Metal Thread V - Defenders of the Faith

[Moff Chumley]

Eh, you guys know my feelings on symphonic/power/progressive metal. I find metal better when there's no effort at being epic, or deep, or anything like that: it's all about catharsis. Something like King of the Road is awesome, because the band completely becomes absorbed in the music. They know it's a kinda goofy song; they don't pretend otherwise. They just play it like their lives depend on it. Same with Sleep. I dunno if that makes any sense to anyone else...

[grimbold]

i get you Moff but i can't say i agree
i like power metal
still you make sense so i will not hold it against you

also
tomorrow i get my results back on my frozen infinity presentation and i wil share the presentations epic story

[toasty]

Eh, you guys know my feelings on symphonic/power/progressive metal. I find metal better when there's no effort at being epic, or deep, or anything like that: it's all about catharsis. Something like King of the Road is awesome, because the band completely becomes absorbed in the music. They know it's a kinda goofy song; they don't pretend otherwise. They just play it like their lives depend on it. Same with Sleep. I dunno if that makes any sense to anyone else...

See I disagree. Sure, the really, really cheesy stuff like say, Hammerfall is basically Narm. But I don't think that Blind Guardian or Nightwish come off as narmy. At least, they're not narmy there. I'm sure Blind Guardian and Nightwish have fallen into the realm of Narm at least once. (Wishmaster, if its not Narm, is some hilarious "lets just have fun" song).

[RedDeerJebediah]

Blind Guardian and Nightwish both fall well into the Narm spectrum, in my opinion - especially Nightwish. But I guess both bands convey exactly the kind of fantasy-tinged escapist aesthetic that they're going for. In other words: they're good at what they do, but it's not for everybody.

[grimbold]

Blind Guardian and Nightwish both fall well into the Narm spectrum, in my opinion - especially Nightwish. But I guess both bands convey exactly the kind of fantasy-tinged escapist aesthetic that they're going for. In other words: they're good at what they do, but it's not for everybody.

exactly
for me narm is part of the joy of power metal
i love fantasy novels so consequently i love fantasy music
i like how corny it is because it allows me to escape

[Makensha]

Speaking of Blind Guardian, I got the most recent (my first) Blind Guardian cd a few months ago and now want to look at what they've done in the past.

Anyone have a favorite BG album?

[Nomrom]

exactly
for me narm is part of the joy of power metal
i love fantasy novels so consequently i love fantasy music
i like how corny it is because it allows me to escape

That's how I feel too. I like my power metal to be cheesy and over the top. It's fun and let's me forget about life for a while. When things are going rough I don't really want to listen to something dark, I want stuff that makes me feel pumped up.

[toasty]

Blind Guardian and Nightwish both fall well into the Narm spectrum, in my opinion - especially Nightwish. But I guess both bands convey exactly the kind of fantasy-tinged escapist aesthetic that they're going for. In other words: they're good at what they do, but it's not for everybody.

I feel that Old Nightwish was a lot about Narm, but they're more "serious" now. Amaranth and Master Passion Greed are hardly Narm. Maybe the music vid for Amaranth might be (slightly), but that's about it.

Old Nightwish had plenty of Narm. Pre-century Child was fantasy/power metal cheese.

[Marillion]

Speaking of Blind Guardian, I got the most recent (my first) Blind Guardian cd a few months ago and now want to look at what they've done in the past.

Anyone have a favorite BG album?

My personal favorite of what I've heard is A Night at the Opera.

[zeratul]

Speaking of Blind Guardian, I got the most recent (my first) Blind Guardian cd a few months ago and now want to look at what they've done in the past.

Anyone have a favorite BG album?

Hard question since they're by far my favouriite band, but I would recommended picking up "live" next. It's a fantastic live album and has a lot of their best old tracks along with some fantastic performances from some more recent albums. Other than that I would just say stick to their last five albums, before that Hansi's vocals are.......hit and miss to put it nicely.

[Moff Chumley]

Nightwish is pretty damn narmy, from my point of view. *shrug*

[cleric_of_BANJO]

I feel that Old Nightwish was a lot about Narm, but they're more "serious" now. Amaranth and Master Passion Greed are hardly Narm. Maybe the music vid for Amaranth might be (slightly), but that's about it.

Old Nightwish had plenty of Narm. Pre-century Child was fantasy/power metal cheese.

Really? Really.

I just see it this way: Old Nighwish had a few really good songs (stargazers, Sacrament of Wilderness), and a whole lot of songs with no riffs but really nice vocals. Is it cheesy? Maybe, but who cares? If you're listening to Nightwish, you don't get to complain about cheese.

As for new Nightwish being more serious... Depends on what you think serious means. For example, I think that the first two Iron Maiden albums are far more serious than the latest two Maiden albums, as far as riffs and overall songwriting. However, it's easy to see that Iron Maiden were going for a more serious feel with their newest works - longer, slower songs, without nearly as much of the "fun" elements that they had in their early years. I would say the same thing for Nightwish - They have a more serious [I]style,[I] but, to me, the quality and originality of their work is a joke. They no longer have riffs - I know, they also didn't have riffs for the last couple of albums with Tarja, but her vocals were good enough to cover for that. So, no, new Nightwish is not more serious. Less fun, maybe, but that doesn't translate to a more serious approach to songwriting, which is what I look for in a "serious" band.

[Amiria]

Speaking of Blind Guardian, I got the most recent (my first) Blind Guardian cd a few months ago and now want to look at what they've done in the past.

Anyone have a favorite BG album?

I'm also a big Blind Guardian fan. Maybe this year I'll see them live for the first time, haven't decided if I visit Wacken this year.

My favorite Blind Guardian album ? That's a hard one, I like their first three albums and 1998's "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" most. But if I have to make a decision I say ... "Battalions of Fear", yes, their first one.

Early Blind Guardian is more like speed metal with fantasy-themed lyrics. Over time they became more power metal (also a bit more goth => so many plaintive singing by Hansi).

Blind Guardian don't knock my socks of anymore with their output in this millennium¹. Overblown, bombastic power metal with infinitely overdubbed plaintive (choral) singing. I know that many people really dig how Hansi's voice sounds / hath developed over the last few albums but I much prefer his rougher style on the earlier albums. More manly, less wailing and you can actually understand what he sings.

I recommend the live dvd "Imaginations Through The Looking Glass" over the live album. A good mix of old and new songs (up to "A Night at the Opera") and the next best thing to seeing them live.

¹ = sole exception: "... And Than There Was Silence" from ANatO, that song is a true piece of art and their bombastic sound is quite appropriate for it.

[Whoracle]

Fav BG album? Definitely Imaginations From The Other Side. They've hit the perfect balance between bombast and speed on this one. The earlier albums I like too, mainly because they've accompanied me during my teenage years.
The later stuff, while nice in its own right, is not really BG anymore, IMHO.

And for the live stuff: Tokyo Tales. 'Nuff said

Also: Savage Circus: The better contemporary Blind Guardian. Discuss.

[Killer Angel]

Anyone have a favorite BG album?

Nightfall in middle earth, Imaginations from the other side, and Tales from twilight world. Not necessarly in this order (depends on my current mood).

And for the live stuff: Tokyo Tales. 'Nuff said

Seconded.

[shiram]

The Live album is what I would recommend as well for Blind Guardian.
It features alot of their songs, and the live setting presents them in a great way.
I prefer the first 2 albums, but the production is sometimes uneven, so the live one takes care of that.

[Mythestopheles]

I have a mixed view of BG. I really like Imaginations from the Other Side, as well as Nightfall in Middle Earth. On the other hand, I don't really like most of their early work. They were my first power metal band, but I've drifted away over the years.

I've been listening to a lot of sludge/post metal recently (Cult of Luna and Isis in particular). Any recommendation for similar bands?

[zeratul]

I'm also a big Blind Guardian fan. Maybe this year I'll see them live for the first time, haven't decided if I visit Wacken this year.

My favorite Blind Guardian album ? That's a hard one, I like their first three albums and 1998's "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" most. But if I have to make a decision I say ... "Battalions of Fear", yes, their first one.

Early Blind Guardian is more like speed metal with fantasy-themed lyrics. Over time they became more power metal (also a bit more goth => so many plaintive singing by Hansi).

Blind Guardian don't knock my socks of anymore with their output in this millennium¹. Overblown, bombastic power metal with infinitely overdubbed plaintive (choral) singing. I know that many people really dig how Hansi's voice sounds / hath developed over the last few albums but I much prefer his rougher style on the earlier albums. More manly, less wailing and you can actually understand what he sings.

I recommend the live dvd "Imaginations Through The Looking Glass" over the live album. A good mix of old and new songs (up to "A Night at the Opera") and the next best thing to seeing them live.

¹ = sole exception: "... And Than There Was Silence" from ANatO, that song is a true piece of art and their bombastic sound is quite appropriate for it.

It's funny, this is pretty much the exact opposite of my thoughts on the band. I pretty much despise everything up unto somewhere far beyond unless it's done live, but the stuff they've done in the last 15 years or so is by far my favourite music regardless of genre. It seems like there's two main schools of thought on Blind Guardian, although I still don't get the appeal of their old stuff.
definitely benefit from good production quality, as lo fi doesn't suit their style at all, and I love the intricacy and layering of their recent albums, is this

Valhalla (89) and valhalla (2004)
The Former is hilarious, and a good example of what you should never ever do as a metal vocalist, the latter is in my opinion one of the most epic songs in the history of ever. Plus, metal doesn't get much better than this

The main reason I prefer Blind Guardian now aside from the fact that they

also with non live albums I would say it goes

Nightfall in Middle earth
A Night at The Opera
At The edge of Time
Imaginations from The other side
A Twist in The Myth

All are amazing albums, everyone go buy them now .

[grimbold]

on the bg discussion
i like nightfall on middle earth

now as to my presentation of frozen infinity
this is all true however the dialogue has been translated from the original french
first a little background
basically in my class there are two other metalheads, in addition there are a couple of people who are into metal but not actual metalheads. Because this class is an elective its open to kids from like 7th-12th grade. Theres a seventh grader in this class who knows literally no bands asides from the beatles and makes some very ridiculous dances up when we're studying new bands.
The presentation starts off fine i give a bit about the history of the band and talk about its influences
then the fun started
i plugged my mp3 player into the speakers to share the frozen infinity song "The Neverending Story" (one of my favorites btw)
The seventh grader starts playing a mediocre air guitar, a kid band him sees this and facepalms
the two metalheads start headbanging slowly and the music teachers eyes are slowly widening
i finish my sample of the song and one of the metalheads calls out
"So they're like in flames only with more brutal/better vocals?"
me; "Pretty much"
Teacher; "Its kind of brutal"
Metalhead (Who spoke before); Madame its not just brutal its pretty F***ing awesome
Teacher: Jawdrop
then there is a chorus of "Hell Yeah's" and "Up the Irons" and i played another song

surprisingly the teacher didn't get angry at us for swearing and just kinda rolled with it
also i got (the french equivalent of) an A
so thank you Whoracle for giving me material for an awesome music presentation

[Moff Chumley]

I've been listening to a lot of sludge/post metal recently (Cult of Luna and Isis in particular). Any recommendation for similar bands?

Om, Pelican, Kylesa, Black Tusk, Boris...

Most of 'em are more on the sludge end of the spectrum. If you have any cool post metal, lemme know. I'm trying to listen to more of that stuff.

[eyeofsaulot]

I've been listening to a lot of sludge/post metal recently (Cult of Luna and Isis in particular). Any recommendation for similar bands?

I feel like this is too obvious, but there's Neurosis which is a clear influence on the two bands you mentioned.

[grimbold]

I feel like this is too obvious, but there's Neurosis which is a clear influence on the two bands you mentioned.

i just checked them out
they are pretty decent

[Whoracle]

Glad to hear your presentation went well, grimbold :)

[RedDeerJebediah]

I've been listening to a lot of sludge/post metal recently (Cult of Luna and Isis in particular). Any recommendation for similar bands?

Besides what Moff already has mentioned (he always gets a head start on recommending great bands ), Red Sparowes is great, but it's probably more post-rock than post-metal, technically.

Mogwai also comes off as much heavier when seen live. Possibly just because they play so damn loud - after having finished the first song, Stuart Braithwaite immediately complained that Danish law prohibited them from playing any louder, and suggested that we "stopped voting for such idiots". It was by far the loudest concert I've ever been to.

[PsychedelicBard]

I know! Can you believe that these kids listen to Dream Theater and Star One?



But, teasing aside, Star One is just so painfully cheesy/gimmicky that I can listen to High Moon and Intergalactic Space Crusaders maybe once per year, each.

Hey, what this thread needs is more prog metal. You can never have enough!

[eyeofsaulot]

Red Sparowes is great, but it's probably more post-rock than post-metal, technically.

Speaking of Red Sparowes, one of their former members was in this band Battle of Mice (note: listen to it *loud*). It's one of those rare post-metal bands with a female vocalist. And they couldn't have found a better fit; Julie Christmas is bats**t insane. She doesn't do guttural vocals or anything like that, but her intensity puts the likes of Angela Gossow to shame.

[grimbold]

fail

Alestorm is touring europe
but not paris
:(

[Faulty]

Hey ya'll. I'm wondering, can any of you shoot some suggestions for mind screwy Black Metal my way? I'm thinking of stuff like:

The Axis of Perdition: Corridors, The Ichneumon Method and Deleted Scenes
Aborym: Kali Yuga Bizarre and With No Human Intervention
Diapsiquir: Virus S.T.N.
Blut Aus Nord: Work Which Transforms God

Thanks!

[eyeofsaulot]

Hey ya'll. I'm wondering, can any of you shoot some suggestions for mind screwy Black Metal my way?

If you like Axis of Perdition, Deathspell Omega is right up your alley. I've seen the two get compared a lot, most often because of their similar dedication to atmosphere and dissonance.

[Faulty]

If you like Axis of Perdition, Deathspell Omega is right up your alley. I've seen the two get compared a lot, most often because of their similar dedication to atmosphere and dissonance.

I'm familiar with DsO, but I used to always listen to Si Monumentum and Inquisitors. I haven't heard their most recent album but man this song is awesome. Thanks for pointing it out.