Warhammer 40K Tabletop XI: "More Threads than your Tactical Squad has room for!"

[Ninjaman]

You posted the same post twice.

[Arcanoi]

Captain
Artificer Armor
Storm Bolter
Lightning Claw

Consider

Captain - 145pts
- Relic Blade
- Storm Shield

instead. A bit more expensive, but much better.

Command Squad
Storm Bolters x4
Lightning Claws x4
Storm Shields x4
Company Champion
Standard Bearer

First of all, I'm pretty sure this squad is illegal; the Company Champion is not a veteran and thus can't take other options. Also, this squad is far too expensive for what it does, you're paying upwards of 50 points a model for 2 Lightning Claw attacks. There's really nothing redeemable about Command Squads unless they're on Bikes with Korsarro.

Dedicated Rhino transport
Second Storm Bolter
Hunter Killer Missile

If you're adamant on using the Command Squad, just give them a bare Rhino. It's going to be Flat-Outing up the board; why does it need to shoot?

Chaplain 110
Digital Weapons

The only problem with this guy is that he's not a Librarian, and you don't already have one.

Sterngaurd Veterans x10
Combi-flamers x10

No. Combi-Flamers are a terrible option for Sternguard, especially walking ones, and especially when they can take Heavy Flamers for ten points. This squad needs a Rhino and to drop its Combi-Weapons, or to just become a SternPod.

Venerable Dreadnought
Twin-linked Autocannon
Twin-linked Autocannon
Extra Armor

Don't use Venerable Dreads as Riflemen, they're too expensive. In fact, I'd advise against Venerable Dreads altogether. They're too expensive. Instead of this 200pt beast, you could take nearly two vanilla Riflemen.

Tactical Squad x10
Flamer
Lascannon

Tactical Squad x10
Flamer
Lascannon

Flamer/Missile, Plasma/Missile, and Plasma/Plasma are much better loadouts for Tactical Squads. Consider giving them Las/Plas Razorbacks as well.

Devastator squad x5
Heavy Bolter x4

Devastator squad x5
Missile Launcher x4

4x Missile Launchers is much better than 4x Heavy Bolters, and there's no reason not to take two squads of it.

Predator
Sergeant Chronus
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Storm Bolter
Hunter Killer Missile

Chronus is extremely overpriced, and the Storm Bolter and HK Missile are unnecessary. Consider Lascannon Sponsons instead of HB.

[Closet_Skeleton]

There's really nothing redeemable about Command Squads unless they're on Bikes with Korsarro.

4 plasma guns isn't too bad. But only if your elites slots are too full to take sternguard.

[Inquisitor D]

Must resist urge to declare that GW is going to crash and burn....

This has been a sad week for me. My last hopes are for something amazing on the 23rd.

[Cheesegear]

If nothing gets said about [Australia's horrid pricing scheme] (their refusal to even adress the issue only makes it worse) I'm going to get into this at Games Day if they have a Q&A. Maybe even if they don't.

Now I wish I was going.

Must resist urge to declare that GW is going to crash and burn...

They're really not.

[Timberwolf]

So, I just tried out one of the 2 lists I'm contemplating for the next tournament. I'm really absurdly pleased. I'll even do a short battle report.

Wolfie vs the Grey Knights

1750 points, Kill points Dawn of War.

I won the dice off and went second.

The lists

Wolfie

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HQ

Librarian 100
Powers - Shield of Sanguinius
The Sanguine Sword

Elite

Furioso Dreadnought 160
Frag Cannon
Drop Pod

Furioso Dreadnought 125
Talons

Troops

Scouts 98
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
+1 scout

Scouts 98
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
+1 scout


Scouts 98
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
+1 scout

Scouts 85
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher


Death Company
x 5 models 140
Power Weapon
Power Fist

Death Company Dreadnought 125

Heavy Support

Stormraven 255
Sponsons
Typhoon Launcher

Stormraven 230
Sponsons

Stormraven 230
Sponsons

Grey Knights (Approximate)

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Librarian - Powers included Warp Rift, Quickening, Might of Titan etc etc etc

Brotherhood Champion

Vindicare Assassin

6 man Terminator squad (hammers and Halberds and Psycannon)

6 man Strike Squad in H/B Razorback with Psycannon

Purifier squad (large with hammers and falchions)

Las Dreadnought

Landraider (lascannons)

Las and Melta Stormraven

Turn 1

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The Vindicare kills a scout missile launcher, Grey knight lascannon shooting kills another scout, making the cover save on 2. They run away, down 2 levels of the building they were in.

I bring on my 3 Stormravens from the board edge. the 2 with the Dreadnoughts move the full 24 and get their vitally important 4+ cover. The lascannon / Typhoon launcher stays at the back with the Librarian in. My shooting doesn't achieve much as everything's behind armour and I can't see most of it. I fire the lascannons at the Landraider and fail to penetrate. My Furioso drops and has a good go at the Vindicare with it's Frag cannon but fails to score.

Turn 2

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The Grey Knights fail their roll to deepstrike the Stormraven (apparently it only scatters D6, is there nothing they don't get ?) The Vindicare imobilises the Frag Furioso with a Turbo penetrator. The Landraider fires at the Stormraven with the Librarian in. the shot bounces off my 5+ cover save from SoS and it's other shot fails to penetrate another Stormraven.

I move closer and unload the Death Company Dread right next to the building with the assassin in. with the firm intention of meleeing him to death if I don't manage to shoot him. My Librarian toting Stormraven moves 24 inchews to be within 6 inches of the unloading Stormraven, in order to cover it with the cover save bubble. My final Stormraven moves closer to the Dreadnought and Razorback hovering in the backfield and immobilises the Razorback. The Frag cannon clips a wound off the vindicare and the Hurricane bolters finish him (he was a real worry if I'd left him.) The Death Company Dread, robbed of its priority target, meltaguns the Landraider and immobilises it. My attempts to kill the razorback with lascannon and Typhoon launcher and scouts fail due to dice on the penetration rolls.

Turn 3.

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The Grey Knights jump out of the immobilised vehicles and the enemy Stormraven arrives and immediately disgorges the Terminators. My lone Stormraven on the right of the board makes its cover saves against the gunship Multimelta and lascannon from the landraider. The Lascannon on the Stormraven misses my Lbrarian toting gunship. cue much psycannoning which takes a multimelta. The Librarian Warp Rifts the Death Company Dread and kills it

I finish the Dreadnought off and, in a sweet, sweet moment, lascannon the stormraven to death. Shooting from the gunships and frag missiles from the scouts clips a terminator, a couple of purifiers and a couple of strike squad Grey knights.

[Turn 4]

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The Librarian and his bodyguard head towards my immobilised dreadnought, sensing an easy kill. Cue the battle of the psychic hoods as my Librarian Stormraven gets into range. They attempt to Warprift the dreadnought and only get a "Stunned" result. Oh dear. The Landraider kills a Stormraven but by this point it had done its work and dropped the Death Company Dread. The Terminators attempt to assault my lone Stormraven on the right, hitting on 6's. They miss, thankfully as they were Strength 10. The Librarian and Purifiers assault my immobilised Dreadnought. My Librarian earns a gold star as he successfully prevents 2d6 armour penetration and Hammerhand. Twice (Justicar and Brotherhood Champion). The hammers fail to penetrate (initiative 10...) and my Dreadnought clips a purifier.

I drop my Talon Furioso right next to the GKT's and move my gunship away, taking the opportunity to hurricane bolter them as I do. I drop the Death Company and Librarian next to the Dreadnought v Purifier fight and my scouts frag template the strike squad again, killing another 2. The Grey Knight Librarian does his power that makes all assaulting units take difficult and dangerous terrain test. I manage to assault anyway and lose a single chainsword Death Company trooper to it. I roid up the Librarian with Sanguine Sword and go in swinging. I promptly instagib his Librarian and kill the Brotherhood champion, losing the power weapon Death company man in the process to the rule that takes the model that killed the champion. They killed a Death Company marine and put a wound on the Librarian. The Chainswords finish the rest of the purifiers who don't get to go, because they were initiative 4 (falchions) and I was 5, because I furious charged.

The Talon furioso kills the GKT's in a single round (the hammers didn't have that wonderful initiative 10) due to WS 6, rerollable wounds for Lightning claws and having a matched pair of them for extra attacks and starts to stomp towards the landraider with every intent of meltagunning it.

Turn 5 and 6

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By this point, all that was left was an imobilised Landraider and a pair of Interceptors. The Tank killed a Stormraven. I spent the next 2 turns failing Psychic tests, firing everything bar the hurricane bolters (which killed the interceptors) at the landraider and pulling weapons off it until my Librarian finally got his act together and, 4 auto hitting attacks on the charge at strength 10, finally wrecked it.

TLDR

Crushing Victory to the Blood Angels, by 9 kill points to 3.

Net losses were 2 Stormravens, a Death Company Dreadnought, 3 Death company and 4 scouts. The Techmarines will have a job restoring the legs on the Frag Furioso, but I'm sure they're up to it.

What I have learned.

Talon Dreadnoughts mince Terminators
3 Stormravens is better than 2
Typhoon launchers are surprisingly good.
Never, ever leave the house without your magic hat. Especially if you are going anywhere near Grey Knights.
Lots and lots of frag templates are actually quite effective against MEQ
Kill the Vindicare early.

[big teej]

greetings, I'm new to this particular series of threads. blessings of the primarch be upon you

I'm working on getting my group back into wargaming for the emperor!

we took a "indefinite hiatus" due to the fact the game was the same every time we played, and from far to many rules arguments heresy grows from idleness

so, to help kick start this idea over the summer, I'm attempting to organize a 700 point skirmish game under the previous edition's rules (it's what we have the most of)

I play space marines. for the emperor!

being a 700 point game, I naturally can't field my whole army (by last count, roughly 1500 points.... (maybe only a thousand, I can't quite remember)

anyways.
I'm here to ask for advice on what to bring to battle. my expected enemies are a chaos force including abaddon the destroyer and some nurglerite marines, and either an Ork mob, or eldar.

here's what I have to work with (remember, previous edition, 700 point skirmish)

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The Glorificator's Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes of The Most Holy Him On Earth.

HQ
Force Commander - 60 points
Storm Bolter + 5 points
power weapon + 15 points
artificer armour + 20 points
total: 100 points
- Command Squad
Apothecary - 35 points
Techmarine - 43 points
Standard Bearer - 33 points
Veteran Sergeant - 30 points
total: 141 points

Emperor's Champion - 105 points

HQ points total: 346 points

Elites/Heavy Support
7 terminators with storm bolters and powerfists
- 1 heavy flamer + 10 points
1 terminator sergeant with storm bolter and powersword
- 346 points

1 Dreadnought with Multi-melta, Storm Bolter, and Powerfist
- 115 points

1 Dreadnought with Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, PowerClaw + smoke launchers
- 118 points

Elites/Heavy Support total: 566

Troops
Space Marine Tactical Squad
6 space marines - 90 points
- missle launcher + 10 points
total: 100 points

Scout Squad
5 scouts - 65 points
2 sniper rifles + 10 points
2 shotguns - N/A
total: 75 points

Troops total: 175 points

Fast Attack
Assault Squad
5 assault marines - 125 points
1 plasma pistol + 5 points
total: 130 points

Fast attack total: 130 points

Force total: 1,230 points deployable

unfortunately, I can't swap out any weapons, and no other units are available to me (college budget)

so.
of the units given, what would you field in a 700 point 3 way game. and why?

why is definitly the more important bit.
praise the immortal emperor

also, just a reminder.

here's what I'm expecting out of opposing forces
Chaos

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I know the player has Abbaddon the Despoiler, and will field him in a heartbeat, any advice on slaying such a creature are much sought after.

I also know the player has a small squad of Nurgle Terminators. I am aware that I lack many weapons capable of destroying them at range.

the player also has some unknown number of normal nurgle marines and accolytes.

this is all the information I have on this player's army.

Orkz

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now that we no longer have an imperial guard player, this is hands down the largest army in my immediete area (or at least that I'm ever going to see.)

for purposes of discussion, you can assume he has access to the entire army list, because as far as I know, he does. he picked up a 3,000 point army for a fraction of its worth from a gamer gettign out of the hobby.

highlights
a maxed out Nob Mob (that will likely have proxied power claws)

a Stompa

Ghazkhul

that's about all I can offer on the Orkz specifically

Eldar

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I have absolutely no idea how many Eldar the Ork player has, I don't know if it's just a squad or two, or if he has a few hundered points hidden around.

so general anti-eldar tactics would be helpful

now, as I've stated, I'm EXPECTING chaos and Orkz
but there are a few other armies that could show up on game day. these would be far below the 700 point army buy in*, but would be allowed on the field none the less, wildcards if you will.

*with the exception of the imperial guard.

Wildcards

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Necrons - the necron player, if he even shows up, has at most a squad or two worth of necron warriors armed with gauss flayers. to my knowledge his army has not grown due to him dropping out of the group before we stopped playing warhammer, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise.

however! he also possesses a Necron Lord (unknown specifications)

the other main wildcard is the Imperial guard
the Ork player has probably hedged him out as having the largest army (which is a position I held before the Imperial guard player became funded by his parents )

I've no idea how much, if at all the Guardsman's army has grown, but from what I remember the major players were thus.

a basilisk - we could never figure out if the thing had a minimum range or not, so we just called it even and said it had range of "the whole table, and 2 feet past it"


a Baneblade - I believe the shadowsword variant, it never saw action due to me calling BS on not having the rules/statlines for it. but I digress

Commisar yarrick

a rather large squad of kasrkin

a Leman Russ battle tank

and a squad of heavy weapons troopers which caused my poor marines no end of discomfort.

now, last for your consideration is the tablespace we have.
I don't know what the standard size for a battle is, but our most readily available space is smaller than 6x6

I plan on acquiring a bigger playspace for this battle, but for now, assume we're working with EITHER (not in between, EITHER) a 58 by 36 inch table OR a pool table.

so...

thoughts?


any advice about what to expand with next is appreciated, my list is currently as follows
1. whirlwind
2. land speeder squadron
3. land raider
4. another whirlwind
5. more terminators
6. more tac-squads
7. a bike squadron
8. more scout squads
10. a librarian

and yes most of the above list was off the top of my head (after about 3)

[Timberwolf]

Entirely by chance, my latest Ebay purchase included the 4th ed Marine Codex, which is about 1 ft from me as I type. I shall peruse.

[big teej]

-epic facepalm-

I forgot the smoke Launchers on the second Dreadnought... let me go fix that before too many people wade through the wall of text

[Timberwolf]

I can get 708 points with this.

Maybe they'll let you off the 8 points (or you can ignore the heavy Flamer on the Dread and pretend it's a storm bolter. If your mate's proxying power klaws, I feel it'll be fair enough)

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HQ

Force Commander-
As per post 100

Troops

Tac Squad 100
As per post

Scouts 75
As per post

Elite
Terminator x 5 200

Dreadnought (AC) 118

Dreadnought (MM) 115

As for Abaddon, shoot him until he dies from it. Don't get into close combat unless you really have to. He's a monster and will kill you and anything you have here. Easily.

For expansion, more troops, especially if you upgrade to current rules. Your scout squad is schizophrenic and needs to specialise a bit more and you need more troops as they are the only thing that can hold objectives in 5th ed. More tac squads or more Scouts, according to your taste, but more of them for definite.

And maybe a couple of Drop pods for you Dreadnoughts.

[big teej]

I can get 708 points with this.

Maybe they'll let you off the 8 points (or you can ignore the heavy Flamer on the Dread and pretend it's a storm bolter. If your mate's proxying power klaws, I feel it'll be fair enough)

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HQ

Force Commander-
As per post 100

Troops

Tac Squad 100
As per post

Scouts 75
As per post

Elite
Terminator x 5 200

Dreadnought (AC) 118

Dreadnought (MM) 115

As for Abaddon, shoot him until he dies from it. Don't get into close combat unless you really have to. He's a monster and will kill you and anything you have here. Easily.

For expansion, more troops, especially if you upgrade to current rules. Your scout squad is schizophrenic and needs to specialise a bit more and you need more troops as they are the only thing that can hold objectives in 5th ed. More tac squads or more Scouts, according to your taste, but more of them for definite.

And maybe a couple of Drop pods for you Dreadnoughts.

any suggestions tacticswise? aside from pumping abaddon full of bullets?

also, newbish questions (more for curiosity, rather than questioning the usefulness)

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why the force commander as opposed to the Emperor's champion?

do you think I should move the dreadnoughts about as a pair? or have them roving outwards causing all sorts of havoc in my opponents' battle lines?

hm...

I suppose in summary I should really be asking one/two questions

1. why did these make the cut? (and how would you suggest employing them)

2. why didn't the others make the cut?

[Timberwolf]

I don't have the statline for the Emperor's Champion as I'm using Codex Space Marines and he's not in. I think he's a Black Templar thing rather than Codex Marines.

As for the Dreadnoughts, up to you really, It's not a given they'll make it to the opposition lines (hence the suggestion of Drop pods).

As to Why.

The Tac squads and scouts are compulsary, you must have 2 troops choices and those were the only 2.

The Terminators can support the shooting and, put with the Commander, assault nicely.

The Dreadnoughts give you credible antitank (a single missile launcher won't do much), the ability to kill things with rending and also will require serious kit (or Abaddon) to kill in close combat

As to tactics, stand back and shoot I guess. fill everything full of holes and then send in the Dreadnoughts and Terminators.

[big teej]

I don't have the statline for the Emperor's Champion as I'm using Codex Space Marines and he's not in. I think he's a Black Templar thing rather than Codex Marines.

As I understand it, when the editions ticked over he stopped being a "any space marine chapter" unit and became a Black Templar's exclusive.

Space Marine Codex Edition ????

Any Space Marine Army may be joined by an Emperor's Champoin. if you decide to take him then he counts as one of the HQ choics for the army but does not use up any choices on the force organisation chart. he must be used exactly as described below, and may not be given any additional equipment. he can only be used in a battle where both players have agreed to the use of special characters.

statline

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wargear: artificer armour, terminator honors, purity seals, iron halo, master-crafted bolt pistol, the black sword
special rules:
The Black Sword: the black sword is a potent power weapon blah blah blah
may be used 1 handed and treated as a power weapon with +1 strenght, may be used double handed and counts as powerfist

challenge: at the start of any assault phase that the champion is in combat he may issue a challenge, opponent must choose an opposing character to fight him. no other models my attack either combatant, outcome of single combat determines outcome of assault.

always an independent character: the emperor's champmion may not be accompanied by a command squad

the Glorificator's are Non-Cannon*, I figured that gave me free rein to take a "unique" unit if I felt it fit the fluffyness of my marines.

*there is no astartes chapter of such a name that I am aware of at least.

As for the Dreadnoughts, up to you really, It's not a given they'll make it to the opposition lines (hence the suggestion of Drop pods).

I know, they've been semi-routinely been shot to pieces before making it into assault in the past (I'm hoping to change that a bit this time around.)

drop pods are currently outside of possibility (no $$$$$) but they'll certainly be added to my list of requisitions

.

The Dreadnoughts give you credible antitank (a single missile launcher won't do much), the ability to kill things with rending and also will require serious kit (or Abaddon) to kill in close combat

the dreadnoughts don't stand a chance against abaddon do they? I imagine the terminator's are in the same boat.

.

As to tactics, stand back and shoot I guess. fill everything full of holes and then send in the Dreadnoughts and Terminators.

and obviously my primary target is abaddon, after which it's safe for my big uglies to muck in.


EDIT: double epic facepalm...

this is what I get for typing from memory, one of my terminators has a heavy flamer

[Closet_Skeleton]

As I understand it, when the editions ticked over he stopped being a "any space marine chapter" unit and became a Black Templar's exclusive.

Okay, you've managed to confuse some people here.

You said "previous edition" when you're actually further behind than you thought.

You're using the 3rd edition Space Marine codex, where techmarines were part of the command squad, the standard HQ choice was called Space marine hero and came in leader, commander and force commander flavours and you could take the Emperor's Champion no matter your chapter.

The next edition after that was the 4th ed Space Marine Codex. In this one, techmarines are an elites choice, the HQ choice is called Commander and has a choice in stat lines between Captain (with the old commander stats) and chapter master (with the old force commander stats) where the captain was utterly useless since he had lower leadership and a "give people my leadership" power. This edition got rid of the Emperor's Champion and gave Black Templars a seperate codex where the EC had a new statline.

The current edition is the 5th edition book, where there isn't an armoury and the HQ choice is called Captain (with the old force commander stats +1 higher WS) and Chapter Master (with the same stats as Captain but a differant body guard and the ability to call in orbital strikes). The Black Templar book is still 4th edition and very similar to the invalidated 4th ed generic codex.

As I understand it, when the editions ticked over he stopped being a "any space marine chapter" unit and became a Black Templar's exclusive.

Actually he was Black Templar exclusive in the first printing of that book. They erratad him to be available to everyone later some time after Black Templars got their Codex Armageddon rules (that still needed the 3rd ed codex to work).

The generic Emperor's Champion available to every chapter has been replaced by Chapter and Company Champions available in the bodyguard units of Captains and Chapter Masters. Who suck in comparison.

[Timberwolf]

You got a page reference for the Champion ? Because he's not in this splendid 2004 Codex I have here. What exactly does it say on your Codex and when is it from ?

[Closet_Skeleton]

You got a page reference for the Champion ? Because he's not in this splendid 2004 Codex I have here. What exactly does it say on your Codex and when is it from ?

He's on page 40 or so of the 1998 codex. Read my post.

His quote is from an erratad printing that I don't have.

[big teej]

Okay, you've managed to confuse some people here.

You said "previous edition" when you're actually further behind than you thought.

You're using the 3rd edition Space Marine codex, where techmarines were part of the command squad, the standard HQ choice was called Space marine hero and came in leader, commander and force commander flavours and you could take the Emperor's Champion no matter your chapter.

The next edition after that was the 4th ed Space Marine Codex. In this one, techmarines are an elites choice, the HQ choice is called Commander and has a choice in stat lines between Captain (with the old commander stats) and chapter master (with the old force commander stats) where the captain was utterly useless since he had lower leadership and a "give people my leadership" power. This edition got rid of the Emperor's Champion and gave Black Templars a seperate codex where the EC had a new statline.

The current edition is the 5th edition book, where there isn't an armoury and the HQ choice is called Captain (with the old force commander stats +1 higher WS) and Chapter Master (with the same stats as Captain but a differant body guard and the ability to call in orbital strikes). The Black Templar book is still 4th edition and very similar to the invalidated 4th ed generic codex.



Actually he was Black Templar exclusive in the first printing of that book. They erratad him to be available to everyone later some time after Black Templars got their Codex Armageddon rules (that still needed the 3rd ed codex to work).

The generic Emperor's Champion available to every chapter has been replaced by Chapter and Company Champions available in the bodyguard units of Captains and Chapter Masters. Who suck in comparison.

-starts rocking back and forth-
sooo confused!!!

so basically.... almost ... a quarter of my army is unplayable as is?

when did the most recent edition come out?

if I shelled out for that rulebook for nothing....

...

I just might cry...

oh dear good lord I think I may have bought the 4thed rulebook!



oh noes!!!!

.... at the risk of my sanity, can someone direct me to a picture of THE MOST up to date rulebook?

so I can pray that its the same one?

[Closet_Skeleton]

-starts rocking back and forth-
sooo confused!!!

so basically.... almost ... a quarter of my army is unplayable as is?

when did the most recent edition come out?

if I shelled out for that rulebook for nothing....

...

I just might cry...

oh dear good lord I think I may have bought the 4thed rulebook!



oh noes!!!!

.... at the risk of my sanity, can someone direct me to a picture of THE MOST up to date rulebook?

so I can pray that its the same one?

Current rulebook

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1400018

Current codex space marines

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1550002

[big teej]

Current rulebook

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1400018

Current codex space marines

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1550002

HUZZAH!!

I do have the current rulebook.

the current codex is outside my budget until I find a new job.

so I suppose I have a new question(s)

1) is there anyone that plays the relic that is 3rd edition?
2) where can I find such a person?
3) what do I have to do to make my current army playable in the current addition?

4) what are the major changes that have occured in the intervenening years from my initial interst back in 2003-5, my resurgent interest in 2008-9, and my newfound interest (5-17-2011)?

and how much "relearning" and "unlearning" am I going to have to do?

I has a sad, the universe has left me behind.

[Closet_Skeleton]

In the new rules your army is:

Space marine captain
storm bolter, artificer armour, power weapon
133

Which is terrible, but you can pretend your power weapon is a relic blade (a two handed power sword and yes you can have a two handed sword and a storm bolter now), which would make him 148 points and less terrible.

Command Squad
company standard bearer (veteran status and apothecary is included in the base cost)
130 points

Elites

8 Terminators
heavy flamer
325 points

Dreadnought with multimelta and power fist
105 points

Dreadnought with Assault cannon, power fist and heavy flamer
125 points (smoke launchers are free now)

Techmarine
50 points (which gives you 4 elites choices so you can't have them all)

Troops
5 space marines
90 points (giving heavy weapons to squads under 10 strong is now illegal, welcome to 5th ed)

5 Scouts
75 points

Fast Attack
5 Assault marines with plasma pistol
115 points

So 1148 points basically. You could add another hundred or two if you used the Emperor's Champion for something.

5th ed has objectives than only troops units can hold. So minimum troops doesn't really cut it anymore.

Good luck getting a job I guess.

1) is there anyone that plays the relic that is 3rd edition?
2) where can I find such a person?

The friends you were expecting to play with presumably.

I have no idea if there's a 3rd ed grognards forum lying about somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised.

[big teej]

In the new rules your army is:

Space marine captain
storm bolter, artificer armour, power weapon
133

Which is terrible, but you can pretend your power weapon is a relic blade (a two handed power sword and yes you can have a two handed sword and a storm bolter now), which would make him 148 points and less terrible.

Command Squad
company standard bearer (veteran status and apothecary is included in the base cost)
130 points

Elites

8 Terminators
heavy flamer
325 points

Dreadnought with multimelta and power fist
105 points

Dreadnought with Assault cannon, power fist and heavy flamer
125 points (smoke launchers are free now)

Techmarine
50 points (which gives you 4 elites choices so you can't have them all)

Troops
5 space marines
90 points (giving heavy weapons to squads under 10 strong is now illegal, welcome to 5th ed)

5 Scouts
75 points

Fast Attack
5 Assault marines with plasma pistol
115 points

So 1148 points basically. You could add another hundred or two if you used the Emperor's Champion for something.

5th ed has objectives than only troops units can hold. So minimum troops doesn't really cut it anymore.

Good luck getting a job I guess.



The friends you were expecting to play with presumably.

I have no idea if there's a 3rd ed grognards forum lying about somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised.

sooo I take it they also removed the whole "dreadnoughts count for elites and heavy support" thing as well?

perhaps I should stay back here in the relic of 3rd edition.... I'd get to keep my missle launcher, and my champion...

are there any other sweeping changes I should be aware of?

-sigh-

I wish there was still a GW shop nearby, then I could just show up and say "hey I haven't played in over 7 years, what have I missed!?"

alas...

[Arcanoi]

sooo I take it they also removed the whole "dreadnoughts count for elites and heavy support" thing as well?

A Master of the Forge HQ choice allows you to take Dreadnoughts as Elites or Heavy Support.

If you dropped the Assault Marines and the techmarine, you'd have a 1000pt list. Not a very good one, but still.

[Justyn]

Command Squad
company standard bearer (veteran status and apothecary is included in the base cost)

You could add another hundred or two if you used the Emperor's Champion for something.

Pay the 15 points and use your Emperor's Champion model as the Company Champion. He's Weapon Skill 5 and has a free power weapon.

5th ed has objectives than only troops units can hold. So minimum troops doesn't really cut it anymore.

Space Marines can combat squad up so that one troops choice can control two objectives... or even more if the're close enough together.

[Cheesegear]

the current codex is outside my budget until I find a new job.

If this is truly the case, you're going to run into a lot of problems. Your army is nigh-unplayable until you have a proper Codex.

what are the major changes that have occured in the intervenening years from my initial interst back in 2003-5, my resurgent interest in 2008-9, and my newfound interest (5-17-2011)?

The biggest one I can think of is that Victory Points no longer exist, you can now make any unit you want cost as much as you like, and there's no real downside except for the fact that you lose points elsewhere. But, still, 'making points back' is no longer a concern when list-building.

Troops are the only Scoring unit. Unless you're in high-points, high-level play, it helps to load out on Troops. In high-points, high-level play, Troops are often ignored for things that can kill better. But, from the looks of things, you haven't got a huge list, so, starting small, and with Troops it is. DO NOT GO MINIMUM SQUAD SIZES UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING! (i.e; Razorspam, which you're not)

Assault. Is. Decisive. The new rules for Sweeping Advance are pretty much broken, however the rules for Space Marines say that they can't be Sweeping Advanced. So, yeah.

In Codex Marines for Assault you're looking at;

Spoiler

Show

Hammernators.
Command Squads with Lightning Claws (as in, singular, each) and Storm Shield. Preferably on Bikes. Preferably with Shrike or Kor'Sarro - or both - attached.
Vanguard (on foot!) with Shrike, or with Kor'Sarro (and Chaplain optional) in a Land Raider. The main draw for Vanguard over Hammernators is that Hammernators can't Sweeping Advance. If you know your meta-game doesn't really play all that many Marines (...I'll believe that when I see it), and you know Sweeping Advance could or would be a factor, try this unit instead.

For low points, low budget play, it's hard to go past Chaplain with Jump Pack and Assault Marines.

These are Space Marines' 'brick' units and you shouldn't really leave home without at least one of these units. Most of the time.

If you're one of 'those' people that likes to be the best and only the best and everything else is crap and what's a Theme List and 40K is supposed to be fun?
...Then, look into getting He'Stan, Shrike or Kor'Sarro immediately and focus on building your army around them.

Of course, without a Codex, most of this means nothing and that's kind of the point I was trying to make above.

[Borgh]

so, we are pretty much out of this thread now.

thread 12: only a tyranid can keep counting these
thread 12: Angron's thread is full of rage
thread 12: Bring a helmet for the quotewars
thread 12: Guarding agains darkness witha flashlight, tshirt and quotebutton

[evisiron]

so, we are pretty much out of this thread now.

thread 12: only a tyranid can keep counting these
thread 12: Angron's thread is full of rage
thread 12: Bring a helmet for the quotewars
thread 12: Guarding agains darkness witha flashlight, tshirt and quotebutton

Thread 12: An extra 2d6 if within 6.
Thread 12: At last, rapid fire range!
Thread 12: Now available in resin.
Thread 12: Where the elite, meet. To melta spam.

[Winterwind]

Thread 12: At last, rapid fire range!

I'm for this one. Or some variation thereof, like "Open rapid fire!", or something.

[Irbis]

1) is there anyone that plays the relic that is 3rd edition?

Well... I gues they would allow you in friendly games. The problem is, 3rd Ed Codex SM was crap compared to newest one.

3) what do I have to do to make my current army playable in the current addition?

You can, say, buy Codex: Space Wolves instead, very flexible, strong and flavourful, and if you want to expand your army later one Battleforce with give you bits to decorate/fluffify your entire army. They seem to match what you already have better than SM, but that's just IMHO.

[FlyingScanian]

You can, say, buy Codex: Space Wolves instead, very flexible, strong and flavourful, and if you want to expand your army later one Battleforce with give you bits to decorate/fluffify your entire army. They seem to match what you already have better than SM, but that's just IMHO.

What, what? It seems in my eyes to be a quite ordinary SM force (after someone has killed of all the troops). I see almost NOTHING that makes it seem like a Space Wolf force (Especially not with the terminators all being vanilla "tactical" termies...)

[Lowkey Lyesmith]

I'm for this one. Or some variation thereof, like "Open rapid fire!", or something.

Rapid fire flamewar.
Now with extra rapid fire
Knock knock. Whos there. Rapid fire!
Blood for the... rapid fire.

I could go on for ages.