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2016-09-13, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
This might just be the highest powered build we've seen on Iron Chef
Originally Posted by Black SparrowQuotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-09-13, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
I certainly did not expect to see undead feature in this contest.
Originally Posted by Eater of FormsQuotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-09-13, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
And that's all of them! Get judging!
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-09-13, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Secret Lair on Sol c
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
The lack of Warshaper surprises me.
The build that I never felt inspired enough to flesh out was Changeling Totemist 2 / Ranger 3 / Warshaper 3 / Shapeshifter 1 / Natures Warrior 1 / MoMH 10 ... but it simply felt to similar in style (if not detail) to my Black Blood Hunter buildLast edited by Sian; 2016-09-13 at 10:24 AM.
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2016-09-13, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
I had briefly toyed with a halfling ranger/ stoneblessed/ barbarian/ hulking hurler/ momf, but I realized it was really just a hh build that used momf to get bigger, rather than a build that allowed momf to shine.
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2016-09-13, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Okay, let's do this.
I haven't yet looked at the builds, but here are my judging guidelines!
Spoiler: GuidelinesAll scores start with 1 and are modified from there.
Originality.
-How unexpected are the used classes? Up to 1 point may be added here.
-Does the build introduce any new tricks? Is it a bland 'turn into a beast and maul stuff' dish, or is it bringing completely novel strategies to the table? Up to 1 point may be added here.
-How unexpected are the nonsuperficial parts (feats, skills, spells) of the build? Up to 1 point may be added here.
-How unexpected is the used race? Up to 0.5 points may be added here.
-Is the fluff unprecedented and novel, or predictable and cliched? Up to 0.5 points may be added here.
Power.
-How much raw power does the build have? In an encounter tailored towards its specialities, just how strong is it? Up to 1.5 points may be added here.
-How versatile is the build? In an encounter not specifically playing to its strong points, how well will it perform? Up to 1.5 points may be added here.
-How flexible is the build's power level? Is it locked into being really strong or really weak (both raw power and versatility-wise), or does it have some ability to move between those states? Up to 1 point may be added here.
Elegance.
-Lack of flaws increases the score by 1. Every flaw reduces the score by 0.5.
-Lack of dips increases the score by 1. Each dip (with 'dip' defined as taking 1 or 2 levels in a class with 5 or more levels) reduces it by 0.25.
-How many questionable rulings are used? Up to 1 point may be added here.
-How much sense does the build make fluff-wise? How much is excessive refluffing used? Up to 0.5 points may be awarded here.
-How nicely is the build put together? Are class progressions suddenly broken off and resumed later on? Does the level order make sense in-universe? Up to 0.5 points may be awarded here.
Use of Secret Ingredient.
-How much interaction is there between the secret ingredient and the rest of the build? Does it fulfill any prerequisites, or does it enhance other class features? Up to 2 point may be added here.
-How much levels have been taken in the ingredient? 10 levels are good for 1 point, each level less than that reduces the score by 0.25 (minimum 0 points).
-How much have the entry requirements been used in the main build? Are they just tacked on, or has something interesting been done with them. Even something as simple as the same feat qualifying you for two things may already net you points here. Max point bonus is 1.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2016-09-13, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
And, just for fun, let's share my own build stub.
I was thinking about a dragonwrought earth kobold Sorcerer 5/Wildshape Ranger 5/MoMF 10. Fluff-wise, he'd be living seed bank. If civilization ever got destroyed by extraplanar threats he'd remain in a hidden bunker, and with him the genes of every living creature. He'd then be able to use magic to turn into all those creatures whose genetic code has been imprinted into him.
The kobold could then remove a few flesh samples from forms he'd want returned (which as per the alternate form rules, doesn't change back), transform into a Deepspawn and eat the flesh, then create spawn to repopulate the world. If necessary, a quick transformation into a troll would let him regrow the removed flesh.
The kobold race and sorcerer levels were partially there for self-buffs (up to 3rd-level with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, and 4th with loredrake added on), but mainly because of Hidden Strength: a nifty Dragons of Eberron feat that arguably grants huge untyped strength and constitution bonuses when in wildshape.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2016-09-13, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Other than wild shape ranger being used by two entries doesn't look like there's any overlap between dishes for ingredients.
Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter
Iron Chef Home Cooking in the Playground II - Second Place : Takenaka Kenshin
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2016-09-13, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- GMT +n
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Great entries by all!
I was planning an entry similar to Whod'at Agin, but I just couldn't pull it together. Something along the lines of Divine Minion Human MoMF 10/Chameleon 9 - capable of being anyone, anytime.I do homebrew now, apparently!
Oath of Asceticsim (5e Paladin Archetype)
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2016-09-13, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
I had to sacrifice power to keep the flavor going.
Last edited by Grim Reader; 2016-09-14 at 02:31 AM.
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2016-09-13, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
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- New York
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
You might want to edit/delete that post, Grim Reader; you don't want to give away which build was yours, or which builds aren't yours.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
The main character (solo campaign) heard about the upcoming execution of his brother for murder, and was on his way to the Count's Keep to stop or delay it.
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2016-09-13, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
I'll do my best to commit to judging - my scoring might be a little "basic" compared to some judges, but I'll use the same system I did back when I judged Shadow Sentinel.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2016-09-13, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- material & internet plane
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Nice entries all around, one of which reminds me of my own entry from a different comp. I was supposed to make an entry, but the laptop went kaput (and a rules clarification seems to have been unanswered from the RAW thread).
Also, congrats to evil overlord Thurbane!
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2016-09-13, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
holy crap, those last two. I don't even...... What??!
I am not seaweed. That's a B.
Praise I've received A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign
Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle
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2016-09-14, 12:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2016-09-14, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
I know, I know, still.
Black sparrow is full-tilt in spite of an ingredient that doesn't advance spellcasting and the Eater of Forms is just truly horrific in a way you rarely see. My money's on those two for first and second unless Sparrow gets dinged hard for well known TO with the form/astral seed abuse.I am not seaweed. That's a B.
Praise I've received A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign
Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle
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2016-09-14, 04:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
OK, so unless I've missed anything we've got:
- Weohstan LN Changeling Spirit Shaman 6/Abolisher 4/MoMF 10
- Whod'at Agin NE Human Urban Wildshape Ranger 5/MoMF 2/Zhentarim Spy 1/MoMF +8/ZS +4
- Silus White LN Changeling Ranger* 5 /MoMF 10 /Chameleon 5
- Lyonesse CG Frostblood Half-Orc Barbarian 1/ Scout 3/ Ranger 5/ Daggerspell Shaper 2/ MoMF 9
- Black Sparrow NE Hengeyokai Sparrow Ardent 7/Shapeshifter 1/MoMF 8/Ardent +2/
Warlock 1/MoMF +2
- Eater of Forms Elan Fighter 4/Blighter 3/Soul Eater 1/MoMF 7/Soul Eater +5
It's certainly a mixed bag. Assuming I can complete judging, some of those builds are going to test my systems knowledge quite a bit. Psionics and incarnum, especially, really aren't my thing - but I'll do my best.Last edited by Thurbane; 2016-09-14 at 04:43 AM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2016-09-14, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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2016-09-14, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Interesting set of builds! I'm glad that I didn't enter, because everything I was coming up with was really half-assed compared to what we've got on display here.
My thought process basically revolved around leveraging the fact that MoMF gives you way more uses of WS per day than most other sources of WS (by which I mostly mean Druid and WS Ranger) do. I was thinking that no one ever takes [Wild] feats because it's usually a losing trade to give up a use of WS for whatever minor benefit the feat offers, but when you've got way more WS uses than you know what to do with, they might be interesting, right? That led me to stumble upon Savage Grapple (which has the [Wild] tag but which doesn't actually require you to expend a use of WS, merely to be in a different form as a result of WS), which basically gives you free Sneak Attacks when you grapple something while Wild Shaped. Since Wild Shape and grappling go together very nicely anyway, I thought that might be a fun avenue to pursue, but I couldn't find a non-stupid way of getting Wild Shape and non-negligible Sneak Attack at the same time (Hunter's Eye was absolutely a non-starter) without using Divine Minion, and I reeeeeeally didn't want to use Divine Minion. (I'm pleasantly surprised that no one else did, either.) I did think a little bit about trying to mix Divine Minion, some kind of source of SA, Black Blood Cultist (which is different from the Black Blood Hunter class we just saw), and MoMF, but there was absolutely no way in hell to make everything come online within 20 levels, so I just gave up on that.
Interesting that we didn't see too many [Wild] feats at all, though. I only noticed one on a very quick skim, but that was just a skim, so I may have missed another one or two. I guess they're still not very strong feats even when you've got the WS uses to fuel them.
Also, no Druids. Just straight up. I'm not surprised that WS Ranger was by far the most common source of WS, but I'm a little surprised that we literally didn't get a single normal Druid. I mean, yeah, using Druid in Iron Chef always invites an immediate "why are you in the SI instead of just being more Druid?" question, so I don't blame folks for shying away from it, but it's still a little surprising to me that we didn't get anyone at all trying to justify using a Druid.
I am making no promises yet, but I'm contemplating judging. I think I'm basically going to do a preliminary judging-style read (as opposed to a spectating-style read) of the builds and try to gauge how tricky it would be to do a full judgment. I repeat, no promises. But maybe something will grab me and refuse to let me go without writing more about it, and we'll just have to see what happens then.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2016-09-14, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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- Cleveland, OH
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Hmm. Marrulurk has Sneak Attack 2d6 as an (Ex), but that's not really a form you want to be grappling in. Swordsage or Martial Study/Stance gets you +2d6 with Assassin's Stance... just getting Craven in there for +1 damage per character level might have been decent enough. How about:
Wildshape Ranger 5/SA Fighter 1/Rogue 3/Nightsong Enforcer 1/MoMF 10.
That's 4d6 to start with, add Assassin's Stance and Craven for 6d6 + X per char level. That should be pretty decent damage-wise.
As far as getting Wild Shape, Shapeshifter and Abolisher can be dipped for 1 level, but that limits your duration to 1 hour. Still, 9 levels to play with... maybe:
SA Fighter 1/Rogue 3/Nightsong Enforcer 1/Swordsage 1/HotWM 3/MoMF 10
Not much room for Black Blood Cultist, though.
I considered a Simple Druid dip to pick up Track, but wound up going in a different direction. The problem with Druid is Wildshape Ranger is better at shoring up the weaknesses of MoMF... notably, better BAB, better skill points, better HP, and you don't care so much about losing caster levels. The only advantage Druid 5 has over Wildshape Ranger 5 is 2nd and 3rd level spells, but the ranger can still use wands if need be.Last edited by Darrin; 2016-09-14 at 03:06 PM.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2016-09-14, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Michigan
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
My major ideas basically began and ended with "get Metamorphic Transfer," which interestingly, no one else bothered to do (there's one Dragon Wild Shape which is sorta similar). Using a host feat to meet the ML would open up whatever race I wanted instead of being restricted to Kalashtar.
I was going to go Frostblood Half-Orc Druidic Avenger/MoMF /Warshaper using Int damage poison from wherever (or maybe the Sirene's Int damage ability from MMT) to bring dragons down to Int 6 so they could be handled with the Dragon Tamer feat. Then I realized that the Half-Orc Druid sub-level makes Wild Empathy Str based rather than Handle Animal like I'd thought. I considered doing Int damage/Dragon Tamer shenanigans with a high Cha Silverbrow Human instead (which would have also worked with the save DCs for the 'all the (Su) abilities, ever' schtick from Metamorphic Transfer), but it just didn't feel as cool and I got caught up in real life stuff.Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2016-09-14 at 04:03 PM.
Iron Chef Medals
SpoilerSir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L
Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII
Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII
Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII
Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII
Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX
The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI
Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV
Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV
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2016-09-14, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
I was going to enter with Human Archivist 4/Human Paragon 2/Master of Many Forms 10/Archivist +4, using the Initiate of Horus-Re feat to get my hands on Wild-Shape, but ended up not having the time to finish.
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2016-09-14, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter
Iron Chef Home Cooking in the Playground II - Second Place : Takenaka Kenshin
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2016-09-14, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
If I had've been inclined to do an entry, I was leaning towards Druid* 5/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5, and just loading up on feats that boost or add options to Wild Shape. Not very original.
*Was going to use Fangshields Druid levels to try and make the build semi-interesting, but couldn't find a base creature with listed LA that I was happy with or that met reqs.
Question: would the 5th level Fangshields ability Wild Shape Hands allow you to add hands to a Wild Shape form that lacked them, or only to expend Wild Shape to give your native form hands?Last edited by Thurbane; 2016-09-14 at 10:42 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2016-09-14, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Australia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
Longtime lurker, Infrequent poster.
Avalanche in Hell of the Improbability Drive Fan Club
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2016-09-14, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2016-09-14, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Australia
- Gender
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2016-09-14, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
You think that's freaky? Imagine how it looks after a few sunder attempts.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
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2016-09-15, 12:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Australia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXX
... Screw it! *Engages turning into the spin with puns mode*
That was a pretty good picture to have on hand, did it take time to thumb through your collection to find it?
Some people find my puns unsettling, but I consider this simple Squid pro quo. That said, others find that my puns tentacle their funny bones.Longtime lurker, Infrequent poster.
Avalanche in Hell of the Improbability Drive Fan Club
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2016-09-15, 01:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- material & internet plane
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