ItP Chapter II- Battle for Haruki-Kun

[Reinholdt]

Qwaz and Gray Mage were lucky early kills.

We scried Atreyu early, but didn't kill him till later (our mistake as it cost us Internet Flea).

Fleeing Coward, Inhuman Bot, and Banjo all roleclaimed in thread.

Ramsus got lynched and cyberwolf got auto-lynched.

We had no idea Deathslayer7 was the baner until he was lynched at the end, nor did we know Tasroth was Haruki.

So, we only really got the first three I mentioned. Everyone else handled the rest for us.

[Lex-Kat]

Question Time!!

1} Did you like the narrations?

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles?

3} How did the narrators themselves do?

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.

5} Any other suggestions?

[rakkoon]

My children, you make me proud
First time I could choose my own wolves and that was fun. Shame about loosing Internet Flea but we avenged his death
It was close at the end, we would win anyway but would I live to see the day?

Questions and Answers
1} Did you like the narrations?
Yep, final one was fabulous, I like the playing with colours

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles?
We didn't need all the beast roles apparently, might be a coincidence. How was this handled in the previous game?

3} How did the narrators themselves do?
We love y'all

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.

5} Any other suggestions?
Keep up the good work?

[Deathslayer7]

Well I had three out of four of my hunches right.

Reinholdt, Rakkoon and Rogue Nine.

I thought Alarra was a wolf as well though.

[Bobby Archer]

1} Did you like the narrations?
I enjoyed them, although I'll confess I skimmed one or two.

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles?
Maybe the Playground just got unlucky this time, but it seems to me that with a group of hand-picked wolves that all start out together and have a variety of powers at their disposal, the Playground needs some kind of advantage. At the very least, possibly a less random Seer/Fool system.

3} How did the narrators themselves do?
I thought the narrators did a bang-up job.

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.
Obviously, I would have preferred to survive my death scene, but I have to say, my "last thoughts" still amuse me. Kudos!

5} Any other suggestions?
Um...nothing I can think of.

[Ramsus]

1} Did you like the narrations?
As always they were excellent.

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles?
Whatever role I am should win, even if dead, when anybody wins.

I think the ones that currently exist are fine but as always I want more power roles so there's less chance of me being a villager.

(inb4 "this role is not a villager" power. What would that be? Nuetral villager? lol.)

3} How did the narrators themselves do?
Pretty good I'd say except for the following...

I think the timing I got told to pick who to defend is what killed me. A day earlier or later and I would have been safe from picking to defend Banjo who Haruki was for some reason dead set on killing. Er...though of course I kinda wish the narrators had been able to think up something else for my win condition like was the initial idea.

I was so happy to have gotten what I view as one of the best roles in the entire game.

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.
lol, nope. I thought it was pretty clever. And well written!

5} Any other suggestions?
People should stop killing me. Please?

Start the next one of these up as quickly as possible. Who's the Battle going to be for this time anyway? When to we get to see the proposed role list?

[banjo1985]

Well, that was very, very frustrating.

Kudos to the wolves though, they played very well and watched us rip ourselves apart. It's hard being a useful power role when only Tasroth trusts you!
Without the Haruki/Me/Ramsus arguments we may have stood a chance, but with that going on the wolves had a pretty easy time of it. They just had to make me look suspicious, which I was doing a fairly good job of myself.

I'd forgotten cd4 was playing and away, I wouldn't have bothered fighting at all if I'd have known, as we couldn't get the votes to get a wolf lynch anyway.

Did you like the narrations?
They were light hearted and funny, and I liked the way they often took how things went during the day to shape the narration. No problems there!

Any changes you'd make to the roles?
Having a Seer/Fool combined in one role is horrible. You don't know when you can trust your scries and when you can't, and without being given any clue to the pattern you can't trust any result you get at any time. Even when the other seer/fool dies your no better off, whereas in other games it becomes pretty obvious soon after.

Honestly, maybe someone with more talent could have made something out the role, but I was always one step behind. I couldn't develop a trustworthy network, and couldn't find a wolf for love nor money. I'd quite like to see the two good seer/fools removed and replaced with one seer and one fool, because as it is the scriers are actually a detriment to their own side, rather than the powerful but fragile wolf-fonder they should be.

How did the narrators themselves do?
Timely narrations with a healthy dose of humour. Great job as always!

If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.
None at all, except that it came a bit too late to save the village. I needed to die sooner to clear the waters for the remaining villagers, which I think is the exact reason the wolves kept me alive until the end, vainly trying to convince everyone I was actually after the wolves.

Any other suggestions?
MOAR NAOW! I'd like an opportunity to win back some pride.
But if the seers are going to remain as they are, please, please, please give the role to someone else.

[billtodamax]

1} Did you like the narrations? They were excellent as always Lex

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles? Seer/Fool thing that banjo detailed.

3} How did the narrators themselves do? No complaints here

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.
Nope.

5} Any other suggestions?
Nope.

In other news: Lady T! Why did you keep trying to lynch a seer claim? Whhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyy?

Excellent work wolves.

[Lex-Kat]

I do plan to not have the Seer/Fools remain as they are. I don't think that idea works very well.

But mostly, this is Supagoof's game. I just narrate. I suck at creating new roles.

[Tasroth]

1} Did you like the narrations?
Very much so.

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles?
As everyone else has said, change the Seer/Fool roles, it makes it far too hard for the village, particularly given the wolves have an entire team of powerroles.

3} How did the narrators themselves do?
Fine.

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.
Does that last one count as my death? Kind of I guess? Well, no complaints if it does.

5} Any other suggestions?
Nothing springing to mind.


Also:

A) My suspicions were right, I really did think that it was basically team Real Life pointing at banjo, and the remaining playgrounders pointing at one of them.

B) Even if otakuryoga had pointed and cd4 wasn't away, we couldn't have won that last Day. Although we had one more team member, Reinholdt's triple vote gave them one more vote overall. Provided they didn't point at me, they had a majority.

C) With hindsight, I should have figured out not just his team but his specific role when Reinholdt posted that song...

[banjo1985]

I do plan to not have the Seer/Fools remain as they are. I don't think that idea works very well.

It's not necessarily a bad set of roles, and the way the game went probably muddied my view of the role anyway.

It just seems like there's a lot to try and work out. You don't just have to work out whether your scries are right or not, you have to try and work out when they're right and when they're not, and the sequence they follow. Early game you can't trust any result you get, so you can't get a proxy. You also can't rely on scrying someone that dies that night because that just proves that night's scry is right or wrong. You could give your scry result in thread and puch for a lynch if you find a wolf, but if you're the fool at that time you just end up looking very suspicious, and even if that scry was right you still don't know whether you can trust tomorrow's or yesterdays.

Essentially it makes it really, really hard to network in any meaningful way, which is something the seer was originally built for. I think a lot of unlikely situations would have to drop into place one after another for a seer/fool to work out his scry pattern with certainty early enough in the game for it to be useful. With a very powerful wolf team with swanky roles this is a handicap the villagers could do without.

[Internet Flea]

I bet you could add a role or two that knows who the Fool is on any given day and it would greatly help the villagers.

EDIT: That is, which role is the Fool for the day. Not which player.

[Gray Mage]

1} Did you like the narrations? Yes, I've enjoyed them very much, even the one of my own death. Noticing that it had been a year at that month was a nice touch that even I didn't notice before I read it.

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles? Well, the seer/fool changing makes things harder for town. I think Internet Flea's idea is good. Or maybe make so that when one of them dies, the other is always the seer?

3} How did the narrators themselves do? Lex and Supa's narration were awesome, as always, and blade did well for his first time narrating, I think.

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course. None.

5} Any other suggestions? Not that I can think of.

[Lady Tialait]

In other news: Lady T! Why did you keep trying to lynch a seer claim? Whhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyy?

Excellent work wolves.

I didn't! I was the neutral baner!

[Qwaz]

1} Did you like the narrations?
Those I read. Definetly. I must confess that (as my own death suggested) I have been focusing on Classic.

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles?
I'll leave this to anyone who got more than one vote.

3} How did the narrators themselves do?
Good Stuff. See 1.

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.
Actually loved it. So well put together and topical.

5} Any other suggestions?
Nope.

[Reinholdt]

I think I'm just against the whole seer/fool swap idea altogether. It doesn't need tweaking or additional roles. It needs to be dropped. It basically makes both players fools with a ~75% chance of being right.

Not that it mattered much in this particular game. With all the role claiming going on, we were voiding Inhuman Bot and Banjo left and right.

Supagoof was a hard role to pull off because I had to be very careful how I voted while my power was on. The day in which ds7 got lynched was particularly dangerous. I almost ended up lynching Lady T with my vote alone.
So I switched and did some PMing to get some more cover.
But it made it fun and I wouldn't change the role or anything. It just requires more sneakiness.

[Haruki-kun]

Question Time!!

1} Did you like the narrations?

Yes.

2} Any changes you'd make to the roles?

Yes. First, the Seer/Fool randomly switching throughout the game makes the role pointless and crippling for the village. Considering the seer has a 50% chance of scrying right, he may as well just be the fool. Furthermore, that's only 50% chance in case they don't all scry the same person. Helgraf's Scry interference rule was also not meant for games with 5 scrying roles. It defeats the purpose of the seer. I suggest removing one or two of the neutral seers and then removing Scry interference.

To counteract this making the village too powerful, make the Seer and the Fool unable to scry exact roles. They should only scry the faction the player belongs to, Villager, Wolf, or Neutral.

The Emperor role (Supagoof). I don't think this role should exist, and if it does it should be Neutral. Giving the wolves two extra votes makes it very easy for them to control the village, and not with persuasion. When the game is as close as it was in the end, there's just no point in having the villagers continue to play, as the number of votes available to the wolves outnumbers the available villagers to try to lynch them. At that point the wolves can just say "well, game over" and out themselves without dying.

Finally: Masons.

3} How did the narrators themselves do?

The narrators did well.

4} If you died, any complaints about your death scene? Other than you died in it, of course.

Not really. .-.

5} Any other suggestions?

All answered in question 2.

[Reinholdt]

I disagree with the analysis of the Goof role personally. The only day I used it to any actual effect was the last day, and even then the people who didn't vote showed we didn't need it, so it wasn't very controlling at all. AND we had to leave Banjo alive specifically to avoid accidentally trying to lynch Haruki (role).

[Haruki-kun]

I disagree with the analysis of the Goof role personally. The only day I used it to any actual effect was the last day, and even then the people who didn't vote showed we didn't need it, so it wasn't very controlling at all. AND we had to leave Banjo alive specifically to avoid accidentally trying to lynch Haruki (role).

If everyone had voted, would the village have been able to switch the lynch around?

[Reinholdt]

If everyone had voted, would the village have been able to switch the lynch around?

In this particular situation, no. But even then, if Goof didn't exist that's looking at the instances where everyone voted and everyone voted correctly. And I think that's seriously stretching things in order to declare a role bad. There were a whole lot of other issues that caused that situation to even come about.

[Haruki-kun]

In this particular situation, no. But even then, if Goof didn't exist that's looking at the instances where everyone voted and everyone voted correctly. And I think that's seriously stretching things in order to declare a role bad. There were a whole lot of other issues that caused that situation to even come about.

Yes, I know. My opinion is that the role doesn't work. Precisely because situations occur that can make it go bad. You told me yourself over MSN that the day was unwinnable by the Playgrounders.

I think the role doesn't work when it's on the wolves' side.

[Rogue Nine]

If everyone had voted, would the village have been able to switch the lynch around?

Had everyone voted:

Without the Goof role it would have been 7 to 6- Village.

With it, it was 8 to 7- Wolf.

Even without it, with our 2 living beasts, we could have still won in the next few days.

[Haruki-kun]

Had everyone voted:

Without the Goof role it would have been 7 to 6- Village.

With it, it was 8 to 7- Wolf.

Even without it, with our 2 living beasts, we could have still won in the next few days.

I'm not saying you wouldn't have won anyway, I'm just talking about the Goof role. <.<

[Reinholdt]

Yes, I know. My opinion is that the role doesn't work. Precisely because situations occur that can make it go bad. You told me yourself over MSN that the day was unwinnable by the Playgrounders.

I think the role doesn't work when it's on the wolves' side.

The game was unwinningable the second DS7 died, purely because of the beasts.

I think the role works fine on the wolves side, especially with their being a nullifier of the role and the same role on the villagers team. I had to spend most of the game not using it and the second half of the game doing shady vote changes to avoid getting caught. People just have to watch the lynch days for it is all.

[Qwaz]

Was there a "Real Life QT"? If so, any chance of a look? I love behind the scenes stuff and seeing what people were thinking and when

[Haruki-kun]

The game was unwinningable the second DS7 died, purely because of the beasts.

I think the role works fine on the wolves side, especially with their being a nullifier of the role and the same role on the villagers team. I had to spend most of the game not using it and the second half of the game doing shady vote changes to avoid getting caught. People just have to watch the lynch days for it is all.

That's just the point I'm trying to make. The game shouldn't reach a point where it's unwinnable by either side. The reason why the wolves win when they outnumber the villagers is because if they outnumber the villagers the villagers can't win, so it becomes pointless to continue. If the game is unwinnable by one side, the other side already won.

[Lex-Kat]

There was the off chance that one or two of the "Wolves" would forget to vote. Not likely, but possible.

So there was a chance the villagers would have gotten themselves a wolf.

And, if Banjo had been Haruki, then Supagoof's extra votes wouldn't have counted. So they would have outed themselves.

Also, it was only luck that got Lex-Kat (( Feels weird talking about myself in the third person.)). If he'd remained then Supagoof's Power could have been equalized.

And then the Cyberwolf disappeared. And though a Neutral, he could have been a factor that Supagoof would have had to contend with. So the Anti-Narrator will remain with our villains.

It's only the villager roles that need to be more empowered. And as I mentioned before, there will be a significant change to the Seer/Fool roles. Likely just making them regular Seer and Fool. We'll see.

[Reinholdt]

I think that's more an issue with the style of the game than the actual role Haruki, but I understand your opinion.

Was there a "Real Life QT"? If so, any chance of a look? I love behind the scenes stuff and seeing what people were thinking and when

Here.

[Rogue Nine]

My only suggestion is that the Neutrals should have a clear incentive for joining one side or the other. Right now in most games, this included, Neutral is just another word for "Good". Here are some suggestions:

-One of the Seer/Defenders has to defend a Playgrounder, the other a Lifer. But neither are told the role, just the name. Sure they just have to waste one scry to be sure.
-Change the role to "Seeker"- Each one is given a power role, one good the other evil, and they scry "XXX" or "Not XXX" until they discover that person, then they become a regular Seer. They can choose to join the role they discovered or not.

[Lady Tialait]

Heh, I didn't know how well my plan worked.

I figured that Banjo was the Seer, I wanted the Wolves to swarm behind me, so I could have a list of targets for everyone. It worked.....but sadly I doubted myself....but really

"it's obvious" is a silly reason for anything....*sigh* It worked too..I should have went with my gut.