Zombie Invasion - game design

[Jontom Xire]

As a side effect of the current Zombies werewolf game on this forum (start here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=679) there seems some support for having a similar game with more of an RP/rules based element and less of a WW element.

This thread is to incorporate suggestions and build a working rule set that can be used either as a party/RP game with dice, or in a forum such as this. More unique title suggestions would also be appreciated.

The next post will be a working copy of the rules, updated with suggestions as they get agreed upon or if I like them enough.

[Jontom Xire]

Zombie Rampage
A game of rampaging zombies and plucky survivors for parties or forums.

Game play:

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Game turns consist of a day phase and a night phase.

During the day phase zombies tear down the previous day's barricades hunting for victims that are no longer there (not too bright) and during the night phase the zombies can do one of:

• Roam the streets, hunting for survivors.
• Attack the barricades.
• Try and sneak into the barricades and attack those hiding within.

If there are no barricades, the zombies will all roam the streets hunting for survivors.

NPC zombies decide their night action randomly. Players that have turned into zombies can decide their own night action, and choose their action in many other places where it would normally be decided randomly.

During the day phase the survivors can do one of:

• Scavenge for useful items
• Fortify a barricade
• Heal
• Be healed
• Slope around the place being lazy

During the night phase the survivors can do one of:

• Hide in the barricades taking pot shots at zombies (if they have a ranged weapon).
• Roam the streets looking for lone zombies to fight.
• Find a hiding place and hope they survive until morning.
• Find a hiding place and snipe at zombies (if they have a long ranged weapon).

The game ends when:

• There are no more survivors (zombies win)
• There are no more zombies left (survivors win)
• N turns have passed and the military arrive to rescue the survivors (survivors win)

The number of turns depends on the number of survivors and zombies at the start of the game. There will be 1d3 zombies per player. Each zombie will have 9 points which will be distributed randomly amongst the different stats with the minimum value being 1 and the maximum value being 5.

Advanced optional rules: Additional roles and win conditions such as cultists who try and get everyone infected. Or a hunter who starts the game with a gun and one round and has to kill N zombies to win.

Stats/Skills:

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Players get to spend 13 points on the following stats. The maximum value for a statistic is 5, the minimum that players can allocate is 2, although some NPCs and zombies may have 1.

STRength: Affects melee combat and barricade building.
AGiLity: Affects ranged combat and stealthiness (hiding, sneaking).
CONstitution: Affects disease resistance and toughness.
INTelligence: Affects healing and searching/scavenging.

If there aren't enough players, NPCs can be rolled randomly.

If a player gets turned into a zombie, their stats remain the same but are used for different purposes:

STRength: Affects melee combat and breaking through barricades.
AGiLity: Affects dodging ranged attacks and sneaking into barricades.
CONstitution: Affects disease infectiousness (and TBD).
INTelligence: Affects searching for hidden players.

Each player gets one skill from the following list, which they lose on becoming a zombie, which gives them +1 to the corresponding action.

Barricading
Healing
Melee Combat
Scavenging
Shooting
Stealth (hiding)

Health

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A living person has two damage states, one for physical damage and one for infection. Zombies have only the physical damage state.

Physical Infection
-----------------------------
Healthy Healthy
Scratched Dormant
Injured Malignant
Wounded Spreading
Dead Zombified

When a character with any sort of infection dies, they automatically become a zombie. If a character is killed by a zombie they automatically become a zombie.

Each 24 hours a player with "Malignant" or "Spreading" infection who isn't having their infection medically treated rolls 1d6. If they roll higher than their CON stat they go up one state. Any player who reaches the "Zombified" infection state becomes a zombie.

If a player becomes a zombie, their stats are reduced by 1 point for each physical damage state above "Scratched", with a minimum value of 1. So if they become a zombie after death, all stats are reduced by 3. If they are "Healthy" when they turn into a zombie they become a super-zombie and all stats are increased by 1.

When taking physical damage, a survivor's toughness is his Constitution divided by 2 and rounded up. Zombies toughness is calculated in the same way but with a +1 bonus for being dead already. Toughness is used when calculating damage taken. Divide the damage total by the target's toughness to work out how many levels of physical damage the target goes up by.

Example:

Rob the Zombie (Con=3, toughness=3) gets beaten up by Bob (Con=4, toughness=2) using a baseball bat. Rob is currently undamaged. Bob ends up getting a damage total of 8. That makes 2 levels of physical damage, so Rob is now "Injured".

Next round Rob the Zombie wins and ends up with a damage total of 7. That's 3 levels of physical damage for Bob, so he goes from "Healthy" to "Wounded".

Ranged Combat:

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Ranged weapons have one of two ranges. Short or long. If a short ranged weapon is used then if the target doesn't die it can initiate melee combat. If the shooter is protected by a barricade then the target will need to force it's way through the barricade first (see "Barricades") but once it does so will target the shooter. Zombies will always attack if they are not killed by the ranged attack.

Long ranged weapons mean that the shooter is far away from the target and so can make a get-away easily, assuming the target can even see the shooter that is.

Zombies lack the co-ordination and intelligence to make ranged attacks.

To make a ranged attack, the shooter and target both roll 1d6 and add their AGL stat and any appropriate to hit or defensive modifiers. If the shooter's total is higher then the target is hit. The shooter adds any damage modifiers from the weapon and this gives the damage total. The damage total is then divided by the target's toughness and that gives how many levels of physical damage the target takes.

Melee Combat

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Normal melee combat consists of three rounds. Attacks through barricades are resolved in the same way as melee combat, but the number of rounds depends on the success of the attacker in breaking through the barricade.

Survivors cannot attack zombies unless they possess a weapon capable of harming a zombie. A mob of survivors, some with such weapons and some without, cannot attack zombies and if attacked by them cannot damage them. However on encountering zombie(s) the members of the mob with weapons can form a smaller mob and attack the zombie(s) while the unarmed survivors run away.

Before melee combat begins, all participants may fire any short range weapons they possess at the enemy. Or at their friends. But that's probably not a very good idea.

For each melee combat, all participants on one side are decided and all the participants on the other side are decided. The STR stats of all participants, and all the "to hit" modifiers of any melee weapons being used are added together to get a total melee strength for each side.

Each round, each side then rolls 1d6 and adds the value to the total melee strength to get a "To Hit" total. The side with the highest total wins the round.

If survivors win the "To Hit" roll they may choose to push back the zombies and run away rather than deal damage. This is particularly useful if they do not actually possess any weapons capable of damaging zombies.

To deal damage, take the the difference in the "To Hit" totals as the base damage value. Any damage modifiers of any weapons being used by the winning side are added to the damage value to get the damage total which is then divided by the toughness of the targets (it is assumed that all characters on one side are either zombies or living). This gives the number of physical damage levels suffered by the losing side. These are divided randomly and as evenly as possible amongst the characters on the losing side.

If survivors are being attacked by zombies then each zombie, once per round of combat, has a chance to infect a survivor. Infection attempts are spread evenly and randomly amongst the survivors. Each zombie and their target rolls 1d6 and adds their CON stat. If the zombie has a higher total then the target gains one infection level. If a survivor becomes zombified as a result of this, he drops out of the combat as he wanders off confusedly.

Example 1:

Earlier, Rob the Zombie attacked Bob, wounding him. Rob has a CON stat of 3 and rolls 2 on 1d6. Bob has a CON stat of 4 and even though he only rolls a 1 the zombie didn't roll higher, so although Bob was wounded he doesn't get infected.

Example 2:

Ann, Bob, and Charlie are attacked by 2 zombies. Although they easily defend themselves, 2 of them might get infected. Rolling randomly Charlie is the lucky fellow not to have any risk of infection. One of them (CON=3) targets Ann (CON=4) and rolls a 2 so Ann is safe, but the other (CON=4) targets Bob (CON=3) and rolls a 3 while Bob only rolls a 1, so Bob gets a Dormant Infection.

Scavenging

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When scavenging, first pick a type of item to scavenge for, or decide to scavenge for miscellaneous items. Melee Weapons and Ranged Weapons cannot be specified independantly; you can only choose Weapons as your item type.

To scavenge, the survivor rolls 1d6 and adds their INT stat to get their scavenge total.

When scavenging for miscellaneous items, survivors get a +1 bonus to their scavenge total and choose randomly from all types of items, not just those listed under "Miscellaneous Items".

Survivors may scavenge in teams. Use the INT stat of the team member with the highest value and add +1 for each additional team member scavenging. Only one item will be found and it will go to a random team member. If they are unable to carry it without dropping another item they may give it, or the other item, to another team member.

Example:

Bob (INT=4) wants something to heal his infection, so he goes to scavenge for medical supplies. He rolls a 5 which means he gets a total of 9.

Anna (INT=1) and Charles (INT=2) decide that they need to work as a team. To further increase their chances they will take whatever they find. They roll 1d6 and get a 2. That makes a total of 6.

Next look up the scavenge total on the chart below:

1-5: You find nothing. Bad luck.
6: You don't find what you're looking for, but you do find something. Randomly pick a different category and you get a low value item.
7-8: You find a low value item.
9-10: You find a high value item.
11+: You find an excellent item.

Next randomly select from all items of the type and quality found to find the exact item found.

Example:

Bob's total of 9 means he has found a high value medical item. Nice one, Bob! He decides odd numbers are paracetamol and even numbers are first-aid kit. He rolls a 4. Bad luck, Bob!

Anna and Charles' total of 6 means they have found a low value item. Just. They roll a 1d4 and get a 2 meaning that they have found a ranged weapon. They decide that odd numbers are a pistol and even numbers are ammunition. They roll a 1d6 and get a 6, so get ammunition. A further roll of 1d4 gives a 3 meaning that they have found a single shotgun shell.

Items

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Zombies do not carry or use items at all.

Each survivor has the following item slots which can be used to carry items as described:

Left hand, right hand: Any single item of any size can be carried in a single hand unless it is described as a two-handed item.

Left pocket, right pocket: Any number of items up to a total size of 2 can be carried in each pocket.

Belt: A single item of any size up to size 4 can be carried tucked into a belt.

Back: Any single item that is described as being able to be slung can be carried on the back.

Items without a size value can only be held in the hands or slung on the back (if slingable). Weapons slung on the back or carried elsewhere cannot be used unless items or weapons being carried in the hands can be stored elsewhere to free the hands for use. E.g. a survivor with a slung rifle cannot use it if he is also carrying a pistol and a cleaver and has no free slots to store them, but can use it if he has a katana that can also be slung.

If a player obtains an additional item that he cannot carry as a result of scavenging or because another player gives it to him, they must choose one to drop which will be permanently lost, or can give items to other players. It is also possible for two players with full inventories to exchange items without dropping one or using a third player as an intermediary. However at the end of a day phase after all scavenging has been resolved but before the night phase has started, all surplus items must have been redistributed or discarded.

Melee weapons

• 2 by 4: 2-handed, +1 to hit, won't damage zombies. Low value item.
• Frying pan: Size 6, 2-handed, +1 to hit, won't damage zombies. Low value item.
• Cleaver: Size 4, 1-handed, can damage zombies. Low value item.
• Baseball bat: 2-handed, +2 to hit, won't damage zombies. High value item.
• Blowtorch: Size 6, 1-handed, 1 use, +1 to damage modifier, can damage zombies. High value item.
• Axe: 2-handed, -1 to hit modifier, +1 to damage modifier, can damage zombies. High value item.
• Chain saw: 2-handed, -2 to hit modifier, +4 to damage modifier, can damage zombies. Excellent item.
• Katana: 2-handed, slingable, +1 to hit modifier, can damage zombies. Excellent item.

Ranged weapons
All ranged weapons are found with one set of ammunition loaded.

• .22 Pistol: Size 2, -1 damage modifier. Short range. Low value item.
• Air rifle: 2-handed, slingable, cannot cause damage but distracts target preventing them from performing any action. Low value item.
• Beretta: Size 3, -1 to hit modifier. +1 damage modifier. Short range. Low value item.
• .22 Rifle: 2-handed, slingable. Long range. High value item.
• Shotgun: 2-handed, slingable. Short range. High value item.
• Double-barrelled shotgun. 2-handed, slingable. Can shoot second zombie with -1 to hit on both attacks. Requires twice as much ammo for reloads or acts as normal shotgun. Short range. High value item.
• Uzi: Size 6, +1 to hit modifier. Can shoot second zombie with -1 to hit on both attacks. Short range. Excellent item.
• Sniper rifle: 2-handed, slingable, +1 to hit modifier. Long range. Excellent item.
• Ammunition: Size 1 for each 8 or part thereof for each individual type of ammo not loaded in a weapon. .22 rounds, Uzi clips, shotgun shells, sniper rifle rounds. 1, 2, or 3 at a time for low value, high value, excellent items.

Medical items

• Bandages: Size 2, 2 uses, heals damage only. Low value item.
• Sleeping pills: Size 1, 2 uses, puts target to sleep, looks just like antibiotics. Low value item.
• Whisky: Size 3 (cannot be stored in belt), prevents infection spreading, but player can still barricade, scavenge or whatever. -1 modifier to all actions. Low value item.
• Poison pill: Size 1, when swallowed player will die but not become a zombie regardless of infection state. High value item.
• Paracetamol: Size 1, 2 uses, heals infection, -3 modifier. High value item.
• First-aid kit: Size 3, 2 uses, heals damage only, +1 modifier. High value item.
• Antibiotics: Size 1, 2 uses, heals infection, +1 modifier. Excellent item.
• Med-kit: Size 6, 3 uses, heals either damage or infection. +1 modifier healing damage, -1 modifier healing infection. Excellent item.

Construction items

• More nails: Size 1, 2 uses. Goes with hammer. Low value item.
• No More Nails: Size 4, 1 use. +2 barricading modifier. Low value item.
• Duct tape: Size 3, 1 use, +2 barricading modifier. Low value item.
• Hammer and nails: Size 3, found with one set of nails, +2 barricading modifier. High value item.
• Nail gun cartridge: Size 1, 1 use, Goes with nail gun. High value item.
• Planks: 1 use, +3 barricading modifier. High value item.
• Cement: Size 8, 1 use, +6 barricading modifier. Excellent item.
• Nail gun: Size 4, found with 1 nail gun cartridge, +5 barricading modifier. Excellent item.

Miscellaneous items

• Satchel: Slingable, can store any number of items up to a total size of 6. High value item.
• Backpack: Slingable, can store any number of items up to a total size of 8. Excellent item.

Barricades

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Players who are barricading decide amongst themselves how big a barricade they need, how many people it should shelter. They add together the STR stats of all the characters helping to build the barricade, plus any modifiers from items to get the barricading total. This value is divided by the size of the barricade, and then they add 1d6 for the base strength of the building they are barricading, to get the barricade's defence value.

Example:

4 people with STR stats 2, 3, 4, 5 build a barricade for 5 people. They roll a 3 on 1d6 and so the barricade strength is ((2 + 3 + 4 + 5) / 5) + 3 = 5.

Cumulative barricade building is an optional rule still under discussion. Ideas include a cap on barricade strength (before the dice roll is added) and also that the 1d6 roll only applies for that night, while strength and items are cumulative. E.g. in the example above, if the same people barricaded the following night, the total would be 2 (from previous day) + ((2 + 3 + 4 + 5) / 5) (from STR) + 3 (1d6) = 7. There would also have to be an effect from zombie attacks otherwise once a barricade had hit it's cap no-one would need to barricade at all yet would still get a full barricade to hide in.

Healing

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Instead of barricading or scavenging, a player can choose to heal themselves or others. The player being healed (the patient) can also not barricade or scavenge. The healer can use medical items owned by either themselves or by the patient. The healer can heal as many patients as they choose, but not heal themselves, or can heal themselves only. The healer must use an appropriate medical item to heal and can only use one such item per patient per attempt to heal.

To heal infection or physical damage, roll 1d6, add INT stat and any modifiers from the medical item being used. Divide this total by 6 to get the number of levels healed. Players cannot go to better than "Healthy" state.

Attacking Barricades

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Zombies attack the people inside barricades in one of two ways. The first is to physically break through the barricade and the second is to sneak inside through an unlocked/undefended back door that has been overlooked.

To break through a barricade a zombie rolls 1d6 and adds its STR stat. It then subtracts the barricade defence value and the result is the number of attacks it gets against a randomly selected occupant of the barricade up to a maximum of 3.

Example :

The barricade built earlier had a barricade defence value of 5. Rob the Zombie (STR=4) rolls 3 on a 1d6 so gets 2 attacks against a randomly selected defender.

To sneak into a barricade, a zombie must roll 1d6 and add it's AGL stat. If it scores higher than the barricade defence value then it finds an appropriate unlocked door or unboarded window. It then subtracts the barricade defence value and the result is the number of attacks it gets against a randomly selected occupant of the barricade up to a maximum of 3.

Example:

The barricade built earlier had a barricade defence value of 5. Rob the Zombie (AGL=4) rolls 1d6 and gets 4. The total of 6 is higher than 5 so Rob finds an unlocked back door. He gets one attack against a random survivor in the barricade before being driven out.

Hide 'n' Seek

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Survivors outside of the barricade at night can do one of two things. Cower in fear in an appropriate hiding place or hunt down some zombies. The latter they can do either as a group or individually.

All characters who intend to hide or use long range weapons to kill zombies roll 1d6 and add their AGL stat. This is their "hide" score. If multiple characters are hiding together, use the lowest AGL stat of the group and subtract 1 for every character after the first. Characters roaming the streets are considered to have a "hide" value of 0.

For each zombie who is roaming the streets roll 1d6 and add their INT stat. The total is their "seek" score. Randomly select a target from all survivors with a lower "hide" score. Once all zombies have found a target (if they can) work out all survivor and zombie mobs for melee combat.

Example:

Ann, Bob, and Charlie are roaming the streets as a mob, hunting zombies. Derek has a gun and intends to shoot a zombie from long range. Ellen is hiding. 3 zombies are roaming the streets tonight. Ellen's hide score is high enough that she passes the night safely, but all the others can be targetted by the zombies. One finds Ann, one finds Charlie, and one finds Derek. The zombies that find Ann and Charlie form a mob and attack. Ann, Bob, and Charlie form a second mob and prepare to fight.

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A recommendation for how to calculate who gets found by a zombie is as follows:

For each hiding group that could be found by a zombie, subtract the hide total from the seek total and that gives how many chance they have of being found.

E.g.
Rob the Zombie gets a seek total of 8. Ann has a hide total of 4, so 4 chances of being found. Bob has 2 = 6 chances and Charles has 6 = 2 chances. That makes 12 chances total so the probability of being found for each person is:
Ann = 4/12 = 1/3
Bob = 6/12 = 1/2
Charles = 2/12 = 1/6

Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Ann, 3-5 = Bob, 6 = Charles

This makes it a little fairer as Charles is less likely to be found due to his much higher hiding total.

For each combat, there are two steps. First each character with a short range weapon can choose to use it. Second there are three rounds of melee combat as described in the "Melee Combat" section.

Example:

Bob has a shotgun. As the zombies attack he fires, wounding one zombie (selected randomly) slightly. Derek grabs his baseball bat, and the fight begins.


If a zombie hunting mob is not attacked at all, take the highest INT stat of the group, add 1 for each character after the first, and add 1d6. This is the mob's "seek" score. If their "seek" score is higher than 6 then they find a randomly selected zombie. If that zombie is attacking another survivor, the mob joins with that survivor.

If a character using a long range weapon is found they lose their chance to shoot a zombie. In the example above, Derek never got to use his weapon. If they are not found, calculate a "seek" score as for an unfound hunting mob. If the "seek" score is higher than 6 then a suitable target is found. Resolve the attack as described in the "Ranged Combat" section.

If, for some reason, a living character chooses to hunt another living character then calculate a "seek" score as for hunting mobs and long range attack mobs above.

[Elm11]

Aha! this was the post i was waiting on .

If you jsut give me a few minutes to review it all, i'll see if i can help add anything to it.

Thanks Jontom

Ok. the first thing i'm noticing here is that combat will be too complex to narrate, and it would be too clunky to work effectively. the other problem i see is that ganging up is going to be a little too overpowered, though it is much more debatable. For combat, i suggest that for combat, the two combatants simply roll 1d6 (computerized of course) the add half their strength (rounded up) and whoever has the highest gets to deal damage. This should be calculated by rolling 1d4, and adding the whole strength modifier. for instance:

Jabba the frog has a strength of five, fighting everyone else in the playground zombie, which has a strength of 3. Jabba roles a 4 for his dice roll, and adds 3 to that. Zombie rolls a 4, and adds 2, so we end up with 7 (jabba) vs 6 (playground). Now that Jabba has won, he roles a d4 and gets a 3. + his strength of 5 deals 8 damage to everyone else in the playground.

I've got what could be a good way to calculate health. Instead of having 20 points to dish out among 6 skills, make it 23 points for 7 skills, and add a new one, called toughness. For each point you have in toughness, you get 5 points of hp. This means that if you invest 3, you have enough health to survive a few attacks without some form of healing, but not so much that you can go strolling around fearlessly.

What do you think?

[Selrahc]

Aim: wasted stat - zombies don't use guns. Can we use it for something else?

Dodging bullets maybe? In life the zombie knew about weapons, so in death they instinctively take paths harder to target.

[Elm11]

Awww the data backup ate my post .

Thinking about the use of accuracy, i'm wondering whether a zombie could use it to attempt to attack a player through a barricade.

It'd have to provide a very low chance, because otherwise late game zombies could just do that every night and keep killing players, so i was thinking along the lines of a 3/6/9/12/15% chance (3% per point) to allow the zombie to make an attack agaisnt aplayer inside barricades. What do you reckon?

So i can keep track, i'll write up a word doc and start getting all of this in proper order

Hmmmmm... another problem i'm starting to see is that the zombies and players will react in a meta gaming sense because the two sides can read the other team's posts. This will be a major issue, as we can't just Pm all actions to the narrator, or he/she'd be swamped with messages. Any suggestions?

[Jontom Xire]

Umm, why a word doc? This thread is meant to be tracking changes etc.

===========

I think rather than "A attacks B then B attacks A" to make melee combat a mutual attack situation. It will make attacks quicker to resolve. Something like each participant rolls 1d6, adds weapon bonuses and Str stat. The person with the highest value takes the difference as a damage roll. For zombies this gets added to Med stat and looked up on a table/divided by 3 and rounded down/whatever. For players this reduces the target's strength. I think for player vs. player the strength reduction is temporary and can be healed by med-kits, etc. Strength 0 = incapacitated, Strength -1 = dead. If killed without infection of any sort, the player is permanently dead. If infected they become a zombie unless the person who killed them decides to chop them into small pieces to prevent this (automatic but optional).
Zombies strength is permanently reduced.

Votes for? Against? slight modifications to the idea? I'd like feedback before I update the rules post.

[banthesun]

I'm really starting to like the idea of mob combat the more I look at it. What I'd suggest though is totalling the STR of all the combatants before rolling any dice, to nerf gangs just a little. It would be possible to use a single value to encompass both attack and defence, unless the narrator feels up to managing both. Instead of each side making three attacks there could be three rounds of combat, with which ever side wins dealing damage.

It might also be a good idea to use simple damage states instead of ever decreasing STR values. For humans this would be infected (like malignent in the current game) and zombified. For zombies this would be disabled (for how ever many phases we determine as balanced) or dead.

Also, perhaps it would be interesting to limit inventory space to max number of items = STR value. Comments?

Working on some barricade ideas now

[Jontom Xire]

Yeah, one die roll per mob attacker would be a bit over-powered.

What you were saying about a single value for both attack and defence and three rounds of combat instead of three attacks each was exactly what I was trying to say. So resolving combat would be like:

Side A: Add up STR and melee weapon to hit mods for all participants and add 1d6
Side B: Ditto.

The side with the highest total value takes the difference, adds any melee weapon damage mods and applies it to:

1) A random member of the other side?
2) Divided equally amongst the other side?

I hear what you say about damage states, but would like to separate physical damage (which reduces your ability to fight, shoot, scavenge, build, etc.) and infection state. I envision a big tough guy getting a tiny scratch which barely affects him at all but gives him a malignant infection so that two turns later he is dead. Or a small guy getting so ripped to pieces by zombies that he doesn't become one.

Thinking about that, how about your physical state when you die becomes your starting state as a zombie, so a player who gets badly torn up in a zombie attack becomes a weak and ineffective zombie but a player who gets infected but is otherwise unaffected is a much stronger zombie.

So we could have damage states "Scratched", "Injured", "Wounded", and "Dead". A character goes up a state for each 2 or 3 points of damage they receive. Each level causes an additional -1 modifier to any action and that modifier also gets applied to all stats when the person becomes a zombie.

You then add the MED total of attacking zombie(s) to the damage total and subtract 1d6, and that makes the infection total. We then have infected states "Dormant", "Malignant", "Spreading", and "Zombified". A character goes up a state for each 2 or 3 points of infection they receive. Each 24 hours a player with "Malignant" or "Spreading" infection rolls 1d6. On a 5 they go up one state. On a 6 they become a zombie.

As for inventory limitations - I'm not sure. I want to keep this simple. If we make scavenging quite dangerous and the chance of finding decent items low - we could make it so you can only have one of each type of item - one gun, one melee weapon, and so on, then it should stop people building huge caches of items.


I also had an idea about barricading - how if you add all ENG stats of all barricading players, add 1d6 and divide by the size of the barricade (number of people in it). Add some value that represents the initial strength of the building being barricaded, and that gives the defensive value of the barricade. Thus a few people can build a big weak barricade or a small strong barricade, but it will almost never be strong enough to withstand a good zombie attack because the 1d6 roll when building it is divided amongst the whole size of the barricade.

E.g. 4 people with ENG stats 2, 3, 4, 5 build a barricade for 5 people with a base value of 3. They roll a 3 on 1d6 and so the barricade strength is ((2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 3) / 5) + 3 = 6.

A zombie with ENG stat of 4 would then need 3 or better on 1d6 to break through, whereupon he would get to attack a single random occupant. He would get a number of attacks equal to the value by which he broke through (to indicate the size of the breach), i.e. if he rolled a 4 he would get 4 + 4 - 6 = 2 attacks.

What do you think? And I really should be concentrating on work!!

[Opeth_Freak]

Need to discuss barricades, whether they are cumulative or destroyed each night (preferred), and also how to stop the game becoming just a bunch of players hiding behind barricades interminably.

Well I thought about it, and I have an idea:

How about both at once? As we know, destroying something is much easier than creating.

My point? Let's say, zombies will get bonus to destroying barricades. As long, as the barricade stands, it's cumulative (so if zombie attack will leave barricade at +3 status, and 6 people will fortify on the next day with ENG stat 1, then barricade stands at 9), if zombies will manage to destroy the barricade (with their destroying bonus), then players will have find another shelter.

Also, new barricades to find could have natural defense stat (wooden storage will have lesser stat than concrete house), and its up to Perception stat, how safe shelter will be found.

Thoughts?

[Jontom Xire]

Inventory ideas:

Rifle: -3 to hit modifier against zombies (hitting anywhere except the head has no effect), but always kills zombies. No modifiers against people. Long range.

Sniper rifle: Like rifle but -2 to hit against zombies, +1 to hit against people. Long range.

Shotgun: +1 to hit, -3 to damage against zombies (remember the +1 to hit carries through to add to damage total). Short range. Great way to annoy a zombie and get it to attack you.

Uzi: +3 to damage. Short range.

Pistol: Like rifle, but -2 to hit against zombies. Short range.

Long range means there is no come-back - the target cannot reach you.

Short range means if you don't kill the target it gets to attack you as per normal melee combat unless you are behind a barricade in which case it will attack the barricades and target you if it breaks through.

Weapons come with varying amounts of ammo depending on how successful your scavenge was.

Med-kit: 3 uses, heals either damage or infection, +1 modifier.
First-aid kit: 2 uses, heals damage only, +1 modifier.
Bandages: N uses, heals damage only.
Antibiotics: N uses, heals infection, +2 modifier. Number depends on success of scavenge.
Sleeping pills: N uses, puts target to sleep, looks just like antibiotics.
Paracetamol: N uses, heals infection, -1 modifier.

I guess healing will have to be MED stat + 1d6 + modifiers divided by 2. On a 5 the level decreases by 1, on a 6 it decreases by 2. That kinda sucks - it's a bit complicated. Can anyone think of anything better? How about multiply the state value by whatever the divisor was when acquiring damage (2 or 3, see post above), and you have to get higher than that. The trouble is that that seems to easy.

[Jontom Xire]

Well I thought about it, and I have an idea:

How about both at once? As we know, destroying something is much easier than creating.

My point? Let's say, zombies will get bonus to destroying barricades. As long, as the barricade stands, it's cumulative (so if zombie attack will leave barricade at +3 status, and 6 people will fortify on the next day with ENG stat 1, then barricade stands at 9), if zombies will manage to destroy the barricade (with their destroying bonus), then players will have find another shelter.

Also, new barricades to find could have natural defense stat (wooden storage will have lesser stat than concrete house), and its up to Perception stat, how safe shelter will be found.

Thoughts?

The wood/concrete thing is what I already suggested at, just not so explicit.

I thought about doing the PER search for new shelter, but it just seemed wrong.

As for cumulative barricade, if players hugely outnumber zombies attacking the barricade, then the barricade just gets stronger and stronger.

Lets say we have 8 players with ENG of 3 and 2 zombies with ENG of 3. All players barricade and roll 3 on 1d6 giving a total of 27 (protection of 3). Zombies all attack and roll 3 giving them 2 attacks on each person inside, but only doing a total of 12 damage to the barricade. The following day the barricade starts with a strength of 15! Add another 27 and the barricade is near impregnable.

The only way I'd allow this is if during the day phase, all the zombies all got one free attack on anybody entering or exiting, and in addition got to repeat their night-time barricade attack based on the defence value of the barricade at the end of the night (2). This would mean (assuming all rolls were the same and no-one died) that the barricade would have a value of 30 at the end of the day/start of the next night. Thus progress made by 8 people against a mere 2 zombies is negligible with a high chance of additional people turning to zombies in the process.

If players choose to abandon their barricade, the zombies remain at the old barricade, still attacking it while the players get a free build phase in a new building.

Buildings start with a basic structural strength of a base value multiplied by the size (remember it gets divided by size to calculate barricade value).

[Trixie]

Well, my opinion?

You're overthinking some things, needlessly complicating another. As things stand now, expected return of investment in some stats is much lower than the others, and some items are gamebreakers. Looks good, mostly, though.

I could run the math when I got home I you want to, I don't have time currently. If you want to, of course.

[Opeth_Freak]

And that's why I said, we should give Zombies some additional bonuses to destroying. I'm not an awesome mathematician (even more so, if I'll have to say all those formulas in foreign language ), but I think, there is some way to give zombies such destructive powers, so there's absolutely no way for humans to barricade themselves once and for all.

And if not by perception, then how else survivors are going to find some decent shelter, after the previous one got destroyed? Plain luck?

[banthesun]

Perhaps it would be possible to give the zombies two types of attacks against barricades. A direct attack where they try to destroy the barricades and grind them down, and a infiltrate attack, kinda based on this. The direct attack uses ENG and is most effective with large numbers of zombies and small, weak barricades, while the infiltrate attack uses STE and is most useful with small numbers of zombies and large barricades (more space to slip through).

[Jontom Xire]

Well, my opinion?

You're overthinking some things, needlessly complicating another. As things stand now, expected return of investment in some stats is much lower than the others, and some items are gamebreakers. Looks good, mostly, though.

I could run the math when I got home I you want to, I don't have time currently. If you want to, of course.

I'd like to know what you think I'm needlessly complicating, what stats are game breaking, etc. etc. I'd love you to run the math. However comments like thsi without the required detail to go fix the problems don't really help.

And that's why I said, we should give Zombies some additional bonuses to destroying. I'm not an awesome mathematician (even more so, if I'll have to say all those formulas in foreign language ), but I think, there is some way to give zombies such destructive powers, so there's absolutely no way for humans to barricade themselves once and for all.

And if not by perception, then how else survivors are going to find some decent shelter, after the previous one got destroyed? Plain luck?

I feel that any bonus to destroying can probably be overcome by just having more players and similarly weights the game unfairly in the zombies' favour in the end game.

Also we want to keep the game simple. I totally agree that using PER here might help but also that it over-complicates the game a bit. Also consider that some of the living will have lived in the town, know it really well, and know exactly which buildings are how big, what they are made of, etc. etc.

Perhaps it would be possible to give the zombies two types of attacks against barricades. A direct attack where they try to destroy the barricades and grind them down, and a infiltrate attack, kinda based on this. The direct attack uses ENG and is most effective with large numbers of zombies and small, weak barricades, while the infiltrate attack uses STE and is most useful with small numbers of zombies and large barricades (more space to slip through).

Yes, I was forgetting the infiltrate attack. Fancy making up some rules for it?

Also, to try and make the game reasonably realistic, if you stay in the same barricade, why on earth would the zombies not spend the day time trying to rip it down and attacking everyone going in and out?

Also cumulative barricades make the game more complicated. With my original proposed idea you do one quick and relatively simple calculation to work out the barricade value and that's it. With cumulative barricades you need to keep track of an overall structure strength, etc. etc.

My idea to run the game is:

1) Everyone states what they plan to do (scavenge/barricade).
2) All scavengers roll dice to see what they find.
3) GM works out which players are in barricades. Scavengers don't get a say as to how big the barricade is. If there aren't enough spaces, then scavengers get randomly chosen to stay out after any volunteers are removed.
4) Calculate barricade as (total ENG of all barricaders / barricade size) + 1d6 (yes I know I've changed this).
5) GM works out which zombies attack barricades and which hunt for players.
6) Resolve barricade attacks.
7) One by one resolve each zombie/player hunting/hiding action and do combat.

If we add cumulative barricades then we need to add a load of extra maths to this after and before the barricade attacks phase (6). Plus a possible extra phase of basic zombie demolition. I'd rather avoid it. Maybe leave it out for now and add it in later as an additional rule or something? What do you all think?

[Jontom Xire]

Elm11, I just spotted your edit to your first post. Please add new posts to make it easier for me.

Comments:

Too many numbers, too many dice rolls, too much to remember.

Strength gets used twice.

I agree (and have incorporated in all later posts) the idea of highest roller gets to deal damage.

---

I have just updated the first post with rules on health and ranged attacks, based on earlier posts. Suggested adjustments welcomed. You will see I have incorporated the concept of armour. I don't like it as it complicates the game, but on the other hand it adds a necessary element of realism. However armour itself could be removed because 1) You're unlikely to find much armour in the modern day world and 2) you start introducing the idea that some parts of the body are better armoured than others and it all starts becoming hugely complex to track.

I'd like to miss out armour. Comments?

---

I still need to write up melee combat. I think we all have a certain degree of consensus on it. We still need to decide how to convert dice rolls and stats to health levels. I fancy dividing by two.

Bob (STR=5) has a baseball bat giving him a +1 melee combat bonus to both to hit and to damage. Rob Zombie (STR=1) wants braaaaiiinssss and attacks Bob. Bob rolls a 6 and Rob rolls a 1. You can tell how this is going to go, can't you. Bob's total of 11 beat's Rob's total of 2 by 9. Now add damage modifier and that makes a damage total of 10.

Obviously such excellent luck should result in instant death of Rob from a full health state.

What if there was less luck but you were using a katana or a chainsaw? How about if the fight was much more balanced and Bob only beat Rob by 1 point? I'd like to have attacks that deal only 2 or 3 damage not actually changing the health state. The victim gets a bruise or something. Maybe zombies are more resilient to damage. I'm thinking something like divide the damage total by 3 when attacking living people and by 4 when attacking zombies. So in the example above, Rob would only go to Injured rather than dead. How about 2 and 3? Rob would go to Wounded rather than dead.

What happens if Rob got the 6 and Bob the 1? Bob ends up with a total of 7 (including the baseball bat) and Rob ends up with a total of 7 ending in a draw. Rob can never hurt Bob. This seems a little unreasonable unless we say that a 6 always hits (unless your opponent gets one too) in which case Rob can't hurt Bob but can only infect him. Moreover unless Rob gets a 6, Bob is sure to win the fight every time. Is that fair? Bob is much much stronger than Rob and he does have a baseball bat too, so maybe it is.

What do you think?

[Fawkes]

I'll read through and help you work on this when I get my computer back, but it looks like it may be too complicated. Its already a difficult game to narrate.

[Deathslayer7]

The problem I see with this is when you have 20 players with twenty different characters, you're going to have one hell of a mess, esp when try to add in barricades, whether you hit or not, how much damage is dealt, how much you can take, etc..

It's already over-complicated by forum standards if you ask me.

[Fawkes]

On second thought, this doesn't really look viable for Invasion of the Zombies. I think I'll leave this to you and work with Zombies 2 with Dr. Bath.

[Jontom Xire]

I've updated some more sections of the rules above and spoilerised them.

How about "Zombie Rampage" as a title?

Also, we seem to have two points of view about the rules I've suggested so far - either too complicated or not complicated enough. Most suggestions seem to be making the rules more complicated. Most comments are that it is too complicated to run on the forum.

I think I have enough structure in the rules that, once I finish writing them up in post #2 we could start a very small tester game, maybe 5 players and 2 zombies to start with. There's still a few areas I haven't even started on, such as scavenging and deciding what the NPC zombies do, and also I'm thinking not to bother with rules to decide whether scavenging players make it to the barricades or get caught outside.

For scavenging I'm thinking of a results table. Something like:

PER+1d6 Result
1-5 You find nothing. Bad luck.
6 You don't find what you're looking for, but you do find something. Randomly pick a different category and you get a low value item.
7-8 You find a low value item.
9-10 You find a high value item.
11 You find an excellent item.

Then all items are categorised into low value, high value, excellent, as well as by type. e.g. a baseball bat (+1 to hit) is a low value melee weapon. A chainsaw (+2 to damage) is a high value melee weapon, and a katana (+1 to hit, +2 to damage) is an excellent melee weapon.

[Jontom Xire]

It's occurred to me that currently melee combat is too balanced and that the players will not bother with a barricade but simply head out in a mob each night to hunt zombies. They will win easily if they outnumber the zombies.

As such we need to balance the game. What I propose is something along the lines that zombies get a small to hit bonus per zombie or get to roll an extra dice or something but not so much that they will easily kill players. Also that zombies cannot be attacked or harmed if the player is unarmed and that the majority of melee weapons won't harm zombies either.

If anyone is still reading this thread; what do you think? Got any ideas on the mechanics?

[Selrahc]

You could remove the ability to get rid of infections. Which means injured humans are screwed without, perhaps, some rare scavenged items.

Alternatively then I'd make zombies much much harder to kill. Or start with more of them.

Really, I'd go for the idea that zombies are not players. It would remove an entire strata of complexity from the game, and allow you to introduce however many zombies are needed to provide a challenge.

[banthesun]

I'm thinking large numbers of zombies. Instead of having the goal as kill all zombies, you could have it as survive a certain number of days. As an added feature this would mean that the last few days would have a real desperation feel to them, you're not going to beat the zombies, but can you survive against the greatest hordes? But back to the topic at hand; I'd have large numbers of zombies, but only have them form large mobs at night. During the day the players can take out a few undead seperated from the groups, but once the sun goes down they're too active to try and hunt.

[Jontom Xire]

BTS: If you look at the rules post you'll see I've already got surviving as a game end condition - but as a draw.

Selrahc: I always planned to have several NPC zombies - I just wanted to make it so players could still enjoy the game once they got zombified. I don't think that really adds complexity.

I don't think I'll remove the ability to cure infections, but I will make it harder than healing physical damage. If you look in the rules post at the medical items and the rules for scavenging you will see that it's really really hard to get items that will reliably cure infection anyway (I'm going to reduce the modifiers as well). And I'll make it so you have to have a medical item to do any healing.

Also If you look at the rules post you'll see I've made it so that when healing or being healed (or healing yourself) you cannot scavenge or barricade. I think that will balance it so that if players are infected and don't heal then they turn into zombies, but if they do heal then the barricades are not strong enough and they end up being killed by zombies and becoming a zombie anyway!

I agree that we need more zombies. Zombie films always have quite a lot of zombies even at the start. But even so we don't want players mobbing up and picking off lone zombies too easily until there are none left. I also realise that there is a flaw in the "cannot damage zombies" thing. I think I'll keep it to prevent players mobbing up and hunting down zombies too easily, but basically if there are more players than zombies then they don't need barricades because they can always prevent themselves being hit.

Maybe the solution to that is to make it so that there is a chance of being infected whenever you are attacked, even if you don't get hit. Hence if 20 players stand in the open and easily defend themselves against a mere 5 zombies, there is a chance that 5 of them will get infected. Hence you need barricades to prevent getting attacked in the first place.

[Jontom Xire]

Ok, rules are almost finished. Just need to finish the "hunt and seek" section. I think it's obvious how it finishes.

I'd like lots of comments on the rules as they stand, but if you don't like something, please suggest an alternative instead of just criticising.

I'd like to start a small tester game, in this thread, on Monday. 5 to 10 players max. If you want to play, post your character name and stats in this thread. Rules may change during the course of the game, and there probably won't be much/any flavour text.

Thanks for all your comments. Most of them have been really helpful and I hope you can see that they've been incorporated in some form or other in the finished current rules.

[Deathslayer7]

I'm interested in this. Let's see how it goes.

Use the same character from the on-going Zombie.

Jon The Ace-Zombie Killer. Having practiced experience before hand, he knows that the best way to get rid of an zombie infestation is to kill them before they can kill you.

RNG: 4
STR: 4
ENG: 1
PER: 5
STE: 5
MED: 1

[The Bookworm]

Garth the Librarian
RNG: 3
STR: 1
ENG: 4
PER: 4
STE: 4
MED: 4

[Trixie]

Ok, rules are almost finished. Just need to finish the "hunt and seek" section. I think it's obvious how it finishes.

I'd like lots of comments on the rules as they stand, but if you don't like something, please suggest an alternative instead of just criticising.

Hmmm. Okay, here are a few tips (from IMHO) you might want:

Spoiler

Show

1) A few too many stats, mix of stats with skills. For some reason, having strength, stealth and engineering in the same place bugs me. As it is, it might be good for small games, but over 20+ players you need to keep it as simple as possible. Suggestion:

4 stats: Strenght, Agility, Constitution, Intellekt. In short, SICK (yes, I'm aware that English spells 'intelekt' differently ). Each stat ranges from 2 to 5 (13 divided between four stats - yeah, players are unlucky considering they're in the midst of the zombie attack).

Each has two uses: STR (melee combat, carrying capacity) AGL (ranged combat, stealth) CON (HPs, disease resistance) INT (healing, barricading). To keep the flavor of different people each player can choose two 'skills', representing areas in which he excels (+1 to roll while using these) - for example, melee combat & stealth, or healing & disease resistance.

2) Health - 2xCON. Damage is subtracted from that. If health falls below CON, player takes -1 to all stats. When HP falls to 0, player takes -2 to all stats, is prone and dies at the end of the round unless stabilized. This of course applies to healing and disease checks.

Disease resistance - each time player is damaged by zombie, the damage taken+d6 is rolled vs CON+d6. Each time player loses this check one disease mark (DM) is added. Players turn into zombies if:
A) number of DMs > CON, and,
B) they fail to roll more than number of DMs on a d6 (last chance will save, rolled on the end of every turn). This roll is kept secret.

3) Phases within turn: Activation, Seek, Battle, Repair.

Activation: everyone heals 1 HP, zombies heal 2 HP, new zombies spawn.

Seek: Scavenging party. If someone failed their disease check and wandered out, they turn into a zombie while outside. Everyone outside can either scavenge or guard (more in battle section).

Battle: attack of zombies. Zombies that haven't took part in the outside battle (note - narrator has to randomly assign zombies to both battles) attack the 'fort'. If someone failed their disease check and remained, they turn into zombie now, and attack from within a barricade.

Repair: healing, repairs to damaged barricade, last chance to stop zombification.

3) Battles - again, simple. While scavenging: [long range phase] people that are guarding get one extra action. They can shoot (if equipped with long range weaponry) or warn comrades. Then comes [short range] - everyone with ranged weapons fire. Then melee attacks are resolved simultaneously. At this time, people can break contact with the zombies, taking wounded with themselves (one per 3 STR points), or press attack. Zombies also can run, if the battle goes badly, but as they are slower they get one last long ranged phase against them. Wounded left behind are instantly zombified.

Note - to make the game more balanced, maybe only warned people can fight? Or maybe each killed zombie (blood spraying, etc) can give one disease mark to killer (except in long range), to disencourage munchkin killing sprees with a katana?

Fights are resolved simply, mostly as you proposed - STR+d6 vs STR+d6, or DEX+d6 vs DEX+d6 - winner deals damage equal to difference. Note that makes existence of weapons with bonus to damage or to hit only possible. If human loses, disease check also applies. In general, stat + d6 vs opposing stat + d6, with as low number of modifiers should always apply, without crosschecking, to make it consistent.

But please, not katanas, and especially not with huge to hit bonuses. Make weapons unique in other ways - scoped rifle gives a +1 shot in long ranged phase, -1 in short range, chainsaw adds 3 to damage (if you manage to hit, that is), uzi lets you attack one zombie, or two at -1 to hit.

Barricade battle is similar, but this time everyone has a chance to shot at long range, and the zombies have to force through a barricade. Unless they are already inside, heh heh.

4) Zombies - to solve problem of them being not a big threat - spawn a few of weak ones each turn. They come from outside, or something. To make players shine - their INT is always 1, which means zombie players can redistribute freed points to other stats. Make them tough - free +1 to CON, +1 to damage. Let the zombified players be 'sort of' in command - as the fresh zombies they have better stats than others and they can sway the NPC ones to battles they want to fight.

There should be many of them, if weak, more than players, to not make the PCs wipe the whole zombie population out.

5) Healing - let's say, INT + d6 vs damage dealt = difference healed. Still, to not make this too tough, a few points, perhaps equal to equipment bonus, should be healed always. Similarly, a check against disease might heal one point, or two in case of excellent equipment or huge success.

Huh. I wonder if anyone will read this. Tl;dr - a list of changes that might streamline a few part, and a few general comments.

[The Bookworm]

I read it. It's a whole lot simpler.

[Fawkes]

I'd be willing to help test, especially if you use some of Trixie's rewrite. I do think the gae still seems geared more toward smaller numbers.