Death Note 2 Werewolf Game Thread Ongoing

[TRM]

Dude, this game has so many seers that there's no way Shadow (if a wolf) can kill them all before being scried. Can we please not lynch him yet? For real? You're lynching Shadow on Day 1? He's useful if a villager; that is a proven fact. He has almost no chance of being a successful wolf (especially with three scriers (Mellow, Neer, and L).

I'm changing my vote to Trixie in hopes of keeping Shadow alive. I realize that if Shadow is a wolf there may be problems (like, mobs screaming "TRM IS A WOLF!!!), but we could at least wait until Day 2 so that the seers have a chance to scry him.

I would like to apologize to Trixie, I don't really want to see you lynched—but I want to see Shadow lynched less.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Dude, this game has so many seers that there's no way Shadow (if a wolf) can kill them all before being scried. Can we please not lynch him yet? For real? You're lynching Shadow on Day 1? He's useful if a villager; that is a proven fact. He has almost no chance of being a successful wolf (especially with three scriers (Mellow, Neer, and L).

I'm changing my vote to Trixie in hopes of keeping Shadow alive. I realize that if Shadow is a wolf there may be problems (like, mobs screaming "TRM IS A WOLF!!!), but we could at least wait until Day 2 so that the seers have a chance to scry him.

I would like to apologize to Trixie, I don't really want to see you lynched—but I want to see Shadow lynched less.

You got my thoughts TRM, except you put them in a tactics/strategy way thingy. Thenk you.

[Recaiden]

Sorry, I must still have been sleeping or something. I meant to point at Trixie Pointing at Shadow is almost a reflex. The logic being that he seems to always be on whatever side I'm not. If I'm Near, he'll be Mello and the other way around. If I'm a wolf, he's the baner, etc.

[Dragoon]

Pardon the interruption, just a reminder to make sure that any pm's sent with actions or questions should be sent to both Istari and I.

You may now go back to your scheduled paranoia.

[Griever]

Pardon the interruption, just a reminder to make sure that any pm's sent with actions or questions should be sent to both Istari and I.

I think you forgot to include my role in the list:

You are Tony Danza (The Boss)

Each night you can show one player you are the boss, effectively enslaving them to the Cult of Tony Danza. You win by outnumbering the People's Republic of John Travolta.

[Istari]

Shhhh!

That's supposed to be a secret role Oh well

[Aemoh]

I feel amused whenever I'm counted as a veteran. I mean, I'm one of the newer players, actually. My first game was Starcraft.

I'm gonna have to second that feeling. I mean, a quick count of my roles, and it's over 40 games of WW and yet I still think of myself as new *shrugs*

Anyways, *quick point at Trixie*

Sorry, my reasoning is basically the exact same as The_Rogue_Monk on this point.

[Recaiden]

I've got it. Tixie's the mastermind, relying on our assumptions about the strategies of beginners as a shield to get the perfect team. They've been planning this whole thing, including losing their alpha, probably on day 2, and wither they win or near and one villager will kill the last wolf. They'll use the cover of having scried a wolf to find the other seers and then it's almost over for us.[/paranoid rant]

[TFT]

I honestly don't know who to vote for today, so I'm going to try and stay out of it...

Dallas-Dakota for the random.

[Shadow]

OK, I said earlier that I wasn't going to even point today.
But right now Trixie and I are tied with 5.
I reached 5 first.
I'am at work right now and I have a wedding tomorrow.

So I'm going to *point at Trixie to save my own hide.

See y'all Sunday, if I'm still alive.
(nothing personal Trix)

[Aether]

Trixie.


For the above posters' reasons. Sorry, newbie.





And, Murska is under suspicion because he gets Wolf roles so often. Some games a head wolf, an Alpha, is selected and he picks his own team; this is such a game.

In others, the bad-guy roles are sent out randomly, so you can't really predict who will be a wolf. Murska gets to be a wolf a lot because of this random chance, heh.

Thanks much for including the rules in the OP!

[Reinholdt]

Seriously? You're lynching the new guy?

I just wish I got here earlier. Lousy distractions.

I wouldn't trust Shadow in the least when he says he's a bad alpha pick. He uses that as a cover.

But I wouldn't go lynching him day 1 either. That's just silly.

Could everyone please vote for me now? Reinholdt is a much better choice than either one we have up.

[hap_hazard]

There was a bunch of points at banjo1985 earlier. Before they got cancelled.

C'mon, let the new guy play.

[Boo]

I think you forgot to include my role in the list:

And I was so close to asking for my name to be Steve Buscemi...

[Dallas-Dakota]

There was a bunch of points at banjo1985 earlier. Before they got cancelled.

C'mon, let the new guy play.

C'mon let the guy-who-just-came-back play.

[Trixie]

Trixie is unknown, thus a unknown threat. Not to mention that he joined in 2007 and I don't remember/have seen him before......

Yod don't remember seeing me before, as I took a lenghty vacation from GitP and coma back about two weeks ago - you can check my post history, for Christs sake

So, on what exact reason you are pointing on me? I'm pretty much new, I really DON'T know anyone on this forums - chances that anyone would take would take a new guy that decided to join the game on a whim are so nonexistent that they are practically below zero

On the other hand, we have a veteran player, who would be a great addition to Team Evil - and, now that he had a bandwagon behind him, a new counter-bandwagon trying to save him formed conspicuously fast. And nobody sees this is a bit too convenient? On the one hand, a new guy who doesn't know anyone nor have any experience, on the other, a veteran player with counter-bandwagons forming on a whim - and you're telling me I'M more likely to be wolf?

You know, I joined this game knowing that there is a big possibility that buddy-gangs like those are likely to kick the new guys instead of one of their own; after all, why let the new players have any fun, when you can let wolf in our midst have it?

Very well, if what you're really want is to play in the same-ol' buddy groups, not letting anyone new nearby, I can't stop you, but consider this - without my role, the villagers are considerably less likely to win. If you hang me, do me a favor and hang all those who voted for me - you have most of your wolves right there. Of course, if your goal is to win, not to merely play in the same, ol' group.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Yod don't remember seeing me before, as I took a lenghty vacation from GitP and coma back about two weeks ago - you can check my post history, for Christs sake

So, on what exact reason you are pointing on me? I'm pretty much new, I really DON'T know anyone on this forums - chances that anyone would take would take a new guy that decided to join the game on a whim are so nonexistent that they are practically below zero

On the other hand, we have a veteran player, who would be a great addition to Team Evil - and, now that he had a bandwagon behind him, a new counter-bandwagon trying to save him formed conspicuously fast. And nobody sees this is a bit too convenient? On the one hand, a new guy who doesn't know anyone nor have any experience, on the other, a veteran player with counter-bandwagons forming on a whim - and you're telling me I'M more likely to be wolf?

You know, I joined this game knowing that there is a big possibility that buddy-gangs like those are likely to kick the new guys instead of one of their own; after all, why let the new players have any fun, when you can let wolf in our midst have it?

Very well, if what you're really want is to play in the same-ol' buddy groups, not letting anyone new nearby, I can't stop you, but consider this - without my role, the villagers are considerably less likely to win. If you hang me, do me a favor and hang all those who voted for me - you have most of your wolves right there. Of course, if your goal is to win, not to merely play in the same, ol' group.

Well sorry then....

Also, Shadow is not just a veteran player.
He's Shadow, pretty much a really bad pick for a alpha.
And also, if you just buddy up in WW's, you're not paranoid enough.

[Emperor Demonking]

Yod don't remember seeing me before, as I took a lenghty vacation from GitP and coma back about two weeks ago - you can check my post history, for Christs sake

So, on what exact reason you are pointing on me? I'm pretty much new, I really DON'T know anyone on this forums - chances that anyone would take would take a new guy that decided to join the game on a whim are so nonexistent that they are practically below zero

On the other hand, we have a veteran player, who would be a great addition to Team Evil - and, now that he had a bandwagon behind him, a new counter-bandwagon trying to save him formed conspicuously fast. And nobody sees this is a bit too convenient? On the one hand, a new guy who doesn't know anyone nor have any experience, on the other, a veteran player with counter-bandwagons forming on a whim - and you're telling me I'M more likely to be wolf?

You know, I joined this game knowing that there is a big possibility that buddy-gangs like those are likely to kick the new guys instead of one of their own; after all, why let the new players have any fun, when you can let wolf in our midst have it?

Very well, if what you're really want is to play in the same-ol' buddy groups, not letting anyone new nearby, I can't stop you, but consider this - without my role, the villagers are considerably less likely to win. If you hang me, do me a favor and hang all those who voted for me - you have most of your wolves right there. Of course, if your goal is to win, not to merely play in the same, ol' group.

Totally more useful than Shadow.

[Shadow]

Totally more useful than Shadow.

More useful?
I dunno. That remains to be seen.
More deserving?
Maybe. I've never, in two years, been lynched on day one.
I guess it's gotta happen sometime.

But so help me, if Trix turns out to be one of the Kiras and I let 'em live because I was feeling charitable before a day worth celebrating....

*comes home from work
*changes point to Shadow
*heads off to bed before his cousin's wedding tomorrow

[Lex-Kat]

Come on.... Let the new guy survive at least on one day. If you need to take someone out, that pointed at Shadow day one, lynch me, Lex-kat. Seriously. I started the Shadow bandwagon. Why take it out on the new kid?

And as for Shadow being a bad pick for an Alpha game, as someone mentioned, he did an awesome job during Graverobbers. Too awesome, in fact. I know that if I were Alpha, I would ask for him to be one of my wolves.

1. He is NEVER 1st day killed.
2. Most leave him be until there is proof against him, say the seer.
3. There is always the chance that you will kill the true seer during one of the first few days/nights. (In fact, it seems to be happening with frigthening regularity around here. ) If that happens, Shadow is the best to have on your team. Even if he is eventually lynched, he sows a lot of discord and confusion.

Here's a quote from the last Alpha to recruit Shadow:

That actually did play a rather big part in me choosing him. Like lamech said, I never really understood why no alpha would choose Shadow. There are so many benefits of having him on your side, much better than having him against you.

Of course, after this game, I wouldn't be surprised if Shadow gets lynched on first few days in every other alpha game, simply for the Rule of Shadow

[Trixie]

Dude, this game has so many seers that there's no way Shadow (if a wolf) can kill them all before being scried. Can we please not lynch him yet? For real? You're lynching Shadow on Day 1? He's useful if a villager; that is a proven fact. He has almost no chance of being a successful wolf (especially with three scriers (Mellow, Neer, and L).

Well, except: NOT. This game has many seers, yes, but until they can find masons or build enough people to form a net they are just like common villagers. Let's say that happens around day five or six - wouldn't you leap at the chance of having a good player for a six days, which gives an excellent chance of eliminating most of said seers?

Anyway, I can't keep you from ruining this game for me, but when you see what I was do heed to my words and lynch (for the time being) the ones that were pointing on me. Not the ones that were pointing at other people and/or not pointed at all (unless, of course, there's certainty that person in question is a wolf); there's a good reason for that.

I can say just one thing in my defense: I'm not a Kira, nor anyone in any way involved with them - true, they would also say that but as I said I don't know anyone here so the chance that someone would pick a completely green and unknown player is pretty much zero.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Well, except: NOT. This game has many seers, yes, but until they can find masons or build enough people to form a net they are just like common villagers. Let's say that happens around day five or six - wouldn't you leap at the chance of having a good player for a six days, which gives an excellent chance of eliminating most of said seers?

Anyway, I can't keep you from ruining this game for me, but when you see what I was do heed to my words and lynch (for the time being) the ones that were pointing on me. Not the ones that were pointing at other people and/or not pointed at all (unless, of course, there's certainty that person in question is a wolf); there's a good reason for that.

I can say just one thing in my defense: I'm not a Kira, nor anyone in any way involved with them - true, they would also say that but as I said I don't know anyone here so the chance that someone would pick a completely green and unknown player is pretty much zero.

The underlined part....Pretty weak, getting killed ruins the game for that person.. Y'know...Unless (s)he/it wants to be killed....

Also, seers can build up networks, fast.

[Jontom Xire]

Ok, I have to vote now, but....

First, Trixie is clearly inexperienced. From her first statement that veterans would make great team mates for team evil. Wrong. A mistake that alphas have made in several games, and they always get punished for it. The really good veteran players have very well known playing styles and the other really good veteran players tend to spot the wolves among them from the known wolves actions - who they choose to kill etc. etc. Plus the veterans are too obvious a choice, thus making them a bad choice, and then we get into the whole bluff, double bluff, triple bluff, etc. situation where someone isa good alpha pick precisely because they are a bad one. However in my personal experience, bluffing can only take you so far, and when you get called on your bluff the whole game goes down the tubes.

I've been an alpha twice, (at the same time by fluke) and picked a nice mix of competent but relatively low profile players, and we did very very well.

On a more personal note, Trixie these games are not an "old boys club". Play long enough and you'll find out how much personal animosity I can generate, even from people I consider friends, although in UG...well that game's still running so I can't say much, but let's just say that when Mustiado and I found out why we were so convinced that the other was griefing us up so much we were both very very impressed with the person responsible. That person promptly shot to the top of my "watch out for tricksy basterds" list. The point is that in most games there are people we would love to see lynched and there is absolutely no question of lynching you so as to keep newcomers away from the game. We love to see newcomers in these games. So lose the chip on your shoulder. If anything it makes you seem more likely to be on team evil. I've made huge allowances for your being new, but some of the things you have said would put anyone else right at the top of my suspicious list if they had said them. I think that may well be why you have so many votes at you.

Also you said:

On the other hand, we have a veteran player, who would be a great addition to Team Evil - and, now that he had a bandwagon behind him, a new counter-bandwagon trying to save him formed conspicuously fast.

Been there, done that. You have no idea how many times I've been saved from lynch by a counter bandwagon even though everyone wanted me dead. And people KEPT seeing that as suspicious, rather than seeing the truth which is that I was in contact with masons and seer because I had been scried, and because a number of other people recognised from what I said that I was not only on team good, but a very useful member. I have never ever been saved by a counter bandwagon (that I can remember) when on team evil. In fact, I don't think I've ever been lynched with a significant counter-bandwagon in play. And if I have you can guarantee that most of team evil were pointing at me not the other guy.

I think the conspicuously fast counter bandwagon to save him is for two reasons:

1) People know how good he is and realise he'd be very useful as a villager.
2) People find you trying to lynch him very suspicious, and since the counter bandwagon is against you, they can kill two birds with one stone.

Remember that team evil is in the minority here, so getting a counter bandwagon going is very difficult for them. Doing it makes them very obvious and easy to find.

Anyway, lecture over so I point at Murska because it's becoming a tradition and I like traditions.

[Trixie]

The underlined part....Pretty weak, getting killed ruins the game for that person.. Y'know...Unless (s)he/it wants to be killed...

Huh? I don't quite get your point. Are you suggesting I want to be killed?

No, I quite frankly don't. How would you feel, being a new player who just joined a potentially fun game only to be killed within minutes by a tight group of old gamers? Especially if that was also your returning reception after a long vacation?

[Dallas-Dakota]

Huh? I don't quite get your point. Are you suggesting I want to be killed?

No, I quite frankly don't. How would you feel, being a new player who just joined a potentially fun game only to be killed within minutes by a tight group of old gamers? Especially if that was also your returning reception after a long vacation?

No no no. You misunderstood me.

I'm staying that nobody wants to be killed, nobody wants to be killed, though it's a part of what they sign up for, part of what you signed up for.
Also, we're not really a 'tight group of old gamers'. Some of us sticking up for Shadow is because of his current profile, which is currently saying it's unwise for a alpha to pick him. We all kill eachother frequently. When I'm a alpha, or wolf or bad guy, I'm not saying, no don't kill him, I have him on msn and like him!

[TRM]

Well, except: NOT. This game has many seers, yes, but until they can find masons or build enough people to form a net they are just like common villagers. Let's say that happens around day five or six - wouldn't you leap at the chance of having a good player for a six days, which gives an excellent chance of eliminating most of said seers?

Anyway, I can't keep you from ruining this game for me, but when you see what I was do heed to my words and lynch (for the time being) the ones that were pointing on me. Not the ones that were pointing at other people and/or not pointed at all (unless, of course, there's certainty that person in question is a wolf); there's a good reason for that.

I can say just one thing in my defense: I'm not a Kira, nor anyone in any way involved with them - true, they would also say that but as I said I don't know anyone here so the chance that someone would pick a completely green and unknown player is pretty much zero.

Ummm... I'm sorry?

Like I said, I don't want you personally lynched. But, at the time of my point, you were the only other player with enough points to have a possibility of being lynched instead of Shadow.

Very well, if what you're really want is to play in the same-ol' buddy groups, not letting anyone new nearby, I can't stop you, but consider this - without my role, the villagers are considerably less likely to win. If you hang me, do me a favor and hang all those who voted for me - you have most of your wolves right there. Of course, if your goal is to win, not to merely play in the same, ol' group

Fine. Now you want to resort to personal attacks. I'm sorry to hear that; I don't want you to leave GiTP werewolf because you had a bad game, I really don't. But me feeling bad about you (potentially) getting lynched isn't going to change my point.

As Jontom said, if I had seen you play before, your comments would make me actually suspicious of you (rather than the next-most pointed at player); as you mentioned, you have played Werewolf extensively on other sites—you probably know strategy. You may be a complete newcomer to this site, but many of the same tactics apply to any werewolf game. I'm standing by my point.

edit: Trixie, if you're interested you should read some old games; you aren't going to find any examples of people being saved from lynch because they're experienced and everyone likes them—that's not how we play. If anything, it is more likely for veteran players to get lynched.
The closest you are going to find is something like this, where players are saved because they have a very strong reputation of being useful; not "liked," very useful—like Shadow.

[Trixie]

I'm staying that nobody wants to be killed, nobody wants to be killed, though it's a part of what they sign up for, part of what you signed up for.
Also, we're not really a 'tight group of old gamers'. Some of us sticking up for Shadow is because of his current profile, which is currently saying it's unwise for a alpha to pick him. We all kill eachother frequently. When I'm a alpha, or wolf or bad guy, I'm not saying, no don't kill him, I have him on msn and like him!

You know, that was just my impression, from reading the archives. In most of the games I briefly looked at there was a small, close group of the same experienced people, plus a number of other, random names, who were usually the first to go, outvoted by the same group again and again. If my impression was false, feel free to correct me - as I said, I have little experience in the WW games, especially here.

As for staying alive part - yes, it is very hard to see why a new guy who is about to be kicked out the moment he signed up might be angry abut it, right, eh, bien?

I'm sorry if I overdid my reaction, but you can guess how I was happy about all that. Okay, I'm going to keep my mouth shut from this moment on.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Y'see Trixie.
You started doing way to much reading and judging on day 1. Day 1 is usually a random lynch.
The fact is, you were only bandwagoned because you made such a fuss out of who to be lynched and stubbornly pointing at Shadow under the reason of 'he is a experienced player', which is a pretty flawed logic. And then made a mess of three, yes, three people pointing at you.

[Trixie]

Fine. Now you want to resort to personal attacks. I'm sorry to hear that; I don't want you to leave GiTP werewolf because you had a bad game, I really don't. But me feeling bad about you (potentially) getting lynched isn't going to change my point.

[Sighs] As I already apologized for overdoing that - it was not my intention to offend anyone. It was just... You know.

In fact, I jokingly made a bet with a friend that I'll be lynched on the first day, based on observations of various games - and seeing to come true in an instant just upset me a bit.

As Jontom said, if I had seen you play before, your comments would make me actually suspicious of you (rather than the next-most pointed at player); as you mentioned, you have played Werewolf extensively on other sites—you probably know strategy. You may be a complete newcomer to this site, but many of the same tactics apply to any werewolf game. I'm standing by my point.

Um, nope. Yes, I played several games on the net, but only about half of them ever got to the end, and the players were mostly inept, interested only in kicking each other instead of winning. As several people already pointed out, in terms of and actual, hardcore game I'm pretty much green.

Btw, that will teach me to keep my trap shut in the future

So no, I won't quit WW after just one game, but if it will look like that in all of the future games... well. We shall see.

[Trixie]

The fact is, you were only bandwagoned because you made such a fuss out of who to be lynched and stubbornly pointing at Shadow under the reason of 'he is a experienced player', which is a pretty flawed logic. And then made a mess of three, yes, three people pointing at you.

Excuse me? I pointed at Banjo, and I've only changed my vote as I didn't wished him kicked on the day one. See where my good heart got me?

I don't see where I made a fuss out of him being an experienced player - but besides that, the point is still valid. Also, I don't buy the 'he is a too good villager to lose him' defense - that would apply to other good players as well - and yet, people had no problem with pointing on, say, Lameh, Murska, Banjo, or Fin - only one was defended, namely Banjo, and on entirely different ground, namely that he's back after a long absence (which is suspicious in itself in game where wolves are picked).

No sir, the pretty much only instant defense was that of Shadow. If that was a normal game, I wouldn't try to analyze anything, but if this is the game where wolves are picked - they are bound to try and kill anyone trying to point them out. So yes, I accused the group defending Shadow because it was all too unbelievably convenient and cute (yesss, wolves surely picked all of the most inept guys in order to win). And why should I not accuse them? You, for example, pointed at me because you've never saw me here. A fantastic reason, new guy who doesn't know anything is surely the lead wolf!

The only other group that might have mounted such a rapid response are masons, and it is far too unlikely that Shadow was one. If he is a villager, like all of you claim, he is still less valuable than me, for various reasons.