Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[Hootman]

My goal is to get a competent (not necessarily competitive) 1500-1750 point army list. Any suggestions on where to go/what to get from here?
And of course, thanks in advance for the help!

Wow, Pedro for $5? I'm jealous. Some day I want to run a Pedro/Lysander army with triple Sternguard, but the expense I'd incur from the specials is slightly prohibitive. Anyways, on to listcrafting!

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Pedro Kantor, 190pts

Terminator Assault Squad 5, 460pts
-1 LC, 4 TH/SS
+Land Raider Crusader (Multimelta)

Sternguard 10, 325pts
-8 Combimeltas
+Rhino

Tactical Marines 10, 255pts
-Melta, Plasma Cannon
+Razorback (Las/Plas)

Tactical Marines 10, 255pts
-Melta, Plasma Cannon
+Razorback (Las/Plas)

Predator, 85pts
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Total: 1570

Now, this is FAR (FFFAAAARRRR) from a 'perfect' list, but it should be servicible for any casual game with a little tweaking. I tried not to use things you don't have, or that you couldn't engineer with a little elbow grease and some imagination (IE, the Razor-turrets, which could be converted from the Pred's Lascannon options).

If you have yet to discover the miracle of sticky-tack (Handi-Tack, whatever, it goes by many names), I highly recommend it when testing any weapon loadouts on vehicles, as it keeps things together on the tabletop without requiring a permanent commitment.

Now, if you're actually planning on buying a few more things, I would consider getting a Drop Pod--first turn Sternguard can be very nasty. However, having used this strategy myself, if your opponent doesn't have AT LEAST 1 big juicy target, (preferably 2, right next to each other, so you can combat squad and ruin both) that will make you shout "WORTH IT!" when your Sterns are inevitably annialated on your opponent's next turn...well, then the Suicide Sternguard strategy just kind of wastes 325 points worth of veteran soldiers. Oops.

Other personal favorites include Sniper Scouts (mine always seem to fail me, but Cheesegear has great luck with them), Terminator Librarian with a Storm Shield, and Ironclad Dreadnoughts (also great in Drop Pods).

[Gryffon]

A polish portal Cytadela.pl posted very interesting news today:



for those in Poland, here is the link.
http://www.cytadela.pl/modules.php?n...ticle&sid=1766

Yay! New Necrons make me happy. I've soon a lot of "I just hope it's not Tomb Kings in Spaaaaaaace," but to be honest, I'm kind of looking forward to that, as I play TK in fantasy.

[Tome]

Yay! New Necrons make me happy. I've soon a lot of "I just hope it's not Tomb Kings in Spaaaaaaace," but to be honest, I'm kind of looking forward to that, as I play TK in fantasy.

Tomb Kings IN SPAAAAAAACE would actually be pretty good, what with Tomb Kings being pretty good anyway. If that were actually the worst case scenario then you could almost be optimistic.

Of course, if it turns out to be anything like this little snippet, I might have to jump on the band wagon. Again.

[Zorg]

Pics for the pics god, leaks for the leaks throne!

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[Teln]

Speaking of new minis, any word on official Thunderwolf Cavalry models?

[Zorg]

There is a rumour (stress: rumour) that GW legal has advised holding off on releasing some models such as the Thunderwolves and Tervigon due to their lawsuit against Chapterhouse.
The wrinkle is that merely having the name and concept art might not be enought to claim ownership of a miniature design if they don't have it sculpted/produced. As there are a number of 3rd party Thunderwolves out there, and Chapterhouse has a Tervigon conversion kit, it is possible GW would open themselves up to being sued since someone produced a miniature first.

But, it's also highly likely they just didn't realise how popular they'd be, and sculpting/releasing them got lost in the shuffle, and then came Finecast, then changing to single massive releases etc... Though the rumour does go on that the legal issue might be why GW is changing from trickle realeases of models to all on one jobs like Dark Eldar or Ogres.


TL;DR: No.

[Squark]

YAY! Finally some more word on a new Necron release!

[Pokonic]

Pics for the pics god, leaks for the leaks throne!

"sniff" What a wonderful new toy for my friends army!

[Etcetera]

The back section of those arks are fine, it's just the front part that makes me want to pretend they don't exist.

[Tome]

Aaaaaaaand it looks like we're getting Tomb Kings IN SPACE, going by the style of those vehicles.

Con: It means we're less likely to get some of the more awesome possibilities. Pro: It's safe and means it's less likely that Ward has mutilated the fluff.

[Trixie]

A polish portal Cytadela.pl posted very interesting news today:

for those in Poland, here is the link.
http://www.cytadela.pl/modules.php?n...ticle&sid=1766

Out of curiosity, who translated this?

...one or two details are off by a tiny bit - anyone wants me to try translating, too?...

The back section of those arks are fine, it's just the front part that makes me want to pretend they don't exist.

...what, notion of Necrons accepting new Spiritual Liege troubles you?

Con: It means we're less likely to get some of the more awesome possibilities.

Such as?

Pro: It's safe and means it's less likely that Ward has mutilated the fluff.

You mean, made it better?

[Cheesegear]

Right now, I have:
Pedro of the Crimson Fists (got him for $5 )
Landraider Crusader/Redeemer
Terminator Assault Squad
30 Tactical Marines (10 of which I'll convert to sternguard)
3 Rhinos
1 Predator

My goal is [...] 1500-1750 point army list. Any suggestions on where to go/what to get from here?

Pedro is actually my favourite character in the book. I've done plenty of lists concerning him. But, unfortunately my modelling standards are very high, and I want all my Sternguard to be super-special, and the thought of converting that many models makes me sad (I use Terminator Storm Bolter cartridges). I also thought about doing a Deathwatch army because they're awesome, and the rules for Sternguard are basically a reprint of Deathwatch rules.
I'm currently up to 14 Sternguard...

Anyway Hootman already provided a perfectly serviceable list. In fact, seems like you've got a 1500 point list as-is. Since Hootman has already told you everything for your current army...

Okay, Pedro. He's a fairly terrible character on his own. That's alright. Just remember to keep him out of combat. If a situation arises where you would need to Assault something with Pedro's unit, ask your opponent if they have anything in that unit that can cause Instant Death (Power Fists count), they should tell you if they aren't jerks. If there is, leave Pedro behind (remember, this has to be done in the Movement phase), or, use placement rules to keep Pedro far away from models with Force Weapons and Power Fists. Just because Pedro's weapon is 'Assault' and he has a Power Fist, doesn't mean he needs to go and get himself killed.
That's how you use Pedro. Now for the rest;

You've got Terminators, that's great. Stop with one unit. Point is, you want as many Sternguard as possible. Think about converting all the Tactical Marines to Sternguard. That's 30. That's how many Sternguard you want with Pedro. You can use the Sternguard as Tactical Squads until you get more Troops anyway. Anyway, Thunder Hammernators are great, and 20 Sternguard is good enough.

Now, opinion is divided on what you're supposed to do with Sternguard. Since Sternguard are now Scoring you don't really want to go and get them killed in the first turn. Some people say you should have anywhere between 4-8 Combi-Meltas, other people say it's a waste of time because the Sterngaurd - now Scoring - are actually sitting in your DZ for the whole game and wont use them, and should take Combi-Plasmas instead. Other people say that Pedro makes everyone a superman and they should be running forwards and contesting objectives like Foot-Vanguard. Due to the fact that Sternguard have access to Heavy Flamers and AP5 cover-ignoring ammo anyway, Combi-Flamers are generally laughed at.
Heavy Weapons; Heavy Flamer or Plasma Cannon/Lascannon. To suit.

Basically, playtest. Find out your meta-game. Due to the complicated nature of the unit, it's hard to tell what you need unless you're actually you in your meta-game.

If you're running 30 Sternguard, put one of the units in a Drop Pod. 8 Combi-Meltas and two Heavy Flamers. Hootman already explained the concept of Suicide Sternguard. I use it myself. I use it in every Codex Marine army I ever make. Except Pedro. Only do it if you've got Sternguard to spare.

Actual Troops...
You can use your Tactical Marines for now. It's fine. But, yeah. A Pedro army wants 20-30 Sternguard. I wont tell you otherwise. If you haven't yet put any of your models together yet, keep this in mind.

Now, if you're thinking 20/30 Sternguard and a unit of Hammernators is expensive (in points, that is), you're totally right! What you want to do, is fill two (maybe three, depending on Stern-count) slots with minimum Scouts, which offsets the expense of the Sternguard. Rifles for preference.

Fast Attack. Generally, you're not going to have points to spare for anything in this slot. But, very recently, I've noticed that a lot of people are taking at least one Land Speeder Storm. Since I've been playing Scouts for a few years I've been doing it the whole time. Anyway, yeah. You've got minimum squads of Scouts (don't you?), so, pick up a couple of Storms. If you do this, swap from Rifles to Shotguns. Think about giving the Sergeant(s) a Power Fist and/or Combi-Melta.

Predators and Devastators are good. You're probably going to want to pick up a few boxes of Devastators anyway to grab Plasma Cannons and Lascannons for your Sternguard (and some Power Fists!). So, it might be alright to make up a few Devastators, and you can use the Missile Launchers from your Tactical Sprues and put them here.
For Predators, you want Sponsons. For your current list, I'd suggest Lascannons. Sternguard shouldn't really need extra Heavy Bolter shots. Never upgrade the turret. Autocannon is fine.

Other than that. You've only got a second HQ slot left.
Librarian (Terminator with Storm Shield if possible). Goes with Suicide Sterngard. Null Zone and Force Dome/Avenger are my favourites. Always take Null Zone.
Lysander. Goes perfectly with Pedro and Sternguard.
Master of the Forge, put Drop Podding Ironclads in your Heavy Support slots. Your Elite slots are too valuable for Dreadnoughts.

Pick up a blister of Plasmaguns. Available on Mail Order. Get some Razorbacks (they cost the same as a Rhino in price and you get an extra sprue, there's no reason not to get them). Learn this conversion. The Assault Cannon isn't needed, and I'm sure you can find a suitable replacement part for that bit.

For your current Rhino, you can pick up a Terminus Ultra conversion kit and use that. Yeah, it's a little bit expensive for what it is. But it's cheaper than buying a whole tank. Remember, if you can't spare the points, a Razorback and Rhino are the same tank, just don't glue down the top hatch.

...Between Hootman's current list, and my future list, you're pretty much set. I think. I may have missed something.

Pics for the pics god, leaks for the leaks throne!

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...Huh...Looks like somebody at Nottingham has been watching Battlestar Galactica.

[crazedloon]

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truly ugly models and reminds me too much of these

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and that is from an abomination in its own right so these aint much better. Add onto that the fact that they would imply new less cool fluff

[Zorg]

Trixie, it was someone on Warseer.


Even more pics:

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[Ogremindes]

Trixie, it was someone on Warseer.


Even more pics:

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Hyperphase swords? Phase Blades aren't good enough any more?

[Trixie]

truly ugly models and reminds me too much of these

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...I wonder why no one pointed out 'Omega' shape of ribs on the barge and didn't made any Ultrajokes yet... :P

Add onto that the fact that they would imply new less cool fluff

Less cool how?

Trixie, it was someone on Warseer.

Ah.

I meant no offence, just wondering who translated 'folding chair' as 'throne'

Even more pics:

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I love these

But then again, I always liked such round collars in SciFi costumes? ^^"

Hyperphase swords? Phase Blades aren't good enough any more?

And shields. So, they probably have some kind of ++ save/different rules, I think...

[Tome]

Hyperphase swords? Phase Blades aren't good enough any more?

Ward is supposedly the one writing the codex. We're lucky they aren't called C'tan'na.

[Tychris1]

Ward is supposedly the one writing the codex. We're lucky they aren't called C'tan'na.

That's probably what the Deathbringer is going to wield now

[Zorg]

Less cool how?

If they're going for Tomb Kings in Spaaaaaaace then they're basically retreading the same ground with laser gauss guns instead of doing something new.


C'tan'a makes me think it'd be designed by Liefeld - tiny feet and pouches everywhere. Painting is easy - just block colour and lines all over the place.

Ah.

I meant no offence, just wondering who translated 'folding chair' as 'throne'

I'm wondering how it could be described as a folding chair Looks way more like a paddleboat to me - the lords got a staff so he can jab the guys in the front when they need to peddle faster

Couple more pics:

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[Etcetera]

I'm wondering how it could be described as a folding chair Looks way more like a paddleboat to me - the lords got a staff so he can jab the guys in the front when they need to peddle faster

A rowboat, you say?
notmyjoke

[Zorg]

No, one of these:



Now all I can think of is those Necrons getting attacked by a swan

[Trixie]

...I think he meant 'rowboat girlyman' meme...

[DaedalusMkV]

...I think he meant 'rowboat girlyman' meme...

Why would you think that? I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to be attacked by an army of soulless, gauss flayer-toting rowboats, do you?

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Yeeah. Might be too much Corner Gas watching on my part, but as soon as anyone says 'rowboat', I immediately think of robots. Heh.

[Zorg]

That's the problem with homonym based puns on the internet...


Overall I'm not too impressed with the new Necrons. I mean they're nice and all, but the Tomb Kings / Egyptian influence is too strong for me. I'm witholding final judgement until I see the codex and read the background.

Massive rules rumour dump (bring yer salt):

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via MadcowCrazy
Necrons
Author : Mat Ward for the bulk of the codex, but two others were involved before him.

Release Schedule
Wave 1: Immortals, Tomb Spiders, Destroyers (parts are new), Necromancer (Rumoured MC?)
Wave 2: Wraiths, Repackaged Warriors (now 10 with extra coloured rods), whatever else.
6 new Vehicles in the army

Rules
Reanimation: - An updated variant of We'll Be Back. Models with this rule who were killed last turn roll a d6 at the end of each phase, regardless of what caused the wound (thunder hammer, etc...); standing back up on a 5+. Res Orbs makes this a 4+ roll if within 6".

Eternal Life: - for ICs, this grants a Reanimation roll after the model loses its last wound. If successful, the IC stands back up with 1 wound and, if within 1"of enemy models is placed in assault with them.

Living Metal: - Crew Shaken results are ignored on a 2+, Crew Stunned results are ignored on a 4+. All other current codex benefits are removed.

Gauss Weapons: - Armor penetration rolls of 6 auto-glance, to-wound rolls of 6 auto wound.

Many Psychic Powers listed as "Tech Upgrades"
Phase out is reworked
Complicated rules from the codex are getting simplified and a lot of the war gear options are vanishing

Wargear
Necrons will have their magic power guy, tech upgrades instead of psychic powers most likely

Veil of Darkness: no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat, except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords

Quantum Shielding: Gives open topped skimmers 2+ save for front & side armour until vehicle takes it's first glance/pen

Weapons
Heat Ray: Melta or Flamer depending on which is needed.
Gauss: Glance on to hit rolls of 6
Gauss Cannon: Assault 2 S6 AP3.
Gauss Flux Arc: Each Arc fires separately and can hit four different targets.
Tesla: Causes 2 more hits on to hit rolls of 6
Tesla Heavy Cannon: Chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe.
Doomsday Cannon: 72" S9 AP1 Heavy1 Large Blast.


Named Lords
The Enfleshed - making Flayed Ones Troops Said to be 100% confirmed
The Undying - making Immortals Troops
The Silent King ?
The Voidbringer ?
The Stormcaller ?

HQ
C’tan are gone, and are replaced with powerful named Necron lords and special characters.
One of the Lords makes Immortals troops
Another Special Character has some really nice anti psyker abilities
While the Ctan are themselves out of the codex their influence is still in place.
One of the lords was like 240 points or somewhere around there. He looks like he has potential to be beastly in CC though.
A lord that makes flayed ones troops

Crypteks
Similar to Haemonculi?
Can take Veil of Darkness

Pariahs
Overhaul into Lord retinue (second wave)
Many variants of pariahs : one with weapons who kills life...

Troops
Warriors
Cost: 12pts
Statline: 4/4/4/4/1/2/1/10/4+
Will come 10 to a box
New options and also other colors of rod (orange and red I think? Orange is not bright orange, but sort of dark, kinda like a beer color almost)
Warriors are not changing, but doesn't preclude a new weapon/option sprue.
Otherwise look the same.

Immortals
Cost: 17pts
Statline: 4/4/4/4/1/2/1/10/3+
Redone, in plastic? Unsure of the material.
Lots of "Bling"
Bigger than old ones
One of the Special Character ‘Cron lords makes them troops
Will come in boxes of 5, can be in units of up to 10.
Large (35mm) base; they are redesigned as larger, bulkier and more dynamic (plastic kit)
2 Variants of equipment for the immortals,
Sniper teams immortal

Elites, 6 Choices
C'Tan
Monstrous Creature
Can take 1 per Elite slot
Good in CC
Can purchase a bunch of different abilities: in line with things like messing with Deep Striking enemy units, making enemies move through terrain differently, allowing Necron player to change some of his deployment.
Can take item that erodes armour

Flayed Ones
Statline: 4/4/4/4/1/2/3/10/4+
Redone, unsure of the material.
Fail cast flayers all ugly. (Redone in "Finecast" it seems.

Walker

Lyche Guard
S5 T5 3+
Can take Warscythe

New unit 2
Sniper style unit
Deep Strike as normal or can choose to immediately Deep Strike after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves
Can nominate a unit to take additional damage

New unit 3
S5 T5 3+
Jump Infantry
Very close range shooting and some decent CC ability

Fast Attack, 4 Choices
Wraiths
Rules: Fearless
Are "harsh" now
Jump Infantry 18" charge

Scarab Swarms
Cost: 12pt
Rules: Fearless
Move like Beasts
Entropic Effect: Ability to erode enemy armour in CC, any non-vehicle unit they wound, but dont kill, has its armour save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game.
If they hit a vehicle, on 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armour value on ALL facings, if any facing is reduced to zero the vehicle is destroyed (not sure if for each reduce armour value or only once per unit per phase)

Destroyers
-See heavy for combined rumours

Tomb Blades (jetbikes)
This rumour might be for the Elite jump infantry?

New fast attack unit
Look kinda like flayed ones
They have an 18” charge with their special ability
Think jump infantry with special rules
5 per box


Heavy Support
Monolith
Remain expensive

Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers
Redone in plastic.
Like the old hybrid kits, but in plastic with fancier torso’s.
The skimmer body things don’t look much changed.
Option for a lawn mower (lown mower as in a gun that has alot of shots, to mow throw hordes) type weapon too if you want to deal with hordes, 1 per box.

Tomb spider
Rules: Fearless
3 different builds
Will have several options and be able to fulfil a variety of roles in the army.
Spyders redone in plastic.
1 per box.

New MC/Vehicle
Can throw down some long range hurt but is still underwhelming compared to things like the Manticore 48” range
1 per box

Necromancer
Resurrection (the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit = Ability for this unit?)
Warscythe
Gauss "something"
Plastic kit

Sky Barge/Chariot
Plastic kit
Fast Skimmer
Armor 11-11-10
Living metal
36" move
two kinds of weapons
Strength 10 AP 1 12 inch range
Strenth 7 AP -, can hit multiple targets
2 Kits which are support vehicle / troop carrier, one of which will be a mix between a machine of The Phantom Menace / the old DEldar's raider / a boat of the Egyptian antiquity.

New giant MC
Ranged or Melee options
Wraith Lord feel all around
One of the guns looks similar to the new gun the destroyer guys are getting which works well against hordes.
He has a lot of weapon options
1 per box.


-


via Yakface
The same quality source who provided me with the previous Necron rumors had this to say about this latest rumor:

This rumor is off. It applies only to a hand-to-hand close combat ability possessed by a named Necron character.

This rule applies ONLY to the units the special Necron character is engaged with (it doesn't affect every model in the enemy army of the same type).

It happens after the Necron character has killed someone in combat and after all blows have been struck on both sides.

Roll a D6 for every type of model (friend or enemy) that the special character killed that turn. On a 4+ all other models in combat of that type take a wound (armor/inv saves can be taken as normal).

Example: If the Necron character kills an Ork Slugga boy in close combat and got the 4+ roll, all other Slugga boyz in the same combat would take a wound, but NOT the nob (as he's a different type of model). Any Shoota boyz, for example, in the same combat would be unaffected as well. If he killed a marine and got the roll, all other marines would take a wound, but not the vet sgt, etc.

It would seem that if this Necron was fighting against another Necron player, then he has the potential to hurt his own forces if the same type of units were facing off; if he was attached to a unit of warriors that was fighting against an enemy unit of warriors, for example.


via Yakface
I have gotten my hands on some fairly solid Necron rumors. I say they are fairly solid because the source I got them from has proved reliable in the past, however the rumors themselves are indeed 2nd hand (I didn't see the codex myself), and therefore I can't personally verify any of this. That also means if you have any more questions on anything I (probably) won't be able to provide you with any more details (as I don't have them).

Anyway here goes:
1) No surprise here, but Necrons are still essentially Tomb Kings in space fluff wise. A shift in fluff is now that all of the higher up necrons are intelligent while the lower level ones are still basically automatons. I guess that's roughly the same as it used to be, but apparently there is more emphasis in the sentience of the higher Necrons now (hence the named Lords).

2) C'Tan are still in the codex...sort of. They have been moved to the Elites section and are now a single unit choice, but with variable upgrade powers you can take.

3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.

4) Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but apparently otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6). The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets.

5) Phase out is gone.

6) Destroyers now count as jump infantry and there is a new Fast Attack Jetbike unit called Tomb Blades.

7) Immortals are now a Troops choice. Pariahs are gone. Flayed Ones are Elites.

8) There are indeed 6 named characters (although I have no more info on them). There is also a Necron Overlord and a bodyguard unit called Crypteks. Crypteks can be split off before the game to lead units of Necrons, very similar to Wolf Guard in the Space Wolves codex. Crypteks can take a bunch of different technology upgrades, so there is kind of a way now to have personalized squad leaders in a Necron army.

9) They army is much more mobile now in general. They have several units of jump troops, and 2 new transport vehicles. 1 transport can carry 15 necrons while another can carry 10. Jump pack units count as 2 models and jetbikes count as 5. The one that holds 10 is able to recover casualties to a unit (although can't take it beyond its starting strength). Necron vehicles besides the monolith are open-topped skimmers. However they have something called 'Quantum shielding' which gives their front & side armor +2 until the vehicle takes its first glance/pen, at which point it loses the shielding. One of these two transports (not sure which one) is apparently a personal transport for the Lord (and his retinue).

10) There are six new vehicles in the codex (including the two transports mentioned above). Two of which seem to be based around this old Jes Goodwin design

11) In general Necrons have a lot more long ranged fire support. There is also a new weapon type called Tesla weapons. These weapons, on a roll of '6' to hit automatically cause two more hits. The biggest version of the Tesla weapons has a chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe. One of the new vehicles carries the doomsday cannon: 72" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 large blast. BS4.

12) In the Elites section there is a big new walker. It has a heat ray that that is either a melta or flamer depending on what you want to do. Any unit hit by this vehicle is marked (as in: laser targeted), which means that all other necrons count as being twin-linked for shooting at the marked enemy unit that turn.

Okay continuing on here with some nice stuff (added 5/5):

13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.

I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).

So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).

14) Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model, which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)!

15) All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex (even Scarabs!). So although you're only getting a 5+ save in many cases, you're still getting it on some of the more expensive stuff in the army as well (and there are some pricey new units to counterbalance the relatively cheap Warriors and Immortals). Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.

15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save if you want to pay the points to take them for your Crypteks and then split those Crypteks off to lead units.

16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.

17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power. They're naturally still a really mean Monstrous Creature who rocks in combat, but you can also purchase a bunch of different abilities. These abilities are in line with a lot of the things we've seen in the last few codexes, things like: messing around with Deep Striking enemy units, making enemies moving through terrain differently, and allowing the Necron player to change some of his deployment, etc. So it sounds like you have a lot of different options with the C'Tan that really mess with the enemy army and/or supplement your own. And they are not one per army (so you can have 3 if you want to use up all your Elites on them, although it sounds like the other Elites choices are pretty awesome as well).

18) Some of those six new vehicles include flyers (not sure how many), which can move at cruising speed and fire all their weapons.

19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.

20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Any non-vehicle model they wound, but don't kill, has its armor save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game. If they hit a vehicle, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor value on ALL facings, and if any facing is reduced to zero, then the vehicle is destroyed (I'm not sure if this ability kicks in for each hit they get on the vehicle, or just once no matter how many hits they cause). There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.

So it sounds like Scarabs may play a major role in most Necron armies!

21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take. But they also have some different potential counter-assault units, which mainly come out of the Elites section (besides the new Walker, the C'Tan and the flayed ones in Elites there are 3 OTHER brand new units in there as well, for a grand total of 6 Elites choices). The Flayed ones are, being consistent, cheaper than they were and now have 3 Attacks base (but their save is now 4+ as with standard Warriors). One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).

Another new Elites choice is a sniper style unit that can Deep Strike into play normally or it can choose to immediately Deep Strike immediately after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves, and they have some nasty additional damage ability against one nominated unit...obviously we need more info to know how useful this will really be, but the concept of countering an opponent's Reserve deployment immediately sounds interesting at least.

The last new Elites choice is an Elite Jump Infantry unit with very close range shooting and some decent CC ability (and are also S5/T5/3+save).

22) Fast Attack has 4 choices...Wraiths, Tomb Blades (jetbikes), Scarabs & Destroyers.

And that's it! Kind of all over the place and certainly not a full snapshot of the codex, but a lot of these things are completely opposite from many of the other rumors I've seen out there.


via Yakface
Here's a bit more detail on the Lychguard & Praetorians:

Lychguard: S5 T5 A2 3+ save. Warscythes (2h +2 str power weapon) or A +4 inv. shield and power weapon. Shield can bounce saved shots back at any enemy if they are within 6". 40pts each.

Praetorians: S5 T5 jump infantry. 3+ save. Have a 6" shot S5 AP2 Assault 1 power weapon staff or 2 rending swords and a 3+ inv. 40 pts each.


via stickmonkey
Preorders for Necrons go up week of Oct. 23rd. You will be disappointed that some models only get converted to finecast. You will be happy with "new" old models. Big Necron model is more impressive than I thought, visually. Hope it has rules to back it up.


via Heinrich Kemmler
Warriors and immortals are troops.
- save 4+ for the warriors

- 2 Variants of equipment for the immortals,

- sniper teams immortal

- Many variants of pariahs with weapons that kill the mother of all deaths

- 2 Kits which are support vehicle / troop carrier, one of which will be a mix between a machine of The Phantom Menace / the old DEldar's raider / a boat of the Egyptian antiquity.

- fail cast flayers all ugly.

[Timberwolf]

A little blast from the past for those of sufficient vintage.

I am very proud of my conversion of Moriar the Chosen. I'd say it's tied with my blue and white Stormraven as my favourite model. I took him out for the first time under his proper (3rd ed) rules instead of just using him as a talon Death Company Dread like I normally would. My opponent was fine with it, as he's not got a few things the modern DCD has

Good grief. He's unstoppable short of an immobilised roll or outright destruction. He tore up an Ironclad (hah, now I have S10 2d6 penetration too and I GO FIRST WITH A BOATLOAD MORE ATTACKS IF I CHARGE, wheeeeeee !), a Librarian and Hammernator squad (What is this "stunned" you speak of ? although he was ably supported by my own librarian and the remains of my Death Company on this one) and a tactical squad. The only thing that stopped him adding a land raider to the list was running out of time and people standing watching looking at their watches because they wanted to close up. He lost an arm, well, what does this matter to a crazed pillaging machine like Moriar ? 1 + D6 attacks is quite sufficient thank you, no need for the 2 DCCW bonus attack.

Codex power creep ? Well, maybe, but I do know that it is far easier to shut down a Talon dreadnought's much raged about special ability (after all, you need 2 arms to get those extra attacks) than it is to prevent Moriar, if the dice are with you, from having a truly obscene number of attacks at obscene strength with obscene armour penetration.

[Zorg]

I'm sticking this here rather than the background thread as it's rumours.


Necron background rumours:

Spoiler

Show

Originally Posted by Yakface
Okay, with the book's release date rapidly approaching, let's pull back the curtain on the codex a bit. First off some (rather important) background notes:


There is a dramatic change in the fluff in this codex from the previous incarnation of the Necrons. The Necrontyr's empire was massive at one point, but the different Lords in the empire started to turn against each other in civil war. To prevent this from happening the overall ruler of the Necrons (the Silent King) started the war against the Old Ones specifically to give them a common enemy to fight against to prevent his empire from destroying itself. Of course, the Old Ones ended up kicking their butts and in desperation, the Silent King found the C'Tan and agreed to the Deceiver's pact without realizing what he was doing. However, after the Necrons helped the C'Tan to kill off the last Old Ones, the Silent King then ordered the Necrons to turn on the C'Tan in vengeance and utterly destroyed the C'Tan into tiny shards. This war agains the C'Tan weakened the Necrons overall so much they decided to go into stasis to avoid the vengeance of the Eldar (the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, but not all their children).

Now that the Necrons have reawakened in the 41st millennium, their goal is no longer to 'harvest' souls for the C'Tan (the C'Tan shards are now their slaves) as it was in the old book, but rather to reestablish the great Necron empire that spanned the galaxy before the war with the Old Ones began. However, the overall hierarchy of the Necron people is gone for the most part, leaving each individual Empire to once again rule for itself. This means each Tomb World (or cluster of Necron worlds) is essentially a separate little empire to itself, with a full backstory and idiosyncrasies. While Necron warriors are pretty much just automatons and Immortals not too much better, every other higher Necron being is now much more like an actual person, as their essence is simply trapped inside a metal body.

So there is lots of crazy nuance to Necron culture that was never present before. The codex now has plenty of 'quote' boxes featuring memorable quotes from Necron Lords like other races have in their books. There are some Necron Lords who honor valor in battle, there are a few Necron Lords who trade with other races, and although an uneasy alliance apparently, yes Necrons and Blood Angels did end up fighting against a Tyranid Hive Fleet together. Oh, and there is definitely plenty of reason to have Necron vs. Necron action now (as the old feuds between competing Necron Lords flare back up again).

All in all, it is a major tonal shift. While part of me recoils from it, the other part of me thinks that Necrons as they were had no distinct 'character' that each player could choose to get behind. Yes, the race as a whole had 'character' in how it was organized and functioned, but there was never any really good reason that a player should have his Necron force painted and modeled 'X' way as opposed to another player with his Necron army looking 'Y' way. People certainly painted their Necrons in different (neat) ways, but there was never really any good fluff giving players inspiration to do so.

The only real 'personality' in the old book was the Deceiver, and that frankly wasn't the Necrons, it was their god. The mindless mission that all Necrons were on was basically really similar to Tyranids...the Necrons were coming to harvest every living thing in the galaxy (yawn).

This new incarnation, love it or hate it, gives the Necrons a whole wide array of personality and every single empire has different goals and motives (not to mention paint schemes, markings, etc). Some Necron Lords are obsessed with finding the perfect flesh bodies to transfer their sentience back into. One Necron Tomb World was damaged during the great sleep and erased all the Necron sentience and has started basically commanding its Necrons like true robots (and is actively attacking other Necron worlds to take them over and keep growing), and there are of course dozens more little stories. The Silent King, who put himself into exile (for his unforgivable crime against his people) by leaving the galaxy after defeating the C'Tan encountered the Tyranids in the void between galaxies and has returned to spur the Necrons into action against the Tyranids (realizing that if the Tyranids wipe the galaxy clean of biological matter, then the Necrons will never find a form to transfer their minds back into).

Oh, and the biggest rival of the Necrons is now actually the Altaoic (sp?) Craftworld. Apparently they are the only Eldar who stayed true on the original path to seek out and destroy Necron Tomb Worlds while the rest of the Eldar got all caught up and destroyed in their decadence and then the Fall. Altaoic rangers have traveled the galaxy far and wide over the millennia (ever since the Necrons went to sleep) to track down and destroy or hamper Tomb Worlds from reawakening.

So with this new direction there is now tons of different possibilities for players to make Necrons forces different from each other and there are neat new takes on 'nemesis' races like Eldar & Tyranids to drive gaming plots as well as good reason for Necron on Necron battles.

And as for totally destroying the background of the C'Tan, the codex does allude to the fact that there are lots of unaccounted for C'Tan shards still allegedly cast around the galaxy. The Necron are always trying to hunt them down and imprison them (in pocket dimension prisons), but this does still leave the door totally wide open for a shard of 'The Dragon' to be on Mars and for shards of 'The Deceiver' to have done all the crazy things that's been written about him in novels. Essentially, the full power C'Tan were massively, massively powerful, and the 'shard' versions of them are closer to the idea of what we had in the last codex anyway (something that can be killed/banished on a battlefield).

So while it is a little shocking to have such a massive fluff change hit, I do think it is probably the right way forward to create a more fully realized faction. But I do think it is probably going to be a massive turn-off to those players who absolutely adored the old fluff for the army.

Short version: They're Tomb Kings in space.

[Borgh]

Is it still the old "yup, the galaxy is DOOOOMED"or arethey just another bunch of xenos now?

[Timberwolf]

Speaking personally, tomb kings in space or not, I actually welcome our new Egyptian / robot fluff overlord if this is true. (as always, my salt shaker is working overtime.)

I feel the old book was entirely lacking in personality and, while this is fitting for zombie robots, it's not particularly great for making your Necrons your own like you can with everyone else, especially Orks. I do think that this'll be good for the hobby side of things and will hopefully result in more people playing what is a minor faction in the grand scheme of number of people playing worldwide. ok, what's described here is a bit uninspired compared with the rest of the fantasy analogue races (I know Orcs are largely the same as Orks, but there's not much you can do there and 40k Orks are a delightfully bonkers extrapolation of the classic Orc if they are given a few millenia worth of new tech). but it's new and a has a lot more room to do what every other faction can do, make your army yours.

[Etcetera]

I think I'm broadly positive about the new fluff. As other have said it gives Crons more individuality, and it stops them from being just another apocalyptic force that will eventually destroy everything.

[Gryffon]

I love the idea of Tomb Kings in SPAAAAACE. I can use all the same paints that I use for Fantasy!