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Thread: The Moyen Lands
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2010-11-30, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
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- Wellington, New Zealand
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Re: The Moyen Lands
My characters are comprised of 13 objects, and that is only once everything has been drawn and they have been grouped. In order to remove all the nodes I'd have to take into account segments of the body which were positioned in such a way to render the node-removing method near impossible, as well as all the minor details to each body 'segment'.
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2010-11-30, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Judging from his character designs, lots.
Also, node deletion (I do it sometimes) is more than just saying "Delete these nodes", you have to make new ones at the edge of the panel, you have to make sure the node deletion didn't mess up any of your lines, zooming in and out means that things you liked at a certain size become bad, as details become imperceptible, or minor flaws in your design become prominent.
Inkscape likes to get slow when you zoom in on detailed stuff, and you would need to fix your nodes for each character, each panel, also the background, any props, ect ect. With the level of detail DLB uses, he dosn't really need to use zooms to make his comic more interesting provided he dosn't just have his characters stand stock still talking to each other all comic (This also makes creating multiple panels much faster. Node deletion means you can't use that panel as the basis for another one that is more zoomed out). I'm not surprised he's decided to prioritize output over zooming.
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2010-11-30, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Ireland
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Unless you've already corrected the points I'm addressing (which doesn't seem to be the case here) I can't see how a buffer renders my advising you invalid.
Does Inkscape have a "Rasterise" option? If not, you could simply drag your panels into Photoshop or the GIMP, and do all the work there. Clipping masks are incredibly easy to do in raster programs.
I assure you, close-ups will greatly improve the antithetical quality of your comics.
It is hardly "no reason". It's one of the most basic elements of sequential art and cinematography. Open a comic book and it'll immediately be evident.Last edited by Mad Mask; 2010-11-30 at 06:38 PM.
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2010-11-30, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
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- Australia
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Lies.
Or, rather, I disagree.
Far too much work, for something I will hardly notice, does not seem like efficient comicry.
Very occasional close ups or zoom outs? Fine, it'll make the panel special. Doing it every panel? Heaps of work for something that's just... boring.
If it were easier to do, fine, then yes, I'd agree. But with the time and effort that would have to go into it, it's just not a reasonable compromise.
And even if it could be done with the push of a button, it would not "greatly improve the quality" of the comic. In the same way that Avatar wasn't a good movie simply because it looked pretty.
Current Avatar by Shoreward,
author of Cursed, of Course, a fantasy webcomic, right here on the forum.
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2010-11-30, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
Well, I'm sorry Mad, but I find the constant change in perspective kind of obnoxious. It's kinda like standing there holding down "Zoom in, zoom out" repeatedly whilst people are talking. It just looks like the cameraman is having an epileptic fit . Sure, it works sometimes, but only for effect, and in a comic where the characters are using templates and I would have to totally redraw them every panel to get decent perspectives going, it's hardly something that is worth it for me.
I own several comic books, and they can make easy use of perspective changes because they are hand drawn. They are, in effect, a different but similar medium. That Superman page? Obviously the rapid change in perspectives is because he's being thrown about the page, not just for fun. Not only that, but Inkscape does not have a 'true' "Rasterize" and seems to lose quality when the current "Make bitmap copy" is used. Moving it into another program is equally if not more inefficient and quality-destroying.
I do not personally see the point of rapid changes in perspective in a vector-art based comic, or at all, really. It doesn't add anything for me, and though it may add things for others I don't feel like spending time on something I don't personally enjoy. I use things like close ups and wide shots when I feel they are needed, and only when I feel they are needed, else they are just pretty for pretty's sake and lose all effect when used excessively.
I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I disagree with your assessments and believe that I should be allowed to run the comic the way I enjoy to. That's really all there is to it.Last edited by Darklord Bright; 2010-11-30 at 07:27 PM.
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2010-11-30, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Texas
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Make a border without a fill over the comic and overlap your panels like I do.
EDIT: To the nodes thing.Last edited by CrimsonAngel; 2010-11-30 at 07:27 PM.
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2010-11-30, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
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- Australia
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Than can get very messy and only works if the comic is surrounded by other panels.
To do the zooming in well takes effort, and it's just not worth doing it all the time.
Just look at Mad's first post here, and the comic he used as an example.
There were maybe two instances of zooming that actually mattered, and even those weren't necessary, and certainly didn't render the actual conversation any more interesting.
When there is a one-off panel that needs a zoom? Perfect, that's worth the effort to make it look good and give you a new perspective. But when you're considering doing it every single panel, it just reeks of trying too hard. It does not increase the quality of the writing, the artwork or the story. It does not make the characters better in any way. In short, it adds nothing worth adding to the comic except pretentiousness.
I'd rather let Bright make the comic the way he wants to, and just enjoy it. Random perspective changes will not increase my enjoyment. If anything, it will lessen it. More time spent making the comic, more trouble making the comic, less likely that making the comic will remain fun, all for... something that is either unnoticeable, boring or annoying.
Current Avatar by Shoreward,
author of Cursed, of Course, a fantasy webcomic, right here on the forum.
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2010-11-30, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
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- Texas
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Not if you only export the border.
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2010-11-30, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Canada, okay?! Yeeesh.
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
Right. Back to taking about what's happening in the comic...
Alright! Guns AND magic! This should be interesting. I've always wanted to see a setting (outside of JRPGs) that had both.
Lord Voldemort: Now it's time for you to suffer, Harry. Your magic is useless against my skill..."
Harry Potter: "How about THIS, MUTHA&%^! BOOM HEADSHOT!"
Last edited by Green-Shirt Q; 2010-11-30 at 10:35 PM.
AVATAR BATTLE ROYALE!
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2010-12-01, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Page 7
Spoiler
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2010-12-02, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
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- North
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Re: The Moyen Lands
*Only the sound of distant laughter is heard from Keveak's direction, it goes on for minutes on end*
V-very funny, keep up the-HAHAHA- good work, Br-r-HAHAHA-ightie
HAHAHAHA!Treasured Quotes
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2010-12-02, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-12-02, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Page 8
Story behind this one: I had hit writer's block that day, and had been sitting there unable to think of the next comic's dialogue.
So I didn't put any in it. Sorry if that bothers anybody, but the next couple make up for it.
Spoiler
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2010-12-02, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- ??Ph??
Re: The Moyen Lands
The lack of dialogue actualy works pretty well here. It conveys nicely the gist of the situation and the vague feeling of akwarness in it, particulary in a pannel 3.
Though it a little early to tell, storry look rather promising so far.
but seriously folks. Am I the only one seeing a Magic vs Technology angle developing?
@DL bright.
If you'll allow me two small critiques
Art, body proportions, wise, you should consider making the legs a little longer compared to torso, slightlywidder at the top and steming closer from each other.
'Moyen land' kinda sound terrible, too. is that supposed to somme 'moyen age' based barbarism ?Last edited by smuchmuch; 2010-12-02 at 07:44 PM.
I'm sig'ing in the rain, just sig'ing in the rain....
Somme old avatars, by meSpoiler
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2010-12-02, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: The Moyen Lands
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2010-12-02, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
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- The Primus Imperium
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2010-12-02, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
They already have average human proportions, if slightly stylised. I based them on actual human bodies. All differences between real humans and these templates are entirely intentional stylistic choices. Trust me, this appearance alone went through three iterations before it was finally settled as what I was using.
On the name, it is because the race was, in my previous comic, already called the Moyens. Moyen roughly means "Middle" in French, (but that was just me wanting the name to mean something in French) and obviously the Land where the Moyens come from is called the Moyen Lands at least by some. If you don't like the name, I'm sorry but it's not changing.
--
Aside from that, I never intended a magic vs. tech angle. DuShalle just thinks magic is inferior to his guns he's mass-producing, because his guns seem ruthlessly efficient and easy to learn compared to magic. Tech is only just beginning to become a serious practice after years of magical domination, so of course it's going to be met with some resistance. That's just the way people are. It's not a central conflict, and the opening comic did not imply a "Magic vs Tech" outlook either - it merely was trying to get across an "Out with the old order, chivalry is dead" angle since times were changing and knights can be shot dead even with platemail now.
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2010-12-03, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-12-03, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- ??Ph??
Re: The Moyen Lands
No the accepted translation for that is 'terre du Milieu'
From what i understand of the context explained abover and the way it seemed to be used here, the 'Moyens'' and Moyen' land' would tranlate more accurately as the 'Average ones' and the 'Average's country'.
I'm going to assume there's either an interesting storry behind that name or these peoples have a serious lack of self esteem about themselves.Last edited by smuchmuch; 2010-12-03 at 11:27 AM.
I'm sig'ing in the rain, just sig'ing in the rain....
Somme old avatars, by meSpoiler
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2010-12-03, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- The Primus Imperium
- Gender
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2010-12-03, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- Ama'varde
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
Half and half. I knew it was not a translation, if only because land is an English word. So I thought the name meant "middle lands" which could reasonably be a reference to middle earth. I never thought it was a translation. I was asking if it was a reference.
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2010-12-03, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
It doesn't mean anything, it's the name of the race. The land they live is therefore the land of their race, and it's not changing, as I've already stated. Why is this so hard to accept? Move on, please, people.
As I note, I've also stated that they're not actually French, and I'm just getting vaguely French-sounding names and words half the time, so the title literally means nothing more than it would if I had called it, say, "The Elven Lands".
Page 9
SpoilerLast edited by Darklord Bright; 2010-12-03 at 04:30 PM.
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2010-12-03, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- The Primus Imperium
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Re: The Moyen Lands
I'd bet that DuShalle is going to attack soon, but i'd feel bad for stealing money from whoever actually took the bet
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2010-12-03, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- On Paper
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Re: The Moyen Lands
Reputation won't make you bulletproof DeLanan.
So it's less "Magic vs Tech" and more "Old vs New" in general, which is something I like.
Come to think of it, DuShalle has multiple reasons to attack DeLanan. From the way he acted earlier, I'm willing to bet that DeLanan is a skilled spell caster, he's certainly very proud of his magic.
If DuShalle's purpose is to find a market for the guns he's making, he needs to prove to the other houses that they are worthwhile, so he approaches Lord DeLanan with the offer first.
If DeLanan says yes, then DuShalle says "Hey, You know these things are good, even Lord Delanan wants them, and we all know how confident he is in his magic".
If DeLanan says No, DuShalle attacks, using musketeers to defeat House DeLanan's spell casters. Then he says "Even the fame spellcasters of House DeLanan couldn't stand against my new weapons, don't you want to be on my side?"
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2010-12-04, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- North
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
Treasured Quotes
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2010-12-04, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
Page 10
Spoiler
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2010-12-04, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- North
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
See? that's why monologuing is bad, kids.
The mysterious stranger gets a gold star for his entrance, thoughTreasured Quotes
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2010-12-04, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Current Avatar by Shoreward,
author of Cursed, of Course, a fantasy webcomic, right here on the forum.
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2010-12-05, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- The Primus Imperium
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
i think it would be 'or was that just for my benefit'
Not a big deal. just saying.Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2010-12-05, 01:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
- Gender
Re: The Moyen Lands
Real people don't speak in perfect grammar, and what he said was as valid as what you did.