Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne

[Jinura]

So decided that the next time, somewhere around next week, I will get a squad of Snipers and Seargent Telion. Then probably next month, I will get a Whirlwind tank or a Rhino.

[Lycan 01]

Thanks for the input, guys. But now I have an even weirder question for you...


I've heard that Orks used to be able to buy and convert enemy vehicles into their own. This process of scavenging and Orkification was relatively legal, from what I've heard. Although, I think I've also heard that its kinda been phased out over time...

So I was wondering - is buying an enemy vehicle and Orkifying it still a viable option?

You see, my local hobby shop only sells Ork Trukks. No Deth Koptas, no Wartracks, no nothin'.... But they've got every vehicle in the Imperial Guard armory, as well as other mechanical monsters used by every other race. Da Orks get no love in the vehicle department, I've gathered...

So... What if I bought a Leman Russ, and Orked it out? You know... Spikes and pokey bitz on da front an' top, Waaaaaagh! banners and grafiti on da sides and stuff, trophies and dakka all around, maybeh even slap a Grot or two on da top of it... Oh, and give it red stripes, ta make it go fasta! Heh heh heh heh... Dis be da sort of Dakka my Waaaaaaagh! needs!

(Sorry, had to do that...)

[Cristo Meyers]

Thanks for the input, guys. But now I have an even weirder question for you...


I've heard that Orks used to be able to buy and convert enemy vehicles into their own. This process of scavenging and Orkification was relatively legal, from what I've heard. Although, I think I've also heard that its kinda been phased out over time...

So I was wondering - is buying an enemy vehicle and Orkifying it still a viable option?

You see, my local hobby shop only sells Ork Trukks. No Deth Koptas, no Wartracks, no nothin'.... But they've got every vehicle in the Imperial Guard armory, as well as other mechanical monsters used by every other race. Da Orks get no love in the vehicle department, I've gathered...

So... What if I bought a Leman Russ, and Orked it out? You know... Spikes and pokey bitz on da front an' top, Waaaaaagh! banners and grafiti on da sides and stuff, trophies and dakka all around, maybeh even slap a Grot or two on da top of it... Oh, and give it red stripes, ta make it go fasta! Heh heh heh heh... Dis be da sort of Dakka my Waaaaaaagh! needs!

(Sorry, had to do that...)

Orks used to be able to buy a "Looted" enemy vehicle and use it as that vehicle. In other words, they could buy a Basilisk and actually use it as a Basilisk. Now I'm pretty sure it's just using that vehicle as an equivalent Ork vehicle (i.e.: an Ork player at my store uses Chimeras as trukks). I don't think they can actually use, say, a Leman Russ as an actual Leman Russ anymore.

[Erloas]

You see, my local hobby shop only sells Ork Trukks. No Deth Koptas, no Wartracks, no nothin'.... But they've got every vehicle in the Imperial Guard armory, as well as other mechanical monsters used by every other race. Da Orks get no love in the vehicle department, I've gathered...

So... What if I bought a Leman Russ, and Orked it out? You know... Spikes and pokey bitz on da front an' top, Waaaaaagh! banners and grafiti on da sides and stuff, trophies and dakka all around, maybeh even slap a Grot or two on da top of it... Oh, and give it red stripes, ta make it go fasta! Heh heh heh heh... Dis be da sort of Dakka my Waaaaaaagh! needs!

To expand on what Cristo Meyers said, you can convert any vehicle you want to be an ork vehicle, so long as it seems reasonable for the vehicle you are converting it for and so long as it is about the same size.

You could probably convert a Leman Russ to a Battlewagon and be fine. You could convert a rhino into a trukk and be ok. The dreadnought into a killa kan or deff dread is pretty common too. You couldn't get away with trying to convert a Vyper into a Battlewagon though.
And of course once you got done you would have the ork vehicle with all the ork rules. It would not get any of the rules of the original model.

[Lycan 01]

So... My Leman Russ would have to use the stats of a Battlewagon?

Wait, whats the difference between the two? Generally speaking... Better armor, better weapons...?

Really, the main reason I'm asking is because my IG friend is going to get a Leman Russ eventually. I won't stand much of a chance considering he's got a 6 foot kill zone with the load-out he's got planned for it... Even with Tankbustas, I doubt I'd stand much of a chance. But what about fighting fire with fire? That seemed like a good idea... But if the Battlewagon has cruddy stats compared to the Leman Russ, I dunno if it'd still be such a good idea...

Hm. What a bother...

[Cristo Meyers]

So... My Leman Russ would have to use the stats of a Battlewagon?

That's the long and short of it, unfortunately.

Wait, whats the difference between the two? Generally speaking... Better armor, better weapons...?

Really, the main reason I'm asking is because my IG friend is going to get a Leman Russ eventually. I won't stand much of a chance considering he's got a 6 foot kill zone with the load-out he's got planned for it... Even with Tankbustas, I doubt I'd stand much of a chance. But what about fighting fire with fire? That seemed like a good idea... But if the Battlewagon has cruddy stats compared to the Leman Russ, I dunno if it'd still be such a good idea...

Hm. What a bother...

I think Trukks are basically the Rhino equivalent and the Battlewagons are tougher.

I don't know much about Orks, but I think the best counter for a Leman Russ is your DethKoptas. Aren't their missles like Str 8? Think about how much a single Kopta costs compared to a Leman Russ. And only 1 Kopta can take the Russ out, you'll have 6.

For a Battlewagon, if I remember correctly, they have a bunch of add-ons that help with Ramming damage, but I don't think they have much in the way of anti-tank weaponry. Ork vehicles are more about gettin' da Boyz inta assault.

Killer Kans may be an option too, but I'm almost certain they'd have to get into close combat with the Russ.

[Erloas]

So... My Leman Russ would have to use the stats of a Battlewagon?

Wait, whats the difference between the two? Generally speaking... Better armor, better weapons...?

Really, the main reason I'm asking is because my IG friend is going to get a Leman Russ eventually. I won't stand much of a chance considering he's got a 6 foot kill zone with the load-out he's got planned for it... Even with Tankbustas, I doubt I'd stand much of a chance. But what about fighting fire with fire? That seemed like a good idea... But if the Battlewagon has cruddy stats compared to the Leman Russ, I dunno if it'd still be such a good idea...

Hm. What a bother...

One thing to keep in mind is that the reason IG have the Leman Russ is because they need the firepower. An Ork army with that sort of long range firepower is just not balanced. The fact that he can't take any unit that can stand up to even a mediocre ork unit in close combat is part of the reason.

A Leman Russ is good at killing things and can take a fair amount of firepower on its front armor... but get to the flanks and its no so strong. Get to the rear/CC and its not any stronger then any other vehicle in the game. Remember that it can only kill one thing at a time, and unless he gets lucky on some shots he's probably not going to take out a full unit in a single turn anyway. The 6' range is nice, but kind of a moot point when most tables are only 4' wide and after the first turn almost any close combat oriented army is going to be within 18-24" of the opponent.

With things like deffkoptas, stormboyz, bikers and transports you should be able to start getting people into combat on turn 2 or 3. The deffkoptas's str8 rokkits launchers will cause problems to a lot of tanks too, especially since their speed can put that on the sides and rear on the first or second turn in a lot of cases.

[Lycan 01]

Hm. Well, lucky for me, I'll have 6 Deff Koptas one me and my bro get another Assault on Black Reach kit.

Although, I noticed that the Ork Battlewagon can carry troops into battle. The BS is horrid compared to a regular Leman Russ, true. And I doubt the weapons would be as effective, either. But the ability to carry 20 Orks into battle... Oh man... I want it.

Its also worth noting that my local gaming store sells LRs for 40-so-odd bucks, and they don't even stock Battlewagons IIRC... which would be 60-so-odd bucks if they did have 'em anyway... From a money standpoint, buying and converting a LR would be a cheaper and more fun option...


Oh well. Such events are more than a few months away, should they even come to pass. But its nice to plan ahead... I just get a bit nervous when he starts talking about how he wants to get a Leman Russ (or 2) and maybe even a Basalisk later on...

[Selrahc]

One Leman Russ shouldn't give you too much worry. It's normally better against Space Marine and other power armoured foes than it is against cheap and cheerful Ork Hordes, and it isn't a very effective tank hunter either.

It's kind of a tough nut to crack, but if you want to take the battlewagon as a counter to it then don't neglect the zap kannon, that thing can eat a Russ for breakfast.

[Jinura]

One Leman Russ shouldn't give you too much worry. It's normally better against Space Marine and other power armoured foes than it is against cheap and cheerful Ork Hordes, and it isn't a very effective tank hunter either.

Tell me about, the two games I've played... Well it's NOT fun facing two leman Russ' at 850p..

But how is the strategy of quickly getting my space marine squads near the tank and then melta bomb ( from the seargent ) them to oblivion? Or is there a better strategy?

[Cristo Meyers]

Tell me about, the two games I've played... Well it's NOT fun facing two leman Russ' at 850p..

But how is the strategy of quickly getting my space marine squads near the tank and then melta bomb ( from the seargent ) them to oblivion? Or is there a better strategy?

Using the Rhino is one way, but remember that you can't assault when you disembark unless the Rhino didn't move that turn. You could still shoot, so if that squad has a meltagun or plasmagun it could work.

One really cheap anti-tank option is an Attack Bike with a multi-melta. It's only one shot, sure, but at 8+2d6 AP when within 12"...

An all-lascannon Devastator squad is another option, but hideously expensive.

Assault Marines with meltabombs is another.

[KilltheToy]

I just found that Games Workshop had Vassal 40k taken down . This is kinda depressing, since that was really my only way to play without driving 30 something miles to the nearest shop. That, and I only have Codex: CSM and 3 Chaos Marines I messed up by using a glue that expands.

Does anybody know how long it's been down?

[Winterwind]

It went down on July the 31st.

The servers remain online though, so if you have the program, you can still play it.

[KilltheToy]

It went down on July the 31st.

The servers remain online though, so if you have the program, you can still play it.

Crap. I don't have it anymore.

[Cheesegear]

One really cheap anti-tank option is an Attack Bike with a multi-melta. It's only one shot, sure, but at 8+2d6 AP when within 12"...

And you left out the Land Speeder with double Multi-Meltas...Which has two shots.

[Cristo Meyers]

And you left out the Land Speeder with double Multi-Meltas...Which has two shots.

Well, I meant one shot as in "there's no way that thing is living long enough to get 2" but yeah, the Land Speeder slipped my mind. Bit more expensive monetarily, but definitely more durable than an attack bike.

[Winterwind]

Crap. I don't have it anymore.

Well, the engine itself is still available here, as always, so all you lack is the WH40k module. And we might just be able to fix that (you have a PM)...

[TheThan]

Ok it looks like I’m going to be playing as the Dark eldar a lot lately. As my bro decided he doesn’t need 5 40K armies (Necrons, ‘Nids, imperial guard, daemons of chaos and dark eldar). So I get to use his dark eldar. Since his IG and daemons of chaos force is still being assembled. Anyway he though about selling it but decided to just let me use them (might even give them to me, not sure yet).

Anyway Dark Eldar have an ancient codex (2nd edition baby!), and are hard to play anyway. While I realize their drawbacks, I’m interested in how exactly I can pull out the full potential of this army. I understand the basics: jet bike into their faces and assault. But the problem is how do I do that without getting blasticated.

As for what units I have, I know I have at least one unit of wychs, some warriors, a lot of jet bikes and 4 or 5 raider (transports).

[JMobius]

The latest Dark Eldar codex is revised 3E edition. Make sure its the one you have (not sure exactly how you can tell, maybe it says revised on the cover?), as it has some significant updates on the original.

And yeah, that's pretty much the gist of an effective Dark Eldar list. Raiders are dirt cheap and sport big guns. Damn the Dark Eldar and their ubiquitous dark lances/disintigrators

[TheThan]

The latest Dark Eldar codex is revised 3E edition. Make sure its the one you have (not sure exactly how you can tell, maybe it says revised on the cover?), as it has some significant updates on the original.

And yeah, that's pretty much the gist of an effective Dark Eldar list. Raiders are dirt cheap and sport big guns. Damn the Dark Eldar and their ubiquitous dark lances/disintigrators

the one I have has "second edition" stamped in white on the cover. so its probably second edition.

[Erloas]

the one I have has "second edition" stamped in white on the cover. so its probably second edition.

Actually I think that is second edition of the codex, rather then second edition of the of the main rulebook.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Steel Legion is GW Direct only - Death Korps of Kreig is from Forgeworld (and they have vox, medic and whatnot as per their lists in Imperial Armour).

Yeah, but the Death Korps and the Steel Legion have identical outfits - greatcoats and gas masks. For a while I was considering getting a Steel Legion army, but decided against it due to monetary issues.
Getting an IG army off Forgeworld is expensive!

[Copper8642]

Soo.... uhhh.... pretty much set on Eldar now... most comfortable with them... and while I don't have a place in my current list for one, I like the Vyper model and think it would have it's uses strategically. However, whenever I used one in Vassal in older lists, I performed poorly.

So how do you use a Vyper?

[Erloas]

So how do you use a Vyper?

Depends what you are facing and what you need done. I almost always just equip mine with scatter lasers, because they fill a fire support role and nothing else. That keeps them fairly cheap too. They don't have the survivability to make them anti-armor with bright lances, and in almost every case the scatter laser is more useful then the star cannon for their respective prices.

They are fairly small so easy enough to keep in cover. They are cheap so that makes it not a big loss if you do loose them. They generally don't get targeted a whole lot because they are one of the least dangerous units you could be fielding. They are also big enough to be practical to provide moving cover if it is needed, anything str5 is going to start causing it problems, but a lot of the normal anti-infantry weapons are str 4, and while they can and will hurt it, its not that common and it means they aren't shooting at something else.
Going flat out with them early on can also draw a lot of fire early on, sometimes thats good, sometimes not. If you have a few wave serpents with melee troops though you want to draw fire away from them, and the Vyper can do that sometimes. And if not, the str6 scatter laser is enough to cause most tanks problems on the flank or rear.

[TheThan]

Actually I think that is second edition of the codex, rather then second edition of the of the main rulebook.

I just checked the credits and it says:

Copyright Games workshops Ldt 1998-2001; all rights reserved second printing.
(italics added)

So according to wikipidea, its 3rd edition of the main rulebook, and I guess the second printing of the codex. I’m glad we got that cleared up.

[Copper8642]

I must say, when I think about it from an in-universe perspective, I love Guardians. They whole "warrior-civilian" thing is funny from a certain viewpoint. For example: I had Guardians using an Eldar Missile Launcher wrecked a Space Marine Dreadnought once. Think about that. My civilians just killed one of humanity's oldest, greatest heroes, centuries old, revered, a master. Died because a civilian had a big gun.

Likewise, D-cannons as a concept make me laugh a bit. "Here, this is the gun that I will kill you with. It rips a hole in space, ignores your armor, almost a guaranteed kill on what it hits!" "Who've you got controlling that thing?" "My civilians."

Just humorous to me.

[Cristo Meyers]

I love how, despite every Eldar life being essentially sacrosanct, they send out their civilians in paper-thin armor with weapons that only have half the range of their common counterparts

Eldar Guardians are probably the second biggest disparity between fluff and actual unit short of Space Marines themselves.

...and I can't wait to get my hands on them so I can start my Eldar army back up again

[Copper8642]

I don't know, they are sending out their civilians in better equipment than humanity gives it's base military.

So it is good equipment, just not compared to the really awesome stuff.

[Lorn]

I don't know, they are sending out their civilians in better equipment than humanity gives it's base military.

Yes, but if they gave their civilians a bag full of rocks to throw and thin glass armour they'd be better armed and equipped than the Imperial Guard...

[Jinura]

Yes, anything is better than the Imperial Guard's lasguns, or Flash lights as they should actually be called.