Astral Deva Life Span

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Tried the Q&A thread but was passed up. I was wondering what the lifespan of an Astral Deva is, and for that matter, where I might find the lifespans of other outsiders as well. Some age category information would also help.

[Kaww]

From what I know/recall time doesn't flow in the same way in every plane. That might be the reason why you have seemingly immortal (no aging aka timeless body/perfect self) angels/demons/devils or they just might be creatures that don't have age limit. Dragons are funny in that way... They wary from book to book.

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Well I'm playing an Astral Deva as a PC from savage species. My DM says he's a native outsider and that he's not immortal, but doesn't have any answers for me beyond that. I'm trying to figure out where his age categories lie ect. and what books might have that kind of info.

[arguskos]

Well I'm playing an Astral Deva as a PC from savage species. My DM says he's a native outsider and that he's not immortal, but doesn't have any answers for me beyond that. I'm trying to figure out where his age categories lie ect. and what books might have that kind of info.

None. This has never been expanded upon. Even my 2e Monstrous Compendium from Planescape doesn't explain this.

My gut says that Astral Devas are immortal, as Outsiders. As Native Outsiders, I'd guess they have absurdly long lifespans, longer than elves probably.

[Eldan]

Why is he a native outsider? They certainly aren't, as far as I know. I mean, they even come from the outer planes and the astral.

[Snake-Aes]

Isn't the Native subtype given to the outsider that is in its home plane? This way a Devil would be native in Cania and the like.

[Starbuck_II]

Tried the Q&A thread but was passed up. I was wondering what the lifespan of an Astral Deva is, and for that matter, where I might find the lifespans of other outsiders as well. Some age category information would also help.

Um, SRD says Astral Devas are normal extraplanar and not native to Material plane.
I'd ask "What?!" if told that it was Native.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm

Savage Species versions are still Extraplanar (follow all rules of Monster manual version).

Astral devas are immortal as they are outsiders (not Native outsiders).

[AslanCross]

Astral Devas, like all outsiders, are embodiments of the principles of the multiverse. They're immortal.

[Zaydos]

As has been stated before Astral Devas are extraplanar outsiders (they are native on a certain Upper Plane, but D&D cosmology is Prime centric and it only matters if you're native their) and therefore immortal. If your DM is houseruling that they're native outsiders then he'll have to decide their lifespan himself.

[Marnath]

As long as we're just making up numbers, let me try to suggest a set. Maturity at 45, middle age 350, old 500 venerable at 650 and max age like 800 or something.

[mucat]

I would say Outsiders don't die (unless destroyed), but also don't last forever. A Celestial, after centuries or millennia of existence, will eventually transcend its form and merge again with its native plane. It doesn't "die", exactly; it simply no longer sees the need for an identity separate from the plane.

Similarly, as a Lawful outsider evolves toward perfect harmony with its plane, or a Chaotic toward perfect randomness, their individual identities would eventually fade away.

Infernals live more violent and strife-filled existences, and might never live long enough to find out what their ultimate lifespan woud have been.

I don't have a source for any of this; just putting out ideas about how I would treat the issue in my own campaigns.

[KillianHawkeye]

Native doesn't mean what you guys think it means. It's not the opposite of Extraplanar. It means the the Outsider is a creature of the Material Plane and, as such, has to deal with eating, sleeping, and mortality like other Material Plane creatures. Examples include tieflings, aasimars, and rakshasas.

A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

An Astral Deva is not a <Native> Outsider. It's home plane can be any Good-aligned plane. While on its home plane, it loses the <Extraplanar> subtype, meaning it cannot be banished. Humanoids and other Material Plane creatures gain the <Extraplanar> subtype when travelling to different planes and can be banished back to the Material Plane.

[Thurbane]

It sounds like his DM has houseruled that the playable version of the Deva is a Native Outsider...

[KillianHawkeye]

It sounds like his DM has houseruled that the playable version of the Deva is a Native Outsider...

Or else he is just making a mistake.

[Yuki Akuma]

Isn't the Native subtype given to the outsider that is in its home plane? This way a Devil would be native in Cania and the like.

No. Why is this such a common misconception?! It's completely untrue.

Native is a subtype you're born with. You can't lose it. It'd be like a Drow losing his Elf subtype!

[LOTRfan]

Okay, here is the best way I can explain the native subtype: Yuki_Akuma is correct in that you don't gain/lose the subtype depending on the plane you are on.

Normal outsiders are creatures with the essence of a plane other than the Material Plane. Native Outsiders are outsiders that have been tainted by the Material Plane (and as such are not composed of the essence of another plane).

So, an Astral Deva on the Material Plane has the (Extraplanar) subtype, but he wouldn't gain the (Native) subtype when on his home plane. A Tiefling, however has the (Native) subtype on the Material Plane, and on an upper plane he would have the (Extraplanar, Native) subtypes.

[Thurbane]

Or else he is just making a mistake.

That's certainly a possibility, but I suspect it's more likely to be a case of house ruling.

[Yuki Akuma]

And just to confuse things even more, there are Outsiders who are native to the Material Plane (that is, on the Material they don't have the Extraplanar subtype) who aren't Native Outsiders.

Although the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Fhlr Flyrhaargn a god, so take that as you will.

[LOTRfan]

There are?

Wow, WoTC had a hard time keeping track of everything, huh?

Oh, also, not all creatures from other planes are outsiders/elementals. Which I guess makes sense, but must really ruin the concept of an afterlife for them.

"So, we live here, yearning for a better place, and when we die, we end up right back here?"

[Kaww]

"So, we live here, yearning for a better place, and when we die, we end up right back here?"

Well, life is a bitch... Why should afterlife be any different? Imagine family bbqs, man that's crowded.

[Amiel]

Outsiders aren't actually explicitly referred to as being immortal; the implication, thus, is that they may well be nigh immortal, living long years and remain unaging.
If however, you subscribe to the notion that astral devas, as angels, represent an embodiment of Good, they should be spirits and should, in fact, be immortal.

The SRD also makes pains to state that outsiders breathe; which may confuse the issue further.

[Dark_Juggernaut]

In reference to my DM making my Astral Deva a native outsider, my character's storyline is he was kicked out of his home plane by his god (in this case Ilmater) to learn an unknown lesson or perform an unknown purpose. In doing so he was made a native outsider on the material plane in the process.

[Maryring]

But since he is houseruling this, he needs to be the one to decide your aging rules.

Since when did aging rules matter except in trying to twink out an ancient wizard anyway? Adventures rarely last long enough that adventurers age, less so practically immortal ones like elves and outsiders.

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Well, that makes sense. I just wanted to find a baseline for him to go off of, and I was curious because it seems they never really bothered to address the matter.

[Maryring]

I've always played it that outsiders are effectively immortal. They do not age at all, because they're made from spirit only. If you really want some numbers though, consider that some outsiders have been around practically since the beginning of time, so when an elf is old, an outsider, even a native one, should still be relatively young.

[Snake-Aes]

Do you really really REEEEAAAAAA~AAALLY want to give them an agespan? Pick any dragon.

[hamishspence]

Among native outsiders, tieflings and aasimar have aging tables in Races of Destiny- and their age categories aren't that much longer than those of humans.

So there's not much suggesting native outsiders are particularly long lived.

As for extraplanar outsiders, I'm not sure- did neraphim in Planar Handbook have aging tables, the outsider type, and the extraplanar type- and if so, were they particularly long lived?

[KillianHawkeye]

did neraphim in Planar Handbook have aging tables, the outsider type, and the extraplanar type- and if so, were they particularly long lived?

According to Planar Handbook, Neraph are Outsiders whose home plane is Limbo. They gain the Extraplanar subtype when not on that plane. Their maximum age is 250 + 2d% years.

[hamishspence]

So that's an example of an outsider not native to the Material plane, with a finite lifespan.

This might be a case of it being a "planar race" rather than a reincarnated mortal though.

Outsiders that are traditionally made from mortal souls (lantern archons, manes, and so on) might not have the same finite lifespan.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think it's really more a case of "anybody cool enough to get a name is probably immortal." On the one hand, you've got guys like Asmodeus and Demogorgon who are unique creatures that have managed to live long enough to amass ridiculous amounts of power, and on the other hand you have guys like Pit Fiend #37956 who will probaby get killed before he reaches old age and just get replaced by the next one in line anyway. Of course, Pit Fiend #37956 will probably get reincarnated somewhere down the line, so in a sense he's already immortal (unless slain on his home plane), so it could be a case of "how immortal are they?"