General Exalted Discussion III: Weddings Are An Act of Villainy

[TheCountAlucard]

I'm almost positive there's a statement to the opposite effect elsewhere, but I could be wrong.

Ahh, I see, they changed it again in Glories: Luna, but still no word in Scroll of Errata.

In other words, three different books saying entirely different things altogether, with no official errata to say which one is correct.

[Xefas]

No, because the Games of Divinity are an Essence 10 effect at the very least.

They also have some sort of crazy Zeal-like perfect trumping effect, because they were able to addict Sol despite his perfection abilities.

But he would still be addicted. You aren't trumping the Game's effects. The Game's effects are still in full swing. What you're doing is forcing the Unconquered Sun to act a certain way. Which he could trivially stop you from doing. Unless he wants to be forced to do something else because he realizes that that's the only way he'll be able to get things done.

I'd really like to see the Essence 3 Malefactor get to the UCS to actually hit him with it.

But also, it only lasts for a short period of time. Likely, the UCS would go back to the games the moment he can.

Well, that's the epic scenario you play through. With the Malefactor in a dufflebag and four Solars making a crazy terrorist dash into the Jade Pleasure Dome to throw it at His Holiness.

And the effect only goes away if you pay Willpower. If the Unconquered Sun doesn't want the effect to break, he can just not pay the Willpower cost. Riiiight?

[Tavar]

Yes, but when 90% of your players end up with a 4 dot Solar manse specifically to get the Seven Leaping Dragons hearthstone, it sure doesn't look like it. :P

Exactly this.

[Mr.Bookworm]

But he would still be addicted. You aren't trumping the Game's effects. The Game's effects are still in full swing. What you're doing is forcing the Unconquered Sun to act a certain way. Which he could trivially stop you from doing. Unless he wants to be forced to do something else because he realizes that that's the only way he'll be able to get things done.

But by forcing him to act a certain way, you're trumping the Games' effects/Charms. By forcing him to act in line with his nature, you are conflicting with the Games' hold on him. Wouldn't that provoke a roll-off, at least?

And you could argue that nowadays, his nature is to play the Games.

I mean, if it were that easy to break the Game's addiction, even temporarily, they would have done it by now.

Well, that's the epic scenario you play through. With the Malefactor in a dufflebag and four Solars making a crazy terrorist dash into the Jade Pleasure Dome to throw it at His Holiness.

I gotta admit, that would be an awesome campaign.

Exactly this.

Give Manses the Chicanery-No keyword.

Done.

[Tavar]

I mean, if it were that easy to break the Game's addiction, even temporarily, they would have done it by now.

By who? Remember, so far, no one's ever gotten into the Jade Pleasure Dome uninvited, so no one's had the chance to do their mojo on the Unconquered Sun.

Give Manses the Chicanery-No keyword.

Done.

Huh?

[SurlySeraph]

It's a keyword The Demented One came up with. "Chicanery-No: If a player uses this Charm in an abusive or exploitative manner, the ST may punch him right in the goddamn face."

[Mr.Bookworm]

By who? Remember, so far, no one's ever gotten into the Jade Pleasure Dome uninvited, so no one's had the chance to do their mojo on the Unconquered Sun.

True. Hm.

Still don't think it would work, but you might as well try it.

If you succeed, you saved Creation, if you fail, you go out like a rockstar.

Huh?

New Keyword: Chicanery-No. If a player uses a Charm with this keyword in an abusive or exploitative manner, the Storyteller may punch them right in the goddamn mouth.

[Xefas]

But by forcing him to act a certain way, you're trumping the Games' effects/Charms. By forcing him to act in line with his nature, you are conflicting with the Games' hold on him. Wouldn't that provoke a roll-off, at least?

Urrrg, yeah, that's true. As much as it hurts to admit it. And 10 dice vs 3 isn't great odds.

I mean, if it were that easy to break the Game's addiction, even temporarily, they would have done it by now.

I gotta admit, that would be an awesome campaign.

Well, I'm not aware of any other effects that force a God to perform their Primordial-ordained duty to the exclusion of everything else. I guess if you were doing it as the main focal point of a campaign, you could say it works by virtue of it being Primordial vs Primordial essence, which through applied fridge logic has some extra kind of pull. That, tacked onto the idea that the Unconquered Sun is pushing against the Perfect Zeal effect of the Games with the full weight of his infinite power (which is insufficient), that the little extra Primordial juju helps him break it that last bit, whereas anyone else's authority asserted through charms just doesn't have the same kind of weight that the architects of the Games themselves have.

But that's DM fiat. Without a little Deus Ex Machina juice, it's a 10v3 die roll off.

EDIT: I also just like the idea of shoving an Infernal in a bag and using him like a bomb.

[Kris Strife]

Yes, but when 90% of your players end up with a 4 dot Solar manse specifically to get the Seven Leaping Dragons hearthstone, it sure doesn't look like it. :P

What does that one do again?

[TheCountAlucard]

What does that one do again?

+4 dice on Martial Arts attacks.

Surprising, considering a one-dot-lower hearthstone grants complete immunity to an entire aspect of combat, plus other benefits. Which one am I talking about? The Freedom Stone. "I has it, so grappling is no."

@V: Oh, my gosh, you're right! "Spending seven bonus points on the ability to make light is so awesome! It's not like I can spend a mote and... oh, wait, yeah."

[Tavar]

Don't forget the 5 dot solar one. You know, the one that make light.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Urrrg, yeah, that's true. As much as it hurts to admit it. And 10 dice vs 3 isn't great odds.

*WINS THE INTERNET*

Though if you can convince TUS to sit still and let you do your mojo, you could just keep using the Charm on him till you beat the roll-off.

I guess it depends on whether the addiction just compels Sol to play the Games, or if it addicts him like a drug, and he'll smite your ass if you get between him and his hit.

Well, I'm not aware of any other effects that force a God to perform their Primordial-ordained duty to the exclusion of everything else. I guess if you were doing it as the main focal point of a campaign, you could say it works by virtue of it being Primordial vs Primordial essence, which through applied fridge logic has some extra kind of pull. That, tacked onto the idea that the Unconquered Sun is pushing against the Perfect Zeal effect of the Games with the full weight of his infinite power (which is insufficient), that the little extra Primordial juju helps him break it that last bit, whereas anyone else's authority asserted through charms just doesn't have the same kind of weight that the architects of the Games themselves have.

That is a good thought, because the Primordials are specifically immune to the addiction, and that's certainly how I'd run it if it came up. If you can break into the Jade Pleasure Dome, you deserve it.

EDIT: I also just like the idea of shoving an Infernal in a bag and using him like a bomb.

Wouldn't a Slayer work better for this sort of thing? Green Sun Nimbus Flare go go go gooooooooo.

What does that one do again?

Adds four dice to Martial Arts attacks, making it one of the best Hearthstones, but one of the most boring ones, too.

[Sanguine]

Don't forget the 5 dot solar one. You know, the one that make light.

At a mile wide radius. Which is actually pretty impressive if you think about it. Maybe not the most useful effect, but impressive nonetheless.

Edit: Actually no it's not. I forgot how far Animas extend.

[Xefas]

*WINS THE INTERNET*

D=

Though if you can convince TUS to sit still and let you do your mojo, you could just keep using the Charm on him till you beat the roll-off.

My thought is simply that once you've smuggled an Infernal into the Jade Pleasure Dome, regardless of your intentions, after your one good shot at the ruler of the cosmos, you're probably not getting a second one. If only from the dog-pile of Celestial Lions and Secret Service Gods that are in transit, hurdling through the air in your direction as you make your flying wire-fu rhetoric-punch.

Wouldn't a Slayer work better for this sort of thing? Green Sun Nimbus Flare go go go gooooooooo.

It's a...social bomb. A metaphorically fiery explosion of integrity and responsible abstinence.

[Kylarra]

+4 dice on Martial Arts attacks.

Surprising, considering a one-dot-lower hearthstone grants complete immunity to an entire aspect of combat, plus other benefits. Which one am I talking about? The Freedom Stone. "I has it, so grappling is no."

@V: Oh, my gosh, you're right! "Spending seven bonus points on the ability to make light is so awesome! It's not like I can spend a mote and... oh, wait, yeah."

One of my players has the freedom stone. It makes life interesting.

[SurlySeraph]

Lunar question. Can you take a supernatural animal, such as an Ink Monkey or Tomb Beast, as your spirit shape?

Also, I find the errata of Hybrid Body Rearrangement kinda worrying. The motes aren't committed, there's no cap to how many mutations you can buy, and they don't go away unless you want them to, so you can just keep stacking mutations on yourself as your motes regenerate. It seems like that interacts very badly with a lot of the mutations from Scroll of Heroes, particularly Essence Abundance, Supernatural Fortitude, and God-Body.

[Xefas]

Lunar question. Can you take a supernatural animal, such as an Ink Monkey or Tomb Beast, as your spirit shape?

Just because everyone picks wolves or foxes doesn't mean you have to.

[Lochar]

God-Body isn't a mutation. It's something specific to godbloods.

And motes spent on a Charm with a longer Duration than Instant are commited until the Charm is dismissed. I'd rule the same happens with the Knack.

[Sanguine]

Lunar question. Can you take a supernatural animal, such as an Ink Monkey or Tomb Beast, as your spirit shape?

As long as it doesn't naturally have a Mote Pool I think you're good.

[Xefas]

Also, I've decided to stop fiddling with the main SMA I've been working on and post it. It's about the principle of Connection, using the constellations as a lens to examine it. Form weapons are rope darts, fighting chains, and nunchuks; it requires at least 2 dots in Occult and at least one degree in Astrology as complementary abilities. Thoughts would be appreciated.

Considering this has fallen back a page or two, you may have more luck in the homebrew forum. If only because it won't get buried as quickly. Also,

Spoiler

Show

[SurlySeraph]

Cool, thanks. And thanks a lot for drawing up the Charm tree; I'll post it in Homebrew in the morning, with a bit more fluff.

Incidentally, the Ink Monkey totem I mentioned is for a high-Essence Changing Moon bureaucrat who's infiltrated Yu-Shan. He splits his time between helping the Bureau of Nature and messing with the Bureau of Destiny, mostly by using Monkey Shaping Emulation with Craft (Fate). Long-term goals would be to use those awesome Perception charms from GotMH: Luna to learn as much as possible from the Ivy Manse of Secrets; and to steal an important Sidereal's identity, using Flickering Star Infusion so his death doesn't show up on the Loom, Disguise of the New Face to simulate his anima, and the various Lunar charms that make people forget things to simulate Arcane Fate. And probably kidnapping the guy who inherits the Exaltation and sending him outside Fate, so no one notices that there appears to be an extra Sidereal running around.

The Tomb Beast is for a No Moon who's quite death-oriented but is trying to sway his Abyssal Mate back to the light, by engaging with her and showing her that she can use her deathly abilities to defend Creation rather than to serve the Neverborn. His Mate treats him as a combined guard dog, poison-testing apparatus, and garbage disposal, and doesn't think that she owes him anything for saving her from the Wyld Hunt, learning Necromancy for her, eating her minions who failed her, shapeshifting into said minions when she realizes she actually needed them around, etc.

God-Body isn't a mutation. It's something specific to godbloods.

Scroll of Heroes p. 135. It's an Abomination, and it doesn't say it's God-Blooded only like a bunch of the SoH mutations do (though the fluff only discusses God-Bloods).

And motes spent on a Charm with a longer Duration than Instant are commited until the Charm is dismissed. I'd rule the same happens with the Knack.

Which is a good ruling, though it specifically says the motes aren't committed. This is the first time I've seen errata that seemed worse than the original.

[Kylarra]

I don't think I'd agree that the errata is necessarily worse than the original. Getting whatever mutation for 1m committed is still pretty awesome.

[Kobold-Bard]

What Martial Arts styles are considered the best (if any particularly stand out as fantastic)? Any pitfall ones I should stay away from?

[Lord Raziere]

What Martial Arts styles are considered the best (if any particularly stand out as fantastic)? Any pitfall ones I should stay away from?

if by "best" you mean "most broken" its Obsidian Shards of Infinity Style, if by best you mean " most powerful and balanced" then you are probably talking about a Sidereal Martial Art anyways, Sidereal Martial Arts ARE the most powerful styles, Terrestrial martial arts is kiddie Exalt stuff, Celestial Martial Arts is what most Exalts strive for, but Sidereal Martial Arts....well lets just say that some of those styles are considered cheating. like the one I just mentioned.

[Kobold-Bard]

if by "best" you mean "most broken" its Obsidian Shards of Infinity Style, if by best you mean " most powerful and balanced" then you are probably talking about a Sidereal Martial Art anyways, Sidereal Martial Arts ARE the most powerful styles, Terrestrial martial arts is kiddie Exalt stuff, Celestial Martial Arts is what most Exalts strive for, but Sidereal Martial Arts....well lets just say that some of those styles are considered cheating. like the one I just mentioned.

It is a Sidereal I'm making. So you'd recommend Sidereal exclusive ones over general Celestial ones, goo to know.

What's so bad about Obsidian Shards of Infinity?

[Yuki Akuma]

For a start, it has a perfect defense counterattack charm that only has a very, very slim chance of being negated...

Oh and its capstone charm is literally "I Win".

[IcarusWings]

What Martial Arts styles are considered the best (if any particularly stand out as fantastic)? Any pitfall ones I should stay away from?

I'm lead to believe that all the currently published SMAs bar Sappire Veils of Passion, are horribly broken. Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield, for example, I think can easily lead to shenanigans like attacking everyone in Creation at once. That sort of thing. There are a few fixes out there for quite a few SMAs though, and if the Sidereal you're talking about is the one in my game, then you'll be allowed to use them.

[Tael]

Heh, yeah, I think the main purpose of a lot of the SMA capstone charms was to give the players the ability to say "LOL, I am ST now!"

[Teln]

I'm lead to believe that all the currently published SMAs bar Sappire Veils of Passion, are horribly broken. Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield, for example, I think can easily lead to shenanigans like attacking everyone in Creation at once. That sort of thing. There are a few fixes out there for quite a few SMAs though, and if the Sidereal you're talking about is the one in my game, then you'll be allowed to use them.

And Sapphire Veils of Passion is themed around sex, albeit tastefully so. This may or may not be a problem, depending on your group's level of maturity.

[Tavar]

Scroll of Heroes p. 135. It's an Abomination, and it doesn't say it's God-Blooded only like a bunch of the SoH mutations do (though the fluff only discusses God-Bloods).

The chapter does say that the mutations are normally specific to God-blooded. Page 129.