4e Jedi [Please Help]

[Darth Stabber]

Jedi

Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice through out the galaxy, and masters of the Force. However before the advent of hyperdrive they were a group of philosophers determined to use their power of the force to help people. These are the jedi from that earlier time.

Role
TBD: probably Guardian/controller

Power Source
Jedi draw their power from the Force. Jedi may draw upon the Force to subtly guide their actions, or in more overt manners to blast their foes with concussive force, move object telekinetically, or perform uncanny acts of agility.

Paragon Paths
Jedi Weapon Master
Jedi Watchman
Jedi Master
Sith Lord


Key abilities
Wisdom, Dexterity, and Strength

Armor proficiencies
Cloth, Leather

Weapon Proficiencies
Lightsaber(bastard sword), simple melee, simple ranged

Bonuses to defenses
+1 Reflex, +1 Will, +1 Fort

HP
As per fighter

Healing Surges
9 + con mod

Trained Skills
Force Knowledge and any 4 of the following
acrobatics, athletics, diplomacy, history, Insight, Perception, Heal, endurance

Jedi class features

Telekinesis
A jedi may use mage hand (as the wizard ability of same name)

Lightsaber
A Jedi's lightsaber is their life. For the puposes of D&D treat the lightsaber as bastard sword that deals radiant damage and as a class implement using it's magic bonus for both.

Force Protection
When wearing light armor a jedi may use their wisdom instead of dex when determining AC

Jedi Mark
When ever you hit an opponent with an attack you may mark that opponent. That opponent remains marked until you mark another target, die, fall unconsious or lose sight of it. When an opponent so marked attacks a target other than you, you may, as an immediate reaction make an attack Wis vs. attacker's Fort on a hit slide the attacker 1 square

Styles
Choose one:

Spoiler

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Guardian:
You may have 2 opponents marked at a time. +1 to hit on attacks with the weapon keyword

Consular:
1/per day you may choose to lose one of your daily abilities inorder to regain the use of an encounter ability of lower level as a swift action. +1 to hit on all attacks with the implement keyword

Sentinel:
you are now trained in stealth.

[Darth Stabber]

reserved for powers and pp

[Darth Stabber]

@ will

Spoiler

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Throw debris
You use the force to telekinetically pickup and throw small objects at your foes

At Will
Force, Implement
Standard Action
Range 10
Target: one creature
Attack: wisdom vs. reflex
Hit: 1d10 + wis physical damage(add 1 die per teir)


Jedi Strike
As the force guides your attack, sodoes your attack guides your opponent

At will
Force, Weapon
Standard action
Target:1 adjacent enemy
Attack: wisdom vs ac.
Hit: 1[w]+ Str You may slide the target 1 square. Increases to 2[w] @lvl11 and to 3[w] @lvl21


Saber throw
you throw your lightsaber at your foe and retrieve it with the force

At will
Force, Weapon
Standard action
Range: 5
Target: 1 creature in range
Attack: Wis vs. AC
Hit: 1[w] + Str(+die per tier)
Special:

Force guided strike
The jedi arts have taught you to let the force guide your every action

At will
force, Weapon
Standard Action
Target:1 creature
Attack: Wis vs. AC
Hit: 1[w]+wis(+1 die per tier)
Special: basic melee attack

Encounter lvl 1

Spoiler

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Old jedi mind trick
the force can have a strong influence on the weak minded. Stopping an attack from happening is often the best defence

Encounter
Force, implement, Mind affecting
Standard Action
Range: 10
Target: 1 creature
Attack: Cha vs. Will
Hit: The target may not make any attacks during their next turn, attacks that do not occur during its turn may be used normally
Jedi Consular:On a miss the target may only ues at wills on their next turn

Force Stun
[i]you call upon the force to hold you opponent fast[i]

Encounter
Force, implement, Psychic
Standard Action
Range:10
Target: 1 enemy in range
Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit:1d6+wis Psychic damage and the opponent is stunned (save ends)
Miss:1d6 Psychic damage
Jedi Sentinal: This attack gains the reliable key word.

Pushing Strike
The Force lends strength to your blow

Encounter
Force, Weapon
Standard Action
Target: 1 enemy in melee
Attack: Wis vs. AC
Hit: 2[w] + wis
Jedi Guardian: On a hit you may make a second attack againts that target
Attack: Wis vs Fort
Hit: Slide the target STR spaces

Daily lvl 1

Spoiler

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Force Push
You use the force to push back you foes

Daily
Force, implement
standard action
Close blast 2
target:each creature in blast
Attack: Wis vs Fortitude
Hit: 2d6+ wis force damage, Push the target Str mod squares then the target is knocked prone
Miss:1d6 force damage, Push the target 1 square, target is not knocked prone.

Utilities lvl2

Spoiler

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[b]Vital transfer[b]
The force is in all living things, because the force is powered by all living things. The gift of respite from the pain of wounds is well with in a jedi's power

Encounter utility
Force, healing
Move action
Range: 5
Target: self or 1 ally
Effect: Spend a healing surge, you may choose to gain the benefit yourself or choose an ally with in 5 feet to heal by your Healing Surge Value instead.

Force Speed
You channel the force to put the extra strength in your legs to put you at point B that much faster

Encounter Utility
Force
Move action
Target: self
Effect: you may move twice your speed.

Lightsaber Block

Encounter
Reaction
Trigger: you are hit by an attack against your AC.
Effect: make a Wis vs. The result of your opponents attack roll attack, If you succeed, negate that attack

Help please, Needs alot of fleshing out.

[Shadow_Elf]

I think it would be easier just to reflavour the Swordmage. Swordmage Warding sort of does what you want your Force Protection to do (and is FAR more balanced, since being able to add your wisdom to any defence at-will is far too good IMHO). They also have a bond to their sword similar to the Jedi's bond to their lightsaber. They also have numerous ways of throwing it. They are also Defender sub Controller.

[Glooble Glistencrist]

I agree, but if you're committed to going ahead with your own class, than I'm willing to help critique.

Throw Debris is way too good. Remember that any attack vs. a defense other than AC is kinda like an automatic +2 (Because those defenses tend to be about two lower than AC in most enemies.) Add to that double the usual at-will damage, double the range of an eldritch blast, and the ability to use it as a basic ranged attack, and it's just too much. Especially for a class that's not a ranged combat focused one.

1d8 sounds like good damage to me. A little higher than the wizard at-wills, but lower than the eldritch blast. I'd decrease the range to ten if you want to keep the basic attack.

[Darth Stabber]

some fixes, need more powers though.

[Yakk]

Should a Jedi Mediator be the same class as a Jedi Guardian?

[Mercenary Pen]

Should a Jedi Mediator be the same class as a Jedi Guardian?

Yup, you'd simply flesh the two out as different build types:

For example: Contemplative Jedi would suit the Mediator, whereas Warrior Jedi would better suit the Guardian.

EDIT: Didn't properly read earlier posts, so didn't notice the build styles already at the top...

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Alright. First off, no class gets a static bonus to AC as part of the defense plan. But I'll ignore that, as rules were made to be bent.

It's defender. Alright. A defender with a crappy AC though...not going to get much defending going there.

Telekineses--Nice. Flavorful, and not overpowering.

Lightsaber--Same thing here. Nicely done.

Force Defense--As mentioned, overpowered. That's a HUGE increase, and enemies usually target one defense more than the rest...so just pick and choose.

Jedi Mark--Hmmm...this is important to figure out if we plan to see how it works as a defender. The sooner you get this up, the better.

Styles--All overpowered. A +1 to hit (on top of the already overpowered Jedi Mark) is already good, but adding a skill training AND a BONUS TO MOST DAMAGE ROLLS? That's crazy good. I can get up to +9 damage on most attacks that way...that part should be cut. Sentinel is the only one that's even remotely balanced, and that's still to good. Also, none of these really says "defender." They say "striker" to me.

At Wills--Not bad, but damage increases by 1 die at 21st, and by 0 die at 11th. Might want to fix that. Again, no real defender powers...Jedi Strike maybe, but the rest aren't.

Encounter--Nice one. I like this.

Daily--A little powerful, I think. The effect is strong...I'd personally say that if it targeted 1 foe, you'd be good. As it is, it's to good.

[Alteran]

I agree that using a modified swordmage would probably be the easiest thing to do, but I can still comment on a few of the things you've made so far.

First of all, I agree that adding wisdom modifier to any defense is too powerful, especially since wisdom seems to be the only primary stat for Jedi. Also, you said swift action, and that term is no longer used in 4e. I think you mean minor action.

The fighting styles aren't really fair either, since there's the primary stat (Wisdom) should always be higher than secondary stats (Dexterity and Charisma). Also, I suggest replacing Charisma with Strength as a secondary stat. Although Jedi often play the diplomat role, many of them seem...less than charismatic to me. Strength makes a bit more sense, and it fills out the defenses, since right now fortitude defense isn't covered by any of these stats. As well, most attacks that are based off of one stat also add damage based on that modifier. This is only a problem for Jedi Strike right now.

I would reconsider making all of the ranged at-will attacks basic attacks. Especially throw debris, it doesn't seem that "basic" to me, it's not like just firing an arrow.

[RTGoodman]

Here's a suggestion - do what Alteran suggests about changing the third "suggested stat" or whatever to Str, meaning they'll have a slightly higher Fort defense, change the class defense bonuses to +1 Fort/Ref/Will just like a Paladin, and then change Force Protection to say, "While in light armor, a Jedi may determine his AC by using his Wisdom modifier instead of his Dexterity or Intelligence modifier." How's that sound?

Also, the Mark ability kinda sucks - you really need something like Aegis of Shielding, Combat Challenge, or Divine Challenge, where you can actually DO something once you've got a guy marked.

Oh, and for weapon proficiencies, I'd say maybe go with "Simple Melee, Simple Ranged, Lightsaber" or something like that.

[Mercenary Pen]

Also, the Mark ability kinda sucks - you really need something like Aegis of Shielding, Combat Challenge, or Divine Challenge, where you can actually DO something once you've got a guy marked.

Maybe give a Marking effect with a mini force push (which scales up as you level) or something...

[Izmir Stinger]

Guardian:
You may have 2 opponents marked at a time.

This Jedi Guardian feature seems to imply a limitation that doesn't exist. There is no inherent limit to how many targets can be marked by a player. The practical limitation is that powers that mark are usually a standard action and they only last one turn, so most of the time you can only have one. Classes that can mark on any attack like a Fighter, or your Jedi, can use powers that let you attack (and therefore mark) multiple targets at the same time.

Jedi Mark:
When ever you hit an opponent with an attack you may mark that opponent. When an opponent so marked attacks a target other than you, you may slide the target 1 space closer 2 you.

Forced movement that must be closer is a pull, not a slide. However, I think it should be a slide. The force doesn't care which direction it is used to move objects. It is important to specify here whether this ability is an immediate reaction or immediate interrupt. Interrupt would be much more powerful, and what you intended, I think.

[Darth Stabber]

More Fixes and Powers added

[Suleman]

A reflavored Religion is a must on the class skill list. After all, the Jedi are technically agents of a religious order.

[Darth Stabber]

Moar fixes have been made

[Shadow_Elf]

I would suggest putting a bit of time into smoother-looking formatting - try some copypasta from PHB stuff so you're sure everything is worded right. If you flesh out the formatting to make it look more organized, it will be easier for people to understand it.

For example, instead of "as per fighter" under HP, actually put in their starting HP and HP progression. This just makes it look more polished, but I suppose it isn't necessary.

Now, I was doing some math when considering how they would run the Monk's traditional Wisdom bonus to AC deal in 4e.

Here's what I think:
Let's try giving WIS to AC, but requiring them to use only cloth.
Defender A is a Paladin.
Defender B is a Swordmage.
Defender C is a Jedi.

In the first comparison:
Defender A is Level 1
He has AC: 10 (base) + 0 (1/2 level) + 8 (plate armor) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (enhancement).
For a Total of: 21 AC.
Defender B is Level 1:
He has AC: 10 (base) + 0 (1/2 level) + 3 (hide armor) + 4 (Intel 18) + 3 (warding) + 1 (enhancement)
For a Total of: 21 AC.
Defender C is Level 1
He has AC: 10 + 0 + 0 (cloth) + 4 (Wis 18) + 3 (Dex 16) + 1 (enhancement)
For a Total of: 18 AC.
So even with Wis to AC, his AC is sub-par.

We can try this at level 16, for interest's sake:
A: 10 + 8 + 11 + 2 + 1 + 4
Total: 36 AC
B: 10 + 8 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 4
Total: 36 AC
C: 10 + 8 + 6 + 4 + 1 + 4
Total: 33 AC

So the Jedi, even with Wis to AC and only Cloth, always has less AC than his counterparts.