LGBTAI+ 54: A Full Deck

[Togath]

Welcome to the 54th iteration of the LGBTAI thread!

Notice: This is mostly a support thread. There is an LGBTAI+ Q&A Thread right here.

The AI is for All-Inclusive because we have only so much space in the title, but everyone, regardless of orientation, direction, letter, acronym or chosen astrological symbol is welcome here!

We do, unfortunately, have a few rules. We are not an anarchist state! Or, we weren't until we voted we were? But shush.

1. We are primarily a support thread.
This means that the primary focus should be in helping people here feel better; about themselves, about their lives, about their problems. We are also an education thread, but when helping someone learn involves not supporting, we will default to support - Mostly. We are only mostly human, after all.

All of the other rules are basically precisions of rule #1.

2. If you want answers to triggering topics, spoiler-box or ask them privately.
Triggering topics are those which are likely to make other people feel bad, in any way whatsoever: for instance, rape, violence, bullying and many others may be triggering to some people. If someone, even just that one individual person, has a problem with a topic because it stirs demons best left in their pit, Do. Not. Bring. It. Up. Publicly. Use a spoiler box and think carefully about whether this is the place to broach the topic at all (see rule #1: "We are primarily a support thread.")

If you have questions or need help on something that involves triggering topics, please use spoiler tags and label your spoilers for trigger warnings. When in doubt, put trigger warnings.

3. Avoid discussing politics or religion.
It doesn't matter how much these two topics intersect with our forum topic, they are verboten. Sometimes, hints are...looked over, such as, "Man, in my country being gay sucks," but detail is right out, and even that could be considered willful disregard. Be careful. As the moderators themselves often say, if you aren't sure, don't.

4. Do not discuss moral justification.
No one here is going to discuss whether or not it's Right" or "Okay" to be LGBTAEIOUsometimesY or anything else. It's not topical, it's not relevant. We are, and we are here to cope with that and with the stresses it causes.
And no, my joking acronym doesn't constitute considering this rule less important.

5. Do not post sexually explicit content.
It's against forum rules, it's against decorum, and it will get us shut down pretty fast. What adults do behind closed doors is cool, and allusion is fine. Anything that could involve a diagram, though? No.

6. Avoid unfriendly debates.
Several topics of conversation have created huge arguments that made several people uncomfortable and defied our goal of being a support thread. This is especially true debates of definition. These do not always end well, and are best avoided.

This thread has a past of traumatic experiences which we would rather not repeat, and some topics which have created (in)famous rows include:
- the precise distinction between bi- and pansexual;
- what is or isn't a polyamorous relationship;
- whether transgender is more correct than transgendered.
(Other topics may be added to the list.)
Unless you need support or help about this, please refrain from bringing up these topics.

Also, if a conversation that is not about support runs long, spoiler it if possible, even if it is polite.

Glossary of Common Terms

For reference, here is a list of commonly-used words in our community along with their definitions. Please keep in mind that this vocabulary is constantly evolving and that this list may not be complete. Any contributions to the list are appreciated.

Spoiler

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LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*

LGBTAI: LGBT+Asexual/Allies+Intersex/All-Inclusive

QUILTBAG:
Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender/Transsexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer

GSRM: Gender, Sexuality, and Romantic Minorities; sometimes only GSM

Where a word below is in italics, that means it has its own entry on the list.

A note on labels: many of these labels are seemingly interchangeable, and for some people they are. However, please do not presume to correct or judge another person's use of a label. Bisexual and pansexual are especially tricky in this regard, as are transgender and transsexual to a lesser degree.
Often the difference in why one person feels one label is appropriate and not another is deeply personal. If you wish to know more it is probably a topic to seek private advice on, from one of the people listed in the next section.

AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth

Agender: Someone who lacks a gender.

Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.

Androsexual: A person who is attracted to men.

Asexual: A person who does not feel sexual attraction.

Bigender: Someone who identifies as both male and female (or as any two genders) either simultaneously or alternating. See also Genderqueer, Genderfluid

Binary, The: See: Gender Binary.

Bisexual: 1. attracted to two genders; 2. attracted to one's own gender and another gender; 3. attracted to various genders; 4. attracted to people regardless of gender; 5. ask the person who says they're bi what exactly they mean by that. See also Pansexual

Cis: See: Cisgender

Cisgender (CG): Somebody whose gender and sex align.

Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone only after they have formed an intense emotional relationship with them.

Dysphoria: The etymological opposite of "euphoria." A state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction. In this context, generally referring to the discomfort or dissociation Trans* people feel with their own body.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Female: See: Woman

Female-to-Male (FtM): Someone who was assigned female at birth, but is male. (AKA: trans man)

FAAB: Female Assigned at Birth.

Feminine: Something generally associated by society with women.

FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Associated primarily with MAAB Trans people

FtM: See: Female to Male

Gay: See: homosexual.

Gender Binary: The commonly held notion that there are only men and women on two extremes, with nothing in between.

Gender Expression (GE): How one expresses their Gender Identity to society.

Gender Identity (GI): How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other".

Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between different genders.

Genderqueer (GQ): Someone who is not of a binary gender; someone who is neither male nor female.

Gynosexual: A person who is attracted to women.

Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.

Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their own gender.

HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's tend to progesterone, estrogens and androgen blockers, while FtM's take testosterone almost exclusively.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.

MAAB: Male Assigned at Birth.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Man/men: A cis man or trans man. Male.

Masculine: Something generally associated by society with men.

Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender. See also Bisexual

Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.

Presenting: Trans* shorthand for appearing as their preferred gender, regardless of any HRT, SRS or other changes.

Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender primarily, with the asterisk denoting that the trans- prefix could be followed by any number of appropriate words. It also includes other labels, and is a catch-all term for people who identify as something other than their biological sex at birth.

Transgender: Used in reference to a person whose sex(body) and gender(mind) are at odds or do not match. A transgender person can also identify as genderqueer, transsexual, or may use transgender as their only identity.

Transitioning: The process a Trans* person undergoes to move to their preferred gender. Often includes HRT, SRS, FFS.

Transsexual: In common terms the same as transgender above. In medical terms refers specifically to people who wish to transition from male to female or female to male, not accommodating any other options.

SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.

Sexual Orientation (SO): How one identifies who they are attracted to.

Significant Other(s) (SO): Person(s) you are in a relationship with.

Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa. Also a person who feels they do not identify with any other gender identity.

Woman: A cis woman or trans woman. Female.

Allies: Heterosexual-Cisgender people who support equality for sexual, gender, and romantic minorities.

Private Consultation.

We have a list of people whoa re willing and able to discuss topics that may not be thread-appropriate but are still topical. They can be reached by Personal Message (PM), thought they may not respond immediately, or may be on sabbatical.

Spoiler: Topical Consultants

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Name: Especially familiar with the topic(s) of
Absol197: Gender identity issues.
Philemonite: Relationships, depression.
Astrella: GSRM rights, feminism, trans stuff, Skype.
Chess435: Skype.
Eirala: Trans stuff (esp emotional issues), Skype(no voice or video, however).
Eldest: General/basics, bisexuality, polyamory, pansexuality will Skype(voice if needed, no video).
Enrico Dandolo (Caroline): Trans stuff, mental health, feminism, asexuality, hugs, make-up advice. PM first, Skype chat if asked.
Golentan: Mental health, fluid and questioning sexualities, and issues arising from sexual trauma.
HMS Sophia: Trans stuff (esp hormones).
inuyasha: Shoulder on which to cry, someone to listen.
Irish Musician: PM, Rants/Venting.
KenderWizard: General/basics, gender and feminism, bisexuality.
Kesnit: Trans stuff (FtM), legal issues.
Lea Plath: Genderfluidity.
Lentrax: General/basics, depression, bullying.
Lix Lorn: General/basics.
Lycunadari: Genderqueer and agendered.
Metditto: PM/Skype for L, T, GQ, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), demisexual, feminism, therapy, depression, dissociative identities.
Musashi: General/basics, asexuality/demisexuality, depression.
Mystic Muse: Skype-y goodness.
noparlpf: General/basics, asexuality, greysexuality, biology, Skype.
Partysan: PM/Skype, polyamory, pansexuality, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), Rants/Venting.
Socratov: Skype-ness.
TaiLiu: General Transgender information, transphobia.
Warkitty: Academic/technical discussions, Make-up advice.
Wormwood74: Transgender legal issues, transgender outside contacts.

Some people are also willing to talk off-board, through Skype or email or other means; this is especially useful if your question involves board-forbidden topics such as religion or politics. Also, we can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional!

And as a parting note, I will say that even though moderators do not read PMs, they are still part of the forum and still subject to forums rules. Non-allowed topics and discussion should NOT be conducted via PM.


Previous Incarnations

Like the Glorious and Unconquered Sun, we have risen, lived, died, and risen anew, with many faces, many voices, many hearts. In this past, much can be found, both good, and bad, should one be brave or perhaps, foolish, enough to seek it.

Spoiler: Past Threads

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1. LGBT people in the playground
   
2. LGBT people in the playground - part II
   
3. LGBTitp - part III
   
4. LGBTitp 4: We are a family?
   
5. LGBTitp - Part Five
   
6. LGBTitp - Part Six
   
7. LGBTitp - Part Seven
   
8. LGBTitp - Part Eight
   
9. LGBTitp - Part Nine
   
10. LGBTAitp - Part Ten
    
11. LGBTAitp - Part Eleven
    
12. LGBTAitp - Part Twelve
    
13. LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
    
14. LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen
    
15. LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen
    
16. LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen
    
17. LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen
    
18. LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen!
    
19. LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen
    
20. LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit!
    
21. LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK!
    
22. LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is
    
23. LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca?
    
24. LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins!
    
25. LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles
    
26. LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles
    
27. LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
    
28. LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
    
29. LGBTAitP #29: The Rainbow Outreach Program
    
30. LGBTAitP 30: Free Cuddles (Enquire Within)
    
31. LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles!
    
32. LGBTAitp #32: The Great Plushie Invasion!
    
33. LGBTAitp #33: The Thread at the End of the Rainbow!
    
34. LGTAitP #34: <3!!
    
35. LGBTAitp #35: What Midlife Crisis? :3
    
36. LGBTAitp #36: May Contain Bites!
    
37. LGBTAitP #37: Once upon a time...
    
38. LGBTAitP #38: Once More With Feeling!!
    
39. LGBTAitP #38: Making Your Way in the World Today....
    
40. LGBTAitP #40: Technicolour Partyboat
    
41. LGBTAitp #41 - Imprecise Terminology Supercenter
    
42. LGBTAitp #42: Better Than Skittles/The Meaning of Life!
    
43. LGBTAitp #43 [Insert snappy subtitle here]
    
44. LGBTAIitP #44: Quick, We Need To Vote A New Title!
    
45. LGBTAIitP #45: Rainbow Anarchy
    
46. LGBTAitP #46: I Cast Prismatic Hugs
    
47. LGBTAIitp #47: Weather Control Central
    
48. LGBTAIitp #48: For a Cuddly Tomorrow!
    
49. LGBTAIitp #49: Please check all baggage before boarding the Rainbow Rail Road
    
50. LGBTAI+ #50: Warning: This Thread Has Exceeded its Maximum Awesome Level
    
51. LGBTAI+ 51: Lay That Hammer Down!
    
52. LGBTAI+ 52: Aces High
    
53. LGBTAI+ 53: The Nefarious Rainbow Syndicate
    

Webcomics that touch on... Well, everything related to the thread.

Spoiler

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Venus Envy. Long dead webcomic. The creator has chosen not to continue it and move forward in life.
Rain. A story of a MtF girl in high school.
Khaos Komix.As the creator puts it(from his site): "A complete GLBTWTFBBQ comic about gender and sexuality. (Trigger warnings for EVERYTHING and nothing is safe for work.)"
Always Raining Here. "Adrian is heartsick, Carter is horny. This is a story about their misadventures as awkward teenagers as they fumble through unrequited romances."
Tripping over you.An awkward blind date leads to better options.
Questionable Content. The LGBTA characters are fairly well done, and not stereotypes.
What's normal anyway. "What’s Normal Anyway? is a comic that discusses the trans male experience through the story of Mel, who takes the big risk of being himself and transitioning from female to male."
Princess. A webcomic.
Twokinds. Keveak: "It generally portrays GRSM matters positively and is quite a nice tale overall."
Misfile The Rose Dragon: "Ash is a young boy who, as a result of a screw-up in Heaven, gets stuck in a girl's body in a life he doesn't recognize, and has to deal with the changes and challenges of his new body while trying to get back his old life. Supernatural hijinks and car racing are involved."
Portside Stories A cute(and recently started) webcomic.
El Goonish Shive A long running webcomic, that I've heard often touches on lgbta relevant stuff.

I know I missed a few webcomics, and if anyone finds more, feel free to PM them to me with a brief description, and I will add them.
*as a shift from the usual copy/paste, I will add: I'm bad at writing up descriptions of things

The Brand New LGBTA Arts & Crafts Thread!

[Ravens_cry]

Reposting post from previous thread.

Gaffs. They're specifically designed (in a few different ways depending on style) to make sure there's no visible bulge from panties because unlike most lady's undergarments they are sewn with a penis in mind and the intention of keeping it out of sight.

Can compression underwear also work? On one hand, sure, they won't be designed to also look like pretty panties, but they are also at least a little less of a speciality product, so are going to be, in theory, less expensive.

[Lentrax]

Having not worn either, I cannot say. Though I would imagine the compression underpants would not be as effective as a gaff, since they were not designed to conceal.

[Jormengand]

Oh, hey, a thread. Hey people.

[SiuiS]

That is a very uncomfortable article to read, Lena. I think there's a valid point that's missed, that some of is don't address the issue in the way brought up because it opens out own wounds.

I don't have enough left in me to re-examine every cut and laceration, to pluck apart the stitches and let them freely, redly weep just so I can deny the knives that caused them. However pretty a picture, however useful a blueprint could be found in the blood of my wounds afterward, I cannot say it's worth it. Examining the validity of cisnormative beauty standards isn't done because many of us are seen together with spit and hope, and wouldn't survive the sutures being exposed to scrutiny.

It's a collective communal silence, so that there is a collective community left.

[Anarion]

That is a very uncomfortable article to read, Lena. I think there's a valid point that's missed, that some of is don't address the issue in the way brought up because it opens out own wounds.

I don't have enough left in me to re-examine every cut and laceration, to pluck apart the stitches and let them freely, redly weep just so I can deny the knives that caused them. However pretty a picture, however useful a blueprint could be found in the blood of my wounds afterward, I cannot say it's worth it. Examining the validity of cisnormative beauty standards isn't done because many of us are seen together with spit and hope, and wouldn't survive the sutures being exposed to scrutiny.

It's a collective communal silence, so that there is a collective community left.

There's an amount of pain there that rends my heart. There may be other ways to make changes, but for the moment, I mostly just feel like giving you a hug. *hugs*

[SiuiS]

My instinct is to dissemble or play humble. I will simply say, 'thank you' instead.

[golentan]

Anyone else get some homoerotic vibes coming from Thorin and Bilbo in the latest movie? (Terrible movie, but I enjoyed it despite hating it intensely)

[Anarion]

Anyone else get some homoerotic vibes coming from Thorin and Bilbo in the latest movie? (Terrible movie, but I enjoyed it despite hating it intensely)

I haven't seen it, but I'm going to it tomorrow. I shall keep my eyes open.

[golentan]

I haven't seen it, but I'm going to it tomorrow. I shall keep my eyes open.

They emphasize the word "friend" a lot, in a way that made me wonder. I shan't give spoilers.

[Astrella]

That is a very uncomfortable article to read, Lena. I think there's a valid point that's missed, that some of is don't address the issue in the way brought up because it opens out own wounds.

I don't have enough left in me to re-examine every cut and laceration, to pluck apart the stitches and let them freely, redly weep just so I can deny the knives that caused them. However pretty a picture, however useful a blueprint could be found in the blood of my wounds afterward, I cannot say it's worth it. Examining the validity of cisnormative beauty standards isn't done because many of us are seen together with spit and hope, and wouldn't survive the sutures being exposed to scrutiny.

It's a collective communal silence, so that there is a collective community left.

Mew. I know mew. The burden of changing cis normative beauty standards shouldn't be on us though mew, that's something that allies can help a lot with mew, calling out that stuff, trying to change it. Trans women shouldn't be responsible for a society that pushes that crap on us.

[Anarion]

They emphasize the word "friend" a lot, in a way that made me wonder. I shan't give spoilers.

They departed from the book enough that it's possible for the movie to have spoilers?

[golentan]

Nah, but still. I got shouted at the last time I revealed what I thought was not a spoiler here.

[Astrella]

I admit the thought did cross my mind while watching it too, Golly. But I think like, Dwarves attach a lot and a lot of importance to friendship + the books being written in a different age probably means it wasn't intended.

----

Spoiler: Terminology related to sex.

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I also picked up a term related to sex that might be useful: valprehension. Essentially what the person being penetrated by something does. Can be helpful for trans women who feel dysphoric / uncomfortable around penetration and similar terms, and also helps remove the idea that places the person penetrating as being the only actor.

[golentan]

I admit the thought did cross my mind while watching it too, Golly. But I think like, Dwarves attach a lot and a lot of importance to friendship + the books being written in a different age probably means it wasn't intended.

----

I also picked up a term related to sex that might be useful: valprehension. Essentially what the person being penetrated by something does. Can be helpful for trans women who feel dysphoric / uncomfortable around penetration and similar terms, and also helps remove the idea that places the person penetrating as being the only actor.

Huh, that's an interesting word... I can't find a dictionary definition for it... Do you have a more in depth explanation?

Also:

Spoiler: The Hobbit

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I guess the point where I started wondering was towards the end. Two people got drawn out, intended as touching death scenes where they passed a message to someone, Fili mouths "I Love You" to Tauriel and Thorin apologizes for everything to Bilbo and tells him he is a dear friend.

And that got me thinking about the repeated use of that word, Friend, especially in the final scene when Bilbo returns to Bag End and has a long pause where he searches for the right word for what Thorin was to him.

[Astrella]

@Golly; I got it from this.

And yeah, about the Bilbo - Thorin thing, those were the same moments that gave me that impression too.

[Ravens_cry]

It could be a culture shift, much like how Sam and Frodo evoked a lot of the same feelings for many in the Lord of the Rings movies,
Still, I certainly did not get that feeling from them in the Hobbit novel, so maybe Peter Jackson just really likes writing slash.

[Kunie]

Didn't even notice this thread until a minute ago. Nice to meet you all.

[Coidzor]

I admit the thought did cross my mind while watching it too, Golly. But I think like, Dwarves attach a lot and a lot of importance to friendship + the books being written in a different age probably means it wasn't intended.

----

Spoiler: Terminology related to sex.

Show

I also picked up a term related to sex that might be useful: valprehension. Essentially what the person being penetrated by something does. Can be helpful for trans women who feel dysphoric / uncomfortable around penetration and similar terms, and also helps remove the idea that places the person penetrating as being the only actor.

Spoiler: Sex Terminology

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Makes sense, good to have another term to more finely refer to what's going on during sex there, since the existing terminology is just... awful. Makes writing and reading erotica require a mutual agreement to suspend disbelief or be so horny that one's "what am I reading?" centers deactivate.

Spoiler: Responses to the blogs introducing the term and its root term

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It's kind of weird, at least where I've found the Valprehension wordpress explaining why they invented the term after running into the verb valprehend, which seems to just be, well, kegels and kegel-equivalents. This person has an awful lot invested in the idea that a person cannot penetrate themselves, which was rather... incongruous with the general thrust of their ethos otherwise.

Also I'm kind of disappointed they didn't even address the fact that there is, in fact, non-valprehensive agency, not even by dismissing it as an irrelevant quibble. But, then, I suppose there's several components of this post which are already close enough to quibbling they wouldn't want to actually bring up that subject at all.

Always impressive when you have to read half of a piece of writing to get to someone's thesis, though.

Other than that, yeah, the term itself makes sense, even though it sounds like it'd be a bit... lulzy the first few times one uttered it or tried to use it in a sentece. If we were elsewhere on the internet we could go back and forth over the semantics and headspace and if you're going to invent this term you might as well also pair it with a bottom-sexuality equivalent to top-sexuality's "thrusting."

Actually, looking at the blog which invented the term valprehend itself which valprehension is derived from... I know it's been a half decade since 2010 when Valprehend was invented, but even before then I've encountered language about both women and men actively participating in penetrative sex, even with a lack of a specific term, so I find this assertion to the level of dogma that we were completley unable to discuss the idea of a woman having active agency and participation in penetrative sex rather than less able to be... flawed and slightly confusing.

Even without that there's still a clear need and purpose established for inventing the term and for wanting to propagate awareness of it.

Not sure how many people are going to get the Val = Strength = Feel Powerful idea. That'd be interesting to find out though.

Huh. And at the end they still seem to have not escaped a binary state where one partner is passive and one partner is active, so both partners or, all partners in a 3+ sexual encounter, cannot be active at the same time. Interesting. Disappointing, but interesting. I hope they've found a way for both partners to be actively engaged in sex in the intervening 5 years since writing that.

[Shadowscale]

What makes one transsexual, I always used the distinction of someone being fully transitioned and with all the surgeries, but I have trouble finding people who can accurately separate the two. Compared to transgendered that is.

[Coidzor]

What makes one transsexual, I always used the distinction of someone being fully transitioned and with all the surgeries, but I have trouble finding people who can accurately separate the two. Compared to transgendered that is.

A lot of it seems to depend on the individual person, who they're addressing, and what year it is/was.

Much like whether people will get cheesed off for using "transgender" or "transgendered."

It could be a culture shift, much like how Sam and Frodo evoked a lot of the same feelings for many in the Lord of the Rings movies,
Still, I certainly did not get that feeling from them in the Hobbit novel, so maybe Peter Jackson just really likes writing slash.

Well, more people relative to who watched the movies wanted Sam and Frodo to bone or thought they'd been boning than people who read the books, IIRC.

So I think Peter Jackson and his crew definitely had sommat to do with the matter, yes, even if it was just a natural consequence of trying to depict a relationship between two males on film.

[Comrade]

Didn't even notice this thread until a minute ago. Nice to meet you all.

Hey! Welcome to the forums and to this thread!

[Kunie]

Hey! Welcome to the forums and to this thread!

Thank you, and a pleasure to meet you. I hope I'm not being too much of a dork, haha. I identify as pansexual and genderqueer, if anyone is curious. :)

*leaves tea and cookies out for everyone*

[Anarion]

I'm not sure if it's Jackson, or if it's just the age in combination with visual media. Like, Sam carried Frodo up the mountain because he collapsed doesn't, as a text file, obviously shout out erotic homosexual undertones. But if you take that and show Sam Gamgee, overwrought with emotion, lift up Frodo and carry him up the mountain, their bodies right up against each other, it's going to make people think about what feelings they might have.

Didn't even notice this thread until a minute ago. Nice to meet you all.

*Ahem* You're a Raven-bunny! Squeeeeeeee.

I mean, hi, welcome.

[Vwulf DeMarcus]

Hey look, a thread. Hi all! :)

[Kunie]

I'm not sure if it's Jackson, or if it's just the age in combination with visual media. Like, Sam carried Frodo up the mountain because he collapsed doesn't, as a text file, obviously shout out erotic homosexual undertones. But if you take that and show Sam Gamgee, overwrought with emotion, lift up Frodo and carry him up the mountain, their bodies right up against each other, it's going to make people think about what feelings they might have.



*Ahem* You're a Raven-bunny! Squeeeeeeee.

I mean, hi, welcome.

*hugs* Hey there, I appreciate your squees!

Hey look, a thread. Hi all! :)

Howdy, Vwulf. :)

[SiuiS]

It's entirely possible we are all just conditioned and don't realize it.

Romance between me was not always a bad thing. The bond of brothers, the bond of companions at arms, is a thing that still exists; it's been depicted in the last few decades as "so manly it cuts through the girl ones right back around to Man Town, suck it up", but despite poor presentation it's still a thing. You'll hear that a lot. One of my favorites was a well-delivered off-hand joke by a character on scrubs, saying "is it that I have the name Terry tattooed on my butt? We were partners in the war. You would understand if you knew what we went through […]", and that's it. There's an undercurrent of a fierce love between two people who shouldn't love each other, based on respect and deep empathy, that is seemingly alien to folks now because the culture that engendered it – that made it necessary, to have some human link even in the depths of social sociopathy – simply doesn't exists anymore.

This goes both ways. You have people who just cannot grok non-"relationship sexy times getting married homosexual totally secret closet" relationships between men, and you get people who know they're supposed to depict such a thing but don't know how. You end up with the same sort of tunnel vision as in romance novel fantasies. A romance novel is full of what's basically abuse; but because it's bought into as part of the genre, it's acceptable. It's consensual.

With these guys, you'll get people who understand that the homoromantic undertones are a shorthand for a close bond that's not really homoromantic, or you'll get people who won't buy in who see homoeroticism.

My thoughts, Anyway.

It could be a culture shift, much like how Sam and Frodo evoked a lot of the same feelings for many in the Lord of the Rings movies,
Still, I certainly did not get that feeling from them in the Hobbit novel, so maybe Peter Jackson just really likes writing slash.

Headcanon accepted.

[spoiler="Coidzor"]

Makes sense, good to have another term to more finely refer to what's going on during sex there, since the existing terminology is just... awful. Makes writing and reading erotica require a mutual agreement to suspend disbelief or be so horny that one's "what am I reading?" centers deactivate.

Interesting. Do you have examples? I'm not seeing it.

it's kind of weird, at least where I've found the Valprehension wordpress explaining why they invented the term after running into the verb valprehend, which seems to just be, well, kegels and kegel-equivalents. This person has an awful lot invested in the idea that a person cannot penetrate themselves, which was rather... incongruous with the general thrust of their ethos otherwise.

Mm. I read it as "to take into" as opposed to just squeeze.

Also I'm kind of disappointed they didn't even address the fact that there is, in fact, non-valprehensive agency, not even by dismissing it as an irrelevant quibble. But, then, I suppose there's several components of this post which are already close enough to quibbling they wouldn't want to actually bring up that subject at all.

I don't know the background enough to get it. What sorts of other nonvalprehensive agency?

Other than that, yeah, the term itself makes sense, even though it sounds like it'd be a bit... lulzy the first few times one uttered it or tried to use it in a sentece. If we were elsewhere on the internet we could go back and forth over the semantics and headspace and if you're going to invent this term you might as well also pair it with a bottom-sexuality equivalent to top-sexuality's "thrusting."

Actually, looking at the blog which invented the term valprehend itself which valprehension is derived from... I know it's been a half decade since 2010 when Valprehend was invented, but even before then I've encountered language about both women and men actively participating in penetrative sex, even with a lack of a specific term, so I find this assertion to the level of dogma that we were completley unable to discuss the idea of a woman having active agency and participation in penetrative sex rather than less able to be... flawed and slightly confusing.

Even without that there's still a clear need and purpose established for inventing the term and for wanting to propagate awareness of it.

Mm. This seems to me like someone who is simply both naive in a way, and passionate. Passion leads to tunnel vision sometimes.

Not sure how many people are going to get the Val = Strength = Feel Powerful idea. That'd be interesting to find out though.

Don't know if it relates to Sapir-worf like I feel it would, but yes. Mentally using an active term rather than a passive receptive one changes the texture of the thought and also requires rewording sentences and paragraphs to account for it's proper use. It accidentally structures things in a way which makes the valprehendor into an active power figure, both in their action taken and in their decision to utilize or not utilize that action as a meta level power play.

This plays interestingly into a changeling I was running for a while actually. I need to break through the conservative veneer of a fellow player and bombard him with hypotheticals about this. We never got to the point where there was enough space in the spotlight for the character's submissive-aggressive behavior to manifest well.

What makes one transsexual, I always used the distinction of someone being fully transitioned and with all the surgeries, but I have trouble finding people who can accurately separate the two. Compared to transgendered that is.

The difference is preference more than technicality. I suppose you could quibble that transsexual is concerned more with physical sex presentation but then you end up with two (relatively) identical people, one transsexual and one transgender, simply because of how they choose to focus on their apotheosis.

The clear key however is that if you ever tell someone what transsexual (vs transgender) means and they correct you, then – unless actual harm will come from actual misunderstanding – your response should just be "okay."

[golentan]

Welcome new folks!

[Kunie]

Welcome new folks!

Thanks for welcome, golentan. How are you doing?

Also, hey Siuis.

[Comrade]

Thank you, and a pleasure to meet you. I hope I'm not being too much of a dork, haha.

Ain't no such thing in this thread. At least, I hope not, for my own sake.

Hey look, a thread. Hi all! :)

Welcome!