ABR Discussion Thread XXXI - The Gift of Fish

[Kumo]

It's not wrong to win against them if you show it in a way that makes sense - it's the difference between having the Navy SEALS show up and having one man outsmart them and take them out one by one using their environment and barely getting out alive, and having the Navy SEALS show up and get mowed down by a man standing there with a machine gun when they could very easily have just gone around him.

I apologize for the short most likely poorly worded posts, I'm currently in a hospital typing this up on my iPod. So far they've only lost twice, and one of them you said was fine. The other was adequately explained. The seal analogy works well - in the case I'm referring to it's more like a land mine, snipers or a grenade that the seals didn't know about.

[Darklord Bright]

I apologize for the short most likely poorly worded posts, I'm currently in a hospital typing this up on my iPod. So far they've only lost twice, and one of them you said was fine. The other was adequately explained. The seal analogy works well - in the case I'm referring to it's more like a land mine, snipers or a grenade that the seals didn't know about.

I'm just saying that showing them acting in a way consistent with what they are shouldn't be that hard, plus Fay has expressed a complete disregard for how the soldiers should be acting or how tough they're supposed to be in her comments simply because "They're faceless mooks!" which is a pretty poor defense.

I, at least, am not asking for Fayte to get his ass handed to him - I'm just saying that if the intention is to have him completely slaughter a troop of special forces who, being special forces, should have intel and know what they're dealing with? Then even I have a problem with that.

If, of course, that's not the intention, then I apologize to Fay - but so far she's made it pretty clear that that's what she was intending to do.

[CrimsonAngel]

Someone could make a deset NPC and help Fay out or something...

[Threeshades]

Another FI up. I'm done for today. G'night.

[The Gremlin]

I thought he was using physics as a reason elite soldiers are more competent than the average soldier.

Not really laws of physics, more like laws of logic. A monster typo+spellcheck=profit!

[Kumo]

I'm just saying that showing them acting in a way consistent with what they are shouldn't be that hard, plus Fay has expressed a complete disregard for how the soldiers should be acting or how tough they're supposed to be in her comments simply because "They're faceless mooks!" which is a pretty poor defense.

I, at least, am not asking for Fayte to get his ass handed to him - I'm just saying that if the intention is to have him completely slaughter a troop of special forces who, being special forces, should have intel and know what they're dealing with? Then even I have a problem with that.

If, of course, that's not the intention, then I apologize to Fay - but so far she's made it pretty clear that that's what she was intending to do.

I don't remember exactly where it was posted (might be the IRC) but Fay mentioned that he plans to have the squad and Fayte fight so that Fayte still wins but the four of them and him are fairly even. (Don't quote me on that, please.)

What i don't understand is that there's been no indication besides Fayte's confidence that he's going to slaughter them like a forest fire slaughters trees, either, yet it is being treated that way.

I did look back for the comment you mentioned - what he said was that he considered going back and changing it but chose not to since it's his comic and four nameless facelesses. Mooks? No. But nobody's going to hear about how much their son is going to miss them when they die either.

Not really laws of physics, more like laws of logic. A monster typo+spellcheck=profit!

A pointed statement that does not actually change the invalidity of your point in any conceivable manner. In fact, it kind of makes it worse (at least in my eyes) because humans are more emotional than logical anyway.

[The Gremlin]

I don't remember exactly where it was posted (might be the IRC) but Fay mentioned that he plans to have the squad and Fayte fight so that Fayte still wins but the four of them and him are fairly even. (Don't quote me on that, please.)

What i don't understand is that there's been no indication besides Fayte's confidence that he's going to slaughter them like a forest fire slaughters trees, either, yet it is being treated that way.

I did look back for the comment you mentioned - what he said was that he considered going back and changing it but chose not to since it's his comic and four nameless facelesses. Mooks? No. But nobody's going to hear about how much their son is going to miss them when they die either.



A pointed statement that does not actually change the invalidity of your point in any conceivable manner. In fact, it kind of makes it worse (at least in my eyes) because humans are more emotional than logical anyway.

Dude, I'm not talking about their logic. I'm talking about our logic. The idea that Fayte could ever take out four elite gunmen if we actually payed attention to logic in his comic?

Also, he's given more indication than lack thereof.

[Fin]

Why? Was that blade supposed to be Threeshades's?

Aye, I didn't expect you to get it from just the comic but I did say that I was planning on bumping into you in my next comic. But not to worry.

Also I submitted a new thread a few days ago, it is awaiting some very careful and patient approval.

[Kumo]

Dude, I'm not talking about their logic. I'm talking about our logic. The idea that Fayte could ever take out four elite gunmen if we actually payed attention to logic in his comic?

ANOTHER pointless statement.

Also, he's given more indication than lack thereof.

Could you please explain that? Because i have no idea what you mean.

[Grim ranger]

For love of plot, I leave this thread for month or two to finish my exams and Peacekeepers have became so elite that PC:s don't stand a chance against them? It seems my fears on the matter were justified.

Let's see if I can add something original to "peacekeepers own you" vs. "peacekeepers are owned"- argument. We all know that Special Tactics Peacekeepers are not pushovers, but they should get this much of an advantage. Why? Because in the setting they have effectively limitless resources and reinforcements at their beck and call, and if PC:s try to do something original, Mask can just resort to "they bring in hundred peacekeepers more, you die"-card. What fun is it if the outcome of the fights is decided in advance by crushing superiority of Peacekeepers simply trough Elite Mook Zerg Rush? This is not very fair nor is it fun.

And second point concerning the behaviour of the Peacekeepers. I don't think every single one of them would do everything "by the book", nor I see the harm in letting writers portray them in their own invidual styles. Should they be portrayed as total morons who cannot hit a wall of office building while inside it? No, they should not be portrayed thusly and they have not been. One missed piece of protocol should not be allowed to topple the Canon status of comic. If Mask comes down amongst us and lays down the "ultimate rules of portraying Peacekeepers" then I would propably listen. Othervice it makes no difference as long as not done so wrong it has to be intentional.

[Emperor Ing]

Solution is simple: Get Rand to kill 'em.

[Darklord Bright]

For love of plot, I leave this thread for month or two to finish my exams and Peacekeepers have became so elite that PC:s don't stand a chance against them?

If you had read my posts, at least, you would know that my point was not that they should be unbeatable - far from it - simply that they should be beaten in a matter that makes sense given their 'elite' status. My argument has been that 'Outsmarting the special forces = yes, Blowing them to hell without a challenge = no'.

So far, nobody has done the latter, but given that things appeared to be going that way, I spoke my piece. We have plenty of easily beatable Public Order peacekeepers, so why use the special forces in a comic where they are not depicted as special forces, you know? I'm not saying they should all be the spawn of Chuck Norris and Satan, I'm just trying to remind people that they should be competent, given that these aren't just any old random picked off the street, these are specially trained soldiers. They make mistakes, yes, but they shouldn't be bumbling mooks.

Once again, so far no one has portrayed them like this, but it's better to remind people preemptively than to have to argue after the fact. No harm done.

[Threeshades]

All work and no feedback make Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback macke Threeshadesa dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades a dull boy. All wotj and no feedabck bake Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades A dull boy. All work and tno feedback make Threshades a dull boy.

Aye, I didn't expect you to get it from just the comic but I did say that I was planning on bumping into you in my next comic. But not to worry.

Also I submitted a new thread a few days ago, it is awaiting some very careful and patient approval.

I could make it so that your comic will fit in some time later. Next thing the werewolves are gonna do is head back to the citadel and try to get threeshades back on her feet.

[Lyinginbedmon]

It's a group.
Of Resistance members.
From various races.
All of whom are werewolves.

F'kin A!

[Mina Kobold]

All work and no feedback make Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback macke Threeshadesa dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades a dull boy. All wotj and no feedabck bake Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make Threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades a dull boy. All work and no feedback make threeshades A dull boy. All work and tno feedback make Threshades a dull boy.

Sorry, thought you were sleeping, comics are awesome, no critic, bye!

*leaves and comes back with an apple pie and top hat*

[The Gremlin]

If you had read my posts, at least, you would know that my point was not that they should be unbeatable - far from it - simply that they should be beaten in a matter that makes sense given their 'elite' status. My argument has been that 'Outsmarting the special forces = yes, Blowing them to hell without a challenge = no'.

So far, nobody has done the latter, but given that things appeared to be going that way, I spoke my piece. We have plenty of easily beatable Public Order peacekeepers, so why use the special forces in a comic where they are not depicted as special forces, you know? I'm not saying they should all be the spawn of Chuck Norris and Satan, I'm just trying to remind people that they should be competent, given that these aren't just any old random picked off the street, these are specially trained soldiers. They make mistakes, yes, but they shouldn't be bumbling mooks.

Once again, so far no one has portrayed them like this, but it's better to remind people preemptively than to have to argue after the fact. No harm done.

Hear, hear. This pretty much sums up what I'm trying to say. Except the part about the chickens. I just can't seem to make that part clear.

[Fin]

I could make it so that your comic will fit in some time later. Next thing the werewolves are gonna do is head back to the citadel and try to get threeshades back on her feet.

Well, after seeing your latest comic I was wondering if perhaps Fin could cross paths with the WereWolf group (and TS's body) en route to the citadel... I always wanted to ride a WereWolf...

Also, to feed your need for feedback: I was very impressed with wolfy ambushers, I like your stylez! Though I can't help but think that the drow's hair was the thing took the longest time to draw... It is very intricate.

[T-O-E]

It seems people can't take non-magic users as serious threats. Maybe some sort of UNA magic division? It seems weird that there isn't one, aside from the Ghosts.

[Mina Kobold]

Sorry, thought you were sleeping, comics are awesome, no critic, bye!

*leaves and comes back with an apple pie and top hat*

I got another comment now! YAY!:

Neekah Gahbiss is awesome.

That is all.

EDIT:

T-O-E: That's because theuy don't like magic very much

[The Gremlin]

I got another comment now! YAY!:

Neekah Gahbiss is awesome.

That is all.

EDIT:

T-O-E: That's because theuy don't like magic very much

Don't they see it as outdated? After all, regardless of what the ABRians may think, the gun is mightier than the pen. Or any magic stuff, really.

[Mina Kobold]

Don't they see it as outdated? After all, regardless of what the ABRians may think, the gun is mightier than the pen. Or any magic stuff, really.

magic can create gigantic balls of fire, grant flight and cross the planes of existence just to name a few.

How is a gun mightier than that?

[BRC]

magic can create gigantic balls of fire, grant flight and cross the planes of existence just to name a few.

How is a gun mightier than that?

Because it takes years of training, experience, and a good deal of luck to do that.

It takes a few months of training to shoot a gun or throw a grenade. And in real life, a bullet kills people just as well as shooting them with lightning.

[The Gremlin]

magic can create gigantic balls of fire, grant flight and cross the planes of existence just to name a few.

How is a gun mightier than that?

Because squeezing a trigger the size of a sewing needle takes a bit less effort and time than chanting and selling your soul.

[Mina Kobold]

Because it takes years of training, experience, and a good deal of luck to do that.

It takes a few months of training to shoot a gun or throw a grenade. And in real life, a bullet kills people just as well as shooting them with lightning.

He said 'mightier' not 'more convenient'

A bullet in real life might kill you if you are in plain sight without a bulletproof vest* while magic can summon creatures who shrug of grenades like pebbles, lay waste to entire cities, turn friend against friend and much, much more.

It might not be easy to get that much power but the magic itself is not weaker than bullets.

* I acknowledge that it's still incredibly dangerous, just nothing near magic.

EDIT:

Because squeezing a trigger the size of a sewing needle takes a bit less effort and time than chanting and selling your soul.

THAT. IS. NOT. MIGHT!

Might is potential and power, not how coonvenient it is to do it!

[Kumo]

Because squeezing a trigger the size of a sewing needle takes a bit less effort and time than chanting and selling your soul.

Do you understand how magic works? like, at all?

I'll grant you i'm a little fuzzy on the specifics but im pretty damn sure you don't have to sell your soul. (except maybe warlocks)

[Mina Kobold]

Do you understand how magic works? like, at all?

I'll grant you i'm a little fuzzy on the specifics but im pretty damn sure you don't have to sell your soul. (except maybe warlocks)

Psst, new thread

But you are right, magic rarely requires you to give your soul to anything and is quite oftentimes used for the exact opposite (as with lichdom)

[The Gremlin]

Psst, new thread

But you are right, magic rarely requires you to give your soul to anything and is quite oftentimes used for the exact opposite (as with lichdom)

'twas a joke.
Man, you guys need to link the thread, we don't all watch the forum.

[Kumo]

'twas a joke.
Man, you guys need to link the thread, we don't all watch the forum.

Oh stop being so lazy

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149053