, if the implications made by Roy and Eugene in SoD are correct and Myrtok is capable of preparing Resurrection, that would place him at a minimum level of 13, a level above what we could confirm for Malack and a level below what we could confirm for Durkon (minus the rampant vampirism addons). This would be well within the expected range, though a little higher than we've seen from the rest of the group (IE Eugene), a phenomenon that could be explained any number of ways (such as the group frequently needing resurrections that eat into their levels while Myrtok, who casts the resurrections, needs to stay alive to be able to do so).

That all being said, Clerics are at least theoretically able to take better care of themselves than Wizards in regards to their health (Polymorph whatevers not withstanding, the Cleric's higher Hit Dice, Fortitude Saves and Spontaneous Healing Magic give them a higher surviveability rate). Taking into account what Khay said about Myrtok's potential for still being alive, Roy/the Order have a fairly good chance of knowing a low to mid teens level Cleric that could POTENTIALLY (though not necessarily) be called on for help in some manner. But as they say, plot over probability, so my guess is that we won't have a definite answer unless he's truly needed (and somewhere in the Dwarvenlands, possibly drinking that fine Dwarven Beer that has eluded Durkon for so long).

[veti]

Anyway, Dorukan and Hieronymus are great examples. I was just saying that with humans with names like those, Hinjo and Shojo are kind of weird examples.

Hieronymous is absolutely a human name. Archaic, but real. I'm not sure that Grubwiggler is human, though, so he's maybe a counter-example to my thesis.

I don't know if this is intentional on the Giant's part or not, but 'Dorukan' is actually a name in some Turkic language. (Google it if you don't believe me.)

I was just commenting on the undeniable fact that humans in OOTS mostly have recognisable human names (Haley, Roy, Tarquin, Julia, Julio, Eugene, Horace, Violet, Sarah, Eric, Larry, Samantha, Pete, Crystal), as opposed to nonhumans, who (again, mostly) don't.

[dps]

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't people in the US actually named "Myrtok". Most people would have said that "Dweezil" isn't actually a real name in any language they had heard of, except that they know that there is actually someone with that name.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

And nobody's ever died from loss of hit points, level drain, dragon breath, or magic spells - in our universe.

Well, yes on the first, because hit points are meant to be a mechanical representation of blood loss, internal bleeding, organ damage, concussion etc - all of which people have, sadly, died from. And training, scar tissue, bone calluses, sensory nerve damage etc would all make you tougher (and effectively give you higher hit points via experience). For the other three, well, that all depends on how real some legends were (or the type of dragon for a similar effect via other causes - fire, toxic gas etc).

Meanwhile, D&D characters performing first aid are supposed to be staunching bleeding, setting broken bones and the like. Sounds kind of familiar.

But at the end of the day, the Giant's said the OOTS-verse has old age as a real cause of death with people simply running out of life, and if people want their universes to run that way, then that's their call. And if they run a game I'm playing in, then I'll happily accept it.

Doesn't mean any universe I create won't be a little harder on such things...

And as for the other half of this thread, yes, friends of parents, who visit regularly, tend to get uncle or aunt applied as an honorific.

[Bulldog Psion]

Hieronymous is absolutely a human name. Archaic, but real. I'm not sure that Grubwiggler is human, though, so he's maybe a counter-example to my thesis.

Yes, I tried to point out that Hieronymous or Hieronymus is a real world name with my Hieronymus Bosch reference upthread, but I think it was too obscure to be noticed. It means, I believe, "sacred name" or "holy name."

[Estelindis]

Eugene literally died of old age. When a person reaches a certain age, the gods roll dice to see what his or her maximum lifespan is going to be, and when the person hits 12:01 on that birthday, they keel over dead from no apparent cause.

So, in the world of OotS, everyone who dies of old age dies on their birthday...? I bet that makes the birthdays of old people rather ambivalent, feelings-wise. "Oh, are you looking forward to your birthday?" "Hmm, not sure. Could be my day to die." On the other hand, you'd know that you *couldn't* die of old age any other day of the year. As trade-offs go, that might not be half bad.