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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lex-kat
So my question for you is: What am I? Transgendered, Transsexual, just a Cross-Dresser?
Well, you are not a label :smallwink: and really only you can decide who and what you are. But if you are confused (well more confused, I mean everyone is confused) and trying to figure it all out, have you talked to a psychologist? A good one can be really helpful with trying to understand yourself better.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lex-kat
So my question for you is: What am I? Transgendered, Transsexual, just a Cross-Dresser?
What're you askin' me for? :smallwink:
Seriously though, it's something you should be pondering yourself. If you've always felt uncomfortable or out of place as a male, like you've been born in the wrong body, you might be transgendered. If you could change genders, permanently and without looking back, would you? And as far as the gender that you're attracted to, that doesn't really dictate your own gender, I don't think. There's a difference between being a gay male and a straight MtF and there's a difference between being a straight male and a lesbian MtF.
Anyway, I'm not an expert on the subject, not by far, but I suggest you seek out someone who is. Talk to a psychologist, get a few things off your chest and see where you end up.
Best of luck to you.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Actually, while I was driving around hunting for food, I thought about my own question. And realized that it was very ridiculous.
I AM Lex-Kat (Bobbie to my friends). I would label myself Transsexual because I feel that I am a woman inside. I would change it, but I'll wait until they have perfected it so that a MtF can have babies just like a born Female.
Also, to all those who want to buy skirts & dresses, I suggest walking in with confidence, just as if you actually are buying these items for someone else, and buy them. Most clerks won't care or even wonder unless it's something a bit more intimate (underwear). Even then, they don't say anything to you aloud. At least they've never said anything to me.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lex-kat
Actually, while I was driving around hunting for food, I thought about my own question. And realized that it was very ridiculous.
I AM Lex-Kat (Bobbie to my friends). I would label myself Transsexual because I feel that I am a woman inside. I would change it, but I'll wait until they have perfected it so that a MtF can have babies just like a born Female.
Well, it's great that you've decided for yourself. We could use more girls on the internet. :smallwink:
As far as pregnancy is concerned, there's a procedure or two out there that I know of but you should probably ask SMEE. She knows way more about that sort of thing.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Catch
As far as pregnancy is concerned, there's a procedure or two out there that I know of but you should probably ask SMEE. She knows way more about that sort of thing.
They've advanced it that far? :smallconfused:
I suppose I did less research than I thought...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Snopes claims it a hoax site.
Wikipedia gives some speculation on the subject, but says nothing definite yet.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Lex-Kat: Thank you for sharing your story. You've been through a lot (and hugs for that :smallsmile: ), so it's inspiring to see you here sharing it with us.
As far as pregnancy is concerned, I know that MtF transsexuals can donate sperm prior to transitioning so they can have a child with their own genetic material, but I'm not familiar with even an experimental procedure that would allow one to actually give birth... does anyone else know anything about this?
edit: Well, I'll be darned...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
There have been experimental procedures to implant a compatible womb in rats.
With some new drugs to avoid tissue rejection, it's possible to do such in a human and allow pregnancy to happen.
It has never been tested in humans before, though, and such pregnancy is quite risky.
There are other options where the fetus is grown outside a womb, the placenta would establish itself and would make intimate connections with surrounding vessels, which would make it's removal to too risky for the patient. Leaving it in place also would be troublesome.
The main problem with this approch is keeping the parent alive after delivering the baby.
Nevertheless, after I'm done with the SRS, I'll wait an year or so and try to find a doctor willing to study such procedures in humans. I'll offer myself as a guinea pig for it.
If it goes alright, many infertible women and post-op transwomen will be able to dream of pregnacy.
It's risky, but someone has to try it. :smallannoyed:
Lex-kat:
You got one interesting story. Hugs for you. :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
SMEE... I don't really know what to say right now. Whether or not I want to caution you against doing something so dangerous, or to hug you for even considering something so... so brave.
I'm in awe. And, well... :smallredface:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Glad they're making headway on that, for you MtFs. Hopefully it'll come out within your lifetimes.
Sucks for FtMs. They can pass better than most of their male-assigned comrades, but there aren't decent options for surgery, and there don't seem to be any new procedures in development. I wonder if it's out of some kind of prejudice and/or lack of visibility, or if the surgery is just that much more difficult.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vael
Probably. Then again, I have a certain distrust of Snopes.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
It is a hoax site. It's been up since 1999, if I recall correctly.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vael
I have to say, from my perspective, people seem to be talking more about the cross-dressing type of transgender than anything else...
I don't know, maybe it just because of how I think. But seriously? Skirts? Dresses? Hose? How much do they really have to do with identifying as a woman?
How much does anything? What does anything have to do with identifying as a woman, as opposed to a man (aside from childbirth, of course)? I can't help but detect a hint of a kind of sexism in transexualism... the idea that this Other is somehow so different to the current self, somehow intrinsically different (and, apparently, superiour) to "ordinary people" (in this case, men). It seems to be reinforcing the innate difference and a sort of inequality between the sexes. In a way, one not certainly related to this (I'm not sure exactly what it is), I feel like my sex is being hijacked and somehow belittled by it all. BUT, as I've said before and no doubt will say again, I don't understand a mindset in which one's identity rests so profoundly on one's bits and/or a chromosome, and no doubt never will. On the other hand, I can see that if it matters so much these people that they're willing to undertake years (?) of treatment and medication and no doubt extremely painful surgery, it really must be a big deal to them. I must confess that I have little doubt that I'll be uncomfortable when I meed a transexual in real life, but due merely to a simple lack of contact with them (I'm uncomfortable around people of various disabilities, too, but that's because the only seriously disabled person I've spent any extended time with is my Down's syndrome cousin, and I have to reacclimatise every time we meet) and my lack of understanding. Of course, transexualism isn't any less vaguely amusing as red hair, and if I feel comfortable enough with someone to make fun of their hair, dagnabbit I'm gonna make fun of their gender/s.
Hm. I wonder who's gonna dislike me or take affront now...
SMEE, even with that procedure a C-section will still be needed, surely? The hips, the hips! Even wide female ones break sometimes, and I can't think the hormones can have that profound an effect on those >.<
edit: dagnabbit, I knew there was something specific I wanted to say. On the subject of crossdressing: The mentions of it I've seen have made me feel iffy for two reasons. First of all, the filching of other people's clothing without their knowledge. That is creepy. I would be very disturbed if I discovered someone trying on my clothes without my permission regardless of gender or species*. They're my clothes, a part of my identity. It's very wrong. Furthermore, you might stretch something. You would all know these people far better than I could, obviously, but it could be worth asking that friend or sister to dress you up. I think it'd be great fun (I'm still trying to get Conrad Poohs to try on my purple shiny pants again. Unfortunately, he's worried about people (read: girls) thinking he's gay:smallsigh:), and there's an excellent chance that they would too.
Secondly, I think it's because I get an image of the idiots at the colleges or a bad drag queen. I don't think I have any real problem with the clothes themselves. It's that they're designed (theoretically at least) for the female body, which you do not have. I take infuriatingly ages just trying to find one thing that looks any good on me, and these things are (supposed to be) made for me. You will have to search at least as hard to find something that looks decent on you. Pleeeease go to the effort, or you'll just look silly, even in your own bedroom. I know two guys who pull it off very well (one had damn good legs for stockings, and the other's just gorgeous in a cocktail dress and high heels), so I know it's possible. I'm not exactly a fashion expert, but here's some points that might come in handy:
Short skirts make legs look longer. If you don't want to emphasise height, where longer bottoms.
A low-cut top won't look any good on a flat chest (and especially, especially not a hairy one), and a padded bra won't help good there.
There's these tops that seem to be popular at the moment, with shoulder straps, a short bodice that stops under the chest and a big skirty flowy thing at the bottom. They look like maternity wear on girls. I have no reason to think they'll look any better on guys.
If you're six feet tall, with a square jaw and a five o'clock shadow, you're probably just gonna look like a bad parody no matter what.
Stockings are really uncomfortable, no matter how good they look.
Long sleeves, long skirts and a high neck always look elegant (even on me =O). I think they'd be worth a try.
*Yeah, I dunno. I blame postmodernism.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaelaroth
People suck. :smallfrown:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doihaveaname?
[Of course they do.
only if they are inclined that way
sorry... bad joke..not new either..just had to say it
if it's not an +18 joke I'll be sure to edit it out.
well.. it is now 4.00 in the morning. I got hooked on this thread I landed on whilst looking for something entirely different, but have about 14 pages yet to read. therefore I'll call it a day.
I'm 29yo, male and straight. I've had the occasional doubt both in a remote past and in more recent times.
I do not shy from thinking of someone he's handsome if I think he is. there is no underlying sexual desire in it.
obviously this is a simplified version... there is more to say, as there is for sexuality in all its shades and colors..but..04.00 a.m. , remember?
I'll just say that the debate and personal tales are mightily interesting and enriching, so I'll be sure to read the thread through. I do have some tales to tell, some issues(who hasn't?) and more than one question.
I am also curious, from a humanistic point of view more than from a personal one. so I guess I'll say something about myself at the next occasion, though it might all sound a bit dull, for most of you who have/have had to endure so much adversity.
respect
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Serpentine
I don't understand a mindset in which one's identity rests so profoundly on one's bits and/or a chromosome, and no doubt never will.
Quote:
I would be very disturbed if I discovered someone trying on my clothes without my permission regardless of gender or species*. They're my clothes, a part of my identity. It's very wrong.
And you're telling me you don't understand how identity rests in appearance? :smallconfused:
Edit of the edited edit.
I can't decide how I want to phrase this... >.<
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vael
And you're telling me you don't understand how identity rests in appearance? :smallconfused:
Is that all transexuals are doing? Changing their appearance? I know what you're getting at, but I wish I looked like other people I know. That doesn't mean I'm going to get plastic surgery to do so. So if that is all they're doing, no, I don't understand that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vael
Edit of the edited edit.
I can't decide how I want to phrase this... >.<
I look forward to it :smallwink:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
@Serpentine: On the front of borrowing clothes, I completely understand. At one point, I considered borrowing my sister's things, but... well, I creeped myself out. And I know that if she took anything of mine, I'd be equally disturbed (which is sort of an unrelated tangent, but you get my point. It works both/all ways).
But if you think about how having someone else wearing clothes makes you feel, you might get something of a better idea about why it is transsexuals place so much importance on gender. There are plenty of facets to who you are, but part of that is yourself as a girl, right? And part of expressing that is taking time to look nice/wear certain clothes, right? Well, I don't honestly know what causes transsexualism, but it's really the same thing. There's much more to anyone's identity than just gender, but it's a definite part of how we all see ourselves, and each other (for better or for worse). And it's not a part any of us can really change.
You hear more about gender from a transsexual because, for them (and me), it's a part of who we are that doesn't feel right. I can certainly understand you being uncomfortable with things you're unfamiliar with, but I hope that you can see nobody is really trying to hijack and belittle the female gender...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Serpentine
How much does anything? What does anything have to do with identifying as a woman, as opposed to a man (aside from childbirth, of course)? I can't help but detect a hint of a kind of sexism in transexualism... the idea that this Other is somehow so different to the current self, somehow intrinsically different (and, apparently, superiour) to "ordinary people" (in this case, men). It seems to be reinforcing the innate difference and a sort of inequality between the sexes. In a way, one not certainly related to this (I'm not sure exactly what it is), I feel like my sex is being hijacked and somehow belittled by it all. BUT, as I've said before and no doubt will say again, I don't understand a mindset in which one's identity rests so profoundly on one's bits and/or a chromosome, and no doubt never will. On the other hand, I can see that if it matters so much these people that they're willing to undertake years (?) of treatment and medication and no doubt extremely painful surgery, it really must be a big deal to them. I must confess that I have little doubt that I'll be uncomfortable when I meed a transexual in real life, but due merely to a simple lack of contact with them (I'm uncomfortable around people of various disabilities, too, but that's because the only seriously disabled person I've spent any extended time with is my Down's syndrome cousin, and I have to reacclimatise every time we meet) and my lack of understanding. Of course, transexualism isn't any less vaguely amusing as red hair, and if I feel comfortable enough with someone to make fun of their hair, dagnabbit I'm gonna make fun of their gender/s.
So, in this paragraph, you mention that it shouldn't matter what you wear, so long as you are comfortable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Serpentine
They're my clothes, a part of my identity. It's very wrong. Furthermore, you might stretch something....I t ake infuriatingly ages just trying to find one thing that looks any good on me, and these things are (supposed to be) made for me.
And yet, you admit to identifying your clothes as part of your identity. I guess that's what I'm getting at.
Okay, news aside, I told a friend. He's bi, and has gone into detail on his relations to other guys. When he asked "Why does everyone do this to me." I calmly said vengeance. Afterwards, when he calmed down a bit, he mentioned, "Well, I always did say that you were a woman stuck in a man's body." And he's right. Maybe it's blatantly obvious to everyone around me. That I'm really only hiding from my self...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rex Idiotarum
So, in this paragraph, you mention that it shouldn't matter what you wear, so long as you are comfortable.
And yet, you admit to identifying your clothes as part of your identity. I guess that's what I'm getting at.
Part of my identity. A very small part. More of a way express my identity on the outside. What I wear also reflects my mood, though I doubt anyone could really tell which is what. That's hardly the same as one's gender. It was just a throwaway line to try to get across why I don't like the idea of someone else wearing my clothes, nothing more. Could everyone please stop focusing on that measly little point that I'm pretty certain doesn't mean anything?:smallsigh: The idea of someone going through my things behind my back is a much bigger part of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rex Idiotarum
Okay, news aside, I told a friend. He's bi, and has gone into detail on his relations to other guys. When he asked "Why does everyone do this to me." I calmly said vengeance. Afterwards, when he calmed down a bit, he mentioned, "Well, I always did say that you were a woman stuck in a man's body." And he's right. Maybe it's blatantly obvious to everyone around me. That I'm really only hiding from my self...
From the sounds of it, that's a pretty common thing... Well done, anyway.
Phoe, I think it's mostly just discomfort from not knowing how to act, and frustration on thinking that I think there should be a way to act, and that I have to tiptoe around these things. In the specific example of my cousin, it's that I only see him maybe once a year and have no way of knowing what level he's at, so I'm afraid of patronising him or of going over his head. Once I'm around him for a while, and know approximately what his mental age is (last Christmas it was around 5 or 6, I think), I'm fine, but that changes again each time we meet. Any discomfort I have around, say, a transexual person will, I presume/hope, fade with familiarity.
For the record, "don't understand" isn't the same as "don't like". I don't really understand the need to "come out", but I really don't understand the people that despise the people for coming out, either. It just seems like a big fuss over something that doesn't make that much difference to a person... Of course, no doubt I'd feel a lot different if I was gay or transgendered or whatever.
Oh dear. I'm sidetracking the thread... In a world of baffling intolerance, I can certainly see the need for a place like this. Please, proceed?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Serpentine
Part of my identity. A very small part. More of a way express my identity on the outside. What I wear also reflects my mood, though I doubt anyone could really tell which is what. That's hardly the same as one's gender. It was just a throwaway line to try to get across why I don't like the idea of someone else wearing my clothes, nothing more. Could everyone please stop focusing on that measly little point that I'm pretty certain doesn't mean anything?:smallsigh: The idea of someone going through my things behind my back is a much bigger part of it.
I agree, and have never tried on my mom's or my sister's clothing. That would be like stealing my brother's underwear.
Still, you say sometimes you feel like wearing a dress. I'm saying sometimes I feel like wearing one, too.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
And I have no problem with you doing so. In fact, I'd love to go through my sister's clothing collection (literally. It's like her hobby) with you, and no doubt so would she.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Why the stuff about coming out? Well, not all reactions are the best, nor are they predictable, even upon people that hint about it and joke about it, like my friend did. Of course, I didn't make it a big deal. He was going on about how all his friends are bi or gay in some way, and, as the conversation winded down, I just said, "Well, who am I to comment? I'm wearing lady's underwear..." I knew it would be something of a big deal, as there is really nothing you can say to that.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Just a convenient example of a significant, uniquely LGBT, and sort of vaguely should-be-unneccessary event. Nice way to breach (?) the topic, there...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
* hugs Serpentine *
Yes, I'm aware of such facts. We, transsexuals, are kinda desperate people. We live with something that's completly alien to us. That's usually why we take gender and clothing sterotipes that high. :smallsmile:
On a side note, it's damn hard to find proper clothing around here being 6'1... :smallyuk:
And yes, a C-section is not only needed. It's the only option to deliver the baby. :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Conversational hijack:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
There are plenty of facets to who you are, but part of that is yourself as a girl, right? . . .
Primary. More than I'd like.
Quote:
And part of expressing that is taking time to look nice/wear certain clothes, right?. . .
No. Clothes might change whether or not I'm more accepted among females, but they can't make me more or less female. For me, they're useless. For someone trying to be accepted into a new gender, or for someone for whom the opinions of others matters, clothes are probably very valuable. (That sentence sounded impartial to the point of rudeness--I'm sorry--but I am fumbling in my ignorance, trying to cut myself out of the statement.)
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quincunx
No. Clothes might change whether or not I'm more accepted among females, but they can't make me more or less female.
No, but they can make you feel more or less female. It might be all in your head, but that's the most important part for a person, isn't it? How you perceive yourself and how you feel? If I feel more like a woman in stereotypical female clothing I am more female to myself.
I'd like to word this better, but I see I can't. I hope I could deliver the meaning of my post though.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
As for the borrowing others clothes thing...I mean, yes, it's better to ask first, but really, it depends on the person and I can see it being perfectly possible to borrow clothes from someone who you're close to without them caring at all. I know I've borrowed sweartshirts from my brother and any number of different clothes from my mom and it never really occurred to me to ask first, or that they would care at all.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Clothes do in fact make the man. In fact, I had this argument before in the context of Fable. Which is to say that if you're wearing something dark and gloomy, you're one way, and if you're wearing something bright and cheery, you're personality may change. If only slightly. I mean, take the most gothic kid you know, put him in a Polo Shirt and khakis, and he will seem somewhat different. Uncomfortable. You know?
Why? The cut or feel of the gothic clothes and the polo shirt don't differ too much, that should make no difference in self-perception, right? Wrong, because part of how you perceive yourself is how you feel others perceive you.
So yeah, wearing woman's clothing to increase your metaperception of being a woman seems only natural.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quincunx
No. Clothes might change whether or not I'm more accepted among females, but they can't make me more or less female. For me, they're useless. For someone trying to be accepted into a new gender, or for someone for whom the opinions of others matters, clothes are probably very valuable. (That sentence sounded impartial to the point of rudeness--I'm sorry--but I am fumbling in my ignorance, trying to cut myself out of the statement.)
Hm. I feel like I did a poor job of explaining myself. Do you believe that clothing can be used as a means of outwardly expressing various aspects of a person's personality and identity? You know, not that you become what you wear, but that clothing can in some way alter the perception of those around you, and even yourself? I think there's at least one thing for every person they would not feel comfortable wearing. And if that's true, then I'm sure for each one of those things, there is a person who loves them. I don't really know if I'm making any more sense than I was before, but I think this is about as close as I'm going to get...
@SMEE: At 6'2'', I feel your pain. Lousy above average height...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhoeKun
@SMEE: At 6'2'', I feel your pain. Lousy above average height...
Yeah, but that grants you so many advantages. With the right clothes and make-up, you can look imperious, imposing, divine, intimidating... height grants many things small folk can only dream of. Hopefully I'll get up to at least 6 foot... :smallsmile:
I've been having urges to try out make-up. I don't want to go crazy, or plaster myself in face paint, just to experiment, especially with eyeshadow (mainly kohl). I'm also planning to experiment with dyeing my hair at some point in the near future. I'm not trying to be perceived as a woman, I'd just like to see how I'd look, and refresh myself a bit. Can anyone suggest good ways to start? Or is this the wrong thread for this? :smallconfused:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Well, I've told my friend about my pansexuality. I was nervous like never before, but it looks like there was no reason to be afraid. He, (as actually expected), told me he wasn't uncomfortable with it and was glad to have me as his friend. I am feeling so incredibly relieved right now! I've told a friend, he was cool with it, nothing has changed between us. I feel so, strengthened. This is to me one of my greatest victories and I think it'll greatly help me in telling it to other people close to me.
I want to say again to him: Thank you so much for being such an awesome and understanding friend! You're the best! *hugs* And I also want to thank everyone here who has supported me. I couldn't have done it with out you! Thank you, everyone, from the bottom of my heart! *hugs everyone* :smile:
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rex Idiotarum
Clothes do in fact make the man. In fact, I had this argument before in the context of Fable. Which is to say that if you're wearing something dark and gloomy, you're one way, and if you're wearing something bright and cheery, you're personality may change. If only slightly. I mean, take the most gothic kid you know, put him in a Polo Shirt and khakis, and he will seem somewhat different. Uncomfortable. You know?
Why? The cut or feel of the gothic clothes and the polo shirt don't differ too much, that should make no difference in self-perception, right? Wrong, because part of how you perceive yourself is how you feel others perceive you.
Actually, I find polo shirts straight-up uncomfortable to wear precisely because of the way they are cut. They're effectively a collared tee-shirt, and something about that is wholly bothersome. The sleeves should be long or there should be buttons. The hideous chaimera of two garments that form a polo shirt was not a good hybridization, in my opinion.
I'm also quite glad you picked by far the easiest group to stereoytpe incorrectly on preference of dress and ran with it to try and make your point. Like trousers like brain!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaelaroth
I've been having urges to try out make-up. I don't want to go crazy, or plaster myself in face paint, just to experiment, especially with eyeshadow (mainly kohl). I'm also planning to experiment with dyeing my hair at some point in the near future. I'm not trying to be perceived as a woman, I'd just like to see how I'd look, and refresh myself a bit. Can anyone suggest good ways to start? Or is this the wrong thread for this? :smallconfused:
That depends on what look you want. There's the Siouxsie Sioux/Nina Hagen/Cleopatra style of ornate, varicoloured designs that extend beyond the actual eyelids for a very glamorous appearance, the more minute application around the edge of the eyelids (where eyelashes are), or a one-colour fill of the eyelids which will look sort of like skeleton make up and, indeed, appear to thin the face. Cover-up is never a bad way to learn to wear make-up as a teenager, as it is applied to small areas and used mostly to cover up blemishes rather than create a specific appearance.
In terms of hair-dye, depends on the colour. Buying cheap dye usually isn't a very good idea. Doing it yourself is pretty easy (though you might have blue or red or whatever hands for a few days until you get used to doing it more carefully), so I wouldn't reccomend going so far as to pay a professional. Rinse-out dyes to see what your hair would look like might be good if you aren't sure, due to their transient nature.
Congratulations, V.Z., I'm glad to hear everything went well.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VeisuItaTyhjyys
Actually, I find polo shirts straight-up uncomfortable to wear precisely because of the way they are cut. They're effectively a collared tee-shirt, and something about that is wholly bothersome. The sleeves should be long or there should be buttons. The hideous chaimera of two garments that form a polo shirt was not a good hybridization, in my opinion.
I'm also quite glad you picked by far the easiest group to stereoytpe incorrectly on preference of dress and ran with it to try and make your point. Like trousers like brain!
Traded in for spandex!
*Sigh* Completely took the wrong point about this: I was stating that if I gave you two sets of clothing that are the same cut and type, but one would look good in a country club with it pastel colored shirt and it's beige pants versus, again, same cut, feel exactly the same, but look different, with a picture of G.I.R. on it all back, withe red trim on it, you would choose the second one, right? Other's would choose the first one, right? I picked two opposing stereotypical groups, that do, in fact, exist, Goth and Prep. You are in no way going to tell me that you're friends will not look at you any differently if you showed up tomorrow(or next school day, or next time you see them) dressed in clothes of opposing clique stereotype?
*Is still in arguer mode*
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
However, Catalyst, premier Darkwave poet and one of the centres of the west coast Goth scene, wears quite a bit of colour. Nick Cave, a goth icon, primarily wears business suits, but is featured in pastel green and Star Trek uniform yellow in "Do you love me". Siouxsie Sioux dresses often in pastels and metallics. Andrew Eldritch, um, didn't wear a shirt back when the Sisters of Mercy were big, he just wore a leather jacket and big aviator sunglasses and a silver staff. All right, let's, uh, skip that one. I don't think that support's anyone's point.
Anyway, I wasn't challenging your assertion, I agree with you. I'm just tired of the "goths wear black" thing. Less by its invalidity, since a lot do, than by how it's the go-to clothing stereotype. It's cliche, more than anything else.
The polo shirt comment was a mostly facetious remark about how polo shirts are almost disturbing for me to wear.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VeisuItaTyhjyys
Nick Cave, a goth icon,
He is? Huh. And here was I just thinking he was depressing... Love ya Nicky ;)
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
He wrote a love letter on a nearly abandoned subway train in his own heroin-addled blood. You can't out-goth that unless you're drinking absinthe and faiting a divan while doing what he was. And it's hard to get divans on even abandoned subway trains.
I've tried.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Huh. His cool quota has just doubled.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Okay, and for me, Guy Clothes = Polo Shirt. I just seem forced to wear them for the uniform of society. Will I be fired for violating that uniform?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaelaroth
I've been having urges to try out make-up. I don't want to go crazy, or plaster myself in face paint, just to experiment, especially with eyeshadow (mainly kohl). I'm also planning to experiment with dyeing my hair at some point in the near future. I'm not trying to be perceived as a woman, I'd just like to see how I'd look, and refresh myself a bit. Can anyone suggest good ways to start? Or is this the wrong thread for this? :smallconfused:
No, but I thought if I quoted this, it might draw the attention of those who could possibly help you.
The best advice I could give is "Buy cheap, get cheap" which may not be a bad idea for the beginner. You don't want to buy really expensive "Lasts 8 hours" make-up until you're sure you want it to be around for 8 hours.
^Regina P. Idiotoriam, you need to spend less time hypnotizing yourself and more time writing your Nanomo book thingy. Look how far behind you are.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Hit a snag with the story, found a cure, a gaming group. I'll run them through my Zombies Ate My Teacher campaign.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I've not been doing so well in NaNo myself... >>
Anywho.
So my mother broke her little promise that she would tell me before talking to my dad about all of this. :smallsigh:
So he knows everything now. We haven't talked about it, and frankly I'm not going to go talk to him about it any time soon. He'll likely confront me sooner or later though.
Wheee...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Aww, Vael, I'm sorry about that.
I hope everything works itself out for you <3
So, I've been gone all weekend, missed a bunch, and came back to have a lot of reading. It was great to catch up. I misses this thread over the weekend:smallwink:
Lex-Kat, thank you for your story. Its given me a lot to think about <3
And, to everyone else ::hugs::
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vael
I've not been doing so well in NaNo myself... >>
Anywho.
So my mother broke her little promise that she would tell me before talking to my dad about all of this. :smallsigh:
So he knows everything now. We haven't talked about it, and frankly I'm not going to go talk to him about it any time soon. He'll likely confront me sooner or later though.
Wheee...
Oh god. I hope it goes OK. Just remember to breathe deeply!
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
I've come across a realization. It is right. I figured I might've been just joking, but I was just wading in the rivers of De Nile. The more I think about it, the more I realize that it's true. That the way my pant fit, the way my shirt fits, feels like it's out of place. That in men's 30x32, I feel like I am cross-dressing... it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like my metaperception and my self perception are not the same. Am I a boy? I don't think so... I seem to be thinking of myself as a girl. When I imagine myself, I just don't seem like a boy.
And that's when anxiety struck, while at work to the point where I felt like I could cry. I have to tell my parents. God, I can barely speak to them about my everyday stuff, how do I tell them this? What if my Mom already knows? She's smart, I wouldn't doubt her on that end, what if she doesn't? Is my subtle hinting enough? What about my dad? Would he know? How will he react? What can I do? I've contemplated running away before, could this give me an excuse to? No. That's the coward's way out. For the first time in a long time, I just don't know what to do.
I'm trembling: I haven't felt like this in years. My mind can't figure out a way out and is panicking. I'm drowning. I'm suffocating. I'm held at gunpoint. I'm at work when I realized this, and just want to go home, and curl up into a ball.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
* hugs Vael and Rex *
I'll post some advice to both of you late in the night. I'm at work right now and I don't have enough free time to elaborate my post.
You two can contact me via MSN later today if you want. I've been through it already.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Rex... :smallfrown: *hugs*
The most important thing for you to do right now is recognize that the step you're about to take is a very difficult one - it isn't something you can necessarily figure a way "out" of, because it's not a quick step, but a very slow and gradual one.
You need to give yourself some time. Ease yourself (and your parents) into this: just keep gradually dropping hints while you give yourself time to think. As soon as you stop feeling trapped, you should start to see the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel...
I need to get to class right now, but I'll be back to try and be a little more specific. I can't be as much help as SMEE, but I do know what you're going through. Hang in there for now. You too, Vael.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Well, I realized that there are thousands of signs for this, and I have a feeling that they already know. If saying I wanted to be a Lesbian and wearing hose wasn't enough...
But no, I know the sooner I do this, the faster I'll be able to be comfortable with life, and the better off I'll be. I'll do what I do when I'm on a Roller Coaster, or when I'm underwater, hold my breath, jump right in, and hope to hell that if the water's too cold, I can make it out alive.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Rex, If I ever do happen to meet you off of this board... I would ask you to go clothes shopping with me. Which is a lot as I don't often do that with anyone...
And in anycase, You have me to talk to at least... I know you have my msn and stuff. Hell, I had it easy with coming to terms with myself.
But there was mention of the posibility of becoming fully functioning? I want to wait for the exact science to come out but that just made me happy... Yay fulfilment of my dreams!
And just cause this needs to be said and will never get old cause it is true: SMEE, you're freaking amazing... And don't let anyone say otherwise. I just have to give you kudos (Eat it before it melts.) for having all your stuff and still taking the time out to be supportive to everyone here. It would be easy enough to just say you have issues with whatever and whatnot but you have that extra bit of effort that just makes it worth speaking out like this... And I should know... I was once rather introverted... kinda am still... But not as bad.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Terumitsu
And just cause this needs to be said and will never get old cause it is true: SMEE, you're freaking amazing... And don't let anyone say otherwise. I just have to give you kudos (Eat it before it melts.) for having all your stuff and still taking the time out to be supportive to everyone here. It would be easy enough to just say you have issues with whatever and whatnot but you have that extra bit of effort that just makes it worth speaking out like this...
Amen to that! Terumitsu has put that perfectly into words and no less but major admiration from here as well, SMEE. You rock! I wish I could help others like you can. I kinda suck at it, especially compared to you and some other people I know, especially due to my lack of experience (sorry if I sounded whiney there). I do what I feel I can though, and my hug stand's always open, for all of you. :smallsmile: So... *hugs Vael and Rex* Lots of strength.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Let me just say I support all of you guys (I think I've said that before though), you rock. SMEE, you show a strength I wouldn't have believed existed anymore. I don't know if I could see as a role-model, but I definitely see you as one of the strongest persons I had the chance to talk to at least indirectly.
Vael, I know what you go through is hard, but I believe your parents will stay loyal to you in the end and will love you in the end. I just have to, I am too much of a pessimist in life as it is.
Rex, try to keep it slow. I know it might be hard for you, but right now you just have to be strong. From the few times I talked to you, you are a great person, if a bit direct. I hope your parents acknowledge this and respect you for who you are.
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But I've actually come here to tell a bit of my own story. Well, I've come out to my mother today. If you can call it coming out. I simply sat down, told her that I do not feel male most of the time but rather change in how I perceive me, in a neither, an either and a both regularly. That I react to both similarly. Well, we talked about this for a while, she said she didn't quite understand it, but accepted it.
Then I told her I was bi. She didn't believe me at first. Well, she did, but she told me that since I never really tried I wouldn't really know. We then proceeded to talk about how much your sexuality is based on sexual acts and how much you already do know about it beforehand, because, well, I simply never got that far with any person. I never had the feeling I needed to touch a person in any other than an amicable way. I then tried to describe it with the Kinsley scale as probably 2X (thanks for posting this one Phoe).
She later told me she was confused from the whole talk and wanted me to just say if I'm bi or not. So I answered "I'm bi, I feel more drawn to females than males in general but actually don't care at all, I feel neither male nor female as my gender." She then thanked me to say it openly and told a few anecdotes.
I'm really happy I have such great, smart, accepting and loving parents, though my father is more snarky than witty most of the time and I don't feel like he has the need to know, and it just came up with my mother.
Well, actually the whole thing started this morning when we somehow came to speak of old times and mum said she and my father were called into Kindergarten when I was five because I apparently only played female roles. No matter what role it was, I was exclusively female. I then simply remarked that I don't feel like I have a gender most of the time either, but we didn't proceed to talk about it until this evening.
And well, since it's already 23:20, I want to get over this and have a two-hours test tomorrow morning I just want to end it with a quote of me when I was three years old that mum told me.
*While sitting in the back in a car my mother drives*
"Mum, can men drive cars too?"
"Of course they can dear, you drove with your father some times, didn't you?"
"Oh yeah, right."
Says a lot about the picture I had (and most of the time have) of men in society. For me women always had the strong, active and making part whereas men were somehow weak in comparison. Well, I haven't changed that much yet I think...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Well, first... thanks for the compliments... I... wasn't expecting them... :smallconfused:
Now, onto advice.
First, Vael:
Now that your father knows about it all, my bet is that he's just as confused as you are. So, watch him for a few days, behave as usual before him and study him.
You need to discover how comfortable (or uncomfortable) he's feeling about it. You'll need to prepare yourself to deal with it when he confronts you.
It's mostly likely that he'll be confused and angered (at himself). Let him know that he didn't failed as a father, and that you love him so much.
He may have a hard time dealing and understanding it, so provide him information about the subject in small servings.
He may happily accept everything in a couple of days, but don't expect it to happen that fast.
He'll be ready to fully accept and support you in a few months.
Good luck. :smallsmile:
Hugs, my friend.
Regina:
Now that you realized it, you should take it easy a little bit. You went through the dire mental breakdown today.
Given what you said, my bet is that your fathers already suspect of something (I'd inclined to belive they suspect you to be homossexual).
So, wait for a couple of days until you go through the thriving experience and start giving your parents more direct bits of information.
Wait a few days and call them for a serious conversation. Then, expose the facts to them.
Hugs for you too.
Beatrice.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Hi all,
New to GitP and as I was perusing the forums saw such a large and active LGBT poulation I was really surprised. (Not sure if it just surface surprise or realy deep down surprise, but either way I think it's great that so many of you are there for others who are going through al the mental/emotional/spiritual/familial bs that society has added on to just being a person.
Props to all !
Da Weasel
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rex Idiotarum
Well, I realized that there are thousands of signs for this, and I have a feeling that they already know. If saying I wanted to be a Lesbian and wearing hose wasn't enough...
But no, I know the sooner I do this, the faster I'll be able to be comfortable with life, and the better off I'll be. I'll do what I do when I'm on a Roller Coaster, or when I'm underwater, hold my breath, jump right in, and hope to hell that if the water's too cold, I can make it out alive.
That's not really an attitude I could ever pull off, so my opinion may be a bit biased, but my advice to you is still to ease into this. Being in limbo sucks, I will grant you that. But it's not always the best idea to dive straight into things.
If nothing else, take a couple days to make sure you're calm and centered; the news won't be received well if you're close to a breakdown, yourself. Whenever you decide to do it, though, good luck.
By the way, do you prefer Rex or Regina? I don't know if it matters to you or not, but it occurred to me I should probably check...
Vael: I think SMEE's pretty well covered the best way to handle your situation. Just remember to be patient with both of your parents... they will come to accept and support you, given enough time. But, for right now... *hugs* I'm sorry things aren't going as well as they could be.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
That's why I think I should do it now so that I can calm down, I don't care about the results, I just know that it'll be a lifechanging event. It's either she reacts poorly, and I spend my time at a friend's place until I get an apartment of my own, which I've been kinda hoping to happen, or she reacts well, and I can feel more free in my own home, not like I'm dodging around behind everyone's back.
Be the hardest thing in my life... but I can't live like this... I'd rather not just Hypnotize the nervousness out of the way... save that for everyone else.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
Then good luck, Regina. You may need it.
I doubt that they'll get you out of the house for it, though. You've given them enough reasons to suspect of something already.
So, go and tell her if that's the only thing that will help you calm down.
Hugs.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
If that's the case, then good luck. We'll all be here for e-hugs no matter how it turns out.
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
She... doesn't believe me... @#$%! I would've rather've been kicked out...
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
She didn't believe you? How did the conversation go?
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Re: LGBT people in the playground
She refused to believe me because I never stole my sister's clothing or played with dolls in the nurturing way... She wants me to get tested before she'll believe me.
And she claims because I've never tried to wear a dress before. Just what I need, another reason for kids to kick my ass. But screw it. I don't need her opinion.