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Thread: Eberron: paying taxes?
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2012-04-07, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Eberron: paying taxes?
I've seen several references in the Eberron sourcebooks to paying taxes, but not any rates or tables for the actual amounts.
Am I overlooking something obvious?
Are they deeply hidden?
Or are they just non-existent?"I may be wrong, but Reddit is about reading everyone elses comment as if they are trying to attack your very soul, and then responding in a way to degrade them in some fashion." - Mangalz
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2012-04-07, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
At a guess, they're not meant to be mechanical in a hard-and-fast way. If you think it's appropriate for PCs to have to pay taxes, the books might have some suggestions as to who might be taxing them and why, but there probably aren't specific numbers for it.
This is all just conjecture on my part. I haven't read the parts in question, at least not in a long time.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
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2012-04-07, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
Adventurers are, famously, heavily armed murderous hobos who show no respect whatsoever to anyone who isn't in their clique of 4-6 similarly minded individuals. They poke around in terrifically dangerous caves and crypts on the off chance that one of their might contain treasure, slaughtering any creature that objects to this behavior.
Once successful, they break open chests full of archaeological treasures like piggy banks, and refuse to spend their ill-gotten gains on housing, food, or anything but weapons, armor, and magical items. They treat being reminded to eat and bathe as nuisance bookkeeping, have a statistically unlikely probability of being orphans, and regard entire species that consider them to be mortal foes as "cannon fodder".
I would assume that they owe back taxes.
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2012-04-07, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
Avatar by K penguin. Sash by Damned1rishman.
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2012-04-07, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
It depends of if they have a place of residence. Most adventurers probably don't, and wander from country to country. In addition, let me ask you, "Do you have to pay taxes if you find a 20$ bill on the ground?"
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2012-04-07, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
@Connington Thank you for that laugh, and it brings up a good point. We can't think of taxation in the traditional sense in terms of applying to adventurers. In a game I am in now, the Duke of the area actually formed an office, the Office of Adventuring and Dungeoneering (it's basically the DMV), which specifically deals with both licensing adventurers, and handling adventuring contracts. All adventurers have to be licensed (which includes a fee), and in order to complete the licensing process they have to join an adventuring guild. Each guild has to have a guild hall and lodging for members (which it pays property taxes on), as well as paying a fee to remain an official adventuring guild. In turn, the guilds make their money by taking some of the spoils of their members, when their members complete contracts given by the guild. If a person wants to hire adventurers, they go to the OAD, which in turn gives the contract to a guild (it seems like it is only one guild that gets each contract, so presumably they bid over them), and then the guild members can find the contracts in the guild halls. Adventurers accept the contract, go do their thing, keep the loot and also get a fee for the contract (which the OAD actually pays half of, since the Duke wants people to be willing to hire adventurers if they are in trouble).
My point is, trying to tax adventurers directly would probably be difficult to implement and probably pointless, much like it would have been pointless for feudal lords to try to take taxes from each individual person, rather than simply taking a share of the harvest.
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2012-04-07, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
Well historically taxes were 10%. Tithe being literally 'a tenth part'.
However this breaks down real fast in D&D.
When we are talking 10% of your annual wheat harvest, it works well. But PC wealth quickly skyrockets to stratospheric levels compared to the rest of mundane society. Even a tenth part of PC wealth would quickly be a silly value compare to the operating budget of any mundane pursuits.
I'm assuming here you register adventuring Parties rather than individuals since solo adventure's have a name where I'm from. "Lunch"
A 15th level part's taxes at 10% would be 20k, which is enough cash to break the economy of a small city.
It's also enough money to raise and feed a small army 300-400 men depending on the quality of gear. If I were your PC's I'd be tempted to spend my tax money on starting my own kingdom and daring Duke Tightfisted to come and try to collect some taxes off me.
the flip side of that is of coruse, a realistically low value is going to quickly be low enough that PC's tend not to care at all. When dues are a GP a year (Quite high on a mundane budget) PC's tend to buy memberships by the decade.Last edited by TypoNinja; 2012-04-07 at 06:01 PM.
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2012-04-07, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
Also, very few adventurers will buy a cottage on market street. They're all going to have, like, floating cubes of ice suspended over the Chasm of Gar'Nicheg or something where it would require a small army (or one man with a long ladder) just to reach the front door.
That said, with most adventurers being Good, they'd happily contribute to the country by killing a dragon here or stopping the imminent destruction of the world there. They're probably on first name terms with the king, to be honest.Last edited by shadow_archmagi; 2012-04-07 at 07:59 PM.
Avatar by K penguin. Sash by Damned1rishman.
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2012-04-07, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
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2012-04-07, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
who'se highest level NPC clocks in at 12th.
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2012-04-07, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
Good PCs will abuse the trap rules just to mess with the Tax collectors, causing an entire war between them and the country once the country realizes they have 50,000gp(Think of that in NPC terms...)
Fighter:"Hey guys, another tax collector is walking up to the door again."
Cleric:"Don't worry we'll---"
Kobold Artificer "Wait for it..."
NPC "My eeeyes! What? I can't hear anything either? Help! Help!"
Blindness/Deafness trap ftw*
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2012-04-07, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
that... would actually make for a very fun session if the party was Chaotic...
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2012-04-07, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
If you're wondering who the tax collectors are, the Coin Lords are pretty much the top dogs in that area from what I've seen in DDO. Once, you get hired by a member of them to collect some guy's overdue taxes for him.
Spoiler
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2012-04-07, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-07, 11:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-08, 06:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-08, 08:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
Warlock Poetry?
Or ways to use me in game?
Better grab a drink...
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2012-04-08, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
I'd pay in salt.
What? It's a trade good, feudal systems usually took tax in goods as well as coinage, so it's totally legal. Pay in salt, by the ton.
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2012-04-08, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
Even better, first the local taxmaster sends the heroes out to collect some money from a few goblins in the woods, then as soon as they receive their just reward:
"Ah thanks for taking the overdue taxes from the goblins. 100 gps and like agreed you will receive half of it."
[party turns to leave]
"Mhm... wait a minute. Are you registred taxpayers somewhere? No? Oh by the word of my lord you're now citizens of his realm and therefore have to pay taxes."
[appraisecheck]
"Now all your magic items and the gold in your pockets sums up to roundabout 150,000 gps and a tenth will go to your new rightful ruler the king"
[Guards surround the party]
"Do you prefer to pay in gold or platinum?"
Bonuspoints if it is a good kingdom and a paladin (or something lawfull) in the party.Last edited by Bouregard; 2012-04-08 at 08:44 AM.
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2012-04-08, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eberron: paying taxes?
As much as I tend towards simulationism I wouldn't ever bother taxing the average adventuring party except maybe with tolls. Taxes in pre-modern states were mostly on land and trade, things most adventurers don't bother with. There's no personal income tax or a property tax that covers the stuff you carry on your person. If there's a tax on the trade of magic items one can assume that's covered by the 50% you loose from selling them.
Of course what constitutes a legitimate authority and reasonable taxation was probably much more vague back then. Some robber knight might exact a toll that amounted to theft on the people traveling on his road. Arbitrary taxation, or even just slightly more taxation, was also a pretty good recipe for revolt.
So if the adventurers are suddenly faced with a tax collector that demands 10% of their stuff even the lawful members might consider that unjust as a breach of accepted norms. Any DM that had his NPCs make that demand should also expect a battle.
If however your adventurers actually own land or property you might have to start thinking about what they should pay or whether they might be exempt as clergy or nobility and what other services they might then be obliged to render.Last edited by Ormur; 2012-04-08 at 08:58 AM.
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2012-04-08, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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