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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Well, what he was supposed to do? Just roll over and accept open rebellion? Ok, Dorn wouldn't have openly rebelled, but it would have meant end of centralized law in Imperium and opened door to all sorts of nasty consequences based on that precedent.
    But there was no rebellion. There was only anti-Codex sentiment. Dorn was the one in charge. Emperor down, Warmaster turned traitor and Regent turned to ash. The one in charge is the current Warmaster; Dorn.

    Guilliman was the one doing the rebelling.

    Why they listened to him? Well... He had that little thing called 'more marines than everyone else combined, twice'? He was the only person that could have (and kept) Imperium together post-Heresy?
    Yes. That's the reason he was able to force his position. With Daddy dead, the IQ of the Imperium (including the Primarchs) drops about 20 points and Guilliman starts acting like Curze to force everyone into his way of thinking by "Do this or I smash you."

    He was the only Primarch who actually knew how to rule a state?
    No. If he was, Guilliman would have been made Warmaster. Lion was perfectly capable of being Warmaster too if he hadn't f*d everything up. Dorn knew perfectly well how to run a state and that's why the Emperor put him in charge.

    And we know Dorn can run a state because he's canonically the Last Primarch for ~150 years, and he does everything fine.

    Spiritual Liege would have thrown that right back and asked where Russ was during that battle, and pointed out that he kept 100.000 Heretical Marines at bay when the Wolf just kept running randomly
    Wrong on all counts.
    Russ went off to do as Dad told him to do. Then came straight back to Terra.

    Guilliman ran off because Word Bearers were attacked Calth. The Word Bearers had no interest in Terra, their job was to bait Guilliman away from Terra and they did that perfectly. Guilliman didn't keep anyone at bay. If anything, it was Lorgar who kept the Ultramarines at bay.

    ...This is pretty much the topic for Know No Fear early next year.

    Haven't latest IA introduced anti-Marine Chapters? Minotaurs? Executioners? Carcharodons?
    I already mentioned Badab War as the one time that I can recall where Marines fought Marines for a good reason. Trying to prove me wrong using Badab War Chapters doesn't really work.

    The same Imperial Guard that held against 100+ Chapters worth of Chaos Marines on Armageddon, eliminating a few dozen worth permanently?
    That's fine. But point me to a canon example of Imperial Guard taking down a Loyalist-turned-Regegade Chapter without Space Marine and/or Inquisition/Exterminatus support? Because all the attempts that I've seen have ended in failure on the High Lords' part and the 'renegade' Chapter's continuing existence.

    Why out of character?
    Because Guilliman giving up anything is entirely contrary to what he's written as. Read some books. The Guilliman I know, would more likely say "Everyone has to follow the Codex, except me." and then Guilliman would run roughshod over everyone who stood in his way.

    Guilliman was well on his way to becoming something like Huron. Maybe Know No Fear will change Guilliman.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2011-12-14 at 02:31 AM.
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