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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Is there a list of these somewhere? I'll compile what I know about here.

    Combat Expertise
    Wolf Berserker (UE, for Improved Trip only)

    Combat Reflexes
    Evasive Reflexes (ToB)

    Dodge
    Midnight Dodge (MoI)
    Expeditious Dodge (RotW)
    Desert Wind Dodge (ToB)

    Endurance
    Kobold Endurance (RotD)

    Power Attack
    Stone Power (ToB)

    Psionic Meditation
    Instant Clarity (ToB)

    Toughness
    Azure Toughness (MoI)

    Weapon Finesse
    Shadow Blade (ToB)

    Weapon Focus
    Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU, hand crossbow only)

    Planar Touchstone is a special case: you can use it to acquire feats that you don't meet the prerequisites for. Here are feats that can be acquired with it by selecting Catalogues of Enlightenment:
    Craft (PGtF): Skill Focus (Craft)
    Darkness (FR): Blind-Fighting
    Domination (CDiv): Spell Focus (Enchantment)
    Dragon Below (ECS): Augment Summoning
    Drow (PGtF): Lightning Reflexes
    Dwarf (PGtF): Great Fortitude
    Elf (PGtF): Point-Blank Shot
    Planning (CWar): Extend Spell
    Portal (Und): Portal Sensitive
    Rune (PGtF): Scribe Scroll
    Shadow (ECS): Blind-Fighting
    Time (PGtF): Improved Initiative
    Undeath (PGtF): Extra Turning
    War (PHB): Martial/Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2011-11-16 at 11:02 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    IdleMuse's Avatar

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Kobold Endurance, from Races of the Dragon. Niche, but I think it's relevant enough to put on this list, given it's not exactly huge!
    "Hex grids are the way forward! And slighty to the side..." - Studoku

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Cool. Added.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    I think that may be all of them; I used to have a similar list lying around somewhere.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Does Planar Touchstone count? If you take the War Domain power, you can get a two-for-one deal: Martial/Exotic Weapon Proficiency + Weapon Focus. This list has a list of most of the exotic favored weapons in 3.x.

    (You can also use Planar Touchstone to grab Augment Summoning via the Dragon Below domain without taking Spell Focus: Conjuration.)

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Improved Weapon Familiarity
    Exotic Weapon Proficiency
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


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    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Improved Weapon Familiarity
    Exotic Weapon Proficiency
    Does not work the same - a character with Improved Weapon Familiarity cannot qualify for anything that requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency, such as Master of Arms, Spellrazor or Sting Strike, unless they are explicitly allowed to (such as for Exotic Weapon Master).
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2011-11-16 at 09:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Versatile Combatant (DotU 53) counts as Two-Weapon Fighting within a limited context, although not for meeting prerequisites.
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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    It's not explicit, but Wolf Berserker is a feat you can take instead of Combat Expertise to qualify for Improved Trip. It doesn't require a high Int score, and actually gives you a bonus you might use, so it's pretty practical.
    Last edited by Ernir; 2011-11-16 at 10:00 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Updated the list.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Does Planar Touchstone count? If you take the War Domain power, you can get a two-for-one deal: Martial/Exotic Weapon Proficiency + Weapon Focus.
    That's an error. War will grant Martial Weapon Proficiency, but never Exotic. Perhaps you're thinking of the Favored Soul's class ability, which will grant either for the deity's weapon.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    That's an error. War will grant Martial Weapon Proficiency, but never Exotic. Perhaps you're thinking of the Favored Soul's class ability, which will grant either for the deity's weapon.
    See, that view is rather silly, unless you're suggesting I can have "Martial Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)."
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    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.


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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    See, that view is rather silly, unless you're suggesting I can have "Martial Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)."
    No, in that case the domain gives you only Weapon Focus (spiked chain), which won't be active unless you have spiked chain proficiency.

    It's "Free Martial Weapon Proficiency with deity’s favored weapon (if necessary)", and Martial Weapon Proficiency (exotic weapon) is never necessary.

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    That's an error. War will grant Martial Weapon Proficiency, but never Exotic. Perhaps you're thinking of the Favored Soul's class ability, which will grant either for the deity's weapon.
    I've looked at the RAW on this, and you're absolutely right. I think this is more of an oversight that when the War Domain was written, there weren't any deities that used exotic weapons as their favored weapons (except for Blipdilbloop, but "pincher staff" builds haven't exactly been burning up the CharOp boards).

    After Living Greyhawk and particularly Forgotten Realms introduced a plethora of deities with exotic favored weapons, then the War Domain should probably have been updated (I wasn't able to find a Custserv or Sage ruling on this, although the Living Greyhawk Deities 2.0 document comes closest but doesn't actually say what happens with the War domain and exotics).

    However, I think most DMs will handwave this issue as RAI.

    For those of you looking to pick up EWP/WF: Spiked Chain this way:

    Kossuth (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting p. 234)
    Tsolorandril (Living Greyhawk Deities v2.0 p. 171)
    Zoser (Sandstorm p. 45)

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    This seems relevant to your interests.
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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Improved Weapon Familiarity
    Exotic Weapon Proficiency
    Does not work the same - a character with Improved Weapon Familiarity cannot qualify for anything that requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency, such as Master of Arms, Spellrazor or Sting Strike, unless they are explicitly allowed to (such as for Exotic Weapon Master).
    Weapon Proficiencies are feats.
    IWF grants you (usually several) Proficiencies with Exotic Weapons.
    Say you were playing a Dwarf Rogue, with IWF, you could then qualify for Suel Arcanamach, or Exotic Weapon Master, for example.
    Granted there are examples where this doesn't hold - but then there are several where it does.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Weapon Proficiencies are feats.
    IWF grants you (usually several) Proficiencies with Exotic Weapons.
    Say you were playing a Dwarf Rogue, with IWF, you could then qualify for Suel Arcanamach, or Exotic Weapon Master, for example.
    Granted there are examples where this doesn't hold - but then there are several where it does.
    But you don't get Exotic Weapon Proficiency. You only treat the Exotic Weapons as Martial ones. Whenever this works it is explicitly stated as an exception to how it would normally function. Compare Elf (you get the feats for rapier and such) to Dwarf (a Dwarven Wizard still suffers nonproficiency for a Dwarven War Axe).
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2011-11-17 at 09:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Came across another one today; not going to be very important, but mention it for completeness: Valenar Trample (PGtE 141) counts as Trample (that most prolific pre-req feat), and is pretty much strictly better if you're an Elf from Valenar.

    EDIT: In the same book, p20, is the far more useful Aereni Focus which duplicates Skill Focus for an elf while also adding it as a class skill.
    Last edited by IdleMuse; 2011-12-04 at 10:18 AM.
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    Default Re: Feats That Count As Other Feats

    Centaur Trample counts as well, trample. From

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