Metal Thread V - Defenders of the Faith

[toasty]

Never heard of Doro ???? Are you kidding me? She's been singing since 1984 and she still rocks. In the long run she outlasted Lita Ford, Girlschool, Vixen and other 80's chick bands. Check out her song with UDO

No. I've never heard of Doro. I've never heard of any of the other bands you mentioned either. Also, remember, I'm 19. The first "metal" song I listened to was "Ten Thousand Fists" by Disturbed.

Anyways, that song... what? Wait? What? Why is this being discussed in the metal thread. Its an 80s ballad thingie. I like this kind of music, sure, you know, when discussing how amazingly metal people are I tend to prefer people throwing out stuff like This

Neither Janet Jackson or Flyleaf are even remotely metal.

Flyleaf being titled "Alt. Metal" is kinda saying they're like Breaking Benjamin, which means they're a good band that is probably Hard Rock, but some people want to say their metal when they actually have few metal trappings. This is the closest thing I could find to metal and its NOTHING like even, This, which is... much more metal. (I'm being fair and ignoring the fact that Tuomas is my personal metal idol.

My personal favorites are "Symphony of Enchanted Lands" and "Dawn of Victory"...they are just jam-packed with power metal awesomeness.

My personal queen of metal would have to be the lead guitarist/vocalist for Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult.

But all the faux-blood is hiding her incredible features. Also: her voice is not near as powerful as the women I have mentioned.

I do have to admit, such a queen would be a nice off-set to Dio's generally power-metally ways.

[bloodlover]

It's discussed probably because... idk... 80's were the real metal years? You know... before nu-metal and other crap.

Also speaking of 80's metal -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_3TlrZLpQ0

[Moff Chumley]

I, for one, think metal only got really good in the very late 80s and early 90s, but I recognize that's not necessarily a popular opinion.

[ex cathedra]

I, for one, think metal only got really good in the very late 80s and early 90s, but I recognize that's not necessarily a popular opinion.

Agreed. I can't think of any good metal that was created before the late 80's.

[zeratul]

It's discussed probably because... idk... 80's were the real metal years? You know... before nu-metal and other crap.

Also speaking of 80's metal -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_3TlrZLpQ0

While there was lots of great 80s metal, and it was perhaps metals most iconic era, I am getting a little fed up with everyone talking about how the only real metal is the stuff from the 80s and everything now is crap when in actuality there is a thriving metal scene in Europe and in other areas that has been producing amazing music in the last two decades. All of my favorite metal albums were made in the last 20 years and I detest Nu Metal, Metalcore type stuff and whatever that Three Days Grace type **** is.

It's not a matter of the only good metal being 80s metal, it's simply that its the most easily available and well known good metal.

[Moff Chumley]

There's plenty of good American metal from the last twenty years, also... Sleep, Om, High on Fire, Acid Bath, Electric Wizard, et cetera. You know, the bands I always talk about in this thread.

[Marillion]

Agreed. I can't think of any good metal that was created before the late 80's.

Accept would like a word with you

And KMFDM might not do metal exclusively, my vote for metal queen has to go to Lucia Cifarelli. :smalldrool:

Honorable mention to Floor and Irene Jansen

[toasty]

While there was lots of great 80s metal, and it was perhaps metals most iconic era, I am getting a little fed up with everyone talking about how the only real metal is the stuff from the 80s and everything now is crap when in actuality there is a thriving metal scene in Europe and in other areas that has been producing amazing music in the last two decades. All of my favorite metal albums were made in the last 20 years and I detest Nu Metal, Metalcore type stuff and whatever that Three Days Grace type **** is.

It's not a matter of the only good metal being 80s metal, it's simply that its the most easily available and well known good metal.

This. Whats so funny about Metal is that its never really been an American thing. A few good American bands and artists have always been around, and sure Metallica, Slayer, and Megadeth were aweseome Thrash bands, but metal DID NOT DIE when Nirvana started talking about Teen Spirit, it just stopped being popular in the United States. Finland, the greatest nation known to mankind, just kinda laughed and started wearing more leather.

My point is, metal is very much alive. If you look at Music Charts in Europe Metal bands, real metal bands, not the semi-crappy mainstream "metal" that tends to get popularized in the US Chart all the time. Sure, they're not charting like Lady Gaga or whatever other mainstream music is out there, but they are making enough music to have LOTS AND LOTS of good metal bands preforming and touring all over Europe, South America and even sometimes the United States and Asia.

Edit:

Agreed. I can't think of any good metal that was created before the late 80's.

To add to that... Amon Amarth is pretty kickass

So is Nightwish

And while I'm at it... I cannot believe how mad I am that I missed these guys when they were on their Tour of the US. Maybe next time? When I have a car and not so much school work.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

Agreed. I can't think of any good metal that was created before the late 80's.

Wait... WHAT?!

Okay, I get that people are passionate about new metal, because I am one of them. I think metal has flourished more than anyone could have imagined. Probably more than half the music I listen to was created after the late 80s, and the amount of variation in the metal world (both in musical style and in country of origin) is absolutely incredible.

Now, from there, to saying that there was NO METAL from before the late 80s (I'm assuming that means 86-89) is a very, very large step. More like a leap, or a bound. Did someone say examples? No? Okay, maybe I'm hearing voices again, but I will give examples anyway!

BLACK SABBATH - One of the first metal bands, and arguably the best (although considering they haven't been active for a while, that might be a tough argument to win)

RAINBOW - Another original metal band, where The Lord our Dio really started his career.

DIO - Need I say more?

IRON MAIDEN - Still not convinced?

Metallica - yeah, it's been mentioned before, but considering how awesome Kill 'Em All is (awesome AND released before the late eighties), I think it's worth it.

JUDAS PRIEST - Let's not forget the Metal Gods themselves!

Alright, if you're not convinced, then I don't think there much more I can do for you. Let me restate: I AM NOT arguing that metal from before the late 80s is better than new metal. I am simply arguing that we should not simply forget about the classics just because there's newer stuff out there. You might like Wintersun or Amon Amarth more than you like Iron Maiden - but that doesn't mean you should forget about them.

[zeratul]

Wait... WHAT?!

Okay, I get that people are passionate about new metal, because I am one of them. I think metal has flourished more than anyone could have imagined. Probably more than half the music I listen to was created after the late 80s, and the amount of variation in the metal world (both in musical style and in country of origin) is absolutely incredible.

I'd second this as well, While I prefer the modern stuff in a general sort of way there was certainly lots of great metal in the early 80s and late seventies, including the heavy metal trinity of Iron Maiden, Judas Preist, and Black Sabbath. The big four of thrash all started out in the early 08s as well, not to mention early black metal stuff like Bathory and Celtic Frost. Tons of awesome stuff was boiling up in that period.

I would also say that the "bad" metal of that era was much better than that of ours. Give me Poison Warrant and Motley Crue over Bullet For My Valentine and Attack Attack any day.

[Moff Chumley]

I'd like to submit that the truly, truly awful stuff from the 70s and 80s has faded into much-deserved obscurity, and if we give stuff like Attack Attack a few more years, they'll end up there also. But that's quite a bit of a digression...

[bloodlover]

80's were the best years for metal. Actually I think 1980 was one of the best years in metal since in that year bands like Judas Priest, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Diamond Head, Saxon, Angel Witch,Ac/Dc etc released legendary albums. So I guess that year alone was better for this genre than the last 15-20 years put together.

Also Moff, what "truly, truly awful stuff from the 70s and 80s" are you talking about? 70's are 80' had better music than we do now... in every genre.

[Killer Angel]

Sometime, I envy myself, for being eighteen in that golden era...

[Klose_the_Sith]

If given the choice between metal from 1980-1990 and metal from 2000-2010 I'd pick 2000-2010 without a backwards glance, to be honest. And I don't listen to Nu/Core/Etc. these days either.

Classic Heavy and Power Metal were really good and so was classic thrash, but my modern Power, Folk, Death, Thrash and Black will win out every time in any personal favouritism contest.

[Nomrom]

Also Moff, what "truly, truly awful stuff from the 70s and 80s" are you talking about? 70's are 80' had better music than we do now... in every genre.

They still had bad music just like we do. But since that was 30 years ago, no one listens to the bad music anymore, so we can forget it ever existed. The only stuff we listen to from this period is stuff we like. You don't have to hear the bad music anymore, because it's mostly faded into obscurity.

[shiram]

Armored Saint is also one awesome early 80's band. Voivod and Fates Warning too.

I think metal has produced great albums all the time... maybe in varying quantities but there is always some good stuff to discover.
Different eras bring different vibes and new styles, and maybe one will prefer one era, but I would not dismiss any decade of metal, as there are gems in there for sure.

[FlashRah]

Going to a music festival in 9 days where I shall see Iron Maiden and Slayer. Hell yeah!

Just bragging...

[ex cathedra]

Wait... WHAT?!

-snip-

I didn't say that there wasn't any metal before the late 80's, just that practically none of it was good. I'm familiar with all of those bands, of course, and none of them are good.

80's were the best years for metal. Actually I think 1980 was one of the best years in metal since in that year bands like Judas Priest, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Diamond Head, Saxon, Angel Witch,Ac/Dc etc released legendary albums. So I guess that year alone was better for this genre than the last 15-20 years put together.

Also Moff, what "truly, truly awful stuff from the 70s and 80s" are you talking about? 70's are 80' had better music than we do now... in every genre.

I can't think of a single genre where that last statement is true.

[Moff Chumley]

Also Moff, what "truly, truly awful stuff from the 70s and 80s" are you talking about? 70's are 80' had better music than we do now... in every genre.

First of all, there are the genres that didn't even exist back then. Second, the concept that no one, in the last twenty years, has managed to match or surpass something from that era is outright wrong.

Spoiler

Show

ROCK: I'll take Arctic Monkeys, or Spoon, or Radiohead, over Zeppelin or The Stones any day of the week.
GRUNGE/ALT ROCK: Nirvana, Primus, Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Modest Mouse, et cetera. This one should be pretty obvious.
HIP HOP: Uh... Mos Def, Aesop Rock, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, MF Doom... this one is also pretty cut-n-dry.
ELECTRONIC MUSIC: Kraftwerk was cool, I'll give you that, but even THEY got better after the 80s. And honestly, have you heard 80s house? Truly awful.

...I could continue, but if I haven't made my point by now, I don't think I'm going to.

As far as metal goes, and bro, AC/DC is NOT metal, I think the genre's taken leaps and bounds in the last twenty years, and if you can't find something you like, that's because you haven't been looking hard enough.

[zeratul]

I didn't say that there wasn't any metal before the late 80's, just that practically none of it was good. I'm familiar with all of those bands, of course, and none of them are good.



I can't think of a single genre where that last statement is true.

What metal do you like aethernox? I'm trying to come up with a genre of metal that one could like that would enable their not liking the aforementioned bands and I'm drawing blanks.

on an unrelated note, I'm seeing Finntroll and Ensiferum this weekend! Should be an awesome show, hopefully with lots of folk moshing ^_^

[grimbold]

I didn't say that there wasn't any metal before the late 80's, just that practically none of it was good. I'm familiar with all of those bands, of course, and none of them are good.



I can't think of a single genre where that last statement is true.

What kind of 70s and 80s music do you listen to?
Everything there was brilliant! (except ABBA of course)
Have you heard the album Number of the Beast by Maiden?
Or Priests British Steel?
They DEFINED metal!

[toasty]

What metal do you like aethernox? I'm trying to come up with a genre of metal that one could like that would enable their not liking the aforementioned bands and I'm drawing blanks.

on an unrelated note, I'm seeing Finntroll and Ensiferum this weekend! Should be an awesome show, hopefully with lots of folk moshing ^_^

That show was supposed to be in Austin, but it got cancelled, I think because of "Snow" (yeah, it wasn't really that bad). Tell me how it was, I'm not a fan of either really, but it should be interesting.

edit: Also, old metal is not better or worse, its just ... older. We have better production quality now, maybe some more technically proficient guitarists with Neo-Classical guitarists being around. But to say Amon Amarth or Children of Bodom is better than Iron Maiden or old Black Sabbath or Dio is unfair, really unfair. They are different. They are a different era. Its like trying to compare current hollywood sci-fi movies to old ones. Obviously new ones look better, but that's... not fair. Star Wars Episode IV is still a great movie, even if District 9 had better special effects and maybe better acting.

[Narmoth]

What kind of 70s and 80s music do you listen to?
Everything there was brilliant! (except ABBA of course)
Have you heard the album Number of the Beast by Maiden?
Or Priests British Steel?
They DEFINED metal!

I'd like to have Black Sabbaths Heaven and Hell mentioned there as well
If we think a bit deeper, Rainbow and Scorpions should be mentioned as well.
Then you have Stormwitch, Cirith Ungol, Kreator, Celtic Frost, Merciful Fate, Savatage, Gary Moore.

[ex cathedra]

What metal do you like aethernox? I'm trying to come up with a genre of metal that one could like that would enable their not liking the aforementioned bands and I'm drawing blanks.

Black Sabbath is the probably the most likable band that I listed, but I was never really a fan. As for metal I like... Isis, Opeth, maudlin of the Well, Cult of Luna, Russian Circles, Agalloch, Kvelertak, Baroness, Acid Bath, Boris, Pelican, Arcturus, Fantomas, and Sunn O))) come to mind.

What kind of 70s and 80s music do you listen to?
Everything there was brilliant! (except ABBA of course)
Have you heard the album Number of the Beast by Maiden?
Or Priests British Steel?
They DEFINED metal!

Can we count 60's music? Because I like the Beatles, and my favorite King Crimson came out in '69... aside from that, I like Rush, and I think that ABBA made pretty good pop music.

I didn't really dig Number of the Beast, but I've only heard singles from British Steel. I don't see how those defined metal, since I like metal bands that don't play music that was defined by Priest or Maiden, directly.

[hustlertwo]

Ha, I responded before and didn't even notice my one-time Arena 2v2 partner Aethernox was here. And apparently still pretty fond of getting beaten, because trying to convince people that metal didn't exist before the late 80's in a thread about metal is probably a losing battle.

[ex cathedra]

I never stated that it doesn't exist. Not once. That's two successive misreadings on the part of two different posters at least. I simply said that I didn't think any of it was good. The generally low production value coupled with the fact that most of it evolved into power metal or thrash just disinterests me as a whole.

[Moff Chumley]

I never stated that it doesn't exist. Not once. That's two successive misreadings on the part of two different posters at least. I simply said that I didn't think any of it was good. The generally low production value coupled with the fact that most of it evolved into power metal or thrash just disinterests me as a whole.

This. There's plenty of metal before '88 or '89, but aside from Sabbath and similar, I don't really care about any of it...

[bloodlover]

I just stopped reading after Moff typed : "Radiohead over Zep". Yeah... it's no use.

Also 70's and 80' when it comes to rock had better bands than today no matter how much fanboys turn in around. I doubt a rock band today could ever match Queen for ex from any point of view. Better instrumental, better songs, better singer (don;t come and tell me that we have a singer better than Freddie now) and devoted fans that will never forget them. I wonder how many people will remember Arctic Monkeys 40 years from now.

If bands in the 70's and 80's were so bad, than how come so many people know and even use their songs after so many years? Please start making a difference between good music and mediocre/bad music and stop underestimating this genre.

Oh yes and I dare you to name me a guitar player, born after 1990 that beats Jimi Hendrix.

[Killer Angel]

This. There's plenty of metal before '88 or '89, but aside from Sabbath and similar, I don't really care about any of it...

Please elaborate, 'cause before '88, we have A LOT of exceptional metal.

Accept (restless and wild, metal heart, russian roulette)
Dio (holy diver, Last in line)
Scorpions (listen to World Wide Live)
Motorhead
Metallica (Cliff Burton's era)
Megadeth (peace sells is '87)
Helloween (walls of jericho and the first Keeper are before '88)
IRON MAIDEN?!?
and so many others that I could type for a full hour...

You really don't like/care of any of 'em?

[ex cathedra]

Radiohead is better than Zeppelin.

I honestly could care less about musicianship, as long as the composition is enjoyable. On that note, I thought that Queen had horrible songwriting, as they all seemed to alternate between vocal and guitar wankery. Freddie Mercury was a proficient singer. He doesn't really suit my style, but I don't see how you can fairly compare him to other singers regardless of style and say that he's "better."

But you're right in that third paragraph. If a musician is popular, how couldn't they be good? There's pretty much nothing that can contest that.

What genre am I underestimating, exactly? The "time before the late 80's" isn't a genre, you know. Some of it was good, a lot of it was okay, and a lot of it was terrible. That which was good generally isn't as good as what exists today, in my opinion. This is probably because there is more music that is more easily available, plus the fact that production quality has in general improved.