Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

[Surrealistik]

I'm talking in general, not specifically about the Red Mage, who is indeed way more focused and without exception than I'd like.

TBH the current parameters seem pretty good. The major issue with spell damage post melee buffs was its ridiculous aggregate damage when used as AoEs, and that's pretty well fixed at this point.

[IronJawbone]

Finally got the Monster Creator all nice and spiffy. Again, thanks to Thread Of Fate for providing a great structure to build upon. I'm willing to listen to feedback, and constructive criticism!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/59g9nk

I do plan on building a bestiary with this thing, starting with a bunch of level 1 critters, and I'll share what I make. (I'm currently just banging rocks together making these things, so please don't expect too much, and don't be afraid to make edits to better suit your players.)

[IronJawbone]

Surrealistik: The errata looks really good, and I applaud the effort made to get one of these up. I've got a couple of things to bring to the table to take a look at.

Blue Mage: Observe - Not a big fan of dipping an ability to be a Blue Mage once without being a Blue Mage ever again, so I had an idea. "On the third consecutive level gain without being a Blue Mage, the ability will become dormant. To recharge this ability, the player must spend an entire level as a Blue Mage. Will always be active while as a Blue Mage."

Shields: I agree that there needs to be a price boost on the shields, but matching them to armor seems way too harsh. A x1.75 (give or take .25) seems to be more reasonable as they are just supplements to the armor rather than a second set.

Limit Breaks/Summons: It has been suggested by a few for upgrades (Novagraf Page 30 post 8)/(War Planets, Page 35, post 2), and I like the ideas. For what War Planets suggested, maybe to be used in conjunction with a Destiny Point cap to prevent hoarding/abuse. As for summons, I can't be the only one who thinks having a separate pool of points for summons only isn't a bad idea. How to implement it...I have ideas, but I'm not sure how good they are.

Gambler Slots: R8.50Mango posted this- http://pastebin.com/H9aghyke and I think it needs to be added. (Dust approved)

Black Mage Crystal Cannon: Charismagic is already being looked at, and I'm surprised this one hasn't been touched yet since it has brought about a lot of hullabaloo about 10 pages back.

[ThreadOfFate]

Finally got the Monster Creator all nice and spiffy. Again, thanks to Thread Of Fate for providing a great structure to build upon. I'm willing to listen to feedback, and constructive criticism!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/59g9nk

I do plan on building a bestiary with this thing, starting with a bunch of level 1 critters, and I'll share what I make. (I'm currently just banging rocks together making these things, so please don't expect too much, and don't be afraid to make edits to better suit your players.)

Oh damn, this looks beautiful. I'm quite impressed! Thanks for building on my dinky little thing!

[Surrealistik]

On Shields:

The _real_ value of shields is that they're another enchantable slot; the MDEF and DEF is a bonus. That said, pricing it at armour levels is pretty fair in my view.

I agree with Crystal Cannon among other things; errata's definitely a work in progress, and I haven't addressed nearly everything I've meant to thus far.

[IronJawbone]

Oh damn, this looks beautiful. I'm quite impressed! Thanks for building on my dinky little thing!

I'm glad you hear you like it, honored that you are impressed. ^_^ I couldn't have done it if you hadn't of provided a foundation. On other news for it, I really liked the idea of having Elemental Affinities and Status Vulnerabilities change with the species, but while I got that working somewhat with macros, I felt it might make people jumpy/paranoid with macros, so I left it out.
Oh, and I really like the changes you made with spells, and may just go about doing that for my game instead of raising physical users. I'd really like to see what you had in mind for Blue Magic.

On Shields:
The _real_ value of shields is that they're another enchantable slot; the MDEF and DEF is a bonus. That said, pricing it at armour levels is pretty fair in my view.
I agree with Crystal Cannon among other things; errata's definitely a work in progress, and I haven't addressed nearly everything I've meant to thus far.

Shield: Alright, I feel silly. For some reason I could've sworn that the armor's properties slot rose like weapons, and now that I see it doesn't, a closer price comparison is warranted. Still, I'm now leaning towards something like shields cost 90% of what armor does, and leaving the Tier 1 Shield at 50g.

Crystal Cannon: It's fine; no worries, no rush. It's just that when things went messy everyone talked about "how they home ruled it" but never offered what they did. I mainly offered that up since you got the ball rolling on the errata stuff rather than just doing a South Park "Rabblerabblerabble" about it.

[Valnnar]

Hey guys a while back I was talking about the homebrew Engineer changes that I added in an effort to help my melee classes keep up with my casters. As a disclaimer you must understand. . . The pace of our sessions makes casters very powerful, as MP is rarely an issue with any strategic usage. In general I have found all of my melee types to be VERY lacking in damage output by comparison to the mage builds that my group has.

Again you must understand that the core system has been changed a bit to allow for a Main-Job and Sub-Job at the same time, thus granting the Innates from both classes, and some minor access to skill from the chosen Sub-Job. This has increased the level of power that is in the game, and thus I have had to go the extra mile to increase my monsters raw stats. Also I have been creating fight scenarios that are more "Puzzle-Like" in nature, by requiring certain strategies in order to succeed correctly. All of this is to say, none of the following material is balanced for standard FFD6, but it may still bring some type of inspiration.

Currently the ability that I'm going to show you is taking the slot of a Limit Ability, and replacing the use of Clockwork Tools. I thought Clockwork Tools went in a great direction with the use of the Systems score in a combat situation, but I felt that it fell a little short on delivery. The new "Tinkering" limit ability holds enough power in it to be considered and innate, and a Limit Ability but it served as a great "Shot in the arm" boost of power to the group Engineer (who can still be beat in damage by any and all of my mages in the group). The Clockwork tools ability has now been integrated into the new Tinkering ability, however only to augment the Turret units. It does for them, basically what it does to the Engineer now.

I'm breaking this up into two posts because it's a bunch of content. I don't have any file share sites that I work with, so I hope it's okay if I put it on here plainly. If it's not cool for me to do that, let me know and I'll remove it. I'm not trying to mess with anyone's creation, I just like to add to anything that I play.

[Valnnar]

Engineer Limit Ability: Tinkering

Tinkering is a new action which augments your Invent ability, allowing you to create Inventions which can turn the tide of battle, and assist your allies. As a Slow Action the Engineer can create one of his known Inventions. If an Invention can be targeted by enemies it starts with HP equal to 25% of the Engineer’s maximum HP unless otherwise stated. Also you passively gain a skill bonus to your Systems skill equal to your Force score (this also applies when qualifying for Clockwork Tools). At the end of the Slow Action, the Engineer must roll a Systems check to determine the System Score of his Invention. The System Score check will affect each Invention in a different way. After an Invention has been created the Engineer may choose to “Upgrade” it with a Standard Action. An Invention that has been Upgraded gains additional unique effects.

Tinkering Inventions

***Turret/Cannon/Attack-Bot: Create an offensive Invention designed to deal damage to your opponents. Although the Engineer can create multiple units that will continue to deal damage on their own, he may also choose one unit to pilot/control (While controlling a Unit the Engineer is considered to be under the affects of Stop, but maintains all defensive stats). When controlling a unit he may make basic attacks at medium range, adds it’s Systems Score to his damage, and gains a +2 Acc. Otherwise, each turret will target the nearest foe (if multiple enemies are at the same range, the target is chosen randomly) within medium range, with an accuracy equal to the Engineer, and attack dealing Systems Score + 2d6 Non Elemental M.ARM damage upon a successful hit. These units still suffer from instability over time. . . At the end of each attack they have a 25% chance of malfunctioning and becoming inert. Any units that are being controlled by their maker directly do not have a chance to break after each attack.

-Upgrade: Add an additional Systems check to the total System Score of the Invention. While controlling this unit the Engineer now also gains +1 to Crit Chance and AVD. Units upgraded in this way must malfunction twice to break. Also you may add a property from the list of Clockwork Tools, and further attacks from this unit obey those rules. The property from Clockwork Tools may not be changed on a unit once it has been added.

-Cinematic Effect: This can manifest itself in a number of different ways, and is the most flexible Invention by design. These could represent arm cannons attached to the Engineer, or Futuristic Sentry Turrets, even a semi-sentient robo-servant. If made into a semi-sentient creature, the Engineer may make skill checks (out of combat) through the machine if he is controlling the unit. Only one unit can ever be controlled at any time.

***Repulsar Field: Targets and ally and creates defensive shield around them, soaking damage while improving avoidance and armor. Only one Repulsar Field can be active at a time. While active the Repulsar Field will soak 50% of incoming damage from its’ host, up to a maximum of (Engineer Level x Systems Score). While the shield holds the target is granted +2 AVD, and armor equal to (Engineer Level x 2). There is a 25% chance that the Field will become unstable and explode upon being struck. If the field explodes all enemies in short range dealing damage equal to half the remaining HP on the Repulsar Field, knocking them back with successful Force check.

-Upgrade: Add an additional Systems check to the total System Score of the invention. Armor bonus increases to (Engineer Level x 3)

-Cinematic Effect: This creates a simple and effect force barrier. It can manifest itself in a large array of colors, shapes, and sizes. Whether the inventor projects a large force wall to the prevent intruders from breaking down a door, or makes a large suit of armor for a user to wear. The Field could even be represented in the form of an automaton who seeks to defend a target, and/or inhibit the attacks of foes. In this way, semi-sentience could be used here in the same way as the Attack-Bot.

***Accelerator Aura: Target ally gains increasing surges of speed and agility culminating in a burst of speed as the aura disperses its’ energy to nearby allies. Starting the first round the target receives a stacking +1 Bonus to ACC/AVD/FIN each round. Upon the third and final round the target receives a total of +3 in all three stats and gains an additional action. Also, on the third round all allies within medium range of the user gain a +1 to ACC/AVD/FIN. The bonuses disappear after the third round.

-Upgrade: The +1 ACC/AVD/FIN bonus granted to the whole party on the third round now lasts for the whole fight, and stacks. Also while the user is under the effect of the Accelerator Aura they are immune knockback effects.

-Cinematic Effect: This could represent a stationary beacon, or a simple belt accessory which emits a time-distortion effect from its’ core. Either way time would seem to slow temporarily to the primary user more and more until a complete freeze frame allows for an extra action. Time would also slow slightly for anyone caught in the aura burst on the third round.

[Sparx MacGyver]

I've been meaning to post this for a couple days, I just keep forgetting. I've got a terrible short term memory, always forgetting things.

Anyway, here is my attempt at a stat block. I know we have the ones from the book, but I felt we needed something that was a bit more user friendly, though I love the stat blocks in the book. I just can't copy it and put my own creatures/NPC's/etc in there.

NOTE: I am making use of Surrealistik's errata in my home game, the numbers may look off if you aren't.
NOTE II: The character below isn't meant to be taken seriously, just as an example of what the stat block looks like. Probably broken, but it's just an example.
NOTE III: This stat block works well for both Characters and Monsters.

Spoiler

Show

Character CL 0
Sex Race Class Level
Languages *
Immune *
--------------------------------------------------------------
Defenses Force 0; Finesse 0; Destiny 0;
HP 0; MP 0; AVD 0; ACC 0; ARM 0; M.ARM 0;
--------------------------------------------------------------
Weapon (dmg)+2d6
Weapon (dmg)+2d6
Atk Options *
Special Actions *
--------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities PWR 0, RES 0, DEX 0, MND 0,
Special Qualities * (put racial benefits or other abilities of note here)
Abilities
Limit Abilities
Limit Breaks
Spells
Skills
Weapon Proficiency
Armor Proficiency
Magic School
Possessions

And here is an example character to show you what it looks like.

Spoiler

Show

John CL 4
Male Hume Dragoon 4
Languages *
Immune *
--------------------------------------------------------------
Defenses Force 5; Finesse 2; Destiny 0;
HP 104; MP 0; AVD 9; ACC 7; ARM 15; M.ARM 15;
--------------------------------------------------------------
Weapon Flametounge 60+2d6
Weapon Dragoon Lance 36+2d6
Atk Options *
Special Actions Deep Breathing – fire breath 48+2d6; bolt breath 0+2d6;*
--------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities PWR 12, RES 10, DEX 8, MND 0,
Special Qualities * (put racial benefits or other abilities of note here)
Abilities Jump, Deep Breathing, Defy Gravity, Heirloom, Ride the Storm
Limit Abilities
Limit Breaks
Spells
Skills Athletics +2, Awareness +4, Escape +5, Inquiry +5, Lore(General) +2, Negotiation +5, Stealth +4,
Weapon Proficiency Reach
Armor Proficiency Medium, Heavy
Magic School
Possessions Flametounge (Tier 4 Reach, Heirloom, element [strike], element [enhancer]), Dragoon Lance (Tier 3 reach),Dragoon Armor (Tier 3 medium), 1200 gil

[Kiton]

Valnnar: The damage on the inventions is a little odd:
Systems Score + 2d6 is quite decent at tier 1, but even if you got that all the way up to, say, 30, 30+2d6 when others are swinging for 8*STAT+2d6 is a whole other story. Especially since that stat is probably in the 20s.

[Valnnar]

These were baseline roll outs of this ability. Ultimately there are many other abilities that are meant to work with it, and boost the effectiveness of your Inventions if you want to go that route. For example, a specialist in offensive Inventions may take an ability that allows turrets to deal Systems Score x 1/2 LvL when not piloted. Otherwise the Turrets prove a way to throw nominal damage at a target with debuffs attached to it from the Clockwork Tools kit, or boost your own damage by piloting it, and basically adding your systems score to your own damage (along with other modifiers).

This was small amount of the content that I have written, there are so many other abilities that I have added to make this stuff work. . . I just haven't compiled them all. I have other skill edits that are similar for Blue Mage, and Samurai. Turns Blue Mage basically into a Blood Mage, and makes Samurai all about building up energy to unleash Limit Breaks more effectively, while gaining bonuses against opponents that no allies are attacking.

The balance is easy to find because the equations are so strict across the board. However, there are many factors in my personal campaign which are already effecting balance. So the previous post should be used more as inspiration/guidelines rather than hard rules. Just get creative with the idea, the numbers are easy and they happen pretty naturally in this rule set.

[Sparx MacGyver]

If you get a chance, Valnnar, I'd like to see what rose you've got.

[Zinoph]

Dust, I love the system you've made! I ran a Returner's FFRPG game for my group a few years ago up to around 40th level and I have to say so far FF D6 is a dream to GM compared to that beast. Monster creation is so easy that it no longer feels like a chore! I've been lurking the board for a month or two now and thought it was time to join the site and contribute.

IronJawBone: Blue Mage ability Observe: why not just say that since its an extension of an Innate Ability if you don't have access to Learning you don't have access to Observe? It even states that it "overwrites and supersedes" Learning so in my mind it IS the Innate Ability now. All we need now is just some Errata clarifying that in the description (*hint hint* Surrealistic).

War Planets: Summons/Destiny Points: I love the idea of having a separate pool of "Summon Points". I've already implemented it into my game so its being tested now. I'm using the 10 xp per session option since my group likes longer games that go on for a year plus so I'm using the "every level you get your level in summoning points" option. The Summoner/White Mage just joined the party at level 1 so I can't report too much on it yet.

That does bring me to a rules question if anyone knows:

Can a summon use their ASTRAL FLOW ability as soon as they show up or do they have to survive to round 3 in which case they use it automatically and then are dismissed? When the party summoner called on Valfor he tried to have his first action be Energy Blast to alpha strike the target but I couldn't find anywhere where it said that he could.

Thread of Fate: Character Sheet: Love the sheet! As a graphic designer I approve! My group did notice that its missing a spot to write your XPs on though. Is that intentional?

Anyway that's all I've got so far but I did want to say that I appreciate everyone's work on the project. It's definitely a labor of love and it shows.

[ThreadOfFate]

Thread of Fate: Character Sheet: Love the sheet! As a graphic designer I approve! My group did notice that its missing a spot to write your XPs on though. Is that intentional?

Glad to hear you like it!

As for your question, no, it isn't. I actually tend to not even bother with EXP in games I run with levels, since I find it easier to just level up the party according to set plotlines or when I say so - it makes it easier to know what level they will be at what time. In this case, it was a simple oversight on my part and I just completely forgot to put a place for it. I'll go around and fix it later today.

[Kiton]

Dust, I love the system you've made! I ran a Returner's FFRPG game for my group a few years ago up to around 40th level and I have to say so far FF D6 is a dream to GM compared to that beast. Monster creation is so easy that it no longer feels like a chore! I've been lurking the board for a month or two now and thought it was time to join the site and contribute.

Returners was great for IRC or other online systems where you had dicebots that could have everything you need plugged in.

Definitely too unwieldy for the table, though, which is where FFd6 can shine.
their new project [or offshoot-team's or whatever] is SEED, which is along those lines of complexity; a lot of potential, a lot of awesome, but never, ever try it without some automation aid.

[IronJawbone]

I've been lurking the board for a month or two now and thought it was time to join the site and contribute.

IronJawBone: Blue Mage ability Observe: why not just say that since its an extension of an Innate Ability if you don't have access to Learning you don't have access to Observe? It even states that it "overwrites and supersedes" Learning so in my mind it IS the Innate Ability now.

That does bring me to a rules question if anyone knows:
ASTRAL FLOW!

Anyway that's all I've got so far but I did want to say that I appreciate everyone's work on the project. It's definitely a labor of love and it shows.

Welcome to the lurker now contributor club. ^_^
Summoner question: I rechecked over the rules, and it looks like they have to live to round 3. Sounds like it's there for balance.
Blue Mage: I like it. Maybe something to add to it is an improved nature check since they can't haul it around with other classes?

[Surrealistik]

IronJawBone: Blue Mage ability Observe: why not just say that since its an extension of an Innate Ability if you don't have access to Learning you don't have access to Observe? It even states that it "overwrites and supersedes" Learning so in my mind it IS the Innate Ability now. All we need now is just some Errata clarifying that in the description (*hint hint* Surrealistic).

Now addressed.

Also gave Paladin and the White Mage Seal Evil as a shared Job Ability.

Red Mage gets Spontaneous Spell as a replacement Job Ability:

Spontaneous Spell
Usage: 1 / Combat
Action: Instant
Effect: The next time you would begin casting a spell, you can instead begin casting any spell from the same tier or lower and of the same magic type.
Special: You can take this Job Ability any number of times. Each time you do, you can use this Job Ability an additional time per combat.

[squiggit]

The problem with making Observe just replace the innate is that it ends up feeling even more like an ability tax. It also makes the blue mage another one of those classes that's a huge pain to multiclass with... and it leaves the ability obviously dead weight if you class change (and I think we have enough of those as is).

[elmerg]

Wow. Seems like I'm not the only person who's been tearing out things from under the hood and replacing them. Good job on much of it, Surrealistik.

Myself, I've been running FFd6 using a mesh of the 5-stat and 4-stat system; it's not been perfect, but it's been overall better for what my players have wanted. That said, I've been working at a heavy rewrite of some things that I may post. In particular, I've been working on additional options for Destiny from a narrative standpoint, and stripping away some ties to other systems such as Limit Breaks. I've also been working on an Initiative variant, since my group didn't like the 'good guys go, enemies go' system.

When I get them where I feel comfortable with them, I might post the Tick Initiative System I've been working on, and perhaps a potential Job writeup (Paladin is where I started and have the most work done); most of my work on altering Jobs has been culling from various FF sources like XI, XIV and other FF games (there're a plethora of options to pull from).

[Falcon777]

Now addressed.

Also gave Paladin and the White Mage Seal Evil as a shared Job Ability.

Red Mage gets Spontaneous Spell as a replacement Job Ability:

Spontaneous Spell
Usage: 1 / Combat
Action: Instant
Effect: The next time you would begin casting a spell, you can instead begin casting any spell from the same tier or lower and of the same magic type.
Special: You can take this Job Ability any number of times. Each time you do, you can use this Job Ability an additional time per combat.

The seal evil change makes sense for it to be White Mage or Paladin focused.

Um, but I don't see the point of spontaneous spell. Even if you did have the chance to play this without being online (where you can just take your time to figure out exactly what spell you want to cast), the Spontaneous Spell ability doesn't really seem to live up to its name. What's the point? You can change your mind before you've finished making up your mind? This especially doesn't make sense when you consider the 1.3 version (most up to date version I have) of Fast Cast where you can cast one spell per round as a standard action (which makes sense for a Red mage who is going to be both casting and attacking, assuming he has haste). Frankly, I don't see the point of neutering fast cast even further as Red Mages can no longer double cast each round with the 1.3 version, but that's another point altogether.

But again, Spontaneous Spell doesn't make sense to me. Care to elaborate?

[Surrealistik]

Simply put, you can use spells you don't know.

This gives you a lot of flexibility.

[Falcon777]

Oh Wow. I didn't see that caveat. That is strong.

[Zinoph]

Spontaneous Spell
Usage: 1 / Combat
Action: Instant
Effect: The next time you would begin casting a spell, you can instead begin casting any spell from the same tier or lower and of the same magic type.
Special: You can take this Job Ability any number of times. Each time you do, you can use this Job Ability an additional time per combat.

Surrealistik - I LOVE IT! Now there is an ability that helps a Red Mage keep their 8-bit Theater "versatility"! I like it much more than Seal Evil (which I think was included because in the comic Red Mage sealed one of the fiends away in an object like it describes). When Dust comes back that should defiantly be included in some way.

Oh and maybe once the book gets updates again we should see about getting the term "once per session" changed to "once per day" since according to the errata it basically means the same thing and I agree with the concept wholeheartedly. If the GM says that a week has gone by in game time and you somehow get into a scrape both before and after why can't you use that ability again? That's just good game-play my friend.

The problem with making Observe just replace the innate is that it ends up feeling even more like an ability tax. It also makes the blue mage another one of those classes that's a huge pain to multiclass with... and it leaves the ability obviously dead weight if you class change (and I think we have enough of those as is).

Squiggit - I can see where you're coming from. I did a quick look over the classes and found other instances where you're taking a hit for multi-classing:

Dragoon - Highwind (Limit Ability)
Engineer - Automated Respose
Gambler - The Last Word (Slots), Winning Streak (Slots)
Geomancer - Geoawareness, Weight of the World (Limit Ability)
Monk - Hundred Fists, Final Heaven (Both Limit Abilities)
Samurai – Iaido (Limit Ability)
Thief – Flimflam, Sleight of Hand (situational)

So while I feel we've only really clarified a rule with Observe, the above examples should defiantly be considered. Personally I think it should be all or nothing; either every class has an upgrade or Limit Ability that adds to their Innate, or none of them do.

Plus something else that should be put on a list of typos to be fixed:

The Samurai ability Warding Circle refers to itself in the description as Ancient Circle which is a Dragoon ability I believe.

[squiggit]

So while I feel we've only really clarified a rule with Observe

Well it's more than that. The ability specifically states here that it works even if you aren't a blue mage and that's what people are asking to be taken away.

Really I think the problem here is that the blue mage innate doesn't do very much on its own beyond that. Bonus language and lore is really really niche.

And for your examples: I think you could add Geo, Thief and Monk in general to that list insofar as that the classes are really defined in many ways by their innate and therefore lose a lot of their identity when they class change.

[Surrealistik]

In case there's any confusion on this particular matter, the intent of my Observe replacement was to remain usable during multiclassing.

TBH, I think multiclassing in general is poorly conceived and needs revision.

[Sparx MacGyver]

In case there's any confusion on this particular matter, the intent of my Observe replacement was to remain usable during multiclassing.

TBH, I think multiclassing in general is poorly conceived and needs revision.

I dunno, I kind of think it works well. In my case, I've taken away the destiny point cost, but I did make it so you can only change jobs between sessions, as we play weekly. I know you could pretty much swap jobs at will in games that use them, I don't want my players changing jobs every 5 minutes. The only thing that really bugs me is that you lose your innate ability and it's replaced. I haven't come up with an alternative, but it seems kind of meh to me, at least from somebody who comes from Pathfinder/Star Wars Saga Edition. I kind of like the way they multiclassed in SWSE, you only got one of the starting feats, not all of them. So perhaps instead of replacing the innate ability, you retain it, but then you don't pick a new one. YOu simply get the new innate ability.

So going from Dragoon to Engineer, you would keep Jump, but rather than picking a new ability you only got Invent, and all the math for hp etc, stayed the same.

[elmerg]

I dunno, I kind of think it works well. In my case, I've taken away the destiny point cost, but I did make it so you can only change jobs between sessions, as we play weekly. I know you could pretty much swap jobs at will in games that use them, I don't want my players changing jobs every 5 minutes. The only thing that really bugs me is that you lose your innate ability and it's replaced. I haven't come up with an alternative, but it seems kind of meh to me, at least from somebody who comes from Pathfinder/Star Wars Saga Edition. I kind of like the way they multiclassed in SWSE, you only got one of the starting feats, not all of them. So perhaps instead of replacing the innate ability, you retain it, but then you don't pick a new one. YOu simply get the new innate ability.

So going from Dragoon to Engineer, you would keep Jump, but rather than picking a new ability you only got Invent, and all the math for hp etc, stayed the same.

The easiest way to render a 'multiclass' in this system, and still maintain a FF feel, would be to untie abilities from levels and give them a cost to 'master,' ala the Tactics/Tactics Advance series, and allow Job changing freely; outside of the Innate and Epic for each Job, all other abilities must be learned separately and can be mix-and-matched as the player wants, within limits (like, cannot have more than X abilities that are not in your current Job in use). It's a bit less on immersion (and at that point, if I was going for flat immersion I'd be leaving out multiclassing anyway, or use a FFXI-style Subjob system).

I dunno, none of the people I've been running this for seemed interested in Job Changing/Multiclassing, and I myself am not a huge fan of it anyway. Perhaps more thought processes are in order.

[ThreadOfFate]

The easiest way to render a 'multiclass' in this system, and still maintain a FF feel, would be to untie abilities from levels and give them a cost to 'master,' ala the Tactics/Tactics Advance series, and allow Job changing freely; outside of the Innate and Epic for each Job, all other abilities must be learned separately and can be mix-and-matched as the player wants, within limits (like, cannot have more than X abilities that are not in your current Job in use). It's a bit less on immersion (and at that point, if I was going for flat immersion I'd be leaving out multiclassing anyway, or use a FFXI-style Subjob system).

I dunno, none of the people I've been running this for seemed interested in Job Changing/Multiclassing, and I myself am not a huge fan of it anyway. Perhaps more thought processes are in order.

This seems like a good idea. I personally am forbidding job changes in my game I'm currently running, since I feel that the strongest FF games are ones where the jobs are fixed into the character - it isn't just what they're doing, it is a strong part of who they personally are.

Still, Job Changing right now seems almost like an afterthought. Multiclassing or class changing in any system is always difficult to work with.

[squiggit]

This seems like a good idea. I personally am forbidding job changes in my game I'm currently running, since I feel that the strongest FF games are ones where the jobs are fixed into the character - it isn't just what they're doing, it is a strong part of who they personally are.

I get this, but at the same time in those games characters tended to be less statically defined by a single job either. Which is probably why I like multiclassing here, just to make stuff a little more oddball (magic archers or gunmages, engineering geomancers, etc. etc.)... though as I've already complained repeatedly the system doesn't support stuff like that very well.

The problem as I tend to see it is that the system is engineered in such a way that it encourages playing a "base class" and then occasionally multi classing for a powerful ability here or there rather than creating any sort of split identity. So it ends up being less a way to help further define your character and more a way to powergame by making sure your red mage has mind over matter and ancient spells (etc.).

[Zinoph]

The problem as I tend to see it is that the system is engineered in such a way that it encourages playing a "base class" and then occasionally multi classing for a powerful ability here or there rather than creating any sort of split identity. So it ends up being less a way to help further define your character and more a way to powergame by making sure your red mage has mind over matter and ancient spells (etc.).

Agreed. But this is where there is bound to be some disconnect between the cannon games and a pen and paper rpg. In many of the games that allow rampant class changes (Tactics, FF V, FF X-2) the whole point is to jump around picking up the best abilities from each class and using them as a strategy to overcome the game's obstacles. FF D6 seems like it takes the FF V approach to multi-classing which is fine but not any better/worse than Tactics or XI.

I don't think that the multi-class system was an afterthought as I understand the last version of the game had the Freelancer career and their whole point was to jump around. I do feel that using Destiny Points may be too much. In the game I'm running now I have a player who decided he doesn't like his Monk class so he's trying to squire under a Paladin so he can class change. Instead of using Destiny I'm just making him role-play through the process and go on a dangerous quest to gain the right to class change. I think this is better from a narrative point that just having a rare in-game currency that allows you to do certain things.

Do I think Destiny Points have their place? Sure. Other games have used the mechanic to great affect; Pathfinder has "action points", Iron Kingdoms has "fate points", and Savage Worlds has "bennies". All of these help skew fate in the players favor when luck goes against them. The issue with FF D6 is that the points are so rare but everything cool uses them. I think if the Destiny Point system is designed to facilitate the narrative then just let it do THAT! Let it change the direction the story, cheat death, or whatever. Don't use it as a power source for abilities you only want players to be able to use two or three times in the entire campaign.

I feel silly for wanting to come up with ways of changing the system when Dust has mentioned herself that these are things she plans on changing anyway... but waiting is so hard.