Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[Coidzor]

Alright thanks, one more question, back on the subject of primary/secondary attacks. My DM reminded me that Pathfinder (the system we're using) has a different ruling for those than 3.5, so when adapting an Ozodrin over to Pathfinder how then should I treat the natural attacks from other sources? I think this is what caused the confusion in the first place actually.

As far as I can tell, if a natural weapon counts as "primary" on that table, it attacks with full strength bonus to damage and to-hit as opposed to taking a -5(-2 with multiattack) to hit and only allowing half strength bonus to damage. Unless the creature is using a manufactured weapon or using an unarmed strike in addition to the natural weapons, in which case all natural weapons are considered secondary natural weapons.

But the specific text of ozodrin says they're considered primary unless they're specifically called out as secondary.

All of an ozodrin‘s natural attacks gained from features are considered primary attacks unless otherwise noted. If the ozodrin has natural attacks from sources other than its class levels, such as its race, it may instead choose to use its racial natural primary attack(s) instead. If an ozodrin makes natural attacks and attacks with a weapon, the natural attacks are considered secondary.

My understanding of the interaction here is that the Pathfinder changes allow racial/non-Ozodrin derived natural weapons that are primary natural weapons to be used as primary natural weapons in addition to the primary natural weapons granted by Ozodrin. Either that, or you can only use your Ozodrin-derived or non-Ozodrin-derived natural attacks in a given round, not both sets, so the interaction is that they can't interact.

Otherwise, when it comes to Ozodrin-derived natural weapons, it's specific trumps general when it comes to if they're primary or secondary natural weapons, so if an Ozodrin-derived natural weapon is listed as secondary in its entry when it is designated as a primary natural weapon in the PF chart, it counts as secondary due to the specific case of being from the Ozodrin class.

Now, in adapting the class to PF, one might play around with which ones are specifically called out as primary or secondary.

[adversityarchit]

I think given that the Pathfinder rules tend to be more forgiving in terms of how many primary natural attacks you can have than 3.5 (ie as many as are listed primary on the chart), my DM is ruling it that I can go with the best interpretation as far as number of primary attacks. Which is pretty damn awesome and what I was hoping for.

Thanks for your help!

[adversityarchit]

I have a question about the Shadowed Horror feat. Is it possible to get 0-level mysteries? The way it's worded would suggest that they are either unattainable, or all free since they would cost 0 form points each.

[qazzquimby]

Commanding a zombie general could work, they boost your undead control to triple digits, Swarmlord PC's could be interesting, same with having a hulking hurler throwing things out of your mouth.

I would be very interested in the first, but I can't find zombie general anywhere. Where's it from?

Edit: Neevermind, its a spell.

[Hanuman]

I'm playing around with a radically different approach to the ozodrin's flavor and mechanics and I would appreciate some input, it will likely turn into a pathfinderesque ACF or a spinoff class.


Basically what I want is for each feature of the ozodrin to be independently sentient and connected as a hive-mind.

Take for example the spell Dancing Chains http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vi...g-chains--234/

Essentially, 1 feature/level can be controlled independently, using 1/2 BAB + Dex of the caster without bonuses, ect.

A fighter however must dedicate a FRA for multiple attacks, so an obvious datapoint would be to severely limit the amount of attacks made as a SA and allow them all as a FRA.

Kurapika from Hunter X Hunter, Doctor Octopus, Yura of the Hair from Inuyasha, The Phantom Limbs from Elfenlied, The main character from Basalisk (who else)?

Question!: How does the balance relate to ozodrin if you were to have features that don't damage the user when attacked, and each feature may grapple as if a separate creature?


In-Thread Draft for ACF Shell
-----------
TETHER 3.P Class

• HD6
• BAB 1/2
• Fort Bad Ref Bad Will Bad
• 4 Skillpoints (12CS)
• Light Armor No Shields
• No more attacks than 1/2lvl + Int
• All Class-Based Attacks Considered Primary
• Gain 1 questionably visible intangible tether per level, each tether can be individually controlled but only interacts with unattended objects unless otherwise stated.
• As a swift action make all tethers tangible or intangible.
• Limited combat maneuver usage with tethers, using your CMB and CMD.
• Each tether may lift or control 2lbs/level² (2*Level*Level) of weight, you may use multiple tethers to lift heavier objects.

-----------

Some things up to tackle:
-How long are the tethers at any given level?
-By picking up objects how does one scale it's improvised weapon damage? (I want this to work similar to teramach actually).
-Picking up slippery objects I want to be more difficult by wrapping it around several times, but I also want tethers to grow sort of harpoon things to attack objects and allies, easily grabbing onto them and swinging them around on successful damage.
-I want this to be an assassin type class (not necessarily a full grappler utility like ozodrin). I want damage to be increased by critical hits more than anything but I also feel the pull for nonlethal options. I want the tethers to have a wide range in options such as being as thin as hair or be as thick as a galleon anchor and chain. I want to add different heads and protrusions along the tethers such as dancing chains' barbs or huge morning stars.
-I'm thinking Lurk is a good parallel to draw from but I've never made one, any tips with that?
-I may just go for an alternate feature system to manage this.

[thethird]

So I made an Ozodrin / Gramarie PrC here *runs away*

[Necroticplague]

So I made an Ozodrin / Gramarie PrC here *runs away*

Hmmm... Interesting take on it, contrasting with the last try at the concept, one of which is a generalist.

[thethird]

Yeah I actually hadn't seen that one before starting I hope the prc looks cool though. I'm using constructivity which is related to planes and hearts and well ozodrin can work well on that.

[Qwertystop]

Anyone here reading City of Angles? I'm trying to figure out whether something like a Picasso (probably mostly stable, like Kelsey) could be simulated with the Ozodrin. Any ideas?

If you haven't read it, Picassos are basically people wrapped up in spacial distortions and reality-inconsistencies and insanity and broken//vortices//madness//what's going on//just another dull day//help what's going on.

(I'm not good at writing the voice yet)

[Draken]

Anyone here reading City of Angles? I'm trying to figure out whether something like a Picasso (probably mostly stable, like apparently a spoiler?) could be simulated with the Ozodrin. Any ideas?

If you haven't read it, Picassos are basically people wrapped up in spacial distortions and reality-inconsistencies and insanity and broken//vortices//madness//what's going on//just another dull day//help what's going on.

(I'm not good at writing the voice yet)

True Xenotheurges would probably fit better, I think.

[Qwertystop]

True Xenotheurges would probably fit better, I think.

Hmmm... looked it up, and... um. The class abilities and fluff fit really well, as does the idea that I had of what Breaches and Incursions might be like before I read the individual descriptions, but the actual Breaches and Incursions are less so.

Also, it's incomplete and unlikely to be completed any time soon.

Thanks for the tip, though - it's cleared up a good bit of what exactly I want to get out of the character, having looked at and evaluated a possibility. Will still take a while before I can deparse? antiparse? spell it out, though.

[AuraTwilight]

Also, it's incomplete and unlikely to be completed any time soon.

Er...what? As far as I can tell, the True Xenotheurgist is totally complete. It just has a bunch of spare placeholder posts that never got filled.

[Draken]

Er...what? As far as I can tell, the True Xenotheurgist is totally complete. It just has a bunch of spare placeholder posts that never got filled.

Two murmurs were never finished. But yes, several of the lower rank breaches are pretty underwhelming.

[Qwertystop]

Two murmurs were never finished. But yes, several of the lower rank breaches are pretty underwhelming.

Not just that - it's more that... hm. It's that the abilities are very much magic. Reading Angles, Picassos, surrounded by distortions and weirdness though they are, mostly just hit you with stuff. Yes, it's stuff that shouldn't exist and stuff that's warped beyond recognition, and getting close to them twists you out of shape a bit too much to handle, but the point is that the actual danger, though twisted, is very firmly physical. Xenotheurgy doesn't seem to fit that very well, while the Ozodrin does.

It's like... the True Xenotheurgist is the Far Realms' Wizard, and the Ozodrin is the Far Realms' Barbarian.

[Hanuman]

Qwerty, would you mind posting a link to City of Angles?

I can't really help otherwise, I'm not willing to attempt an update on xenotheurgy until at least Ozodrin2's core build is done.

In the meantime feel free to consider making a XT archetype (or even just a draft of it) for ozodrin2 and I'll work it into the class.

[Qwertystop]

Qwerty, would you mind posting a link to City of Angles?

I can't really help otherwise, I'm not willing to attempt an update on xenotheurgy until at least Ozodrin2's core build is done.

In the meantime feel free to consider making a XT archetype (or even just a draft of it) for ozodrin2 and I'll work it into the class.

It's here, but no big deal - mostly an idle question, there's no specific game the character would be for.

[Hanuman]

It's here, but no big deal - mostly an idle question, there's no specific game the character would be for.

Well, here's some questions:
-How much do you want to effect external space, and how long-term do you want the effects out from just your character?
-What changes need to be made to the ozodrin to accomplish that?

If you want to build an archetype follow these steps:
1) Form a general idea, think about the ozodrin and imagine a few changes within the context of description or execution of the class.
2) Figure out if any of the changes can be accomplished better with small tweaks, such as alternative rulings, features or feats.
3) If the changes need a larger change, to the point where it makes sense to start adding, removing and changing class features then continue on.
4) Remove any class features that neither fit mechanically nor contextually.
5) Change any class features that fit mechanically but not contextually.
6) Add class features to replace those that have been removed.
7) Make sure any remaining class features still function in the new model.

[Qwertystop]

Well, here's some questions:
-How much do you want to effect external space, and how long-term do you want the effects out from just your character?
-What changes need to be made to the ozodrin to accomplish that?

If you want to build an archetype follow these steps:
1) Form a general idea, think about the ozodrin and imagine a few changes within the context of description or execution of the class.
2) Figure out if any of the changes can be accomplished better with small tweaks, such as alternative rulings, features or feats.
3) If the changes need a larger change, to the point where it makes sense to start adding, removing and changing class features then continue on.
4) Remove any class features that neither fit mechanically nor contextually.
5) Change any class features that fit mechanically but not contextually.
6) Add class features to replace those that have been removed.
7) Make sure any remaining class features still function in the new model.

I honestly think I can do it well enough with fluff (for example, Swallow Whole just needs to lose any hint of being biological - you're surrounding them and you're bigger on the inside) and roleplay (a jitter when Worldly). I was more wondering if anyone else who had read it had ideas on specific implementation than asking for an ACF.

About the only thing I can't find in the class that might be useful is some sort of semi-incorporeality to represent being a cloud of thematic junk rather than a single solid creature - that'd be being able to share a space with other creatures or objects, but still attack and be attacked. Looking around, that would be covered by a continuous Blink effect that cannot be used while Worldly and cannot be disabled while manifested. Unfortunately, that's kind of high-power unless the usage limitations are enough for a significant discount.

[DracoDei]

I honestly think I can do it well enough with fluff (for example, Swallow Whole just needs to lose any hint of being biological - you're surrounding them and you're bigger on the inside) and roleplay (a jitter when Worldly). I was more wondering if anyone else who had read it had ideas on specific implementation than asking for an ACF.

About the only thing I can't find in the class that might be useful is some sort of semi-incorporeality to represent being a cloud of thematic junk rather than a single solid creature - that'd be being able to share a space with other creatures or objects, but still attack and be attacked. Looking around, that would be covered by a continuous Blink effect that cannot be used while Worldly and cannot be disabled while manifested. Unfortunately, that's kind of high-power unless the usage limitations are enough for a significant discount.

Blink imposes the same miss chances on enemies as on you I think. Since I would think the worldly guise isn't much use in combat, I would actually call that not TOO bad. Maybe add something about it screwing up your spells so they have a significant chance of targeting you instead of any enemy (or an enemy instead of yourself/an ally). That way you don't get Variant!Ozodrin 1/Wizard X pulling shenanigans with summoning or the like.

Never mind, see below.

[Qwertystop]

Blink imposes the same miss chances on enemies as on you I think. Since I would think the worldly guise isn't much use in combat, I would actually call that not TOO bad. Maybe add something about it screwing up your spells so they have a significant chance of targeting you instead of any enemy (or an enemy instead of yourself/an ally). That way you don't get Variant!Ozodrin 1/Wizard X pulling shenanigans with summoning or the like.

It has the same failure chance on your spells as on your attacks, but both are lower than on attacks against you. Details below.

Spoiler: Summary of what Blink and Greater Blink do

Show

Blink gives 50% miss chance to attacks against you, 20% to those you make. The chance against you drops to 20% if the enemy can either see or hit ethereal creatures, and goes away completely if they can do both. Individually targeted spells have the same 50%, but it's all or nothing there, because for those it's not as much a question of aim as of applicability. Again, 20% chance on your own spells. It also allows moving through solid objects, but there's a 50% chance per 5 feet that you go solid, get shunted out, and take damage. Finally, you move at 3/4 speed while blinking (and fall at half speed). So it's not without penalties.

Greater Blink removes the miss chance from your own spells and attacks, and changes the 50%-per-5-feet chance of failure while moving through things into a guaranteed-if-you're-in-there-at-the-end-of-your-turn-but-otherwise-no-risk failure. It also adds the ability to ready an action (what type is unspecified) to automatically blink away from any attack. The slowing is still there. If this version was granted, I'd probably remove the readied action bit (depending on how late in the game it was given, of course).

Wouldn't have to be a first-level ability either - maybe you start discorporating at first level, but it only becomes meaningful enough to have a crunch effect around sixth level, and you get enough control over it for it to be Greater Blink at tenth or so?

(those numbers picked because that's when Sorcerers get the relevant spells. Could drop them to fifth and ninth to match up with Wizards, or raise to seventh and fourteenth to match with bards, depending on balance point.)

[DracoDei]

I sit corrected.

[Qwertystop]

I sit corrected.

Yeah, so.. given that:
A) You had a good suggestion for the slightly-wrong interpretation;
and
B) You've got a good bit of homebrew under your belt;

Any suggestions for how it actually works?

[Hanuman]

Flowing Shape (Ex): You become a mixture of corporeal and non-corporeal.
•Your body becomes neither formed nor formless, it appears to be a mixture of liquid or gas.
•You gain a displacement effect, attacks and spells that effect a single target have a 10% miss chance, this works on spells such as magic missile but not on effects like fireball.
•This effect increases to 25% while attacking, casting, ect. defensively or 50% as a full defense action.

Uncertain Shape (Ex): The physics of your body don't follow the same rules anymore.
•Because you are able to subtly manipulate your body's physics you gain a +2 bonus to CMD and a bonus equal to half your ozodrin level to Acrobatic checks.
•When making stealth checks you also blur yourself, granting +4 to disguise.
•Improve your dodge bonus to AC by 1.

These mechanics may appeal to you.

I've been looking into it and would like to colab. an archetype for ozodrin remix, it might take a while but I think it would be really interesting to have more of a subtle spacial disruption effect going on to the point where it's harmful.

Things like the manifest causing different effects, causing a Sickened condition, and drawing from the malshaper to warp space sounds nice.

If you've played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and seen the film ctankep then there are some great ideas in those.

[Azdoine]

So I can't help but notice that several of the Medicine Maker augments don't have proper names, the spike augments which buff Int, Wis, Cha, Dex, & Str. In addition, the one name we're given for the con-booster, Invigorating Restorative, seems inaccurate. It's not a restorative, because 'restoration' returns something to a former condition, and the buffs are just that, buffs. They function regardless of your current condition or whatever condition you might have been in the past.

I'd suggest (and please take my suggestion with a grain of salt, I'm not an authority by any stretch of the definition) replacing 'restorative' with something generic, like 'concoction'. I can't think of names for the mental & dexterity boosting augments, but 'adrenalising concoction' seemed appropriate for the str-booster.

[Necroticplague]

I'd suggest (and please take my suggestion with a grain of salt, I'm not an authority by any stretch of the definition) replacing 'restorative' with something generic, like 'concoction'. I can't think of names for the mental & dexterity boosting augments, but 'adrenalising concoction' seemed appropriate for the str-booster.

Personally, I'd go with:
Anabolic-STR
Amphematic-DEX
Opiodal-CON
Nootropic-INT
Antipsychotic-WIS
Depressant-CHA

(really reaching for those last two, much more sure of first 4)

[Magikeeper]

Is Owrtho still about? I wish to ask permission to post my own version of the Ozodrin, which will only be a slightly modified version of the current one. There are just a bunch of corner edits I've wanted to make for a very long time*. Maybe also utilize some of feature simplifications the remix uses. I intend to keep it fairly close to this one though. Proper credit will be given, etc. The posting would be on another forum as I don't want to flood this one with different Ozodrin versions.

*Like finally removing the references to the old devour in primary stomach, fixing the Time-stomach epic feat, simplifying budding body, etc.

[Hanuman]

Main Post
Last Activity: 02-13-2014 04:35 PM

But

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172358
Last edited by Owrtho : 02-08-2014 at 12:04 AM.

I don't honestly know if he's lost interest in Ozodrin, I haven't got a response in a long long time.

I'd be happy to collab. any changes you wish or help you work on the next class posted elsewhere, let me know.

[Magikeeper]

Right, mostly bumping this as it lost a fair bit of time during the forum revamp. I suppose I'll be posting my altered version on this thread for now. I don't really think Owrtho would mind me posting the altered version on a different thread but.. eh.

Not all-inclusive list of changes I intend to make:
> Reword Primary Stomach to make it less wordy and remove confusing references to the old devour.
> Redo/simplify Budding body to be more like the 3.P version - it just eats far to much RL time messing around with the thing as it currently stands.
> Reduce the issue of a single feature adding a laundry list of small benefits to unrelated statistics. Adding/removing several features that are doing 5+ different things can get annoying
>> Change the self-stacking augments so that their per-feature limit can be removed. I.E., make them a tad more expensive.
>> Make the [Exclusive] tag special eyes are using a general part of features - mostly to stick on self-stackers.
> Change how rapid form works - maybe use the 3.P idea. Changing stackability will make it much easier to swap out features as it is.
> Fix the time stomach epic level feat.

> A variety of additional feature tweaks.
>> Make use of the "many" idea used in 3.P
>> Alter the eye feature to reduce laundry list bonus issues. Will effect ability/desire to mass a 1fp feature at level 1, but I think an cheap telescopic vision augment (1:10ft) would fill out any remaining points. Spot check scaling will likely be a bit worse as a side effect.
>> Rewrite the puppet feature, combining the simplicity of the 3.P version with some important aspects of the 3.5 version. Probably remove the 1/2 cost stuff going on. Intent is to have the feature still function the same way, just take less RL time to create. Otherworldy guise will be tweaked to still work virtually exactly the same as it does now, including cost decrease.
>> Possibly rewrite the spawn feature to be more like the 3.P version. Granted, this would be a big change.
>> Tweak stuff that doesn't really need to be done incrementally - paying 1fp for every piece of furniture in your stomach is not worth the bookkeeping.
>> Maybe create some aberrant feats that allow early access to the stomach/spawn like that spike feat. I won't be replacing the features with bonus feats though, and the early access stuff won't give level dependent augments. If so, Stomach feat would be level 8 minimum (Same level as swallow whole). Dunno what level for spawn, I'll see what it looks like. Might not do puppet, you get it within the range of most playgroups and it would be very strong early on if the disguise check bonus remains high-level competitive (which it will)


> Other stuff maybe.

Aside from the eye and spawn difference the capabilities of an Ozodrin using the current 3.5 version and my altered version should be mostly the same.

[Hanuman]

I'll bump this thread from time to time as it leaves credit to all the work Owrtho has done.

Ozodrin (Version 2.1)

[Owrtho]

Right, not much to say here at the moment having only recently returned to the forum and not yet gone through everything. That said, I thought I'd note I've gone through and fixed the tables for the ozodrin and all of the ozodrin PRCs I made myself.

Also, I figured I'd note I don't mind Magikeeper making a new thread for his altered version.

owrtho