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2012-07-05, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
I've never heard of this...have you?
So I was looking at handbooks on the old brilliant gameologists forum, when I came across what I think is a race being mentioned. "Dvati". But when I tried to find out more, I couldn't find anything. So I decided to come over to this playground and ask: What in the nine hells is a Dvati?
Thanks in advance.Incarnum: VoP's best (and possibly only) friend.
Spoiler: Quotes and Fun Links
Formerly Lestroisrois. Shorten my new name however you wish; I've seen plenty.
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2012-07-05, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Its in the Dragon Magazine Compendium that's about all I got lol.
"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
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Epic threads with awesome revelations.
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2012-07-05, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
It's the classic "Twins that think like a singular person" thing. Dvati are twins, but you play both "creatures" as a single entity.
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2012-07-05, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- In an apartment
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Dvati are a race that was introduced in Dragon 271 and republished in the Dragon Compendium. They are a race of twins, where each pair shares a single soul. Logistically speaking they are very odd, as they can divide actions between them and they share a single life total.
If you feel like quoting something that I have said, you have my permission to use it. Unless it makes me look stupid.
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My Homebrew
Feel free to browse and comment on any of my Homebrew. I enjoy feedback.
Love my Avatar? Well, why not check out the comic that it came from?
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2012-07-05, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
I gather that the concept seems to be a bit broken as well.
"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
-Invader
Epic threads with awesome revelations.
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Awesome Avatar by Kymme!
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2012-07-05, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
They gain some interesting mechanics but also are a pain to play just from a mechanical stand point. Biggest issue being both twins share hp, ie divide it upon level up between each body. Thus they have the hp they should at their level just each body holds half of it. It's an odd race, but a good choice if you ever had a brother/sister idea and no other player to help make it.
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2012-07-05, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Can someone post a link to their stats, I can't find them anywhere.
"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
-Invader
Epic threads with awesome revelations.
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Awesome Avatar by Kymme!
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2012-07-05, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
http://blackmarches.wikidot.com/forum/t-228613/dvati
Has most of their stuff but take it with a grain of salt, from a wiki.
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2012-07-05, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
-Invader
Epic threads with awesome revelations.
Spoiler
Awesome Avatar by Kymme!
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2012-07-05, 07:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
If you want twin backstabbers, they can be fun. Spell casting can be a pain since both are required to cast on the same turn but since both can otherwise act independently that means you can make two full round attacks while flanking and sneak attack.
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2012-07-05, 07:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Nice!
Never heard about them before. I might add them to my Vampire Twins BBEG!
SpoilerThe Vampire Twin Sisters.
They pretend to be one and the same person, living in a big city as a lower/mid noble. I plan to be using them soon when my Players come to the "Big Town" to metropolis of my the current world. They/she is not the Main BBEG but almost. The 'real' BBEG is a Black Dragon; i know kind of lame, but there is a running joke about him in my group.
One of them hunts every so often (about every 10-20 days), while the other one is at a ball, big event, or something like that.
That way when the PCs see one of the sisters in the street biting someone, they suspect her. She will flee as soon as she can though, leaving the PCs to find where she is. When the PCs confront her 'she' has a perfect alibi, with dozens to hundreds of first-grade witnesses.
Equipment:
Ring of mind shielding (or custom item). Nothing that unusual for a wealthy noble. She is not willing to take it off, and the other nobles or the judges are unwilling to force her, as she has been seen by so many very credible sources when the crimes happen.
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2012-07-05, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Just remember that if one dies, they both do, and that even though she does get a yummy d12 due to being a vampire, she still only has half of the hit points earned on either body. Example, if your vampire has 24 hit points in total, then each body for the twins only has 12 hit points to it before it goes down. Though being a vampire negates this due to temp hitpoints coming into play readily.
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2012-07-05, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
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2012-07-05, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- Elsewhen
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
I remember reading their entry in the Dragon Compendium. They're definitely the worst spellcasting race ever, or the next thing to.
I hadn't considered the sneak attacking idea, that's a good strategy for them. They could even work as their own flankers.
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2012-07-05, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
You've missed out on the best class for them. Dragonfire adept. You get your class features doubled. Throw some templates on there and suddenly your HP isn't so low, you get free twin breath and a bunch of other nice stuff.
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2012-07-05, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
The biggest problem is that they divide Hit Points between the two twins. And if one dies you're pretty much done. So although you get 2 guys they're both pretty squishy. Would have been better if you did in fact share a health pool...
Blood~
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2012-07-06, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Location
- UNKNOWN
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
They are squishy but with the right build they can pack quite a punch. Plus it is a cool idea.
I am rel.
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2012-07-06, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Damage to each body is tracked individually. They share the same soul, not the same body.
They have a telepathic connection to each other, and can even communicate across different planes.
The "death" thing is somewhat manageable... if one dies, the other takes 1d4 Con and Wis damage and a -1 cumulative penalty on attacks/skills/saves each day, which at least gives you a short window to scrape up an emergency raise dead or whatnot.
The biggest headache with Dvati is getting your DM to agree on how they allocate their actions. On one of the old WotC message boards, someone asked Mike McArtor (editor for the Dragon Compendium) how their actions work, and he made a somewhat off-the-cuff ruling that they get one set of actions divided between the twins, so only one of them can take a standard action every round. Unfortunately, this contradicts the text in Dragon Compendium ("These two creatures move and act separately..."), renders most of their racial features pretty much useless (particularly the Echo Attack), and makes them nearly unplayable. This made me very sad inside.
So, I tracked Talon Dunning, the original creator of the Dvati, and asked him how he intended them to work. You can see his email responses here. Unfortunately, he doesn't give much of a clear answer, either. So you're kinda left with negotiating with your DM on what he thinks would be balanced, and then hashing it out via careful playtesting.Last edited by Darrin; 2012-07-06 at 06:53 AM.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2012-07-06, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Prime Material Plane
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
The sneak attack thing might not work. There Pair Link ability seems to replace normal flanking so it could be interpreted that they don't get normal flanking benefits.
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2012-07-06, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Theres a feat from Savage Species that lets you cast two spells around as a full round action if you have two heads (And many prereqs), I searched for *months* for a good race to throw this onto, and I currently believe that the Dvati are the best race for it. As a result, a well built Dvati wizard is actually a *very* solid possibility.
I dream of playing a Dvati Mystic Theurge where each head is one of the casters, and go from there.
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2012-07-06, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
An important consideration is that Dvati are great flanking companions, but not for each other.
flank
To be directly on the other side of a character who is being threatened by another character. A flanking attacker gains a +2 flanking bonus on attack rolls against the defender. A rogue can sneak attack a defender that she is flanking.
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2012-07-06, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2012-07-06, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
This race sounds like a good Share Pain/Vigor candidate. Any spell with 'personal' or 'you' is shared between the twins. Or would Share Pain cause an infinite loop instantly killing both twins? Would Share Pain have a double effect because each twin would get a copy and need to find a willing creature?
Here's a question, can each twin attack separately or do they have 1 set of actions between them?
It states:
A dvati character is actually two separate dvati
twins who share a soul. These two creatures move
and act separately but have a number of restrictions
based on their connection.
Casting a spell is noted as a restriction, both twins must focus to cast a spell. Manifesting a power is not listed as a restriction but I would assume that it would be as RAI.
Would Hustle give you 1 or 2 move actions?
This could get too fun.
Blood~Last edited by Bloodgruve; 2012-07-06 at 02:07 PM.
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2012-07-06, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
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2012-07-06, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
- Gender
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
That's contradicted by the rules. From Dragon Compendium:
"Echo Attack: By combining their voices into one maddening cacophony, a pair of dvati twins can confuse a creature they flank. If both twins speak as a move action while flanking an opponent, that creature must make a Will save."
If they can't flank, then they couldn't use echo attack, which would be a bit bizarre, giving them an ability they can never use.
Target for share pain is "you and one willing creature" or "two willing creatures". Since "you" encompasses both Dvati twins, they would have to pick one other creature other than themselves to share pain with them. How to allocate the HP damage would be a bit of a head-scratcher, though.
Each twin gets its own set of actions. Otherwise echo attack would be nearly impossible to use, and the prohibition on spellcasting wouldn't make any sense at all: if the pair only gets one standard action, then it would be impossible for the other twin to attack or do anything else but move while the other one was spellcasting. The text even says: "One twin cannot cast a spell while the other attacks, for example." Presumably, if neither twin is casting a spell, they would both be able to attack.
Magic/psionic transparency is the default, so activating a psionic power would be treated the same as casting a spell. Both twins would have to concentrate.
Range: Personal, so both twins would get the benefit.Last edited by Darrin; 2012-07-06 at 02:11 PM.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2012-07-06, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
No, Animal companions and such are characters, separate non-player characters. The Dvati, while clearly meant to flank each other, are considered a single character and a character can not flank with himself.... Well barring certain awesome feat chains/prestige classes.
I would definitely read it as intended as opposed to RAW, so I would allow them to flank, assuming I am DMing.
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2012-07-06, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Speaking of Animal Companions, what would happen if a Dvati character were to take level's in Druid, in respects to the Animal Companion? Would it, for example, be one animal, or maybe the same as the Dvati of 2 with half the hp? What do you think, Playground?
Incarnum: VoP's best (and possibly only) friend.
Spoiler: Quotes and Fun Links
Formerly Lestroisrois. Shorten my new name however you wish; I've seen plenty.
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2012-07-06, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
Aren't they the Wind Dukes from Greyhawk?
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2012-07-06, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Look behind you.
- Gender
Currently running the Heroes of Circumstance campaign!
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Credit for my awesome avatar goes to the amazing Ceika.
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2012-07-06, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: I've never heard of this...have you?
I don't see why you think there's a contradiction. The Dvati are perfectly capable of flanking, and they're good at it. They just can't do so alone. The Dvati flank just as any other characters do: with the assistance of another character. You can't flank by yourself if you're playing another type of character, and you can't flank by yourself if you're playing a Dvati character. Also, while at least 2 characters are required for flanking, more than 2 can also flank.