[3.P] The Summoner's Handbook: A Guide to the Pathfinder Summoner

[Negher]

Unclear question, sorry.
The situation is this:
Now at level 6 my eidolon have 4 arms for 2 slams attacks. I've reach evo and one of this attacks has 10 ft reach. I can imagine that my big fella has 2 arms that are longer than the others and made with them the attack with reach.
At level 9 with multiattack I take a third attack at -5 because I've onle two natual weapons . I suppose to consider this attack made with one of the natural weapons of the two regular attacks (a sort of iterative attack like a crafted weapon).
May I consider this attack made with the long arms so with reach?
I hope that my question is more clear now.

EDIT: gave a better read to multiattack decription on the handbook. It's written that you take a second attack with on of your natural weapon so I think i can choose the attack with reach and have slam (10ft)/slam(5ft)/slam at -5(10ft).

[grarrrg]

Now at level 6 my eidolon have 4 arms for 2 slams attacks. I've reach evo and one of this attacks has 10 ft reach. I can imagine that my big fella has 2 arms that are longer than the others and made with them the attack with reach.
At level 9 with multiattack I take a third attack at -5 because I've onle two natual weapons . I suppose to consider this attack made with one of the natural weapons of the two regular attacks (a sort of iterative attack like a crafted weapon).
May I consider this attack made with the long arms so with reach?
I hope that my question is more clear now.

EDIT: gave a better read to multiattack decription on the handbook. It's written that you take a second attack with on of your natural weapon so I think i can choose the attack with reach and have slam (10ft)/slam(5ft)/slam at -5(10ft).

You are correct, just make sure that you "chose to replace the Claws of your base form" with the Slam, otherwise you'd technically have 3+ attacks even if you didn't use them.

[Andvare]

There's a new summoning boosting feat in Champions of Purity, called Summon Good Monster.
And it is actually quite good.
First of all, all your good aligned summons gets the Diehard feat, which is not nearly as much fun as the movie, but does gives your creatures a little more staying power. Good aligned summons is any with the celestial template, plus quite a few more than that.
But the real meat of this sandwich is the monsters you get added to your summon list.
Now, I won't go through them all, at least not at this time, but the list does greatly expand your versatility. An example is the SMII Faun. It can cast Hideous Laughter, which is itself a more-than-decent 2nd level wizard spell, and with a decent DC as well (DC 16 with panpipes). It is also a medium sized tool user, that understands common, which is good news for those that won't invest in the elemental languages at this level.
The list is just awesome, and your SM-to-spell list just expands rapidly, especially with a lot of druid and cleric spells.

This is definitely a feat in cyan territory.
I would take this one as my first feat for any good aligned Master Summoner, and get it quickly, preferably before or at level 3, for any other Summoner. The versatility it brings, is good enough to get, even if your are very focused on your Eidolon. You could even become the healer of the group, because you now have access to Heal, Lesser Restoration, Remove Curse, Remove Disease and Remove Poison. Perhaps not that effective, but you can.

[stack]

Wow, that feat rocks.

Of course the diehard is disfunctional.

"A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower,"

The feat gives no exception to this, so the summons still technically go poof when they hit 0 HP, diehard or no. I don't expect ANYONE to not houserule this though.

[Negher]

For the possibility of keeping summoned creature below 0 HP I've considered the idea of taking two feats: Racial Heritage (half-orc) that gave me the possibility to have Ferocious Summons (feat from advanced race for half-orcs) that gave the universal Ferocity monster ability to all creature I summon (Eidolon too).
Usually we consider feat prior to general description, in this case the feat give ferocity to all my summons so they still fight below 0 HP.
(Otherwise dire boar is a useless pet!!)
But if you find a DM who hates you...

[JeenLeen]

A couple question on Synthesist.

1) Does your movement become that of the eidolon, or stay your own? Relatedly, would a Strix synthesist lose flight? (Idea of a merfolk, but I want to lose that 5 foot movement. Or just a gnome/halfling going up to 30 would be nice.) On a related note, I get that you get darkvision from the eidolon, but do you keep your own special visions?

2) With HP, I read the discussion a few pages back about losing HP if you have good Con, etc.
Could someone walk me through the math that would happen with the following:
1. Synthesist has 16 Con base at level 1. So 11 HP (8 from level 1 + 3 from Con)
2. Performs the ritual to summon the eidolon (assume it has 13 Con), gaining its HP (is it 5+1 (half HD) or 10+1 (full HD) for level 1?).
I would have thought my HP was 11 with the eidolon's as bonus HP, but it sounds like it's actually now 9 with the eidolon's added on.
3. Eidolon summoned. How many HP do I have?

3) If you go to sleep naturally, your eidolon unsummons, correct? Thoughts on a one-level dip into Sorcerer to get Keep Watch as a sorc spell?

4) Can a small syntheist have a medium eidolon (and thus count as medium when summoned)?

5) Could Disguise Self, or items based upon it, hide your eidolon so you look normal in towns?

[Renen]

Cant answe em all but:

1) im pretty sure you get the best of everything. Whoever has more speed, u use that. If you have wings, they just extend past the eidolon and continue to work, etc.

2. I always though your and eidolon hp is separate. But dont quote me on it.

3. Kinda like 2. When you summon eidolon, you keep ur hp, but have eidolons hp added on top, kinda like temp hp. With eidolon taking damage before you do.

4. Yeh sleeping unsummons.

5. You can have eidolon larger than u, and u conut as it's size. But you cant have it smaller.

[grarrrg]

1) Does your movement become that of the eidolon, or stay your own? Relatedly, would a Strix synthesist lose flight? (Idea of a merfolk, but I want to lose that 5 foot movement. Or just a gnome/halfling going up to 30 would be nice.) On a related note, I get that you get darkvision from the eidolon, but do you keep your own special visions?

Synthesists are...Special. These are my best guesses, based on the current rules.
For the most part your "physical" body ceases to exist, but your Mental state remains.

Movement speed would default to that of the Eidolon. If you want to Fly, you need a Spell, or the Flight Evolution.
Special vision is a little more debatable, but however it's ruled, you'd only get to use one of them at best, no "special stacking".
Example: Eidolons start with Darkvision 60ft. If you have Darkvision 30ft. these would NOT stack to Darkvision 90ft.

2) With HP, I read the discussion a few pages back about losing HP if you have good Con, etc.
...
1. Synthesist has 16 Con base at level 1. So 11 HP (8 from level 1 + 3 from Con)

The Eidolon's CON score replaces yours, so if you're going from 16 CON to 13 CON at level 1, then you would "lose" 2 HP when you 'suit-up'. And the Eidolon's HP would stack on top as Temp HP.
When your Suit goes away, your HP would jump back up 2 points.

3) If you go to sleep naturally, your eidolon unsummons, correct? Thoughts on a one-level dip into Sorcerer to get Keep Watch as a sorc spell?

That should work, as you are "awake". So long as you don't "do anything strenuous" your suit should stay up.
I don't know that I'd dip Sorcerer, maybe get a Wand and UMD it or something though.

4) Can a small syntheist have a medium eidolon (and thus count as medium when summoned)?

Yes. So long as your Eidolon is equal to, or larger than you are.

5) Could Disguise Self, or items based upon it, hide your eidolon so you look normal in towns?

"The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned. While this rune can be hidden through mundane means, it cannot be concealed through magic that changes appearance, such as alter self or polymorph (although invisibility does conceal it as long as the spell lasts)."

The Eidolon could look normal (within limits...8 Arms and Huge can be hard to cover up you know), but you'd still have the 'glowing rune' to worry about.

[Barstro]

5) Could Disguise Self, or items based upon it, hide your eidolon so you look normal in towns?

FWIW, I second what grarrrg said. Also, I think that RAW allows you to use Alter Self to totally change (no need to worry about extra arms, but you still have the mark) and even go from Huge to Medium and GAIN +2 STR.

I hope that's wrong, but I'm pretty sure it works.

[Havoq]

Meant to out-right kill one person at a time while not being a glass cannon. (Biped half-elf build)

Level 1:
Evos:
Bite, Energy
Feats:
IUS
Level 5:
Evos:
Bite, Slam, Energy, Trip, 3 left for setting appropriate
Feats:
IUS, Improved Grapple (qualify for this by taking advantage of ability score increase, and later put a point into dex at level 5)
Stat boost: Dex
Level 10:
You should get your Eidolon a +2 dex belt before making it large
Evos:
Large, Swallow Whole, Bite, Grab (bite), Improved Damage (bite), Reach (bite), 4 left for preference / aspect
Feats:
IUS, Improved Grapple, INA (bite), Greater Grapple (I like this over lunge here to make eating quick and easy)
Stat boost: Con
I hope that's wrong, but I'm pretty sure it works.

The guilde offers some sample builds.
What's with the baed on a Half Elf comment? Do you actually have to figure in for being a half-elf somehow? And - there doesn't appear to be enough points for all of the things in the build. Did the Summoner rules change since the guides were written?

[grarrrg]

The guilde offers some sample builds.
What's with the baed on a Half Elf comment? Do you actually have to figure in for being a half-elf somehow? And - there doesn't appear to be enough points for all of the things in the build. Did the Summoner rules change since the guides were written?

Your questions answer each other.
Half-Elves have an Alternate Favored Class Bonus of +1/4 Evo point.

So yes, Half-Elf _IS_ important when it comes to Summoner builds.

[Havoq]

That's much clearer. Half-Elf is the Summoner, not the Eidolon.
It was after all called a (Biped half-elf build). =)

[upho]

The guilde offers some sample builds.
What's with the baed on a Half Elf comment? Do you actually have to figure in for being a half-elf somehow? And - there doesn't appear to be enough points for all of the things in the build. Did the Summoner rules change since the guides were written?

Note that this build is based on outdated rules (or weird/incorrect interpretations of RAW). You should be aware of the following:

1. You don't need to be a half-elf summoner to have as many EPs as the build needs, you can do it with any race and simply take the Extra Evolution feat when/if needed. With this build, you'll soon have more than enough EPs to fool around with though.

2. IUS is NOT required for Improved Grapple if the eidolon has the Grab ability, see for example the Blood Wight. (The feat won't grant any benefits to grapple attempts made with limbs without the Grab evolution though, if you for some weird reason would like to use one of this build's hands instead of its bite to grapple.) I would suggest swapping IUS for Combat Reflexes for better BC (great when the eidolon becomes larger and has reach with its grabbing bite attack, but needs increased Dex), or perhaps Equipment Trick (rope) to be able to make the Hogtie trick later on (devastating in combination with Swallow Whole and the grapple feat chain).

3. This build can make great use of the Rapid Grappler feat and should get it as early as possible (lvl 11).

4. Swallowing an opponent doesn't mean it's killed outright. Instead, a swallowed creature only needs to deal damage equal to 10% of the eidolon's HP using a light piercing or slashing weapon to cut its way out, easily done since the eidolon has a stomach with ridiculously low AC. So even a creature with rather lousy melee skills can often succeed before it dies, it only needs to have a knife or similar in its inventory. RAI, I'd say slashing or piercing natural attacks also suffice and I guess most DMs would rule accordingly. If an opponent cuts its way out, it also means the eidolon can't use the Swallow Whole ability until the damage is healed. In order to make Swallow Whole as devastating as implied in the build description, the swallowed creature would also need to be tied up and thus have the pinned instead of the grappled condition when swallowed.

5. Many creatures can be very dangerous when grappled. So if the eidolon can't grapple, tie and swallow them in one turn (not possible before lvl 11 or if the eidolon has to move), it must be prepared to face not only attempts to break or reverse the grapple (which is much harder than succeeding on grapple checks), but also potentially devastating attacks. This means the eidolon needs to boost especially Dex/CMD and AC as high as possible. Be sure to grab the Improved Natural Armor evolution as many times as allowed, and prioritize items which improve the eidolon's Dex and CMD (belt, Ring of Protection etc).

I believe having your eidolon focusing on grapple can be both effective and fun to play, but I think it does usually require a bit more work than the "Nom Beast" description and build advice suggests. Also note that many aspects of the grapple rules are murky and/or produce weird results, besides being complex. I'd suggest you read up on them, as well as the relevant info in the FAQ, and make sure you know everything very well and discuss any questions with your DM before your eidolon gets the grab evolution, otherwise you'll likely be hogging even more time in combat than the "2 PCs" nature of the summoner already makes you do. Hope this makes it easier for you to build and play your eidolon, and good luck!

[Barstro]

Wow, that feat rocks.

Of course the diehard is disfunctional.

"A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower,"

The feat gives no exception to this, so the summons still technically go poof when they hit 0 HP, diehard or no. I don't expect ANYONE to not houserule this though.

Your analysis is correct. But, if that were the result, then the Diehard feat actually does nothing. Since it is in the description, is must do something.

I think that eventually (after they do all the rest of the errata that Summoner/Sythesist needs) summoned creatures will say "A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower (AND falls unconscious).

[Cieyrin]

1. You don't need to be a half-elf summoner to have as many EPs as the build needs, you can do it with any race and simply take the Extra Evolution feat when/if needed. With this build, you'll soon have more than enough EPs to fool around with though.

While you can, Half-elves can use their feat slots for other things, including Extra Evolution. They can also be a Wild Caller Summoner for even more, as the Nom Beast's evolutions aren't on the Wild Caller's restricted list.

2. IUS is NOT required for Improved Grapple if the eidolon has the Grab ability, see for example the Blood Wight.

A 3rd Party book doing it doesn't mean they did it by RAW. For a monster statblock, it could be a bonus feat for all you know.

[Negher]

A question about summon monster (SLA and spell, is the same), I’ve read some discussions in other threads but I’d like to talk in the specific thread of the Summoner.
The general description of the summoning subschool in the Conjuration School tells that when you summon a creature and that creature dies you cannot summon it for the next 24 hours.
So If I use my SLA to summon a dire lion and the poor cat die I can’t summon dire lions until next day? I’ve to summon another creature?
The rules seems to be clear but I really don’t understand the reason of this interpretation.
You don’t summon a specific creature, so why you can’t summon another dire lion?
I’ve never use this rules (until now !) but this is an unpleasant restriction to the summon monster SLA.

[JeenLeen]

For Synthesist: do elves (or any other Pathfinder race) not sleep? I know D&D 3.5 elves don't sleep, but I don't see a similar note about elves online.

A question about summon monster (SLA and spell, is the same), I’ve read some discussions in other threads but I’d like to talk in the specific thread of the Summoner.
The general description of the summoning subschool in the Conjuration School tells that when you summon a creature and that creature dies you cannot summon it for the next 24 hours.
So If I use my SLA to summon a dire lion and the poor cat die I can’t summon dire lions until next day? I’ve to summon another creature?
The rules seems to be clear but I really don’t understand the reason of this interpretation.
You don’t summon a specific creature, so why you can’t summon another dire lion?
I’ve never use this rules (until now !) but this is an unpleasant restriction to the summon monster SLA.

Reading the spell off the PRD, I would think you can just summon a different lion. That's how I've always heard it work in D&D, too. But maybe the actual book has more detail.

[Barstro]

For Synthesist: do elves (or any other Pathfinder race) not sleep? I know D&D 3.5 elves don't sleep, but I don't see a similar note about elves online.

No such rule for elves in PF. They are immune to magic sleep effects, but still need their 8 hours of downtime.

[upho]

A 3rd Party book doing it doesn't mean they did it by RAW. For a monster statblock, it could be a bonus feat for all you know.

If IUS actually was required, so would Feral Combat Training and Weapon Focus be. Otherwise IG wouldn't apply to any of the eidolon's natural attacks, regardless of whether any of them have the Grab special ability or not.

I can't find an example of a creature with Grab which has IUS, WF, FCT and IG in the SRD (though I'm certain many creatures could find this natural mix delicious if served with monk levels... ) Less surprising, neither can I find a creature with Grab which has IG and IUS like the "Nom Beast". But I did find two additional creatures with Grab which have IG but not IUS (the Siyokoy and the Rorkoun - neither being 3rd party, neither listing IG (or GG) as a bonus feat (those are typically marked with "B"), and both including the IG bonus in their CMB to grapple).

So why must the eidolon have three feats in order to qualify for IG, when all other creatures with the Grab ability apparently don't need any feat at all? I guess one could claim that IUS, WF and FCT is actually what the RAW says is required, and disregard comparable creatures designed by Paizo and 3rd party publishers as not applicable to eidolons or errors. But since following RAW would mean the grapple feat chain goes FUBAR for eidolons, and especially since not even the Paizo devs follow those rules, I believe such a claim, regardless of actual validity, wouldn't have much impact on anything outside a purely theoretical discussion and perhaps errata/clarification requests.

[Cieyrin]

If IUS actually was required, so would Feral Combat Training and Weapon Focus be. Otherwise IG wouldn't apply to any of the eidolon's natural attacks, regardless of whether any of them have the Grab special ability or not.

That's a slippery slope if I ever saw one. Creatures don't need Improved Grapple to grapple, it enhances the ability to grapple. Feral Combat Training is one of many not well thought out feats in Ultimate Combat, like Prone Shooter, that's been in need of errata since the book's release. I doubt the feat was meant for enabling grappling, whereas it was a monstrous Monk enhancer so they could make use of Stunning Fist and various styles.

I can't find an example of a creature with Grab which has IUS, WF, FCT and IG in the SRD (though I'm certain many creatures could find this natural mix delicious if served with monk levels... ) Less surprising, neither can I find a creature with Grab which has IG and IUS like the "Nom Beast". But I did find two additional creatures with Grab which have IG but not IUS (the Siyokoy and the Rorkoun - neither being 3rd party, neither listing IG (or GG) as a bonus feat (those are typically marked with "B"), and both including the IG bonus in their CMB to grapple).

So why must the eidolon have three feats in order to qualify for IG, when all other creatures with the Grab ability apparently don't need any feat at all? I guess one could claim that IUS, WF and FCT is actually what the RAW says is required, and disregard comparable creatures designed by Paizo and 3rd party publishers as not applicable to eidolons or errors. But since following RAW would mean the grapple feat chain goes FUBAR for eidolons, and especially since not even the Paizo devs follow those rules, I believe such a claim, regardless of actual validity, wouldn't have much impact on anything outside a purely theoretical discussion and perhaps errata/clarification requests.

Paizo isn't exactly known for their editing or following their own rules, especially given the amount of digging required to find examples of the designers disregarding said rules. Statblocks showing specific activity happening does not suddenly make it a general rule, especially as neither the Grab universal monster ability or Grab evolution makes any indication that you are exempt from Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, neither does Improved Grapple make any such exception. So, by RAW, natural weapon grapplers are required to take a feat that doesn't benefit them in the slightest.

Now, if I were actually playing in a non-Organized Play environment, then yes, I'd agree that requiring IUS for Improved Grapple or Ability Focus(Constrict) for the Final Embrace chain is stupid and unwarranted. So a note would be appropriate that discussing with your DM the prerequisite's validity may be warranted but presenting the build by the crumbling RAW means less discussion required just to play. Hell, if it were me, I'd make Grab equivalent to Improved Grapple for meeting prereqs but I can't say that's right for every table, either.

[upho]

That's a slippery slope if I ever saw one. Creatures don't need Improved Grapple to grapple, it enhances the ability to grapple. Feral Combat Training is one of many not well thought out feats in Ultimate Combat, like Prone Shooter, that's been in need of errata since the book's release. I doubt the feat was meant for enabling grappling, whereas it was a monstrous Monk enhancer so they could make use of Stunning Fist and various styles.

Slippery slope or not, if a creature with Grab needs IUS in order to qualify for IG, it sure needs WF and FCT to apply the IG bonus to grapple attempts made with its Grab natural attack. As written, that is the explicit benefit of FCT and, in the case of natural attacks with the Grab ability, that benefit is just as relevant as IUS being a prerequisite for IG. And of course a creature don't need IG (or Grab) in order to grapple - anyone and anything can grapple AFAIK (except incorporeal?), non-humanoids don't even take the -4 penalty for not having two hands free. But again, this isn't a question of enabling grappling, it's a question of whether a creature qualifies for IG and whether it can apply the IG bonus to Grab specifically.

I agree 100% about FCT not being well made and your interpretation of the RAI, being something like "The chosen natural attack receives any benefits otherwise limited to your unarmed strike". Which is quite different from the current RAW which also says "This feat is required in order to receive the benefits of any feat which has IUS as a prerequisite when making a natural attack".

Regardless, I'm even more convinced the RAI of IG being "Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike or Grab special attack". It's perfectly consistent with both the grapple rules' annoyingly myopic focus on hands and manufactured weapons, as well as all comparable creatures published so far.

Paizo isn't exactly known for their editing or following their own rules, especially given the amount of digging required to find examples of the designers disregarding said rules. Statblocks showing specific activity happening does not suddenly make it a general rule, especially as neither the Grab universal monster ability or Grab evolution makes any indication that you are exempt from Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, neither does Improved Grapple make any such exception. So, by RAW, natural weapon grapplers are required to take a feat that doesn't benefit them in the slightest.

Well, while I do agree with the geist of what you're saying here, we also need to apply this skepticism when considering the other possibility:

1. While there seem to be few examples of the designers disregarding the IUS prerequisite, there isn't even one example of them not disregarding it. So far, the relation is 3/0, and I suspect we would find this to be something like 5/0 if we took the time to do a thorough search and include creatures designed by 3rd party publishers.

2. When applicable, the rules focuses on detailing what the designers believe to be the most common situations for their idea of a typical PC (i.e. a humanoid with two hands and no natural weapons - several examples are found in the grapple rules). This focus seems to get more pronounced in rules dealing with options the designers believe will be considered by the typical PC, rather than other creatures such as monsters. I believe several of the options depending on IUS are fitting examples of this, and the main cause of the poorly designed FCT patch. IOW, that the designers "forgot" to mention the exception in the Grab and, especially, the IG rules is in perfect keeping with their focus on the typical PC - they didn't think/care about that a creature with the Grab ability (which couldn't be a PC at the time) might also consider the grapple feats, a chain created for the typical PC.

3. As discussed above, according to RAW, having IUS is enough to qualify for IG, but not for applying the benefit of IG to a natural attack.

Now, if I were actually playing in a non-Organized Play environment, then yes, I'd agree that requiring IUS for Improved Grapple or Ability Focus(Constrict) for the Final Embrace chain is stupid and unwarranted. So a note would be appropriate that discussing with your DM the prerequisite's validity may be warranted but presenting the build by the crumbling RAW means less discussion required just to play. Hell, if it were me, I'd make Grab equivalent to Improved Grapple for meeting prereqs but I can't say that's right for every table, either.

I definitely agree, including about Grab counting as IG for meeting prerequisites. And I wonder how PFS DMs would rule this, if given the all the relevant info.

[Grasharm]

Okay, I have an opportunity right now to do something with my current summoner. Skipping the story reasons that came up in game I have the opportunity to sell off some or all of my magic items and repurchase a new list from the book.... mostly. DM will roll for availability of items using site specific rules because we are at a magic item foundry/workshop

I'm stuck because it's taken me 10 levels to get here but I'm fairly happy with my current setup. I don't have a single item that is super powerful, well one maybe two. Instead I tend to have something that is a minor help for any occasion.

Here is my equipment list and it's book value.

Spoiler

Show

Hat of disguise 1800
Headband of Alluring Chr 2000
Eyes of Keen Sight 6000
Cloak of Resistance 1000
Amulet of Nat Armor +1 2000
Vest of Surgery 3000
Robe of useful items 7000
Mithral Breastplate +1 5350
Belt of physical Perfection +2 16000
Bracers of Steadiness 2000
Gloves of assisting 180
Ring of Sustance 2500
Ring of Protection +1 2000
Boots of the Winterland 2500

Handy Haversac 2000
Bag of Holding Type II 5000
Qual feather token, tree x3 1200
Deck of Illusion 8000
Lesser rod of metamagic ex 3000
Elix of Love X2 300

Mostly I want other people to look at it and see if there is something summoner specific, or even general, that they think I could do to improve This.

[Negher]

Here’s my ideas for your equipment, (I use the item slot division ‘cause the share slot problem with your eidolon), I take consideration only Wondrous items because I have that creation feat so I made an overhaul of this kind if magic items
BELT: this is the slot of typical physical bonus for your eidolon, so you can choose the belt according to your money

BODY: I suggest a bodywrap of mighty strikes (+2) for your eidolon, +1 magical bonus and a +1 weapon special ability (ghost touch, flaming, ecc..depending on your desire). When you’re rich enough an OTHERWORLDLY KIMONO or a ROBE OF THE ARCHMAGI are the best choice.

CHEST: for your eidolon a SHIRT OF IMMOLATION may be nice, a SPECTRAL SHROUD is good for both you and your eidolon (expansive). Other good is the SNAKESKIN TUNIC

EYES: If you need low light vision or darkvision I suggest EYES OF THE OWL (better than keensight eyes) or GOGGLES OF NIGHT. DARKLANDS GOGGLES are good but expansive.

FEET: SLIPPERS OF SPIDER CLIMBING and BOOTS OF LEVITATION are useful to escape in some case and are not so expansive. TREMOR BOOTS may be used by your eidolon (to save Evo points). BOOTS OF SPEED and WINGED BOOTS for me are not so good ‘cause you can cast Haste and overland flight as a spell.

HANDS: DELIQUESCENT GLOVES for your eidolon are, for me, the best. You give 1D6 of acid damage and you save 2 evo point.

HEAD: the HAT OF DISGUISE is a good idea, both for you and your eidolon, other items are, for me, less useful.

HEADBAND: HEADBAND OF ALLURING CHARISMA, nothing else.

NECK: AMULET OF MIGHTY FISTS is a natural choice, but is expensive for bonuses higher than +2. An AMULET OF NATURAL ARMOR may be a good item if your eidolon have magick attack evo/bodywrap of mighty strikes.

SHOULDERS: CLOAK OF RESISTANCE is a good item for both you and the eidolon. If you have a lot of money JUGGERNAUT’S PAULDRONS is a great item for your eidolon

WRISTS: BRACERS OF ARMOR for the eidolon is the best (for me)

SLOTLESS: A lot of good things, HANDY HAVERSACK and BAG OF HOLDING, but, for me, the best slotless item (considering the price) is the SNAPLEAF. Every PC must have one, nobody study feather fall and when you need it…you cry. But this is a great item that you can use when you need feather fall or invisibility and you don’t have them (I used one to become invisible after failed a ST versus a stinking cloud, I was enable to cast spell so I use my snapleaf, move and wait until the nauseated condition finish)

NOTE: ULTIMATE EQUIPMENT handbook is your holy bible of pathfinder items

bye

[Tychris1]

Hey, i'm trying to build an Eidolon to best represent a Balor in my E10 campaign and I want to know what you all would recommend me spend my points/feats on. So far i've been building him as a Scrapper, giving him a Greatsword and a whip, given him MWP, and his evolutions have been (Ability Increase Strength, Reach Greatsword, and Improved Natural Armor). My characters a Half Elf aswell for the bonus Evo points (Since it's E10 I want as many points as I can work with). Any suggestions?

[Andvare]

Okay, I have an opportunity right now to do something with my current summoner. Skipping the story reasons that came up in game I have the opportunity to sell off some or all of my magic items and repurchase a new list from the book.... mostly. DM will roll for availability of items using site specific rules because we are at a magic item foundry/workshop

I'm stuck because it's taken me 10 levels to get here but I'm fairly happy with my current setup. I don't have a single item that is super powerful, well one maybe two. Instead I tend to have something that is a minor help for any occasion.

Here is my equipment list and it's book value.

Spoiler

Show

Hat of disguise 1800
Headband of Alluring Chr 2000
Eyes of Keen Sight 6000
Cloak of Resistance 1000
Amulet of Nat Armor +1 2000
Vest of Surgery 3000
Robe of useful items 7000
Mithral Breastplate +1 5350
Belt of physical Perfection +2 16000
Bracers of Steadiness 2000
Gloves of assisting 180
Ring of Sustance 2500
Ring of Protection +1 2000
Boots of the Winterland 2500

Handy Haversac 2000
Bag of Holding Type II 5000
Qual feather token, tree x3 1200
Deck of Illusion 8000
Lesser rod of metamagic ex 3000
Elix of Love X2 300

Mostly I want other people to look at it and see if there is something summoner specific, or even general, that they think I could do to improve This.

I made a list of cheap, and very good items over at the Paizo forum. Dunno, why I posted it there, I should have done in here. You guys are nicer, more intelligent, and better looking than those over there are

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pz2e?Ma...ms-on-a-budget

A couple of that list:

"One of my all-time favourite cheap magical items, is the Quick Runner's Shirt
These are so cheap, you can easily afford several "I feel so sweaty after a good workout, I have to change my shirt".
It's the poor man's pounce, or the "I have to summon something, and move out of the way", or many other situations in combat were you just need that extra move action. And at a bargain price of 1000gp, you can easily afford one at level 3, and have one for each encounter later on."
That one is far too cheap for what it does. Don't just get one, get five.

"For the spontaneous casters out there, there is the Mnemonis Vestment, not quite as cheap, and bordering on a medium magical item, but very useful. Those utility spells that you'd really want, but can't prioritize to put on your spell list? Get a scroll of each of those, and this robe, it should pay itself back rather quickly. Of course, a written source could also be a spellbook, so if your friendly wizard will borrow you his... Also a candidate for a multiple purchase at later levels."
This is extremely useful for a class with that many good spells, and so few known spells.

But, frankly, the whole list is useful, and cheap too. I'm thinking of making a guide out of it, going through all of the interesting mundane and magical items, and noticing the traps here and there, it just seemed like there was little interest.

[Arbane]

I made a list of cheap, and very good items over at the Paizo forum. Dunno, why I posted it there, I should have done in here. You guys are nicer, more intelligent, and better looking than those over there are

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pz2e?Ma...ms-on-a-budget

(SNIP)
But, frankly, the whole list is useful, and cheap too. I'm thinking of making a guide out of it, going through all of the interesting mundane and magical items, and noticing the traps here and there, it just seemed like there was little interest.

Dooooo iiiiiit.

[Grasharm]

Thanks for the input guys. The cloak of the hedge mage looks to be about the only think I'm going to change out for right now if I can find the extra 1.5k. Probably ditch the bag o holding for the moola no matter how much loosing the carrying space hurts. I'll just have to be a little more selective in what I carry with me and make the other group members carry their own load.

[Andvare]

SLOTLESS: A lot of good things, HANDY HAVERSACK and BAG OF HOLDING, but, for me, the best slotless item (considering the price) is the SNAPLEAF. Every PC must have one, nobody study feather fall and when you need it…you cry. But this is a great item that you can use when you need feather fall or invisibility and you don’t have them (I used one to become invisible after failed a ST versus a stinking cloud, I was enable to cast spell so I use my snapleaf, move and wait until the nauseated condition finish)

NOTE: ULTIMATE EQUIPMENT handbook is your holy bible of pathfinder items

bye

Snapleaf is somewhat funny, as it doesn't say it is a one-off item, yet is only 750gp compared to Ring of Invisibility with a price tag of 20k gp. You'd have to be a completely bonkers GM to let it be a unlimited use item.

[Negher]

Snapleaf is somewhat funny, as it doesn't say it is a one-off item, yet is only 750gp compared to Ring of Invisibility with a price tag of 20k gp. You'd have to be a completely bonkers GM to let it be a unlimited use item.

Hey! I've never notice that is not explicitly written that is a single use item. But, as you said, it's obvious, looking at the price and the effects, that is not a permanent item.

[Karoht]

Hey! I've never notice that is not explicitly written that is a single use item. But, as you said, it's obvious, looking at the price and the effects, that is not a permanent item.

It doesn't tell you how it is activated.
However, it is shaped like a leaf.
And it is called Snapleaf.
One imagines that it is activated by snapping it.