"Perfect" Feats

[nedz]

Improved Initiative is actually campaignDM dependant.
I played in one game where every encounter was an ambush, even when we saw them coming from like miles away Almost everyone had Improved Initiative. In more imaginative games its less useful.

Why has no one mentioned Shield Proficiency ?
Or Simple Weapon Proficiency ?
Or Martial Weapon Proficiency ?
You normally get these as class features, but you can take them as feats; not that I'm aware of a class which doesn't get, at least, Simple Weapon Proficiency.

[Corporate M]

not that I'm aware of a class which doesn't get, at least, Simple Weapon Proficiency.

To my knowledge most prestige classes don't startout with weapon proficietcies, and commoner only gets proficientcy with one simple weapon...

Which gives me an idea...

[Runestar]

To my knowledge most prestige classes don't startout with weapon proficietcies, and commoner only gets proficientcy with one simple weapon...

Which gives me an idea...

Prcs are essentially extensions of your base class. It makes sense that they shouldn't grant weapon/armour proficiencies, as the player is expected to continue with whatever proficiencies he started out with.

[Greensleeve]

When it comes to great feats, I'm gonna have to say Knowledge Devotion. Scales with your level, grants meaningful (kinda) bonuses, usable by pretty much everyone (with an extra feat and some skill points).

Though I must also agree with DragoonWraith on the Binding, Incarnum and ToB feats. They are very tasty.

[--Lime--]

not that I'm aware of a class which doesn't get, at least, Simple Weapon Proficiency.

Druid doesn't... but then they just wildshape or cast or summon. Or have their companion do the attacking in melee.

[Amphetryon]

If I remember correctly, Run is an important feat in several Leap Attack builds.

[Kurald Galain]

Actually, as-is most Metamagic is too costly. Even Quicken, which is godly because the action economy is the quickest route to power, is very difficult to use with +4 spell levels.

I second this. I find that unless you have a specific combo in mind, or can use metamagic reduction, you're almost always better off finding a higher-level variant to the spell you would be metamagicking.

Also, PHB2 has several immediate spells, which tend to be more practical than Quicken.

[Zombimode]

If I remember correctly, Run is an important feat in several Leap Attack builds.

Uh.. how? Both Run and Charge are full round actions. At least how I understand the rules they cant be combined.

[hamishspence]

It grants +4 to all Jump checks that have "a running start"

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#run

A running start does not actually require that you be running- only that you move at least 20 ft in a straight line.

Hence- it's useful.

[Amphetryon]

Uh.. how? Both Run and Charge are full round actions. At least how I understand the rules they cant be combined.

I'm too lazy to go digging them up, but I recall at least one that combined the ability to use Run with the ToB Maneuver that makes it a Swift action to jump. By increasing running speed, the distance jumped increased, which increased damage.

Charge may also be taken as a Standard Action when limited to a single action in a round. This is quite useful in some cases.

[hamishspence]

I thought jump checks were always based on your speed?

Hence, while a guy with 40 ft speed and Run, can move as fast as a guy with 50 ft speed and no Run feat, the guy with 50 ft speed gets a big speed bonus to all Jump checks?

Not that it matters much- since the bonus from Run, is equal to the +4 bonus from an extra 10 ft of speed- hence they will be equal.

[Amphetryon]

I thought jump checks were always based on your speed?

Hence, while a guy with 40 ft speed and Run, can move as fast as a guy with 50 ft speed and no Run feat, the guy with 50 ft speed gets a big speed bonus to all Jump checks?

Not that it matters much- since the bonus from Run, is equal to the +4 bonus from an extra 10 ft of speed- hence they will be equal.

Hence my note about my own laziness.

[Thespianus]

By increasing running speed, the distance jumped increased, which increased damage.

But Leap Attack doesn't increase the damage depending on how far you jump?

It's a flat "double if you jump 10ft or more", isn't it?

[hamishspence]

Maybe its combining the Falling damage rules with Leap Attack? Use a Jump check to jump so high, you inflict damage on the target as you come down as if you were a falling object?

[Amphetryon]

Maybe its combining the Falling damage rules with Leap Attack? Use a Jump check to jump so high, you inflict damage on the target as you come down as if you were a falling object?

Combined with that +4 to Jump checks with a running start for better chances of success, particularly at low levels, that seems likely.

[gbprime]

The "perfect feat" is one that gives your character a new capability. Merely adding to an existing capability is nice, but tends to be inefficient. +1 to something feats should be taken only as pre-requisites to a PrC or feat that gives you a new ability or lets you own the world.

Examples of what I consider to be "perfect feats"...

Extraordinary Spell Aim
Minor Shapeshift (and select other reserve feats)
Knowledge Devotion (and select other devotion feats)
Robilar's Gambit
Three Mountains
Daring Outlaw (and select other feats that increase the value of multi-classing)
Power Attack
Cleave
Weapon Finesse
Leadership
Whirlwind Attack (were it not for the pre-req chain)

[Gnaeus]

In most campaigns:

Scribe Scrolls
Craft Wands
Craft Wondrous Items.

Good for combat. Good for utility. The last one especially can be good for party balance if used to craft for weaker builds.

Unless your DM never gives gold or downtime, in which case they are kinda useless for anyone outside Eberron.

[gbprime]

And don't forget to retrain Craft Wands into Craft Staff when you're higher level. Same price, more utility, get to use your stat mod and caster level.

[Person_Man]

Here's my generic list of useful feats. (There's not a lot of metamagic on it, because those are obvious choices for full casters, and thus I don't even bother keeping them on my list).

• Abominable Form
• Acheron Flurry
• Ancestral Relic
• Animal Devotion
• Arcane Schooling
• Arcane Strike
• Awesome Smite
• Battle Blessing
• Battle Jump
• Bind Vestige
• Bloodsoaked Intimidate
• Brutal Strike
• Celestial Mount
• Chosen of Evil
• Close Quarters Fighting
• Combat Acrobat
• Combat Panache
• Combat Focus + Combat Vigor + Combat Stability
• Confound the Big Folk
• Contagious Paralysis
• Dark Speech
• Dark Whispers
• Darkstalker
• Deepspawn
• Deformity (Obese)
• Deformity (Madness)
• Dilate Aura
• Dire Flail Smash
• Dive for Cover
• Divine Fortune
• Divine Defiance
• Divine Might
• Divine Shield
• Double Hit
• Dreadful Wrath
• Dragonfire Strike
• Dragon Tail
• Dragon Trainer
• Earth Devotion
• Eilservs School
• Elusive Target
• Extraordinary Concentration
• Evasive Reflexes
• Evil Blessing
• Fearless
• Fearless Destiny
• Force of Personality
• Goad
• Heart of Incarnum
• Hold the Line
• Improved Familiar
• Imperious Command
• Inhuman Reach
• Insane Defiance
• Intuitive Attack
• Karmic Strike
• Knockback
• Knowledge Devotion
• Leadership
• Leap Attack
• Lightning Mace
• Lunatic Insight
• Maiming Strike
• Mage Slayer
• Magic Device Attunement
• Martial Stance
• Martial Study
• Mercantile Background
• Mobile Spellcasting
• Midnight Augmentation
• Minor Shapeshift
• Nymph’s Kiss
• Obtain Familiar
• Pierce Magical Concealment
• Parrying Shield
• Persistent Refusal
• Pious Defiance
• Power Attack
• Practiced Manifester
• Prehensile Tail
• Pushback
• Quell the Profane
• Rampaging Bull Rush
• Resounding Blow
• Reaping Talons
• Robilar’s Gambit
• Saddleback
• Sand Dancer
• Sand Snare
• Scorpion’s Grasp
• Shards of Granite
• Shield Slam
• Shield Ward
• Shock Trooper
• Slave to Evil
• Smiting Power
• Smooth Talk
• Snowflake Wardance
• Song of the White Raven
• Sociable Personality
• Spirit Sense
• Staggering Strike
• Star Spawn
• Stone Power
• Stormguard Warrior
• Sword of the Arcane Order
• Steadfast Determination
• Supernatural Instincts
• Tashalatora
• Tiger Blooded
• Tireless
• Three Mountains Style
• Tomb Tainted Soul
• Touch of Golden Ice
• Travel Devotion
• Undead Empathy
• Vow of Peace
• Willing Deformity + Deformity (Tall)
• Winged Warrior

[Amphetryon]

I don't recognize 'Pushback'; source, please?

[Person_Man]

I don't recognize 'Pushback'; source, please?

Miniatures Handbook pg 27.

The poor man’s Knockback (which requires Powerful Build). Once per round when you hit an adjacent enemy of your size or smaller, you can Bull Rush him 5 feet (strait back or diagonally) and move into his space as a free action. The movement doesn't provoke AoO. I've found that it can be very useful in dungeons or other confined spaces, especially when combined with the Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature (massive bonus damage when you Bull Rush someone into a wall or solid object, from Dungeonscape).

[Psyx]

"Suddenly, the PC is running around with four different NPCs, all under his control."

What - like 1st ed?


"Just for the record, is everyone in agreement that Run is probably the worse of the Feats, nigh unto useless"

Martial weapon proficiency is pretty dire if you are insane enough to buy it as a feat. You get proficiency with ONE weapon FFS! This has to be the worst feat there is, in my book.


The '+2 to 2 skills' feats are festering toe-cheese. I've never seen anyone take one of these feats, except as a pre-req.
Skill focus at +3 on one skill isn't fantastic either, to say the least.

Expensive metamagics are very costly 'as is', and many aren't worth it unless you have blag that makes them more viable.

Endurance is pretty bad. Allowing you to sleep in armour (an ability replicated by a magic item worth about 1000gp, as I recall) is the best thing about it.

The feats allowing a daily use of a few cantrips are flavourful...but bad.

No mention yet for Mobility. A truly dire feat. Sure... you could waltz though a threatened area at +4AC... or just tumble.


Combat casting is pretty bad as written. Even Skill Focus: Concentration is a better bet.

All of the item creation feats are just a way for you to make everyone else better at the cost of your own XP and time. No thanks.

I kinda view the Knowledge devotion as a bit too good. It eclipses the vast majority of feats published, which is kind of a shame.

Someone already mentioned close quarter combat. A lovely feat that's in no way broken.

[Draz74]

I still think some metamagic is nicely balanced "out of the box." Quicken ... is often mentioned as an automatic staple feat for Practical Optimization of Casters, even when no metamagic reducers are involved. Extend is terribly useful; the only reason it might not be a worthwhile feat is because of the accessibility of Metamagic Rods. And Empower ... hmm, I guess I'm not 100% positive whether that one is worth it without reducers.

Spring attack is not a bad feat, but its requirements could be less steep, IMO.

True -- it would be a decent (but not great) feat if its prerequisites weren't so lame.

I am a little divided over feats such as weapon finesse and steadfast determination. They are good, but everyone with a much better dex or con score respectively will surely take them, making them feat sinks. IMO, there shouldn't be a feat which you feel your class absolutely has to take in order to function properly. However, they can help reduce MAD. Or perhaps that should be a feature already inbuilt into the stat system?

I've seen a number of builds with much better CON than WIS that still can't manage to fit in two feats for Steadfast Determination. And the ones that do fit it in, I feel, have made an appropriate sacrifice for what they're gaining.

On a more general level, I think MAD should be built into the system (and all classes should be MAD), and that there's nothing wrong with feats that reduce it. I prefer this system over something more like 4e where the stat system comes with a lot of built-in anti-MAD.

It is interesting to note that if everyone takes improved initiative (including monsters), that is as good as no one taking it at all. Another feat sink?

No, because not everyone takes it.

Why has no one mentioned Shield Proficiency ?
Or Simple Weapon Proficiency ?
Or Martial Weapon Proficiency ?
You normally get these as class features, but you can take them as feats; not that I'm aware of a class which doesn't get, at least, Simple Weapon Proficiency.

You're not aware of the Monk or Wizard?

And they haven't been mentioned because, unless you get them for free as class features, they're terrible feats. And this thread is about "perfect" feats.

Though I must also agree with DragoonWraith on the Binding, Incarnum and ToB feats. They are very tasty.

Binding feats are terrible. I can't imagine why DragoonWraith was praising them, unless it's only for their fluff value.

[Amphetryon]

Don't some folks use 2 Binding Feats to get into Anima Mage as a straight Wizard? Seems like that's handy, at least.

[Optimystik]

Once again, it falls to me to bring Psionics into the discussion.

The XPH gave us plenty of great feats (including non-psionic ones) that I think could fit the criteria given in the OP.

Part of what makes psionic feats (including metapsionics) more balanced is changing their resource. Instead of beinig powered by uses/day, they are effectively powered by move actions, resulting in a much more tactical at-will system.

So, to expand the list of "balanced feats":

- Metapsionics: far, far better balanced than metamagic. DragoonWraith's assessment of metamagic was absolutely right - As-is, the mechanic is either too expensive to be useful, or too cheap to be balanced; there is very little middle ground. However, I think I can write enough on the subject of why metapsionics are more balanced than metamagic to take up its own thread, so I will leave it at that for now.
- Body Fuel: an excellent example of a balanced feat. Gives a great benefit [PP] in exchange for a cost that actually matters (physical ability scores); then it makes sure that it plugs the loopholes by which cheese may enter. (You must be alive, you cannot prevent or prematurely heal ability burn, and you can't even use it while in someone else's body. Yes, they even thought of that!) Simple, elegant, effective.
- Deadly Precision: Draz has shown me the error of my ways on this one. I probably should have compared it to Craven.
- Expanded Knowledge: At first, this one looks weak. A whole feat for one power? No thanks. Oh, it can grab them off anyone's list? Now we're talking. Why yes, I'll have Astral Construct and a side of Schism, thanks.
- Hidden Talent: as above, you learn a power from anyone's list; except it has to be first level. But the advantages are that it's not subject to the "highest level -1" rule (so you can use this to learn Astral Construct, Synesthete, Compression, Expansion etc. at first level no matter what your class is); you get 2 free PP to manifest the power with, which get added to your pool; and you become psionic if you weren't before. This lets you grab psionic goodies (like feats and certain PrCs) without actually having levels in a psionic class, or being a psionic race. (Note: use this and NOT Wild Talent.)
- Overchannel: Take untyped damage, boost your ML. Versatile, straightforward and again, gets better as you level (more HP).
- Practiced Caster/Manifester: This is well worth a feat, and every caster should have had the choice of a similar ability. (Practiced Invoker, Practiced Initiator, Practiced Meldshaper etc.)
- Psionic Mastery - Take 10 on ML checks. This is solid gold, and well worth spending a feat to get.
- Stand Still: Trade an AoO of damage to keep opponent's still. Again, balanced cost/benefit.

Psionic feats I don't think are balanced: (These are feats that are actually good or have potential, but didn't need to be feats.)
Psionic Meditation - this is a feat tax. There was no reason for becoming focused to be a full-round action by default. Anytime you have a feat that members of a class feel like they have to take, that's an indicator that the feat itself should have been baseline.
Psicrystal Containment - Another feat tax. If you ever get a psicrystal you're getting this, so why not let Psicrystals hold a focus for you as a base ability?
Open Mind - I'd say a feat is worth more than 5 skill points, but that's just me.
Psionic Body - if this works with Metapsionic feats then I'll be a lot more on board. But it doesn't seem to.
Don Mantle/Tap Mantle: They should really have reversed the order of these, or better yet combined them. My Psywar would much rather have the granted ability of most mantles than the powers in them, especially since only Ardents can switch out the powers by RAW.
Ectopic Form: Just, no. A nerf that was not needed.
Mind Cleave: Feat tax for soulknives, as if they needed one. This one gives them back their full-attack.

[okpokalypse]

Improved Initiative is pretty useless simply because a d20 Initiative roll is far too wide a range. There needs to be way more modifiers on the initiative roll, and realistically, Initiative should be either a smaller range (d10) or a curved range (2d10).

The fact that a 20 Dex Monk w/ Improved Initiative can even lose initiative to a Full-Plate and Tower-Shield wearing Fighter with a 10 Dex and OverSized 1H Weapon makes me sick, let alone the chance being about 1 in 4.

[okpokalypse]

- Metapsionics: far, far better balanced than metamagic. DragoonWraith's assessment of metamagic was absolutely right - As-is, the mechanic is either too expensive to be useful, or too cheap to be balanced; there is very little middle ground. However, I think I can write enough on the subject of why metapsionics are more balanced than metamagic to take up its own thread, so I will leave it at that for now.

Meta-Psionics aren't great early on. Unless you blow two feats to get a 2nd focus via your psi-crystal, you're limited to one Meta-Psionic use per turn, and even when you've got two (and psychic meditation), you need to blow your swift action on Hustle to get a 2nd Move to get back both Focii. Not good. The inability to stack Focus Expenditure early is brutal.

The Ardent overcomes this with the Dominant Ideal (L10) Option, and then it gets a bit over-powered if manipulated the right way.

The right build, by L18 can have "free" Empower, Sculpt, Knockdown, Para-Elemental and Transdimensional Powers w/ Meta-Power (taken multiple times) as well as a +2 PSP Twinned Power . So for only +2 PSP and no Psionic Focus Expenditure I'm doing 50% more Damage, Twice Over, and it's Knocking Down and Entangling (if Energy) in a variety of AoE Tpyes - and it affects ethereal and non-corporeal. All for +2 PSP. It's pretty easy to do.

Similarly though, a Conjurer / Master Conjurer can do something quite similar with Melf's Unicorn Arrow. 3/ Day Free Quickened Twinned Empowered Maximized Melf's Unicorn Arrows along with Standard Action ones is just mean. Does 500 HP damage a round without breaking a sweat. No Save, No SR.

What it comes down to is that once you factor in reduction in Meta-Magic and Meta-Psionic costs, the system gets squirrely real fast...

[Optimystik]

I didn't say Metapsionics were more powerful - I said they were more balanced.

The really good ones are hard to stack due to the focus cost. (Linked Power, Delayed Power, etc.) This keeps them useful without being broken.

Raising your caster level does not raise the cap you can metamagic a spell with, because doing so does not give you any additional slots. However, raising your manifester level does raise the cap you can spend on a power, and therefore makes metapsionics possible. But you always have the tradeoff between applying metapsionics and simply augmenting the power - unless the power cannot be augmented or there is no need to. (Very rare for blasting powers, which are typically the ones you want to meta anyway.)

Because metapsionics and augmentation are pulling from the same resource (PP), and furthermore, metapsionics share a resource with many of your other feats (your focus, or that of your psicrystal), metapsionics are kept in check while remaining useful. Meanwhile, metamagic is either useless or broken, except for very specific ones like Extend Spell.

As for Dominant Ideal, it is indeed very powerful (enough so to raise Ardents to Tier 2); however, it has a heavy opportunity cost in that you need 10 levels of ardent, 5 of which are dead levels.

[Draz74]

Part of what makes psionic feats (including metapsionics) more balanced is changing their resource. Instead of beinig powered by uses/day

Assuming you were going to finish that sentence with something about psionic focus ... yes, that's probably my favorite part of the psionics system.

- Body Fuel: an excellent example of a balanced feat. Gives a great benefit [PP] in exchange for a cost that actually matters (physical ability scores); then it makes sure that it plugs the loopholes by which cheese may enter. (You must be alive, you cannot prevent or prematurely heal ability burn, and you can't even use it while in someone else's body. Yes, they even thought of that!) Simple, elegant, effective.

Hmmm. I admit they did a better job than usual of pre-emptive cheese prevention here ... but I still haven't seen anyone ever actually use this feat.

- Deadly Precision: elegant and effective. Reroll all ones when you roll sneak attack damage. Constantly on, and therefore worth a feat slot. And like all good feats, it scales - i.e. this feat gets better as you level, because you'll be rolling more dice.

Uh. Math time. This feat adds 0.41666667 average damage to each sneak attack die. Even for a Level 19 Rogue, that's just adding (let's be generous and round up) 5 damage to each Sneak Attack. By no means is this worth a feat.

I'm not even sure a feat that just added +1 damage to each Sneak Attack die would be worth it, and that's more than twice as good as Deadly Precision.

- Hidden Talent: as above, you learn a power from anyone's list; except it has to be first level.

Eh, I don't really like this feat, just because it wasn't well integrated with the rest of the rules (being in a Sidebar). It's not in the SRD; I feel a little guilty anytime I take it; and it doesn't explain its rules clearly (like how exactly Charisma relates to the use of the power you gain here, especially if you also have levels in a psionic class).

Conceptually, though, I agree, this feat was a great idea; a predecessor to the excellent "dip-into-new-mechanics" feats in ToB and MoI.

- Practiced Caster/Manifester: This is well worth a feat, and every caster should have had the choice of a similar ability. (Practiced Invoker, Practiced Initiator, Practiced Meldshaper etc.)

Good feat ... but not in the XPH.

- Psionic Mastery - Take 10 on ML checks. This is solid gold, and well worth spending a feat to get.

I don't recognize this one at all. Where is it from?

Psicrystal Containment - Another feat tax. If you ever get a psicrystal you're getting this, so why not let Psicrystals hold a focus for you as a base ability?

Because then the Psicrystal feat would have been way, way too good? Hmm, I don't think we're going to agree about the game design principles of "feat taxes" in general.

Open Mind - I'd say a feat is worth more than 5 skill points, but that's just me.

No, not just you, we're in total agreement on this.

Psionic Body - if this works with Metapsionic feats then I'll be a lot more on board. But it doesn't seem to.

Math time again. Even if this applied to Metapsionic feats ... it would be worse than Improved Toughness for most characters. With the exception of Psychic Warriors who don't take any Fighter feats. They could possibly get up to about 32 Hit Points (at Level 20) from this feat ... which isn't terrible, but still isn't a great feat.

Don Mantle/Tap Mantle: They should really have reversed the order of these, or better yet combined them. My Psywar would much rather have the granted ability of most mantles than the powers in them, especially since only Ardents can switch out the powers by RAW.

And even for Ardents, you're relying on DM-fiat-reliant web material rather than the original source text.

I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, adding another mantle to a psionic character seems like it should be very powerful, worthy of two feats. On the other hand, feats are useful for so many things, I haven't seen any psionic characters actually manage to squeeze these two feats into their build. So yeah, maybe they're too weak after all.

[Person_Man]

RE: Improved Initiative

You can gain a bonus to Initiative via a variety of means. For example, if you enchant your gauntlets or armor spikes with the Warning enhancement, you get +5 to Initiative in exchange for 8,000 gp (the cost of enchanting a non-magical weapon to make it a +1 Warning weapon). Similarly, if I was a full caster I'd have many options for boosting my Initiative with spells (with the easiest being Alter Self). Or I could play a very small race (which tends to have higher Dex).

The point is, Feats are valuable, and I tend not to use them on things I can get other ways.