Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[Lix Lorn]

I'd post it in my thread but it's so damn old that it might be considered thread necromancy.

First things first, you're allowed to Raise your own thread. It's officially an exception.

Silver Spittle you may want to specify adds the force damage this feature would normally do, as is it RAW doesn't specify how much damage.

See the Taint, instead of saying it stacks, you may want to specify that each additional time you take it adds 10ft. Same for Elder Bile.

...you have two different augments called Elder Bile.

[Matar]

First things first, you're allowed to Raise your own thread. It's officially an exception.

I was not aware of this at all. Thank you very much for bringing it to my attention.

Silver Spittle you may want to specify adds the force damage this feature would normally do, as is it RAW doesn't specify how much damage.

No no no. It makes your bite attack deal force damage, not force damage equal to your Cosmic Protoplasm. It basically changes the damage type, that's all. I take it the wording isn't clear? Or do you not like that ability?

See the Taint, instead of saying it stacks, you may want to specify that each additional time you take it adds 10ft. Same for Elder Bile.

Okay. This look alright?

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This feature is added to your Eye features or natural eyes. You are capable of seeing any creature within 10 feet that have touched your Cosmic Protoplasm. This allows you to see them through walls, in darkness, while blind, etc. This feature may be added multiple time, each time increasing the range of See the Taint by 10 feet.

...you have two different augments called Elder Bile.

Utter sillyness on my part. This is what it's supposed to be called.

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Thinking Ooze: Additional cost 2[/SIZE]
Creatures that either come into direct contact with or are affected by your Cosmic Protoplasm are capable of reading your thoughts and may see what you see, so long as you are within 10 feet of them. This feature stacks with itself.

Here is a link to the class thread. Please respond here if you don't mind. I don't think Owrtho wants us filling his thread with talk of another class xD

[Gideon Falcon]

I just noticed something that I want to clarify; do the magic eating fleshes stack? Can it be applied to the same flesh multiple times?

[Apowerfulfoe]

Hi. I was wondering what you guys though of the following feat

You Are What You Eat (Aberrant)
You gain the ability to take on the characteristics of a creature you have recently devoured.
Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Form Points, Decentralized Body, Conservative Form
Benefit: After killing a creature using the Devour class ability you can gain their form as if using the Assume Alternate Form (SU) ability in the SRD.(With the exception that you do not loose other features obtained through class levels) You must decide to use this ability immediately after you kill a creature using the Devour class ability. It takes a full round action to gain the new form and cost a number of form points equal to 3 X HD of the creature Devoured. The form points may be changed from other features as part of this full round action. This ability works only while in your true form. If form points are removed from this ability you lose this ability.

[Sindri]

Three thoughts on that:
First, it would be cool to have an feat that allows you to disguise yourself as whoever you just killed and replace them to hunt down their friends more effectively, as this would add to both the variety of possible ozodrin builds and the horror value when used as a villain. If this is the intention, I'd recommend replacing Alternate Form with Change Shape, and maybe restrict the creature type to whatever type the Ozodrin is (or was before 10th level); it isn't as useful as a power up, and thus wouldn't require as high of prereqs and could maybe have the form point cost lowered, but it's just as good of a disguise and already lets you keep your class abilities.
It sort of seems wrong to give the Ozodrin an ability that makes them more powerful by fixing themself in one shape, especially such a euclidean, terrestrial shape as most of their food. Also, from a balance perspective, I'd be worried about the high potential for abuse from an ability that gives you the stats of whatever you can find and eat, permanently. On the other hand...
It'd be nice to finally have an ability that lets you improve your size or physical stats. So far, without outside magical assistance, the Ozodrin is always using colossal tentacles and gargantuan mouths anchored to a medium body with average strength. At high levels it's almost easier to put all your points into a massive puppet and ride it around all the time.

[babus]

On the other hand...
It'd be nice to finally have an ability that lets you improve your size or physical stats. So far, without outside magical assistance, the Ozodrin is always using colossal tentacles and gargantuan mouths anchored to a medium body with average strength. At high levels it's almost easier to put all your points into a massive puppet and ride it around all the time.

There's a feat here that lets you move up one size category. Melds pretty well with the traditional Ozodrin builds, and I'd imagine you could use augments to increase the effectiveness once you acquire power points.

[Sindri]

Yeah, but that gives you one size category for a few rounds of each day, without ability score improvement, for a whole feat. It's rarely worth it to spend something that you only get once every three levels to imitate a minor first level spell, unless it somehow works better than the original, can be used more easily/frequently, it meshes with other abilities you have (like if this could be upgraded with form points or something), or there are thematic reasons you can't get magical assistance.

[babus]

Well, gaining an ability you otherwise wouldn't have had access to is always nice, and it does add +2 Strength as a result of the size change (source) with an additional bonus related to Grappling, but yeah, I see your point on it being a first level Psionic ability.

Perhaps just allow it augments based on the number of Aberrant feats you possess, as would normally be the case if you were a psion? That would allow you to increase the size beyond just one level, which would help a lot. Might be a bit overpowered actually.

And as far as feats are concerned, they are only every four levels, but remember that you get bonus ones as an Ozodrin, and there are a lot of fun ways to grab more. I'm personally planning an Ozodrin that will have 16 aberrant feats by level 20.

[Nanoblack]

Do the condensed/engorged flesh augments not increase your size? Giving an ability that increases stats is just asking for abuse.

[StormRaven]

Something I've been meaning to bring up for a bit. The no Str or size increases to your worldly guise and no augments to natural weapons that are not features? That's all gone at level 16. Otherworldly guise lets you basically treat your worldly guise as a puppet with a limited number of features...and no lure traps or shifting features or at least that's what I meant when I wrote that ability...
Puppets gain Strong puppet for a Str boost and Engorged Flesh +Large x+Long x increases base size.

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Otherworldly Guise (Ex): An ozodrin of 16th level or higher can force aspects of its true form onto it's worldly guise. As a full-round action an ozodrin may swap the features of it worldly guise for different features. Calculate the worldly guise features as if you were a puppet of your race, do not count features from aberrant feats. The form points need to form such a puppet + 1/10 of your form points may be redistributed into new features. No more than than the starting number of features+ 1 per 5 ozodrin level may be present. Basic eyes count for 1/2. You may not add shifting features, Puppets, Spawn, or Lure Traps. A form without eyes is blind, and a form without a mouth can‘s speak. A form without limbs or tentacles has a land speed of 0. A form without a mouth may not use devour or Swallow whole.

[Sindri]

Right, nevermind then. Must have missed that. Probably because I haven't gotten a chance to play at 16th+ level yet. Carry on.

[Necroticplague]

Something I've been meaning to bring up for a bit. The no Str or size increases to your worldly guise and no augments to natural weapons that are not features? That's all gone at level 16. Otherworldly guise lets you basically treat your worldly guise as a puppet with a limited number of features...and no lure traps or shifting features or at least that's what I meant when I wrote that ability...
Puppets gain Strong puppet for a Str boost and Engorged Flesh +Large x+Long x increases base size.

Spoiler

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Otherworldly Guise (Ex): An ozodrin of 16th level or higher can force aspects of its true form onto it's worldly guise. As a full-round action an ozodrin may swap the features of it worldly guise for different features. Calculate the worldly guise features as if you were a puppet of your race, do not count features from aberrant feats. The form points need to form such a puppet + 1/10 of your form points may be redistributed into new features. No more than than the starting number of features+ 1 per 5 ozodrin level may be present. Basic eyes count for 1/2. You may not add shifting features, Puppets, Spawn, or Lure Traps. A form without eyes is blind, and a form without a mouth can‘s speak. A form without limbs or tentacles has a land speed of 0. A form without a mouth may not use devour or Swallow whole.

Yes, but if we start adding puppet augments to yourself, we start getting into really weird territory (like using jerk the line for a +6 to dexterity and reflex, and 5-foot step as immediate action, puppet show to make copies of yourself, and missing string to be able to move 10ft from yourself).

[Lix Lorn]

Yes, but if we start adding puppet augments to yourself, we start getting into really weird territory (like using jerk the line for a +6 to dexterity and reflex, and 5-foot step as immediate action, puppet show to make copies of yourself, and missing string to be able to move 10ft from yourself).

And the cthuloid class that breaks sanity and ignores physical laws SHOULDN'T be able to do that?

[Bhu]

that this thread is still going fills me with hope for the future

[StormRaven]

Yes, but if we start adding puppet augments to yourself, we start getting into really weird territory (like using jerk the line for a +6 to dexterity and reflex, and 5-foot step as immediate action, puppet show to make copies of yourself, and missing string to be able to move 10ft from yourself).

Honestly? I don't really see the issues. Going over the augments below.
Mini Version-It's effectively a worse condensed flesh.
Hidden Puppeter-Useless as you can't hide and not hide at the same time as it defeats the purpose.
Jerk the line- It's once a round and lurching or weird movement seems in flavor, think possession horror movies. Finally no more broken than on a main combat puppet.
Appealing- And now my main body is as interesting as my many puppets.
Missing Strings-Might be useful with Puppet Show, but common sense dictates that you cannot be 10ft away from yourself unless you take up more than 10ft.
Puppet Show-Their is a race that has two bodies already.

[Sindri]

Yes, but if we start adding puppet augments to yourself, we start getting into really weird territory...

None of these are more powerful on yourself than on a combat puppet; basically all it does is remove the person pulling the strings so you can focus on being a monster(s).

...and missing string to be able to move 10ft from yourself...

You mortals and your silly euclidean geometry. Why wouldn't I be ten feet away from myself? I can already go through a wall simply by already being on the other side and avoid attacks by failing to be where opponents aim.

[Necroticplague]

Great, now I have an image of using pretending flesh so that it looks like the have a cane on their body, and the cane suddenly pulls them to do jerk the line.

Also, Mini version is actually better than pretending flesh, since small puppets cost significantly less to create than larger puppets.

[Owrtho]

Also, Mini version is actually better than pretending flesh, since small puppets cost significantly less to create than larger puppets.

Arguably, that would make it worse, since it would reduce the amount of points you have to work with, though that may be seen as being up to a DM ruling.

Also, I do plan to work more on this sometime soon. I've just been fairly busy recently.

As a side note though, Magikeeper seems to have overlooked in his post a while back that a feature can only have 1 spike on it at a time, that said, I do feel that the cost of increasing a spikes size should be reduced.

I also plan to add some optional abilities that would mainly be more flavourful than useful (and likely somewhat detrimental) that will be available for those that feel there should be more noticeable drawbacks for becoming an eldritch horror (at least socially).
I also plan to add scaling damage caps for the size increases, as that seems to be a frequent complain of the class being overpowered at high levels. I'm thinking at the moment colossal till level 20, then increasing 1 for every level or 2 after that. Any thoughts?

Also, glad to see this is popular enough to stay on the first page despite my absence.

Owrtho

[Markus Darkmind]

Arguably, that would make it worse, since it would reduce the amount of points you have to work with, though that may be seen as being up to a DM ruling.

Also, I do plan to work more on this sometime soon. I've just been fairly busy recently.

As a side note though, Magikeeper seems to have overlooked in his post a while back that a feature can only have 1 spike on it at a time, that said, I do feel that the cost of increasing a spikes size should be reduced.

I also plan to add some optional abilities that would mainly be more flavourful than useful (and likely somewhat detrimental) that will be available for those that feel there should be more noticeable drawbacks for becoming an eldritch horror (at least socially).
I also plan to add scaling damage caps for the size increases, as that seems to be a frequent complain of the class being overpowered at high levels. I'm thinking at the moment colossal till level 20, then increasing 1 for every level or 2 after that. Any thoughts?

Also, glad to see this is popular enough to stay on the first page despite my absence.

Owrtho

I agree about the spike size, also given it already has a low damage output compared to the other weapons of similar cost.
As for the damage caps, it seems balanced with Colossal at 20 and at least 1 increment every 2 levels after that, I believe... Maybe even 3, but it's epic levels we're talking about after all

[Necroticplague]

Yeah, spikes are a bit weak, here's my proposed fix:

Make it so they default to one size smaller than you (like every other feature does)

Make the Multiple Spikes augment decrease cost (like the small feature augment for the other features does)

As it, you pay 6 form points for 2 points of physical piercing damage to those your grappling. The only reason someone would pick Multiple Spikes is to make use of Quickfire Spikes augment.

[Sindri]

Currently you can add spikes to another feature to increase the damage for a single form point, increasing the damage of whatever attack that is by one. If you started the spikes off at a larger size, it would suddenly be the cheapest way to get a cheap damage boost (though an extra d4 isn't really game breaking). I'd say keep the base size at Fine, but decrease the cost to increase the size by a lot. Maybe even to 1, given that the first three size upgrades give you a grand old half a point of damage increase, on average.

Meanwhile, I've never seen the point of the Multiple Spikes augment. Power-wise it's fairly negligible, since you trade, say, 1d6 for 1d4+1 (slightly better damage when added to spikes up to Small, much worse when added to anything Huge or larger). Flavor-wise, given that every other feature is fairly open-ended, I don't see why you couldn't just refluff the basic spike augment as a group of spikes that act as one weapon/enhancement, with the player's option as to whether they're it's a single spike, a small cluster, or a hedgehog-ish coating. The only possible use I see for it is to circumvent the damage cap by size, but there are much easier ways to do that (currently it costs 5 fp per extra point of damage, by my previous suggestion it'd be 2, but you can already get point-for-point or better elsewhere.)

On a largely unrelated point, I am definitely in favor of more weird features, especially those that give a trade off instead of a direct upgrade. I will probably come back with suggestions when I have a bit more free time.

Edit: Congratulations Owrtho, your thread has been active for a full year, and the class has probably received more consideration than the majority of published classes.

[Owrtho]

Minor update, not much but I finally got around to adding a cap to size increases affecting damage for features. With this I added a minor epic progression bit in the post with the feats, which notes that at level 21 and every odd level thereafter, this cap increases by one size category.
Other than that I reduced the size increase for spike to cost 1 form point. Given that they always default to fine this shouldn't be too inexpensive. Still haven't gotten around to any other plans I have to fix things up though.

Owrtho

[TechnOkami]

Question: Does Imperious Command work with the Ozodrin's Manifest Form ability?

[Zale]

This is a very cool class.

Remembering what features you have where would be a bit annoying though..

[Tvtyrant]

I can't place the Ozodrin's tier, but I would guess 2-3. Is my guess substantiated?

[Destrude]

I can't place the Ozodrin's tier, but I would guess 2-3. Is my guess substantiated?

Been playing one in a Pathfinder game for the last 2 months, and I'd say solidly in the upper tier 3. A lot of it depends on how creative the player is though, I've been finding new tricks even recently that change the way I play the class.

If I'm looking for a class to keep my interest, and I don't want to play a caster, Ozodrin is my new first pick. Very fun without blowing anyone out of the water.

[Tvtyrant]

Been playing one in a Pathfinder game for the last 2 months, and I'd say solidly in the upper tier 3. A lot of it depends on how creative the player is though, I've been finding new tricks even recently that change the way I play the class.

If I'm looking for a class to keep my interest, and I don't want to play a caster, Ozodrin is my new first pick. Very fun without blowing anyone out of the water.

Except melee characters; a specialized eating Ozodrin looks like it can annihilate enemies in melee.

[Owrtho]

Question: Does Imperious Command work with the Ozodrin's Manifest Form ability?

Well, had to look up what Imperious Command did, but based on the wording, while a DM could rule you are able to use it as such, by RAW, it wouldn't, given that it specifies the trigger of demoralizing an opponent which is a specific ability of the intimidation skill.

Also, some in the works optional abilities for the ozodrin (usable at the DMs discretion, or mandate as the case may be). If the DM allows, these could also possibly be used as flaws or something similar by the ozodrin (given they all are more disadvantages than helpful).

Level 1:
Abhorred by Nature (Ex): Ozodrin tend to give of an acute feeling of wrongness. One that while often overlooked by people, is more frequently noticed by animals. Upon encountering an animal or plant creature, the ozodrin must make a Handle Animal check (DC 10 + class level), or find it to be one step closer to hostile than normal (note that like spot checks this is generally made by the DM). At level 10 this increases to 2 steps closer to hostile if the check is failed and 1 step closer if the pass the check, while they must pass by 5 or more to avoid the effects. At level 20 these increase to 3 steps if failed, 2 steps if passed, 1 step if passed by 5 or more, and 0 steps if passed by 10 or more.
Any class which advances features advances this ability as well.

Notes on the above ability: I realize that handle animals isn't a class skill for ozodrin. That is intentional, and if I didn't use handle animal checks, then the effect would be automatic. May adjust the DCs still. DMs can also add magical beasts & elementals at their on discretion to the list of effected creatures as they would likely be similarly attuned to nature. Thoughts & suggestions are welcome.

Level 1:
Uneasy Guise (Ex): An ozodrin's true nature is its natural appearance, and hiding it can be difficult at times. When in its worldly guise, an ozodrin takes a penalty to will saves equal to 1 + 1/4 its class level rounded down due to the focus needed to hide its nature. In addition, whenever it makes a will save in its worldly guise, it must also make a second will save (DC 5 + class level) or fail to maintain its worldly guise, an unwillingly manifest its true nature. If an ozodrin manifests its true nature in such a fashion, it is unable to shield others from the fear effect caused by its manifestation. It must also save against unwillingly manifesting its true nature upon receiving a critical hit, being reduced to 0 hit points or less, and the DMs discretion.
At all times the ozodrin must have at least 1/3rd its form points (minimum 3) toward features and augments.
Any class which advances features advances this ability as well.

Notes on the above ability: Needs a better name, and I'm not sure if this is the best way to accomplish the desired effect (so far as what triggers the unwilling manifestation and the save against it). Part of the idea behind this is for people who feel that the ozodrin's ability to easily turn off its being a monster is problematic flavour wise, or feel it should be harder to hide being an otherworldly abomination. This also allows for more easily having it be like a curse or the like in game (cursed with_awesome perhaps, but still). Suggestions or recommendations for improvement are welcome.

Level 1:
Uncanny Appearance (Ex): While able to imitate their original form, ozodrin cannot do so perfectly, and it becomes harder as they become less what they once were and more out of touch with what is normal unless constant practice is made. Upon entering its worldly guise, an ozodrin must make a disguise check to which it gains a bonus equal to 10 - class level (this becomes a penalty at higher levels). Any creature seeing the ozodrin while in its worldly guise makes a spot check to against the disguise check to detect any imperfections or inaccuracies that mark the form. The the check is passed, the ozodrin gains a penalty to diplomacy checks equal to the amount it was passed by with regards to that creature, as well as bluff checks to conceal its nature. An ozodrin may choose to take a 10 on this check, but doing so requires a mirror and that the ozodrin spend 1 minute per 2 class levels in forming its worldly guise, and must start over again if interrupted. Taking a 20 may be done as well, but instead requires a mirror and 1 minute per class level.
Any class which advances features advances this ability as well.

Notes on the above ability: Not sure if the wording is the best, but it gets the idea across I hope. Most likely this check would be made without the ozodrin knowing the result (unless it decided to make a spot check in the mirror), to prevent them from just trying until they get it right. suggestions and recommendations are welcome.

Owrtho

[Destrude]

Except melee characters; a specialized eating Ozodrin looks like it can annihilate enemies in melee.

Sorta... so far I've found that Devour is about as fast as just wacking people with Bane-enchanted tentacles, and it focuses all your attention on one guy pretty much. Until you can get the grapple check needed to snag multiple people (harder than it sounds), I usually just hit people in the face.

Although Swallow Whole and a few mouths in the stomach works pretty good.

[Tvtyrant]

Sorta... so far I've found that Devour is about as fast as just wacking people with Bane-enchanted tentacles, and it focuses all your attention on one guy pretty much. Until you can get the grapple check needed to snag multiple people (harder than it sounds), I usually just hit people in the face.

Although Swallow Whole and a few mouths in the stomach works pretty good.

Have you been using grapple feats and items? Titan's Grip gloves + Improved Grapple nets you +12 on grapples, add in Large and you get +16 on top of strength.