Estimate the LA of this Hillariously Bad Custom Race

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Don't ask where this came from:

Pipsqueek characters possess the following racial traits.

* Fey
* -5 natural armor penalty. (All additions stack until this is positive)

* +4 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma

* Diminutive size. +4 bonus to Armor Class, +4 bonus on attack rolls, +12 bonus on Hide checks, -12 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits a quarter that of Medium characters.

* Space/Reach: 0 feet/0 feet.
* Base land speed is 5 feet.

* Racial Hit Dice: A pipsqueek gains equal levels of fey when it gains class levels or LA. A pipsqueek's racial hit dice do not become the appropriate type because of type changes.

* Racial Skills: A pipsqueek ’s fey levels' have no class skills and gain 0+int skill points for racial hit dice. A pipsqueek has a -12 racial penalty on all skills and ranged attacks.

* Spellcasting inability: A pipsqueek cannot cast magic of any kind (infusions, shadow arcane or divine spells). It cannot take magic, psionic, pact magic, initiator, or incarnum classes. Non-spell completion magic, shadow magic, psionic items, and pact magic items function normally. This inability cannot be removed by any means, even a wish spell.

* Spell Resistance: 20 + HD + class levels. This affect cannot be suppressed or lowered. Whenever a spell overcomes the resistance, the pipsqueek becomes dazed.

* Spell-like abilities: Maddening Scream (continuous effect, self-only, no save, not [mind-affecting])

* Automatic Languages: none. Bonus Languages: none.
* Favored Class: none.
* Level adjustment: ?

So what kind of level adjustment should this stupidity really have? Its tons worse than any LA+0 race.

Its way worse than Incarnate construct so I'd start the bidding at atleast -4LA. Do I hear a "-5LA"?

edit: And no "LA: -" pansy answers. Give me a number!

[magic9mushroom]

Don't ask where this came from:

Pipsqueek characters possess the following racial traits.

So what kind of level adjustment should this stupidity really have? Its tons worse than any LA+0 race.

Its way worse than Incarnate construct so I'd start the bidding at atleast -4LA. Do I hear a "-5LA"?
_

-Infinity. It can't take actions.

[Eldariel]

How do the Bonus Racial HDs act with experience? Do you automatically gain two levels when it level-ups or what? Also, how the hell did Initiators end up in the "No"-list? O.o

Basically, he has no AC and effectively no skill points, along with no magic. Oh, and it can't act. Seems like a great race for a Barbarian or a Wildshape Ranger as a Dragonborn of Bahamut! Owait, he'd make a great Crusader, Swordsage, Psi War, Ardent, Cleric and few others too! Dragonborn Pipsqueeks (why is it Pipsqueek, not Pipsqueak, btw?) FTW.


Anyways, LA? About LA -100 and additional -1 per 2 HD or so.

[Grumman]

LA: Get out of my sight, and don't come back until you've got a proper idea for a character.

[Iceforge]

I would take this race with a starting LA of -4

Hell, if we was starting at level 4 or higher, I would take this at LA 0.

In a higher level game, like level 10 or so, this thing becomes insanely powerfull.

It has the mechanical error of starting unbeliveably weak, but it scales up extremely quickly and surpasses most of other races.

Lets demonstrate with what it gains in addition to a level 20 build assuming a LA of +0:

First it gets the advantages of getting a level of fey each time it gains a level, so thats 20HD of fey:

20D6 hit points = 70 average hit dice
6 feats from racial HD, as I assume the standard 1 besides pr. 3 HD cancels out the automatic one from level 1.
SR 45 (25 + 20HD, this increases to SR 65 the moment we include the class levels, or technically 85 if you count the class levels as both HD and class levels)
+10 attack bonus from race
+12 to Reflex and Will Saves

Then you just build it to increase the speed, equip it to increase reach, make it a depend on sneaking (sneak attack with +12 to hide from size is neat, except the racial -12 to all skills, so they cancel each other out)

So a very small little bastard with basicly magic immunity, good saves, good hit bonus and lots of HP; seems quite powerfull to me.

Hell, even with monk as the class, this becomes powerfull.

[magic9mushroom]

I would take this race with a starting LA of -4

Hell, if we was starting at level 4 or higher, I would take this at LA 0.

In a higher level game, like level 10 or so, this thing becomes insanely powerfull.

It has the mechanical error of starting unbeliveably weak, but it scales up extremely quickly and surpasses most of other races.

Lets demonstrate with what it gains in addition to a level 20 build assuming a LA of +0:

First it gets the advantages of getting a level of fey each time it gains a level, so thats 20HD of fey:

20D6 hit points = 70 average hit dice
6 feats from racial HD, as I assume the standard 1 besides pr. 3 HD cancels out the automatic one from level 1.
SR 45 (25 + 20HD, this increases to SR 65 the moment we include the class levels, or technically 85 if you count the class levels as both HD and class levels)
+10 attack bonus from race
+12 to Reflex and Will Saves

Then you just build it to increase the speed, equip it to increase reach, make it a depend on sneaking (sneak attack with +12 to hide from size is neat, except the racial -12 to all skills, so they cancel each other out)

So a very small little bastard with basicly magic immunity, good saves, good hit bonus and lots of HP; seems quite powerfull to me.

Hell, even with monk as the class, this becomes powerfull.

It also CANNOT TAKE ACTIONS and those RHD count towards ECL.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Where are people getting that it can't take actions?

[Temotei]

Where are people getting that it can't take actions?

Yeah.

It's impossible to use this race to any effect. They'd be dead in a day or two, tops, based on their traits. Of course, the spell resistance stops the spell sometimes, since it's so randomly high.

[magic9mushroom]

Yeah.

It's impossible to use this race to any effect. They'd be dead in a day or two, tops, based on their traits. Of course, the spell resistance stops the spell sometimes, since it's so randomly high.

It's a continuous effect. So no SR stopping it.

[Starbuck_II]

So what kind of level adjustment should this stupidity really have? Its tons worse than any LA+0 race.

Its way worse than Incarnate construct so I'd start the bidding at atleast -4LA. Do I hear a "-5LA"?
_

Wait, if it gains a class level it gains an additional racial HD free?
Plus what is with Maddening Scream?

[AstralFire]

If you give it some sort of item of anti-magic, then I guess it would -kind of- go okay as a monk? Maybe? An extra 10 BAB would work out okay.

[Starbuck_II]

Is the SR Extraordinary or supernatural (it can be both but not usually EX)?

Plus, why would a god or nature create an actionless creature?

[Arakune]

Chaos shuffle + reincarnation = hum...

There is a way to make it work? Anyway, for me it have LA -

[Eldan]

Chaos Shuffle+Reincarnation still only means that it has three feats more from it's 10 fey HD. Nice, but rarely gamebreaking.

[Iceforge]

It also CANNOT TAKE ACTIONS and those RHD count towards ECL.

Ah, sorry, I sort of missed what Maddening Screams did, and assuming that you are allowed to build you character, as if you had leveled it through play (thats my standard rule when I allow players to make a character), someone who is building a level 20 character, should have 20 class levels and 20 RHD with that build.

My mission, if I had to build a level 20 with that build now, would be to make the mad uncontrolable crazy minded tiny thing that runs around, but cannot be hurt or stopped.

With the SR already in place, it should be fairly easy to shop around to various other things and make something close to impossible to kill

If you can add more LA things to do, a Pipsqueek / fiendish troll (not half-fiend and troll, but fiendish troll) would be something quite hard to kill, once you add fast healing 1 to the mixture.

High SR, Good Saves, Regeneration 5, Fire/Cold Resistance 10, Damage Reduction 10/magic, Fast Healing 1.

The Regeneration/Fast Healing combo is awesome, as any non-lethal damage is healed each round, which means all but fire and acid damage.

Normal Fire damage is almost completely blocked.
Normal Acid damage is blocked a lot by Damage Reduction 10/magic
Magical Fire Damage is still blocked a bit by the Resistance and a lot by the SR
Magical Acid damage would be the way to go, but it still needs to bypass the SR

[DragoonWraith]

leveled it through play [...] should have 20 class levels and 20 RHD with that build.

No. You start as a Class 1/Fey 1, you are ECL 2, you need 6000 XP to level up to 3. You do so, you get Class 2/Fey 2, and are ECL 4, and need 15000 XP to level up to 5.

Technically, they'd be Class 10/Fey 10 at the same time everyone else his Class 19, so ahead one ECL, but they wouldn't get Class 11/Fey 11 until they had enough XP to hit ECL 21.

[Iceforge]

No. You start as a Class 1/Fey 1, you are ECL 2, you need 6000 XP to level up to 3. You do so, you get Class 2/Fey 2, and are ECL 4, and need 15000 XP to level up to 5.

Technically, they'd be Class 10/Fey 10 at the same time everyone else his Class 19, so ahead one ECL, but they wouldn't get Class 11/Fey 11 until they had enough XP to hit ECL 21.

Ah well, then you can still go with the whole stragedy from above through, as you then just need instead of gaining fast healing from a class thing, to gain the same effect in some easier way, like sacrificing some XP to gain a permanent magical effect on yourself which magically heals you one hit point pr. round, which can also be done through WBL I guess.

[Starbuck_II]

No. You start as a Class 1/Fey 1, you are ECL 2, you need 6000 XP to level up to 3. You do so, you get Class 2/Fey 2, and are ECL 4, and need 15000 XP to level up to 5.

Technically, they'd be Class 10/Fey 10 at the same time everyone else his Class 19, so ahead one ECL, but they wouldn't get Class 11/Fey 11 until they had enough XP to hit ECL 21.

No, I read it as a free level not an additional level.

[Aharon]

Maddening Scream is living targets only, so wouldn't it cease if you became undead?

Can you use the Restoration Trick mentioned in the Jakeverse-Thread on the fey-levels to trade them in for something useful? If so, would you then gain a fey-level corresponding to your new classlevel?

[Lysander]

This is awful for a player character, but awesome for an npc village. Imagine the PCs entering a magical forest filled with little creatures that just run around screaming all day. They could be begrudgingly cared for by other fey creatures who force feed them so they don't starve to death.

[UglyPanda]

Maddening Scream doesn't have a caster level listed.

It's got an LA of "I will burn your ****ing sheet if you play this". I'm guessing this was some sort of inside joke concerning a short girl who is disconcertingly strong for her size but still very weak overall.

Even if you ignore the Maddening Scream thing somehow, the thing automatically gains useless RHD, which become extra useless due to its special ability. The only way it's playable is to become a different race entirely, which completely negates the point of playing it in the first place.

[Eloel]

ZOMG Dragonborn Pipsqueak?

You're now a diminutive creature with +4 Str, +6 Con, -6 Dex, -4 Int/Cha, and possibly Wings (you don't want to walk around as a diminutive creature - trust me)

You can even go caster if you feel like it, but why would you? Just grab Titan Bloodline and LOL away.
Or you can go Dragonfire Adept for hilarious breathing scenes.

[Akal Saris]

Here's an idea:

1. Start your character in-game. Be whatever you want - I'll suggest barbarian. Let's assume ECL 10 and an LA of -4 - so you're a barbarian 7/fey 7. Add on some templates - let's make you a venerable fey-blooded unseelie fey aquatic pipsqueak. That brings your con and str to around 1 and raises your int and cha to about +1 total, as well as some other random stuff.
2. Get bitten by a vampire and become a vampire. This probably requires your party to arrange it, since you'll be running around screaming a lot. Maybe have undead leadership for a vampire cohort.
3. Now you're undead, so you're immune to your racial madness (it only affects living creatures). Everyone nearby breathes a sigh of relief. Also, aquatic means you have no aversion to water as a vampire, and a swim speed to boot - not breathing air is OK, because you don't breathe as a vampire.
4. You've got +8 LA from vampire, so you gain 8 RHD of fey as per the weird rules of this template. Now you're a barbarian 7/fey 15 in an ECL 10 game. That's BAB +17 right there.
5. Your vampiric powers are all (Ex) and (Su), neither of which are blocked by your racial aversion to magic. So you have dominate, energy slapping, etc.
6. You gain +7 NA, leaving you with +2 total.
7. You keep your SR.
8. You can alternate shape into a dire wolf at will, ditching your horrible diminutive body. Never return to it.
9. Dance around and pretend you were never a pipsqueak, abusing your ridiculous vampirism. Sure you'll never level again, but you already have more HD than anyone else for the next 12 levels, so who cares?

Here's a second idea:

Be a dragonborn pipsqueak. Dragonborn removes all racial abilities except for your ability modifiers. SO it removes the racial madness and aversion to magic - so you'd have just those stats (and +2 Con/-2 Dex from Dragonborn) and then whatever ridiculous negative LA for extra class levels to abuse.

Then take levels in druid, and wildshape into something that isn't diminutive. Do a little happy dance for Bahamut!

Edit: damn, ninja'd while working on the vampire part!

[ericgrau]

Find a way around the maddening scream and you're in business. A little coin on potions deals with the SR. Tumble to deal with AoO's from no reach. What's left are some rather impressive plusses. The +6 to hit overcomes the fey BAB all the way to level 20, and gives a huge bonus earlier than that. The con effectively turns those fey d6's into d14's, if we count the HP gained on non fey levels. And he effectively has spell immunity which, while possible to overcome, is not commonly overcome by monsters. Size bonuses to AC cancels natural armor penalty.

[jindra34]

High grade anti-magic cuffs take care of the spell-like ability drawback. And because you cannot use magic already they pretty much have no drawbacks, and add the fact that you cannot be affected by spells other than conjuration:instantaneous. At that point the race might become effective based on how the whole extra hit-dice of fey work. In all honesty this race should however have LA- as no player can play it without abuse and even if it had an LA0 it would become stupid with abuse (As seen above).

[Lysander]

Actually, this maddening scream would still work on an undead creature. It's magical but unlike the normal scream this is listed as NOT mind-affecting. That means an undead pipsqueek would still be subject to it.

[Aharon]

@Lysander
No, Maddening Scream specifically targets living creatures.

[Defiant]

I'd give it LA +5.

Because WOTC has no idea how much LA a race should have and always puts way more than is necessary. Why should we do any different?

[magic9mushroom]

I'd give it LA +5.

Because WOTC has no idea how much LA a race should have and always puts way more than is necessary. Why should we do any different?

The mohrg is my favourite there.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Here's an idea:

4. You've got +8 LA from vampire, so you gain 8 RHD of fey as per the weird rules of this template. Now you're a barbarian 7/fey 15 in an ECL 10 game. That's BAB +17 right there.

Technically 14 of those Fey RHD put you into epic level (with an ECL of 30 ?!?!?!), which makes you the saddest epic level character in existence.