Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!

[mucat]

... the color of their blood.

Look, i know paladins are supposed to check everything they do to make sure they're doing the right thing (which only Lloyd seems to be doing here) but COME ON! The color of their blood?

Lloyd, there is something very weird in your head >.>

Not quite sure I get your point...but if it helps, Lloyd isn't literally saying it matters what color a Plavaans's blood is. He's being bitterly metaphorical. What woke him up isn't the evidence of hemoglobin-based oxygen transport; it's the way Kylie is trying to protect and comfort her baby sister, almost a if she were a person or something...

So as the implications sink in and he realizes how wrong he's been about everything, he says "What was I thinking, that they don't bleed just like me?" As Geno said, the metaphor was good enough for Shakespeare...and in this case, Lloyd's hands are covered with evidence that it's literally true as well.

[super dark33]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

[blackjack217]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

Who said they were evil?

[super dark33]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

[blackjack217]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

Really? then what about this guy:

[mucat]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

Your distinction between "good" and "right" here is entirely unclear; you're not making much sense.

If you're trying to make a point about how you like things to work in fictional stories...well, I suppose we have very different taste in fiction. If you're describing your beliefs about how similar situations should be handled in the real world, then I am fairly sure you just stated yourself to be evil-aligned in real life. (Only "fairly sure," because your writing is unclear and I might be mistaking what you are trying to say.)


EDIT: Ah, ninja'd by another post which makes it more clear what you mean:

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

Well, Drow don't exist in real life, so if the extent of your statement is that you don't like Drow, there's no point in arguing over fiction. If you are saying that the "X" in your statement could be filled in by any real-life group of people who one society considers "evil", then you are condoning heinous crimes, and should rethink your position.

[Asta Kask]

Really? then what about this guy:

Drizzt is exceptional. For him to be the exception to the rule, there has to be a rule.

[blackjack217]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

He is implying all drow are automatically evil no matter the circumstances, therefore the drizzt response counters his argument. Also for this setting WoC (word of coffee) has clearly stated that the drow and co have a completely unearned reputation.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Drizzt is exceptional. For him to be the exception to the rule, there has to be a rule.

Yes Drizz't is exceptional... in the Forgotten Realm cosmology; but in Aquear (SP?) I haven't seen anything that implies that Drow are evil (their goddess action notwithstanding; if we could judge accurately a race because of how their god acts, then all Dwarves would be as stupid and irresponsible as Thor).

[Devmaar]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

That's not how it works. In D&D alignment is both measurable and tangible. An individual's view, be they a deity or not, makes no difference. You seem to be implying that if two clerics of different gods used detect spells on the same subject, that subject could detect as being good, lawful, chaotic and evil depending on the gods' differing points of view. It would also mean that a cleric devoted to a cause rather than a deity would always have their detect spells confirm their pre-existing beliefs, and they could smite evil against anyone who they vaguely thought might perhaps be a little bit evil maybe.

[Lix Lorn]

Drizzt is exceptional. For him to be the exception to the rule, there has to be a rule.

Oh? Rich Burlew begs to differ.

Also, from experience I'm going to add that superdark is acting evil to get a rise.

[Marnath]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

I have no idea what you're saying, is there any way you could phrase it coherently for me?

[Lycan 01]

Don't kill da behbeh! Don't do it Lloyd!

[Asta Kask]

It will grow up to be a drow soldier. Slice it! Dice it!

[Mina Kobold]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

OBJECTION!

Obeying the laws (what Kago's government say) is a lawful act, lawfulness are by definition in the standard alignment system NOT the same as goodness.

They would not show up as Evil unless they had committed more deeds universally accepted as evil than good, I see no evidence that this is the case.

The defence rests.

Edit:

Post Scriptum:

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

I see no evidence for this either, the defence rests again.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Not quite sure I get your point...but if it helps, Lloyd isn't literally saying it matters what color a Plavaans's blood is. He's being bitterly metaphorical. What woke him up isn't the evidence of hemoglobin-based oxygen transport; it's the way Kylie is trying to protect and comfort her baby sister, almost a if she were a person or something...

So as the implications sink in and he realizes how wrong he's been about everything, he says "What was I thinking, that they don't bleed just like me?" As Geno said, the metaphor was good enough for Shakespeare...and in this case, Lloyd's hands are covered with evidence that it's literally true as well.

BINGO!

And they didn't even bother to "scan" them. Hell, Astrid would have probably lied about the results anyway.

[Asta Kask]

Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood

[Marnath]

BINGO!

And they didn't even bother to "scan" them. Hell, Astrid would have probably lied about the results anyway.

Why? I thought she was supposed to be a good goddess?

[mucat]

Why? I thought she was supposed to be a good goddess?

For the most part, but she's got a moral blind spot when it comes to Plavaans.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Why? I thought she was supposed to be a good goddess?

Who absolutely despises the Plavaan for reasons which Janine explained. They killed Salblaze. She'll never forgive them.

[blackjack217]

Who absolutely despises the Plavaan for reasons which Janine explained. They killed Salblaze. She'll never forgive them.

Seems like a very Greek interpretation of gods. (not any morally better, just more powerful)

[mucat]

Seems like a very Greek interpretation of gods. (not any morally better, just more powerful)

Or a Discworld interpretation (where the gods actually share a lot in common with the Greek view.)

I like settings where the gods, if any, have as many flaws and foibles as any human. Mortals should be able to strive to be morally superior to their gods. That way, even if the gods turn out to be fictional, they will have inspired their followers to become better people, rather than lulling them into moral stagnation because "the high priest says the gods approve of what I'm doing."

But I digress, and dangerously so...

[Lix Lorn]

Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood

For the blood god?

BINGO!

And they didn't even bother to "scan" them. Hell, Astrid would have probably lied about the results anyway.

AHA
So, confirmation that Astrid agrees. Intriguing!
So now the question is, why hasn't LLOYD fallen for forgiving them? Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

[zimmerwald1915]

Actually, I find it fitting.
All of Lloyd's life he was taught that the Plavaan was sub-human, that they were evil, that they were below human. By realizing that they have the same color of blood, he realized the truth that Shakespeare once wrote in a play.

Of course, Shylock was a sick sonofagun (most Venetians in Shakespeare's plays are), and Shakespeare was mocking his pretensions towards the moral highground. Shakespeare was no Ben Jonson, but Shylock's speech...isn't meant to be taken seriously.

[Marnath]

Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

I like this theory, a lot.

[mucat]

So, confirmation that Astrid agrees. Intriguing!
So now the question is, why hasn't LLOYD fallen for forgiving them? Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

I like this interpretation; Astrid herself is conflicted. That has a Discworld feel to it as well: a god can be prodded into "growing up" by the realization that "my followers are better people than I am."
(waves to Om.)

...which has led, across the mulitverse, to men and women of tremendous brilliance and empathy devoting their entire lives to the service of deities who couldn't beat them at a quiet game of dominoes.

For example, Sister Sestina of Quirm defied the wrath of a local king and walked unharmed across a bed of coals and propounded a philosophy of sensible ethics on behalf of a goddess whose only real interest was in hairstyles, and Brother Zephilite of Klatch left his vast estates and his family and spent his life ministering to the sick and poor on behalf of the invisible god F'rum, generally considered unable, should he have a backside, to find it with both hands, should he have hands.

Gods never need to be very bright when there are humans around to be it for them.

[RdMarquis]

So now the question is, why hasn't LLOYD fallen for forgiving them? Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

Sounds good. Astrid seems as much a person, as she is a goddess. Looks like being close to all powerful doesn't mean you can be still seriously flawed. I'm reminded of a quote from one of the Harry Potter books (from Albus Dumbledore, I think) stating that being smarter makes your mistakes correspondingly larger.

It's a relief to see that Lloyd stopped short of killing Kylie and her sister. I kind of assumed the worse when he chased them into the house.

[mucat]

It's a relief to see that Lloyd stopped short of killing Kylie and her sister. I kind of assumed the worse when he chased them into the house.

Well, we knew Kylie would survive (or at least be raised), since she's alive in the present-day story.

Of course, Shylock was a sick sonofagun (most Venetians in Shakespeare's plays are), and Shakespeare was mocking his pretensions towards the moral highground. Shakespeare was no Ben Jonson, but Shylock's speech...isn't meant to be taken seriously.

I think Shylock's speech is absolutely meant to be taken seriously (and has been, ever since Shakespeare's day.) That's onw thing I love about Shakespeare's villains: just because they're the bad guy, doesn't mean they can't be absolutely right about something.

(And conversely, just because they're right, doesn't mean they won't turn around and act like hypocritical jerks.)

[Geno9999]

Of course, Shylock was a sick sonofagun (most Venetians in Shakespeare's plays are), and Shakespeare was mocking his pretensions towards the moral highground. Shakespeare was no Ben Jonson, but Shylock's speech...isn't meant to be taken seriously.

Ah, but just because you are the villain doesn't negate any of the good points that they bring up. There are times where you can get away with villains doing stuff for the Evulz (see: Joker), but often the best written villains are the ones where the audience can sympathize with his views and/or actions, making the villain more human.
Now, I can agree with you that Shylock is a bad guy, but he does bring up an excellent point about treatment of fellow human beings, one that I stop and realize that I actually agree with him.

[Mina Kobold]

Well, we knew Kylie would survive (or at least be raised), since she's alive in the present-day story.

How do we know she is alive?

This meeting may have deeper roots than any of us can imagine!

It could be... SPIDERS!

Giant, fluffy, large eyed, Disney-like spiders