Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction]

[Elfin]

Thanks very much, Timeless.
I'll start covering stances now.

[MeeposFire]

I remember a tornado throw build that was among the most damaging in the game. It was absolutely nuts. Too bad it was a crusader build.

[Endarire]

Chuck E. Cheese set the land speed record for its time. It uses Crusader, Cleric, and Swordsage for its base classes.

[MeeposFire]

Yea I think that was it. So it did use swordsage yay. That build is hilarious.

[poignant123]

For instance using mountain tombstone strike and then using raging mongoose on the target.

Doesn't work, because the Tome of Battle section that pertains to Strikes mentions:

Because strikes allow for a specific form of attack,
you cannot benefit from spells or effects that grant
you extra attacks when making a strike (such as the
haste spell or a speed weapon).You are not taking a
full attack action when you initiate a strike, even
if its initiation action is 1 full-round action.

I would say otherwise for Time Stands Still, because it specifically mentions you take 2 Full Attack actions.

[Rasman]

I...think I just fanboyed...

[Amphetryon]

I fully acknowledge it's situational, but I love the idea of a debuffs-focused Swordsage as the skillmonkey/skirmisher in a group built around debuffing. Combined with a Hexblade and a Dread Necromancer, for instance, a majority of enemies can be rendered helpless.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Level 9 Maneuvers

Desert Wind

Spoiler

Show

Inferno Blast - Eh, I'm sure the political power of being able to burn down an army, neighborhood, or village every 12 seconds must be immense. But against CR-appropriate monsters? This won't do much.

In a wartime campaign, this is awesome. You could kill a significant part of the opposing force(including catapults and siege towers).

[MeeposFire]

Doesn't work, because the Tome of Battle section that pertains to Strikes mentions:

Because strikes allow for a specific form of attack,
you cannot benefit from spells or effects that grant
you extra attacks when making a strike (such as the
haste spell or a speed weapon).You are not taking a
full attack action when you initiate a strike, even
if its initiation action is 1 full-round action.

I would say otherwise for Time Stands Still, because it specifically mentions you take 2 Full Attack actions.

You are write from what you are writing since all you mention are based off of using a full attack. Mongoose does not require a full attack. It is similar to the snap kick feat. Mongoose just requires the use of an attack and then it lets you use the boost to make additional normal attacks at your full attack bonus. Your point only stands when something says it needs a full attack action or the sort.

[2xMachina]

No Stance review?

[Greenish]

I already gushed about it in the warblade handbook, but the Revenant Blade is awesome enough to mention in here too.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I already gushed about it in the warblade handbook, but the Revenant Blade is awesome enough to mention in here too.

Yeah, it's awesome for guerrilla warriors(mobility) and TWFers.

[MeeposFire]

One thing that many people forget in a generic campaign that does not allow necklace of natural attacks, battlefists, or the other common unarmed attack boosters the best way to boost your unarmed attack is the standard guantlet. Monks cannot do this because they are not proficient with them and they cannot use them with a flurry of blows but swordsages (unarmed or otherwise) do not have this problem. Guantlets allow for the improved unarmed damage as well (as per page 21 of the main 3.5 FAQ) so until you get something better (such as a battlefist) guantlets are an unarmed swordsages best friend, unless you are using shadowblade.

Remember even with just superior unarmed strike a guantlet clad swordsage with snap kick is awesome.

[Devmaar]

One thing that many people forget in a generic campaign that does not allow necklace of natural attacks, battlefists, or the other common unarmed attack boosters the best way to boost your unarmed attack is the standard guantlet. Monks cannot do this because they are not proficient with them and they cannot use them with a flurry of blows but swordsages (unarmed or otherwise) do not have this problem. Guantlets allow for the improved unarmed damage as well (as per page 21 of the main 3.5 FAQ) so until you get something better (such as a battlefist) guantlets are an unarmed swordsages best friend, unless you are using shadowblade.

Remember even with just superior unarmed strike a guantlet clad swordsage with snap kick is awesome.

Spiked gauntlet is better as you count as being armed.

[MeeposFire]

Spiked gauntlet is better as you count as being armed.

Ah but spiked gauntlets do not deal your unarmed damage, they always deal 1d4. Standard gauntlets deal your unarmed damage which if you have superior unarmed strike could be 2d6 at high levels (and even higher if you use unarmed swordsage variant). Further since we are talking about unarmed swordsages they would have imp unarmed strike (or monk UA if unarmed swordsage) which allows you to be armed.

Spiked gauntlets only have an advantage over other weapons because they cannot be disarmed and a free way to add defensive weapons without using them.

So standard gauntlets are the best for unarmed swordmages that cannot get necklace of natural attacks or battlefists.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Are there actually any supernatural abilities in the setting sun discipline? I've looked through all of the setting sun maneuvers and stances and haven't found any.

[Corrik]

Giving this one a bump, don't want to see it fall to the wayside.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Giving this one a bump, don't want to see it fall to the wayside.

It was only a week since anyone posted.At least I waited nine days.

[Drynwyn]

Nice! This will be most useful to me. Useful indeed.
Burn, Dungeon Master, in the face of my blatant munchkinry.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Nice! This will be most useful to me. Useful indeed.
Burn, Dungeon Master, in the face of my blatant munchkinry.

And min-maxing! And optimizing!

[Corrik]

Taking the forum restructuring as an excuse to give this a bump.

[Endarire]

It's been awhile since we got updates. So, any updates?

[Forbiddenwar]

Thanks for doing this. It's been very helpful.
Could I suggest for a mobile fighter, take some tumble?

As for stances:
I've found Islands of blades to be very helpful at first level. And once you get sneak attack, it can mean a sneak attack with every attack.
And then comes the sneak attack snap kicks.

Edit: Oh and

Roles: Why You Walk the Way
Tank – You’re simply not a tank, with a low hit die, light armor proficiency, and class features that reward mobility.[/spoiler]

made me laugh, because my VoP unarmed swordsage has the highest AC in the party. ( which means the fighter must be doing something wrong) Heaven forbid those criticals though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It's been awhile since we got updates. So, any updates?

Sadly Elfin hasn't been online since february so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Sadly Elfin hasn't been online since february so I wouldn't hold my breath.

In the warblade thread, someone suggested copy/pasting the stuff onto a new thread.

[Dusk Eclipse]

In the warblade thread, someone suggested copy/pasting the stuff onto a new thread.

Not really sure, that seems a bit disrespecrful; though it isn't a bad idea per se.

[Drynwyn]

Hooray! I a) got my swordsage's AC to hit 35 and b) figured out a way to dish out 24d6 points of damage in one round using a single maneuver!
With a level twelve build.
BURN, DUNGEON MASTER! BUUUUURRRRRNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Technique will be coming in a few days. I want to see if anyone else can figure it out.
HINT: Tactical feat.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Hooray! I a) got my swordsage's AC to hit 35 and b) figured out a way to dish out 24d6 points of damage in one round using a single maneuver!
With a level twelve build.
BURN, DUNGEON MASTER! BUUUUURRRRRNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Technique will be coming in a few days. I want to see if anyone else can figure it out.
HINT: Tactical feat.

Alight, it's been a few days. Can you tell us?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Skills not yet rated:

Heal - Not even Clerics take this. Pass.
Hide - Swordsages can easily take the 'forward scout' role. For this, you need Hide and Move Silently.
Intimidate -If you want to go that route, it can be used to lockdown. Otherwise, don't bother
Jump - When used with the Tiger Claw maneuvers (including Pouncing Strike), it can be very nasty.
Knowledge (History) -
Knowledge (Local) -
Knowledge (Nature) -
Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) -
All knowledge skills: depends on what your party needs and if you took a dip in Cloistered Cleric for Knowledge Devotion or not.
Listen -Nothing sucks like getting surprised
Martial Lore - Not very useful unless your GM throws a lot of ToB classes back at you
Move Silently - See the Hide entry
Profession - It's Profession, did you expect anything different?
Ride - Swordsages don't even have the 'ubercharger with a mount' excuse.
Sense Motive - In addition to being used to counter Bluff used to Feint in combat to avoid a nasty sneak attack, it's use with Setting Sun cannot be underestimated. Particularly when it is combined with Baffling Defense, it is even better
Swim - How often do you really need to use this?
Tumble - Bypass AoO's while closing for the kill? Check. Bonus to AC when you don't want to get hit? Check. Definition of a mobility-enhancing skill? Check. Get this? Check.

[Kaeso]

Not really sure, that seems a bit disrespecrful; though it isn't a bad idea per se.

It does, but if Elfin doesn't finish this handbook it might be good to let a few other playgrounders finish it.