Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!

[RdMarquis]

I'm thinking that everyone barges back into Lord Byron's room to find him not dead, but mysteriously rejuvenated. Ok, not really. Maybe I just like defying expectations.

[Cizak]

I don't get #108. Could someone explain it to me, please?

[Lycan 01]

May I say something? Or, more-so, theorize on something?

The Paladins of Kago don't fall because Astrid doesn't want them to. In regards to a specific Standard of Lawful Good, the Paladins of Kago are committing Evil deeds by stealing land and executing innocent civilians, "evil" or not. In the some of the DnD rulebooks, IIRC, it specifically states that a Paladin can fall for killing a defenseless prisoner. And the Paladins of Kago have clearly done much worse than that...

BUT, that is if you're going by a concrete standard of Good and Evil. But the Paladins of Kago are not held to that. They are held to Astrid's standard of Good and Evil, which is a bit off-kilter in certain regards. While the other gods would see killing a Drow child begging for mercy as Evil, Astrid would see it as Good. So while a Paladin of any other deity would Fall, followers of Astrid wouldn't. However, if they took a human prisoner and then chopped his head off before giving him a fair trial, or they blew up an Elven orphanage, Astrid would likely make that sucker Fall HARD.

But in regards to the killing the Plavian folks, the Paladins of Kago don't fall simply because Astrid says so.

[HalfTangible]

I don't get #108. Could someone explain it to me, please?

Explain what? The exposition? Or that they just found out that anybody who thinks they could get the throne could kill Byron at any time and lead to a massive crisis in leadership and cripple the entire country?

[CoffeeIncluded]

I don't get #108. Could someone explain it to me, please?

Explain what? The exposition? Or that they just found out that anybody who thinks they could get the throne could kill Byron at any time and lead to a massive crisis in leadership and cripple the entire country?

Exactly. Those wards were Elizabeth's, and even though they were strong, they haven't been really upgraded in years.

May I say something? Or, more-so, theorize on something?

The Paladins of Kago don't fall because Astrid doesn't want them to. In regards to a specific Standard of Lawful Good, the Paladins of Kago are committing Evil deeds by stealing land and executing innocent civilians, "evil" or not. In the some of the DnD rulebooks, IIRC, it specifically states that a Paladin can fall for killing a defenseless prisoner. And the Paladins of Kago have clearly done much worse than that...

BUT, that is if you're going by a concrete standard of Good and Evil. But the Paladins of Kago are not held to that. They are held to Astrid's standard of Good and Evil, which is a bit off-kilter in certain regards. While the other gods would see killing a Drow child begging for mercy as Evil, Astrid would see it as Good. So while a Paladin of any other deity would Fall, followers of Astrid wouldn't. However, if they took a human prisoner and then chopped his head off before giving him a fair trial, or they blew up an Elven orphanage, Astrid would likely make that sucker Fall HARD.

But in regards to the killing the Plavian folks, the Paladins of Kago don't fall simply because Astrid says so.

Thank you for explaining it so well!

EDIT: Aaarrgh, I can't wait; I'm starting tomorrow's update tonight.

[Alagaesian]

Or she herself become influenced by her worshipers using some sort of divine feedback or something.

Well, the deities that ascend to godhood through worship are created and shaped by the beliefs of their worshipers. Perhaps the pre-existing gods can also be influenced by the people who take up worship of them. Astrid originally disliked the Plaavan, manipulating her paladins and clerics to hate them as well by meddling with Detect Evil and other spells. With all her followers believing in this, she is influenced to hate the Plaavan more. This repeats until she approves of an all-out genocide against them and her worshipers are all to happy to perform it.

And, if gods' personalities and morals can be changed AFTER they became gods, then the three Plaavan deities may not necessarily be evil anymore. Maybe they did kill Salblaze in cold blood centuries ago while their followers were more brutal and Evil, but since their worshipers have repented and started becoming more Good, the deities have followed suit

Assuming the above theory is true, then if someone (aka, Team Gale) can convince Astrid/her followers that the Plaavan gods are more Good now, a chain reaction occurs that may eventually lead to forgiveness of the Plaavan. Or, if they're not going to get that best-case scenario and they'll only believe that the Plaavan are less evil than they once were, it will be at least enough to keep Kago from wiping them out.

[leakingpen]

I have the feeling that would change two things.

Jack and Squat.

Heck, Lloyd is gay, so it might work to her advantage. Maybe she'll turn into the guy from the old spice commercial.

Kinda my point. If she had a wang, he might be interested.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Heh, depends on whether or not he still considers himself with Lexi.

Know what? I don't care that I updated 6 hours ago. I can't hold in this update anymore. HERE IS FRIDAY'S UPDATE, POSTED AT MIDNIGHT.

#109: Just As He's An Angel

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And just so people don't get confused: THE TITLE OF THE COMIC IS A SARCASTIC COMMENT!!!

[HalfTangible]

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuun!!!!!

[Raging Gene Ray]

Well, the deities that ascend to godhood through worship are created and shaped by the beliefs of their worshipers. Perhaps the pre-existing gods can also be influenced by the people who take up worship of them.

That's how I always viewed deities - all their worshipers are extensions of themselves and vice-versa, like cells in a body that form a single oversoul or archetype. So slaughtering a few hundred orcs is like cutting off Rockwell's finger: an acceptable revenge for killing Salblaze.

Maybe they did kill Salblaze in cold blood centuries ago while their followers were more brutal and Evil, but since their worshipers have repented and started becoming more Good, the deities have followed suit.

I've also assumed that Astrid would know this if it happened by now. Partially because gods have divination powers and partially because it makes sense to keep an eye on your enemies and their beliefs.

Astrid just isn't listening to the pleas of the Plavaan anymore. She never did.

I don't see any reason why she should. They murdered Salblaze. End of story. Some things really are unforgivable. If someone murdered one of your loved ones should your first reaction be to just get over it and forget about them? If not, it seems hypocritical for hating Astrid for doing the same thing. If so, then you don't sound like much of a friend. (You here refers to some rhetorical audience, nothing personal, Coffee).

Or maybe she was so strickin with greif she went MAD! MAD I TELL YOU MAD!!! i'm ok.

I thought that was obvious right after storytime with Janine. If you don't love someone enough to go mad with grief, than you don't love them at all.

[Lycan 01]

You know, I was going to include along with my analysis of Astrid's will an examination of the phrase "Truth is subjective" and how it could apply. But then I decided it wasn't on topic enough, and deleted it.

Hindsight is 20/20... XD


On topic...


Well. That's different. There's a lot that can be read from this. He said that they believe what Astrid is "telling" them. Does that mean they're reading her messages wrong, or they aren't actually receiving messages from her?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well. That's different. There's a lot that can be read from this. He said that they believe what Astrid is "telling" them. Does that mean they're reading her messages wrong, or they aren't actually receiving messages from her?

Consider Rust and what he just did. (Raging Gene Ray, I just updated! This is a big update!) Shall I prescribe the salt to take in conjunction with every single one of his statements?

And the messages? The recent ones? ...You'll see! (Though I'm sure some of you will be able to reason it out.)

PS: What do you think of this update?

[Raging Gene Ray]

(Raging Gene Ray, I just updated! This is a big update!)

Yes, I posted that right after I read the comic.

I suspected a few comics ago that Elizabeth was killed in an "accident" for her views on the Plavaan, and that was done solely to expand a land-owning politicians portfolio and had nothing to do with avenging Salblaze. If Rust is doing this for similar reasons, than I still don't feel any different.

If Rust is killing one of Astrid's followers and if Astrid would kill her own allies and inflict the same grief on their friends and family that she experienced after Salblaze's death solely to keep up her personal campaign of vengeance, then I would agree that she is no better than the Plavaan gods.

And the messages? The recent ones? ...You'll see! (Though I'm sure some of you will be able to reason it out.)

PS: What do you think of this update?

Which wards was Rust fixing? If they were wards against Divinations to keep Astrid from seeing the hidden virtue of the Plavaan, then I don't see how he could be any kind of Good. Moral ambition and a desire to build a perfect world are GOOD qualities, despite some of the stories that complain about it. It needs knowledge and guidance to identify what virtue is, though. But those qualities rarely come into contact with one another due to knowledge becoming cold, apathetic, and detached.

What alignment are Don and the other gods of Knowledge, by the way?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yes, I posted that right after I read the comic.

I suspected a few comics ago that Elizabeth was killed in an "accident" for her views on the Plavaan, and that was done solely to expand a land-owning politicians portfolio and had nothing to do with avenging Salblaze. If Rust is doing this for similar reasons, than I still don't feel any different.

If Rust is killing one of Astrid's followers and if Astrid would kill her own allies and inflict the same grief on their friends and family that she experienced after Salblaze's death solely to keep up her personal campaign of vengeance, then I would agree that she is no better than the Plavaan gods.

No offense, but you missed two points:

Spoiler

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1. Elizabeth was genuinely killed in a training accident when practicing with Miles. Miles got about a third of his face (The top third) essentially burned off in the same accident.

2. I think we can now confirm that Rust is no celestial. Did you notice his eyes in the third-to-last panel?

Astrid had nothing to do with this. Rust is saying that the same people who believe that Lord Byron is a senile old man for saying that the Plavaan have a right to exist (Which they obviously do) also believe that he, Rust, is an angel (Which, somehow, I highly doubt. ). In the end, all that matters is that the people en masse believe that it's true. Because if they think it loud enough, then it becomes true--Or close enough.

EDIT: Isarus and Don are Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral, respectively. Most of the deities in Aequar are Something Neutral, the something being Law/True/Chaos. Since Astrid is Neutral Good, she's actually an exception.

And with that, good night.

[Raging Gene Ray]

No offense, but you missed two points:

1. Elizabeth was genuinely killed in a training accident when practicing with Miles. Miles got about a third of his face (The top third) essentially burned off in the same accident.

I shouldn't have said "assumed." I meant I "considered it possible." I was just trying to make a point and put forth a hypothesis (it really doesn't have enough backing to be called a theory).

2. I think we can now confirm that Rust is no celestial. Did you notice his eyes in the third-to-last panel?

Well, we can now with Word of Author. And no, I didn't see the red-eyes through the blue transparency, and even then, Righteous Wrath is something Celestials have, and it could just be for artistic effect to show he was ANGRY.

( AN-GU-REEE )

Astrid had nothing to do with this.

Spoilers! What, you thought it was obvious?

Rust is saying that the same people who believe that Lord Byron is a senile old man for saying that the Plavaan have a right to exist (Which they obviously do) also believe that he, Rust, is an angel (Which, somehow, I highly doubt. ).

Other people know about Byron's change of heart? I thought he only experienced it after a series of Out-of-Body journeys to the center of his mind while he was in a coma and the only one who knew about it was Rust. That he came out of the coma because Rust healed him and only decided to murder him when it became apparent he wouldn't be useful.

EDIT: Isarus and Don are Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral, respectively. Most of the deities in Aequar are Something Neutral, the something being Law/True/Chaos. Since Astrid is Neutral Good, she's actually an exception.

Sounds like moral apathy is kind of the norm in this world. Which is why other gods and demigods probably aren't bothering with helping Astrid analyze the situation and leaving her with only vengeance to cope with Salblaze's death. I could see a CN deity/being misinforming Astrid and the Plavaan, causing tragedy just to be NUTTY!

[Lord Raziere]

either heaven has actually been infiltrated by demons disguised as angels.....

or some other machinations are going on. This ain't racism anymore. This is cosmic-level mastermind scheming.

[blackjack217]

My prediction for the next comic:
Hyperion: speak with dead
Rust: ... crap
Also the curtains make it hard to see the red eyes of the demon

[dragongirl13]

Rust has redeye! I knew he wasn't a celestial the moment he started being all prejudiced... actually saw this coming. I mean, it's a perfect setup, isn't it? Mention that the wards are a little cracked and need replacement and if someone knew where the cracks were they could slip through, then rush back as if in defense of Lord Byron, and murder him when he expresses the knowledge that Astrid does not actually want them to commit genocide. I have read that a great many murders are actually committed by the person who reports them.

(I have also been reading a great deal of Agatha Christie lately.)

[CoffeeIncluded]

Sounds like moral apathy is kind of the norm in this world. Which is why other gods and demigods probably aren't bothering with helping Astrid analyze the situation and leaving her with only vengeance to cope with Salblaze's death. I could see a CN deity/being misinforming Astrid and the Plavaan, causing tragedy just to be NUTTY!

Actually, the gods have an unwritten rule about interfering with other gods/religions: DON'T DO IT UNLESS NOT INTERFERING WOULD CAUSE MASSIVE DESTRUCTION AND/OR DEVASTATION. They generally stay out of each others' affairs.

However, this could mean that they're quickly running out of patience with Astrid...

either heaven has actually been infiltrated by demons disguised as angels.....

or some other machinations are going on. This ain't racism anymore. This is cosmic-level mastermind scheming.

Oh yeah. Remember what I said about Xanatos Gambits and Pileups? Hm...What initially appears to be a generic gag-a-day comic about a paladin and his group segues into a tale about racism in its myriad forms and cosmic-level mastermind scheming. Nice description. Thanks!

Oh, and don't forget that there's going to be a direct sequel when this is over. When this comic is done, you might want to reread it before reading the sequel.

And yeah, Dragongirl. Rust...Rust is a sly scheming bastard. Do you guys like?

Also, did anybody notice what he said in the fourth panel?

[Alagaesian]

My prediction for the next comic:
Hyperion: speak with dead
Rust: ... crap

They can do better than that. They can flat-out Raise him, assuming that Hyperion is a high enough level cleric and Lord Bryon wasn't just dying of old age before Rust came along.

[HalfTangible]

They can do better than that. They can flat-out Raise him, assuming that Hyperion is a high enough level cleric and Lord Bryon wasn't just dying of old age before Rust came along.

If they believe he died of old age or Red Fever, though, they won't try it.

Er... i want to say i like Rust but... well, he's a damn bastard. I like him as a character in a story. As a person, though... I'd kill him myself if i had the chance.

[blackjack217]

but if you are a powerful outsider and your plan can be foiled by a single 3rd level spell your doing it wrong

[Symmys]

Knew it.
So Serrin's family is well known, even on the planes, for their skill with magic? That's impressive, to say the least.

[CoffeeIncluded]

They can do better than that. They can flat-out Raise him, assuming that Hyperion is a high enough level cleric and Lord Bryon wasn't just dying of old age before Rust came along.

Won't work. In Aequar, once you hit Venerable, you can't be raised, even if you don't die naturally.

If they believe he died of old age or Red Fever, though, they won't try it.

Er... i want to say i like Rust but... well, he's a damn bastard. I like him as a character in a story. As a person, though... I'd kill him myself if i had the chance.

Hehe, exactly what I was going for.

And yes, Symmys. You'll see to what extent relatively soon. I'll just say that Team Gale chose right when looking for a mage. You'll see.

[M@XWeru]

Yay, elder abuse! I've been waiting so long.

Though I was hoping you'd give the old geezer some character developing time before he kicked the bucket. Oh well, there's only so much you can do if you're bedridden and about to die, I guess.

[HalfTangible]

Hehe, exactly what I was going for.

I'm jealous

[dragongirl13]

Rust...Rust is a sly scheming bastard. Do you guys like?

Also, did anybody notice what he said in the fourth panel?

I do like. I mean, I don't like him as a person, but as an antagonist he is rather interesting and I am looking forward to seeing what his full plans are... and of course to seeing him get his much-deserved comeuppance.

Yes, I did notice. I have a feeling this might happen. Wouldn't that be just the perfect crime? Kill a guy under the pretense of helping him, and get made a general for it... and since the new Lord is selected from the Generals, he could become either Lord Byron's successor, or at least a Man Behind The Man. Although if he does take up a position of leadership, I'm expecting a good few paladins to fall, considering he's some sort of evil outsider. But then, they're not associating knowingly with an evil outsider, so they might not on that technicality. Rust really does have everything going for him here.

Also, he mentions the Peakanes. Seems Serrin's family is famous.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I do like. I mean, I don't like him as a person, but as an antagonist he is rather interesting and I am looking forward to seeing what his full plans are... and of course to seeing him get his much-deserved comeuppance.

Yes, I did notice. I have a feeling this might happen. Wouldn't that be just the perfect crime? Kill a guy under the pretense of helping him, and get made a general for it... and since the new Lord is selected from the Generals, he could become either Lord Byron's successor, or at least a Man Behind The Man. Although if he does take up a position of leadership, I'm expecting a good few paladins to fall, considering he's some sort of evil outsider. But then, they're not associating knowingly with an evil outsider, so they might not on that technicality. Rust really does have everything going for him here.

Also, he mentions the Peakanes. Seems Serrin's family is famous.

Thank you! And you know what the best part is? He's doing this on the fly. Methink the TvTropes page needs a massive update.

[dragongirl13]

Thank you! And you know what the best part is? He's doing this on the fly. Methink the TvTropes page needs a massive update.

Hooray for Xanatos Speed Chess!

[Alagaesian]

I've just noticed that the outer spikes in Rust's hairdo look a bit like devil horns.

And, yes, you're right, we really need to update the TV Tropes page.