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Thread: Erfworld 83, Page 77
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2007-10-25, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
How do we know that Gobwin Knob was the kingdom that Jillian was cost? Stanley "rubbed out the Milquetoast"; but he might not of done a very thorough job of it. This is Stanley we are speaking of.
Last edited by Justyn; 2007-10-25 at 05:22 PM.
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2007-10-25, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-25, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
You know, I think Stanley just saved Gobwin Knob. The element that Jillian hates (the great Tool) has now left the city, only leaving Wanda, who she loves. This might tip the scales and make the spell control Jillian again!
Also, that Foolamancer is awesome. Just proves that real wizards wear prupleLast edited by MrEdwardNigma; 2007-10-25 at 06:09 PM.
Avatar by the illustrious Dr. Bath.
The essence of a riddle is that it states facts by means of a combination of impossibilities~Aristoteles
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2007-10-25, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Parson does have a few advantages left.
1. A Thinkamancer. Thinkamancers presumably can provide instructions to units at range. Misty was probably more valuable, tactically, but this still shouldn't be overlooked.
2. Defenses. Even with everything gone to boop, the castle is still standing, and still one of the toughest places around. Ansom is still down heavily in turms of his siege.
3. Wanda. Assuming he can talk her out of her funk, Wanda is probably worth more than every other caster in the game put together. It's been stated again and again that she has overwhelming magical talent and extensive knowledge that she never puts to use. If Parson could convince her to use that somehow, she could make a significant difference. She could act as a Lookamancer for scouting, a Foolamancer for veiling, a... well, we don't actually know what the other 'mancers do. But she can do all of it. She just hasn't, until now.
4. A summoning spell. It's not compeletely clear it works like this (it could be one-shot, I guess), but in theory, Parson could just convince Wanda to use the summoning spell again and summon up more warlords. This is tricky, since it seems like it takes a lot out of her, and they don't have much time... but warlords are valuable (upgrading units to them takes "mucho shmuckero"). Pulling a hand of the best warlords and military geniuses in the universe out of thin air could turn anything around.
5. Ansom is off-balance. He doesn't know what to expect; things have been going the way he never would have expected them to, and he nearly got croaked last turn. He's also in love, which only makes you more powerful in the movies. Any of this could easily lead him to make a mistake.
6. Ansom is still poorly-informed. He doesn't know where Stanley actually is, he doesn't know where the dwagons actually are, he thinks that any of it could be veiled anywhere, and he's just seen Stanley's side use strategies he never would have expected. If Parson summons up a bunch of warlords, or convinces Wanda to bring out magic she hasn't used in combat before, or whatever, Ansom won't know about it until it hits him. He could make the mistake of being too careful, too, instead of too rash; after this near-disaster for his side, he could easily see veiled dwagons and deadly traps around every corner. After that last episode, when he comes up and sees an empty capital with no dwagons... he's going to think it's a trap. Which works to Parson's advantage, slightly, since it isn't.
Ansom's uprightness is his disadvantage here. No matter how evil he thinks Stanley is, he probably wouldn't be able to imagine anyone doing what Stanley just did, so he won't be able to take advantage of the situation as well as he could have.
7. If it does come out that Stanley is gone, Ansom's alliance could be in trouble. They signed on to get Stanley, not to capture a leaderless (but still nastily defended) capital for Jetstone; a lot of his allies would probably decide to go their seperate ways at that point. There would be a loss of purpose and intra-alliance disagreements among Ansom's side in general. Remember how many casualties were predicted in Ansom's charge? He planned to use all the Marbits as a feint. They might object to going through with that if all it accomplishes is winning Jetstone a city... All of this works to Parson's advantage.Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-10-25 at 07:18 PM.
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2007-10-25, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Stanley made one very serious blunder in this comic.
Besides choosing not to attack a weakened and potentially croakable group of his bitterest enemies who hold one of the very artifacts he's been questing for this entire time, the Tool is running, taking the Arkenhammer, the Foolamancer (King Lear reference FTW) and his best knights, and leaving the fortress under the command of:
a) A guy summoned from another world, who is ambivalent, at best, towards his cause, and who he threatened to disband on multiple occasions
b) An uber-Machiavellian caster who he just chewed out and who has an extremely close, if bizarre, relationship with one of the principal enemy commanders
c) Assorted other leaders who have no particular reason to like him.
Here's predicting Parson and Wanda, at least, defect to Ansom, even if not able to just surrender outright. They can always trade information on Stanley for asylum. Any way you slice it, I get the feeling that Parson is not going to just sit tamely in Gobwin Knob, fighting a war he already feels is lost to benefit the Tool. He's up to something.....
And whatever it is, it's bound to be good.Pax Vobiscum
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2007-10-25, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
*scratches head* I don't quite get this argument about 'what came first', art-wise. I was just saying what that picture reminded me of. All I was thinking of was that the comic holds a lot of pop culture references and homages, obscure and less so, and taking a stab at maybe placing one of them. I didn't even have any particular expectation of necessarily being right.
My Avatar is Vinnie Doombats from the Erfworld comic written by Rob Balder and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi.
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2007-10-25, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Given that Ansom has no lookamancers and relies upon scouts to see enemy units... not so sure about that. Ansom only knows enemies are there when his units move into enemy-controlled hexes; if it's not his turn, he's blind as to what's going on until there's a collision of his forces and Stanley's.
The Foolamancer's there, most likely, to hide Stanley when he can't move.
The Thinkamancer could probably still give orders. I think the Foolmancer creates illusions, and that was his function in the table, to make an illusion of the map for others to see. The Lookamancer looked and told the Foolamancer what to make and the Thinkamncer linked them and delivered the real time orders.
Right now, Parson's probably thinking up the best defenses... or a way to make sure he, Wanda and Sizemore aren't croaked on the Alliance's turn.Last edited by sihnfahl; 2007-10-25 at 07:58 PM.
May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2007-10-25, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
We don't know that Stanley is running. It is very possible that he is planning on attacking Ansom right now. The Foolamancer veiling trick might let him get some nasty sneak attack and has a max on how many units it will affect, hence the smaller formation than possible. Or Stanley might only have enough schmuckers to promote 3 of his knights to Warlords and only Warlords can mount dwagons.
Personally, I hope Stanley is heading into the field. I would love to see that nasty looking armored dwagon munch a self-righteous archon :)'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.
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2007-10-25, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
We've seen a gobwin riding a dwagon after being informed that Manpower was "Stanley's last warlord" (presumably the latter refers to living warlords, unless Wanda animated that entire lineup since then).
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2007-10-25, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Yeah, but that scene stands out for a few things. First, it's not just a gobwin, Wanda clearly implies that it's a henchman, and they might have special rules. Second, that scene is just flavor (or fluff if you prefer) and the gobwin might be obligated to dismount should combat begin. So, yes, a gobwin does ride a dwagon there, but I'm not convinced by it that rank-and-file infantry can ride dwagons tactically.
'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.
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2007-10-25, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
I'd just like to go off the current topic to mention how RIDICULOUS Stanley looks. xD
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2007-10-25, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-25, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-25, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Last edited by fendrin; 2007-10-25 at 09:32 PM.
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2007-10-25, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
What happened re: the Thinkamancer? There were three mages linked, were there not? Misty, the Fool, and the Thinkamancer.
What happened to him? Is he also dead?Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2007-10-25, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
The remaining mancer was last seen apparently bending down over Misty (it's hard to tell for sure; it's a wide view and the figures are small).
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2007-10-25, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-25, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-25, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Yes, I think that's it. Something was needed to outcool the combined coolness of Evel Kneivel and the Fonz in a world with no Chuck Norris.
And that is... KISS. Mounted on dwagons. Oh, and they're invisible. Team Jetstone will have to come up with coolness on the level of pirate ninjas or ninja pirates to beat that. Or Chuck Norris.
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2007-10-25, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-25, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
There's no way that Stanley's running.
We know that he only cares for his quest to gain all the Arkenpliers. The last thing his battlefield intel told him indicated that he had as good a shot as he'll ever have at getting them this turn, with the Alliance command wounded and stranded over a lake.
Why would he only take three KISS members for his "plan?" That speaks to a limitation of the Foolamancer; perhaps he can only veil a stack of 8? That could go two ways: Either the unveiled dwagons attack first, preoccupying the commanders so that Stanley has a clear and unchallenged shot at Ansom, or; Stanley attacks by surprise first, and then the unveiled dwagons appear to cover his retreat with the 'pliers. Both are just simple and cunning enough to fit Stanley's personality. Once Stanley has the 'pliers he has the option of fleeing immediately or going back to GK to pick up the rest of KISS and whatever else he wants (if he's going solo, he will want his own private army). What happens after that depends on whether he attunes to the Arkenpliers, and what powers they offer if he does.
If Stanley leaves GK promptly, as I think he will do, Parson "wins" by default, because GK isn't the target. Stanley is. The major variable is, what actions does he take to negotiate the terms of any interaction with the Alliance? Does he throw his all into a defense and hope to impress them enough that they recruit him as a warlord? Does he raise a white flag and let it be known that Stanley isn't here, don't hurt us?
There is foreshadowing that he will "shock and awe them, just standing on the city walls, commanding the fight." But then, given the context it could be so much hot air from Stanley.
It just occurred to me that Stanley fits the exact description of the 1st Edition D&D munchkin: with his artifact level weapon and his army of subdued dragons in tow, having cast Slay Ruler and Transfer Loyalty of Populace. Oh, and that outfit of his made me laugh out loud. Rock that chest hair, pipsqueak!
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2007-10-26, 12:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Wanda can "manage a number of magicks outside of Croakamancy, but [she has] no interest in them". Whereas Sizemore is "good at nothing outside [his] specialty. But [he does] love to study everything".
So, what would you assume would happen when you link the minds of:
- A caster that has phenominal magical power, but not very much knowledge;
- A caster that has average magical power, but a phenominal (by Erfworld standards) knowledge of magic;
- And a caster that we do not know anything about, but is likely average or above average.
And then done in such a way as to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.
I would say that they would be able to cast a gestalt spell that can either raise the croaked back to life, or able to create an uncroaked that still has an intact mind.
And this isn't an out of the blue thing:
Stanley, and to a lesser degree, Wanda herself have commented that Wanda is an amazing caster. And Parson and Sizemore himself (modestly) said that Sizemore has great knowledge in magic.
Sizemore also stated that "the joint mind [the linked casters] can cast spells that a single caster cannot comprehend".Last edited by Justyn; 2007-10-26 at 12:14 AM.
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2007-10-26, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
And four linked casters "can't even be done" (wink, wink). But with such exceptional casters, such a dire situation, and a mathamancy device with which to guesstimate the likelihoods of success, I can see them trying it. Parson is already thinking outside the rules--"Maybe he can't [disband me]"-- so I don't think it's out of the question.
I'd hate to imagine what Wanda could do with her power, Sizemore's knowledge, and the extra knowledge and talent of a third caster. There is always the weapon of mass reconciliation option, but I don't think they'll try that first.
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2007-10-26, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Um, I think you people are forgetting the costs of linking casters. Like, they lose their individuality. And tend to go mad or die when the link is broken. Out of the three people we've seen linked so far, one is dead and one appears to be insane (granted, he might have been insane to begin with.)
Still. Do you really think Parson is the sort of person who would order (or even ask) his friends to do something like that?
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2007-10-26, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Stanley's going on tour! [are the extra dragons 'roadies?']
... and he cribs two newscasters in saying goodbye!
Walter Cronkite
and
Edward R. MurrowLast edited by Fineous Orlon; 2007-10-26 at 01:41 AM.
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2007-10-26, 02:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Maybe, but who would be the fourth caster?
We only knew five casters in Stanley's employ. The three Eyemancers (Looka, Thinka, Foola), Croaka Wanda, and Dirta Sizemore. And now, Looka (Misty) is dead and Foola is gone withthe windStanley. Parson has only three mancers in his reach. Of these three, one is in a state of shock, one wants nothing more than hide in a hole and wait until he can surrender, and the last one Parson knows nothing about. Yeah, he could pull off a link, but it's going to take some work.
Parson himself is not a caster, even if he has a mathemancy device. It would be interesting if he tried to be linked with a mancer trio, so that he'd use Sizemore's knowledge with Wanda's power to his own end (the Thinkamancer's only role is to provide the link anyway), but I that doesn't seem likely.Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2007-10-26, 02:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Orc Girl Avatar by Yeril !
Irideen Yoannaell,woodelf ranger Into the Depths of the Earth (Dawnhorn) character sheet
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2007-10-26, 03:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
If he let Stanley go to his death, and then becomes the new ruler of Gobwin Knob, does that mean he becomes overlord through regicide, kinda?
Last edited by Gez; 2007-10-26 at 03:44 AM.
Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2007-10-26, 04:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
I'd rather say by doing Erfworld kinda favor!
Besides he is not letting Stanley going anywhere. Stanley just goes - try to stop him.
What happens to Parsons upkeep? If he becomes the ruler, does he have to pay for himself? Not likely, I'd expect the upkeep is 'frozen' as long as he is the one holding the key to the treasury - of course that could mean no more happy meals but so what? Bogroll made a walnut pigeon pie already, it shouldn't be a problem (eat Bogrolls meal and feed him his own pie, for example)Orc Girl Avatar by Yeril !
Irideen Yoannaell,woodelf ranger Into the Depths of the Earth (Dawnhorn) character sheet
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2007-10-26, 04:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 83, Page 77
Why is everyone saying, "Oh, well, that's it for Misty"? I don't think the Mancer Parson is carrying looks anything like her...in fact, it definitely looks like a man to me.