[3.P] The Summoner's Handbook: A Guide to the Pathfinder Summoner

[JadePhoenix]

PC wants;
A to show up behind the enemy's front line to flank with Rogue
B to show up three squares away from A, to flank with Fighter
C to be in the enemy's caster's face.

Whichever one of these doesn't show up can make a big difference.


If, however, your ruling is (like mine) that the PC gets to choose square X for the summoning, and the first one gets that square, and any others are randomly placed in surrounding squares, then no, it does not make a difference.

Even if you do choose the first option, a random roll is unnecessary. Just use 1, 2 and 3 instead of A, B, C. In a roll of 1, only 1 comes up. In a roll of 2, 1 and 2 come up. In a roll of 3, all come up.
Makes more sense, requires less rolls and the player at least get to choose somehting (if he really needs a specific position, just put it in the first slot).

[Bharg]

Great Handbook Saph!

But isn't it really weird to play this? I could imagine that in the end it is way more fun to control the Eidolon than it is to control your "side-kick" wizard...

[Cieyrin]

Great Handbook Saph!

But isn't it really weird to play this? I could imagine that in the end it is way more fun to control the Eidolon than it is to control your "side-kick" wizard...

It totally depends on how you pursue the class, as I'm currently playing a Summoner and Eidolon, whose disguised as the Summoner, so they equally melee and generally keep the confusion of whose the Summoner and whose the Eidolon, with occasional spells as needed. It works pretty well, though the Elven Curveblades aren't hurting in the slightest. Teamwork feats between the Summoner and Eidolon actually work pretty well as well, like Lookout.

[grarrrg]

We now present another Evil Idea from grarrrgco. Labs!

Synthesist
+
Improved Eldritch Heritage
+
Strength of the Beast (Orc Bloodline)
=
A Strength boost that applies both to Summoner AND Eidolon-form!


Rulings!
A Synthesist Eidolon-Form uses the Summoners Abilities/Feats/etc... so long as there is no conflict (i.e. an Eidolon-Form with only 14 Dex doesn't qualify for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, even if the Summoner does, so it can't use it).
The Str Bonus from Orc Bloodline (Abyssal works too!) is granted through Feats, and an Eidolon-Form keeps your CHA score, so it still qualifies for the feats getting the STR bonus!

This would also work with a multi-class Synthesist/Sorcerer build, but that would just be silly!

[cstaufer]

Can folks share some of the feats they've selected as well as magic items they've used on their traditional, not Synthesist, Summoner for the first 10 or so levels of play?

Guessing much of the gear focus on the Summoner is keeping them alive.

Thanks!

[sol_kanar]

Can folks share some of the feats they've selected as well as magic items they've used on their traditional, not Synthesist, Summoner for the first 10 or so levels of play?

Guessing much of the gear focus on the Summoner is keeping them alive.

Thanks!

I created my Summoner directly at level 13th, so my answer might not be useful: anyways, for defense I took an item of Resistance +4 and a Mithral chain shirt +1. Yeah, my AC is extremely low, but it's very hard to pump it up without focusing a lot of effort on it: also, during most encounters, the first thing I do is to turn invisible. So, I preferred to spend the money on an item of Charisma +6, a Rod of Extend Metamagic, a ring of Use Magic Device +5 and assorted scrolls: there are no full casters in the group, so I spent some of the budget on "emergency" one-shot items, such as scrolls of Heal and Restoration.
Probably a Rod of Lesser Extend Metamagic would also have been a good choice.

My Eidolon, on the other hand, has a Belt of Giant Strength +4, a Cloak of Resistance +5, an Amulet of Mighty Fists +1, a Ring of Invisibility (yeah, I prefer to keep it invisible because it may scary people) and Bracers of Armor +3.

[Zyrnak]

Is it just me or are summoners crazy powerful? At first glance I can see an Eidolon doing some insane damage at just level 6 with:

Quadruped
Limbs+Claws
Improved Damage Claws
(Feat) Improved Damage Claws
Rend
Enlarge Person
Energy Attacks

You die type goes from 1d4(base) -> 1d6(Evolution) -> 1d8(Feat) -> 2d6(Enlarge) -> 3d6(Energy)

You're getting 4 attacks at full base attack bonus (on the charge if you throw in pounce) that do 3d6+Str damage, with a free auto-hit if you land 2+ claws. Tack on to that flight, even better damage scaling at higher levels, and the summoner full of buff spells for the party... seems like you've got a class that is miles better than anything less than a wizard.

[grarrrg]

Is it just me or are summoners crazy powerful?... seems like you've got a class that is miles better than anything less than a wizard.

Which is why it is considered High Tier 3/Low Tier 2

[elPatalan]

Hello everybody

I know melee eidolons are very popular, but still I want to play a ranged weapons kali-esque eidolon. I think an eidolon can only have one longbow (it only has one only good hand) so I think I need another weapon.

I want considerations about its construction options too

Thank you

[deuxhero]

Pretty sure a longbow needs 2.

I'm going to assume no guns in your game... Hand Crossbow or even Sling (costs 2 feats and a skill point over hxbow's 1, but adds strength mod to damage) might be viable. You only need 1 hand for reloading all of them, so with Rapid Reload.

[jaybird]

Can folks share some of the feats they've selected as well as magic items they've used on their traditional, not Synthesist, Summoner for the first 10 or so levels of play?

Guessing much of the gear focus on the Summoner is keeping them alive.

Thanks!

Created my Summoner at level 8, in an "urban insurgency" sort of setting where magical items on the PC side are considerably tight (MagicMart is out of the question, we need to craft most powerful items), but to make up for it we all have Leadership for free.

Half-Elf:
1: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1HF: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
3: Augment Summoning
5: Craft Wondrous Item
7: Improved Initiative

Once he hit level 9, he picked up Expanded Arcana.

Regarding items, the main ones were:
+4 CHA
+3 cloak
Lesser Rod of Extend (for 16 hours of Mage Armor on the Eidolon)
Lesser Rod of Persistent (for all those wonderful SoS spells in Conjuration)
Wand of Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon
Handy Haversack

Regarding AC - I didn't find it all that big of a deal, because you won't really have anything particularly good - low 20s if you try? I'd rather sit behind my Eidolon with AC 31 and fling enough spells (Summoners can Lesser Quicken Black Tentacles, Dispel Magic, and DimDoor, for a start...) that nobody can get close enough to make AC matter. A 3/day item of Mirror Image could be useful as a panic button, though...

EDIT: 3/day Mirror Image can be obtained for 8640 gp - relatively trivial for a medium level character, I'd say. Of course, you'd only get 1d4+1 images, but hey, even at its worst, 66% miss chance dropping to 50% miss chance is way better then 20% miss chance from Blur.

[deuxhero]

Damn shame you can't just buy a +2 headband without messing with your charisma item (either paying more or forgoing it) or paying double for an ioun stone (and a 500 GP wayfinder tax to keep it from shouting "DESTROY THIS!"), otherwise it would be nice to have at higher levels for the extra skill.

[elPatalan]

Pretty sure a longbow needs 2.

I'm going to assume no guns in your game... Hand Crossbow or even Sling (costs 2 feats and a skill point over hxbow's 1, but adds strength mod to damage) might be viable. You only need 1 hand for reloading all of them, so with Rapid Reload.

Thank you... I've reread the guide (thanks Saph) and I know now why people play melee eidolons, you get your eidolon killed and tomorrow you get your eidolon again with half its hit points... why bothering getting your eid safe?

[Bharg]

I'm kind of repeating myself here, but still :
Is an Eidolon better than a fighter of the same level?
Is it more fun to control than said fighter and its summoner?

[Barstro]

Don't expect too much by way of good answers.

Is an Eidolon better than a fighter of the same level?

Eidolon is probably better than a fighter of the same level. Eidolon and the Summoner working together will certainly be better.

Is it more fun to control than said fighter and its summoner?

Not sure what your question really is, but the answer would still be "depends on what you consider to be 'fun'"

[QuidEst]

This is a very handy guide! It'd be nice to have some updates for the newer content that's been released. Good bloodlines to take, some of the spell additions, etc.

A thought on Stoneskin… the cost is 250 gp for one use, with time to spare. If you're willing to spend a 4th level slot instead, Stoneskin Communal covers both you and your Eidolon buddy for half the time (but all the DR) for 200 gp. If you just want your Eidolon, well, that's a mere 100 gp, and a much nicer deal.

[Arbitrarious]

I'm kind of repeating myself here, but still :
Is an Eidolon better than a fighter of the same level?
Is it more fun to control than said fighter and its summoner?

Just by itself, no. The fighter will slightly edge it out if decently geared. Unfortunately it's never by itself. Support from the summoner, including the possibly broken evolution surge line, makes this a TKO for the eidolon. While the summoner can spread some of the love around, many of his best spells will only work on his eidolon.

It is infinitely more fun to control a summoner then a fighter. If you want simple, it plays well. If you are willing to put a little more thought into your play you have a wealth of options that fighters simply cant match. Not to mention breaking the action economy and tag teaming enemies by yourself. Or just find a nice place to hide (or stand invisible in front of them) and spam your summon monster SLA and wear them down.

[deuxhero]

Don't think it was mentioned when feats outside of the included sources were done, so...

Because you alreddy have the Spell Focus, Varisian Tattoo (+1 CL on 1 non-divination school) could be useful. I can't think of any spells that benift greatly beyond the +1 to duratation, but there must be something.

[Cieyrin]

Don't think it was mentioned when feats outside of the included sources were done, so...

Because you alreddy have the Spell Focus, Varisian Tattoo (+1 CL on 1 non-divination school) could be useful. I can't think of any spells that benift greatly beyond the +1 to duratation, but there must be something.

Summoners do have most of Conjuration's Save or Sucks, plus it gets you to higher amounts of transport and range with Dim Door earlier. Varisian Tattoo (Conjuration) is a fine feat for a Summoner trying to find further mileage out of Spell Focus (Conjuration) beyond Augement and Superior Summoning.

It should also be mentioned that a Summoner probably wants to get their hands on some Runestones of Power, as they're essentially extra slots per day with a price tag. Considering casting's the Summoner's schtick besides herding their Eidolon around, it's well worthwhile, especially since they don't take up an equipment slot.

[maraxion]

Hi.
Iv read a lot on this post and its amazing with information im sure to use against my DM.

There is one thing with the attacks doh, I dont understand.
The guide says this that the primarly attack uses full attack bonus, and that secondary has a -5 and half strength.(-2 on multiattack) And that its the 1. attack that ha no penalties.
But after reading the advanced players guide I was a bit stumped cause it says:
"All natural attacks are made using the eidolon’s full base
attack bonus unless otherwise noted (such as in the case
of secondary attacks). Eidolon attacks add the eidolon’s
Strength modifier to the damage roll, unless it is its
only attack, in which case it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength
modifier."
And when you go further down to Evolutions both claw, bite and slam are called Primary attacks, while pinchers and tail slap is secondary.
It would then seem to me that nomather how many of the primary attacks you have, you would not have any penalty as it says "All natural attacks are made using the eidolon’s full base
attack bonus unless otherwise noted (such as in the case
of secondary attacks)" And those would be tail slam and pinchers whitch are described as secondary in the text.
So as far as I understand, you wil not need the multiattack for bite, claw and slam because they are primary attacks and has no penalties no mather how many?

Also if you check the feat itself it says secondary attacks. But as noted, bite, claw and slam are primary, not secondary. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monste...iattack-combat

Also, why do you want to have claws over slam, when slam gives you so mutch more damage?

[grarrrg]

So as far as I understand, you wil not need the multiattack for bite, claw and slam because they are primary attacks and has no penalties no mather how many?

Also if you check the feat itself it says secondary attacks. But as noted, bite, claw and slam are primary, not secondary. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monste...iattack-combat

You are correct, when it comes to the Eidolon's Bite/Slam/[other primary], Multi-attack will do nothing for you.

But, you'll notice that the Eidolon's Secondary attacks generally have better damage.
Claws (prime) 1d4 ea.
Pincers (second) 1d6 ea.
Tail Sting (prime) 1d4 ea.
Tail Slap (second) 1d6 ea.

So when you get Multi-Attack it is up to you whether you want the better accuracy of Primary attacks, or the better damage of Secondary attacks.
Before you get Multi-Attack it is just best to stick to Primary attacks, as the -5 to-hit is pretty harsh.

Also, why do you want to have claws over slam, when slam gives you so mutch more damage?

Claws are SOOO much cheaper/easier.
Two Claws cost 3 Evolution Points (2 point Arms, 1 Point to add 2 Claw attacks).
One Slam also costs 3 Evolution Points (2 Arms, 1 to add 1 Slam).

So for 3 points you can have TWO Claw attacks at 1d4+STR ea. OR ONE Slam at 1d8+STR.

Ideally, all Eidolon's would use Slams and not Claws, but most cannot justify spending double the Evolution Points.

[deuxhero]

The ARG adds an archetype for Half-Elf summoners. It

1: Replaces Summon Monster with SNA
2: Gives extra evolution points at the cost of not being able to pick some evolutions, and from a quick check, Magic Attacks and Energy Attacks are the only 2 on the list that aren't awful anyways. They makebetter Slugger and Kali builds build because you get martial weapon proficiency through a feat, not the banned Weapon Training.

I'm a bit annoyed Kitsune didn't get any summoner support, as it would fit the myths and pop culture of the species. I suppose Abe no Seimei and Yasunori Kato are humans with Kitsune heritage and not actually Kitsune though.

[Rhatahema]

^I was looking at that archetype myself. You lose access to Immunity, which I saw as being a pretty valuable option. I'm planning on playing a Synthesist in an upcoming game, and grabbing on the fly energy immunity via Evolution Surge. Of course you still have access to protection from energy. Having trouble making a decision. Also, I guess it's debatable whether the archetypes work together, but I didn't notice any mechanical conflict.

I wonder if Evolution Surge circumvents the restricted evolutions of the wind caller archetype.

[ThiagoMartell]

Hi.
Iv read a lot on this post and its amazing with information im sure to use against my DM.

That's not going to end wel...

[deuxhero]

One build type if you use Eldritch Heritage:Sylvan (and it is allowed) on your Summoner is a Valkyrie build. It doesn't work till 3/5 and comes fully online at 9, but still neat (plus before it is fully online is still a functional slugger build).

Sample build



Valkyrie (9th-Level)

Spoiler

Show

Form: Biped (Quadreped is legal strictly raw and can pounce, but its absurd and devs said they wouldn't allow pounced mounted charge because it makes no sense)
Evolutions: Reach (weapon, 1), Ability Increasex4 (Strength, 4), 8/10 spare.
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency (Lance), Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge.
AC: 6 natural+3 dex+4 mage armor
Attack: Lance +14+lance mods+Strength items (1d8+6+lance+belt, 3x damage on charge)
Buffs to Use: Mage Armour, Enlarge Personx2
Animal Companion: Roc

Also of note is that it will likely keep people from complaining about slowing down play compared to using Sylvan AC separately because the two move at once.

Edit: Looks like this may be the one time Weapon Training is actually useful, as you aren't buying flight and size increases. This downgrades a fully realized Valkyrie to 6th level.


Valkyrie (6th-Level)

Spoiler

Show

Form: Biped
Evolutions: Weapon Training x2 (4), Ability Increasex2 (4), reach (weapon, 1). 1 free if half-elf
Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge
AC: 2 dex+4 natural+4 mage armor
Attack: Lance+9+magic items (1d8+9+magic items, 3x on charge)
Buffs to use: Enlarge Person x2, Mage Armor
Animal Companion: Horse

Also this also makes me note the lack of weight given for Eidolon.

[Andvare]

Cosmopolitan L: Not only do you get ANY two skills based on a mental stats as class skills, you get two languages (which is not irrelevant when summoning) for free. Possibly the best trait.

Isn't this because it is actually a feat, not a trait?
Or are local feats treated differently?

Also, maraxion, claws give access to rend, slam doesn't.


On to the meat of this post, based on the new Advanced Races Guide, the missedmedolon.

The basics:
Form: Serpentine, for the higher AC.
Feat: Antagonize.
Evolutions: Shadow Form(2); Shadow Blend(2)

This can probably only be done with a level 2 Eidolon (can't remember if there is a feat that grants more evolution points). Anyhoo, in anything but bright light, the Eidolon has total concealment, granting it 50% miss chance.
It is more or less harmless to corporeal creatures, as it only deals ½ damage.

Improvements:
Evolutions: Skilled (intimidate) (1); Improved natural armour (1); Skilled (diplomacy) (1).

The point is to get as high an AC as you can, add in the 50% miss chance, and have the enemy target your, otherwise harmless, punchbag.


Now, bright light, i.e. daylight, can be a bother, but there is hope. Just above the evolutions used herein is the drow, and the drow can use a feat to get darkness 1/day (and two feats later, deeper darkness at will). That all Eidolons have darkvision is just icing on the proverbial cake.

The point with this build, more than anything, is that it is actually really cheap, which makes it perfect for the Master Summoner archetype.
And with the stupidly low DCs for Antagonize, the skilled evolution aren't necessary before a long time (at level 6, the hardest DC is probably still below 15, and more likely to be below 10), so you can start with the extra armour.

An example:
A level 4 Eidolon (gained at level 8 for Master Summoners):
Form: Serpentine.
Evolutions: Shadow Form(2); Shadow Blend(2); 2X Improved natural armour (1)*; Skilled (intimidate) (1).
AC: 21 (10 +2 from form +2 from level +4 from evolutions +3 from dex), 25 with Mage Armour, and 29 with Shield (+2 if small size).
Skills: Intimidate 14; Diplomacy 6 (6 more skill ranks, used on, say, acrobatics, to get around the combat area).

*: You can get two of these, as it is the level of the summoner, not the Eidolon, that determines the max number.

With 14 in intimidate, you are pretty much guaranteed an automatic success on the antagonize roll (unless it is immune to mind affecting effects).
And if you are a drow with the right feats, you have deeper darkness at will, which at 10min/lvl pretty much ensures that your Eidolon will be in perpetual darkness (or at least dim light), just give your Eidolon a mundane amulet or belt and use that as your "focus" for the darkness.

One thing it needs, though, is for you to max out your linguistics skill, as your victim has to understand your Eidolon (which speaks the same languages as you do).

On another note, Shadow Form actually means it can hide in plain sight, because Shadow Form grants the Eidolon concealment regardless of terrain or light conditions.
Serpentine base + Shadow Form + Skilled (Stealth) + small means a stealth skill of 20 (1 from skill ranks +3 from class skill +8 from skilled +4 from small +4 from dex) and hide in plain sight, at level one...

Edit: This build does best when the Eidolon is anywhere do near the Summoner, so get the Unfetter spell quickly.
Edit2: Forgot the small size.
Edit3: Seems like the Antagonize DC has been sneak-errataed to something that makes more sense, which makes this build less viable. (It was HD + Wis mod, now it is 10 + HD + Wis mod)

[jaybird]

Because you alreddy have the Spell Focus, Varisian Tattoo (+1 CL on 1 non-divination school) could be useful. I can't think of any spells that benift greatly beyond the +1 to duratation, but there must be something.

Black Tentacles has a CMB equal to CL+5, so that'll help there. Also, as mentioned previously, it'll improve your range and load for DimDoor and Teleport.

[Arbane]

One minor thing that bugs me: Why is the Hooves evolution strictly worse than Claws? (secondary attack vs. primary.)

[grarrrg]

One minor thing that bugs me: Why is the Hooves evolution strictly worse than Claws? (secondary attack vs. primary.)

Cause Legs are OP

But seriously. It bugs me too.
Legs add +10ft. movement speed, and you can ONLY EVER put 1 set of Claws, and 1 set of Hooves on them.
Arms 'technically' don't do anything on their own, but you can add as many Claws/Pincers/Slams as your Max Attacks will allow, and/or use as many Weapons as you darn well please.
So yeah... Legs got hosed PUN!

[OgreSage]

Evolutions: Shadow Form(2); Shadow Blend(2); 2X Improved natural armour (1)*; Skilled (intimidate) (1).
AC: 21 (10 +2 from form +2 from level +4 from evolutions +3 from dex), 25 with Mage Armour, and 29 with Shield (+2 if small size).
Skills: Intimidate 14; Diplomacy 6 (6 more skill ranks, used on, say, acrobatics, to get around the combat area).

*: You can get two of these, as it is the level of the summoner, not the Eidolon, that determines the max number.

Unfortunately the entry for the Master Summoner's 'Lesser Eidolon' states:

A master summoner’s class level is halved (minimum 1) for the purposes of determining his eidolon’s abilities, Hit Dice, evolution pool, and so on. The eidolon otherwise functions as normal.

So for the purpose of determining if the eidolon can take INA again the Summoner is considered level 4 and they would have to wait until the summoner is level 10 so they are considered level 5 for this determination.

This is because errata clarifies the eligibility clause of the INA evolution to say:

The description of the evolution says, "This evolution can be taken once for every five levels the summoner possesses." Unfortunately, that text is unclear. A summoner can select this evolution once for levels 1—4, again for levels 5–9, a third time at levels 10–14, a fourth time at levels 15–19, and a fifth time at level 20. This wording will be clarified in the next update document and print run for the APG.